NY Times Confirms Verizon iPhone for Next Year

[SandynJosh]

I think it's timely that Apple puts the iPhone on Verizon. If not the only choice Verizon customers would have to the Android would be Microsoft's new Zucky Zune 7OS phones.

Can't let Verizon's users fall to the dark side.

 

[Geckotek]

Not happening because of their shift to LTE.

Sorry, one has nothing to do witht the other. If Verizon rolls out an iPhone and Apple can't get a chip thats efficient/small enough, then Verizon will roll out VoRA or SVDO. And Apple's history shows they are likely to stick with the stable technology over the latest cutting edge option. Esp. if the chips power consumption is too high.

My Verizon source told me about a year ago that Verizon was turning on LTE at the end of this year. They also will have RIM and Android phones capable of running on CDMA/LTE at launch and their add campaign for Christmas is a direct attack on Apple and AT&T. They also will launch a direct attack on the superslow speed of the iPad when their tablet launches early next year featuring full LTE access for a lower price than the iPad 3G.

Verizon has set everything up to attack both Apple and AT&T. I have heard nothing of a Verizon iPhone because Apple has never wanted to meet Verizon's terms. If Apple goes to Verizon it will be because the iPhone will get branded by Verizon like they do with all their phones. They also will get treated liked any other manufacturer. There will be no kickbacks or sharing of monthly fees.

In short, if Apple does end up on Verizon it will be because Steve Jobs personally begged Verizon to help him off the sinking ship that is AT&T. AT&T is way behind Verizon on LTE and Jobs and Apple know full well that tech geeks will flock to Android and Verizon when they offer upgrades in internet connectivity speed.

If Verizon has Android phones on LTE for much of the country (rolling out to over 100 million people in November) and Blackberries doing the same and even possibly a new Windows Phone 7 LTE handset (that one's iffy), how many people want to wait 18 months for AT&T to offer even similar access? And in those 18 months Verizon's whole network will go LTE/CDMA legacy.

This is Verizon's endgame. They've invested in network infrastructure and made sure they'd do a LTE rollout before anyone else. Apple didn't want to play by their rules at the beginning and Verizon was focused on their network.

I don't see a LTE iPhone though, because apparently the CDMA/LTE chips are spoken for by HTC, Motorola, and RIM. Apple will have to launch CDMA only to start and pray people will buy it and then give them more money when they can finally make a LTE handset. The iPhone won't die, but Google was in on this with Verizon. Both decided this would be a great way to get Android way past the iPhone and RIM also has been hopeful it will stem the tide as well and keep them at #1 or #2.

The iPhone may end up being MySpace. Remember how huge it was a few years ago? That could be why Apple is making a CDMA iPhone, just hoping that Verizon will feel charitable. But Verizon is in control here and they're going to be bludgeoning AT&T and Apple over the next year.

Spoken like someone that works for Verizon. I hate to tell you, but Verizon doesn't have THAT strong of an upper hand. Both sides have plenty to barter with, but I know that branding and image are everything to Apple. One thing we won't see, and I'd stake my paycheck on, is an iPhone with a Verizon logo. I agree that it's important that Apple expand to Verizon, but I think they'd go Sprint and/or T-Mobile before allowing the iPhone image to be tarnished with a logo other than their own. Verizon knows this and they will accept it.

Also, when LTE is initially rolled out, it won't be so fast that everyone is flocking to it. The average customer won't even care. It will be a couple of years before LTE gets "up to speed".

Funny. And clueless.

Hahahaha...agreed.

Just an FYI

All first gen vzw LTE phones will have am LTE chipset for data and a CDMA chipset for voice. Voice and data won't go LTE until nationwide coverage is a reality. Rumors of CDMA iPhone don't rule out LTE.

Yes, I'm aware of this. However, looking at a) the reports and b) Apple's history, it's very possible that the LTE chipsets won't be mature enough or small enough for the iPhone. Looking at the original iPhone, Apple chose Edge over 3G because the 3G chips weren't efficient enough yet.

 

[darthraige]

How can the news confirm something before the actual company announces it? Suppose something sets it back again?

 

[StackUnderflow]

A CDMA only iphone on Verizon would be a bit of a let down considering LTE is rolling out this fall (2010). I'm in the camp that would be surprised to see Apple/V go the CDMA only route.

cheers to the longs
JohnG

It certainly would be a let down, but it's also Apple's M.O.: announce the iPhone4 for the Verizon (and if I understand the alleged announcement, it refers specifically to the iPhone4) and then 6 to 12 months down the road offer an iPhoneLTE for another 24 month commitment and another $199 to $299, depending on flash memory size.

 

[StackUnderflow]

DisplayPort supports HDCP, as do most decent DP-HDMI adpaters (like the one from monoprice).

You do realize btw that HDMI is just DVI + sound and an aux channel in an easy to connect cable, right? And that HDCP is an encryption/enforcement layer that can be used on mulriple types of hardware layers, not just HDMI/DVI?

DisplayPort is the replacement for DVI on computers, includes all the advantages of HDMI plus it supports a number of things HDMI doesn't, including simplifying wiring internally in machines with built in displays (like most of Apple's).

Looking at Apple's specs for the latest 27" imac, I see that it is a 2 way display port and should support both HDCP and DPCP - though no mention of either is mentioned in the Apple tech specs (and anything Apple doesn't specifically mention in the tech specs usually isn't there (remember voice command and the original iPhone?)). Personally, I have not been able to take an iTunes HD movie playing on my iMac and display it on my HD TV, no matter what adapter I use - I get a green screen, usually indicative of an HDCP problem. Perhaps because I still have an iMac 6,1. I would love to upgrade to the big 27 inch iMac and give it a shot, but there is still no BD-RW drive available for it, and Jobs recently said not to expect one anytime soon... bummer.

Checking wikipedia out about displayport and minidisplayport, it doesn't seem like a lot of companies are jumping on the bandwagon.

 

[MorphingDragon]

Checking wikipedia out about displayport and minidisplayport, it doesn't seem like a lot of companies are jumping on the bandwagon.

Displayport has/is replaced/replacing HDMI on high end computing equipment.
http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=13027
http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=10905
http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=11176
http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=12516

You can even find display port on mid-stream products
http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=11762
http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=12638

Displayport in highend Lenovo
http://shopap.lenovo.com/SEUILibrar...-category-id=5D99C286F7E04D23B77738FA035A5FBF
http://shopap.lenovo.com/SEUILibrar...-category-id=A4D707910C114E928C230808E4DDA0F8
http://shopap.lenovo.com/SEUILibrar...category-id=6B705CA322AC4DC9BA438330B16F57E7#

HP Envy has display port
http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=11757

And of course Apple products.

The funny thing about that is, is that DisplayPort has made HDMI an entry-grade product.

 

[angryshortguy]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/7E18)

Wait a minute,
I thought there was a 80% chance it was coming to T-Mobile!
My bad. That was from an older rumor.
What's the line on this one?
I'd love to see some accountability on these so called journalists guessing.

 

[ryanasimov]

CDMA battery life

I've had GSM and CDMA phones, and the GSM phones always had better battery life. For example, I had 2 BlackBerry Curves and the GSM version could go a whole day longer on a single charge.
Does CDMA inherently use more battery? All things being equal, would a CDMA iPhone have less battery life than a GSM iPhone?

 

[zgall]

I'm so sick of people complaining about AT&T's service and what not garbage. I personally have had no problems with it, I think it's even better then Verizon's outrageous priced contracts and extra fees they add. Verizon will never be an iPhone carrier and they do not deserve it.

 

[bergmef]

I'm so sick of people complaining about AT&T's service and what not garbage. I personally have had no problems with it, I think it's even better then Verizon's outrageous priced contracts and extra fees they add. Verizon will never be an iPhone carrier and they do not deserve it.

I can't speak for anyone else but I live in an ATT bad spot. That's why I use verizon. Cell providers are good in some areas and not so good in others. You pick what's best for your area. I'm glad you have good coverage where you live and work. That's cool. Maybe a little competition for ATT will will force all carriers to provide better service in their bad areas. That's what I'm hoping for. Not sure why you say they don't deserve it.

 

[SAD*FACED*CLOWN]

just because Apple made the first iPhone Edge only does not mean they will make a CDMA only iPhone for Verizon...the first iPhone was Edge only because 3G was NOT availiable in enough markets at the time on AT&T...

oh and to the person who obviously does not understand the concept

false advertising is the use of false, misleading or deceptive statements in advertising...

referring to one's product as a "misfit toy" is not false advertising...so if AT&T were to attack Verizon's supposed iPhone's lack of simultaneous voice and data in a similar fashion it would be completely legal

 

[Geckotek]

I'm so sick of people complaining about AT&T's service and what not garbage. I personally have had no problems with it, I think it's even better then Verizon's outrageous priced contracts and extra fees they add. Verizon will never be an iPhone carrier and they do not deserve it.

And I'm sick of people that ignore the fact that wireless coverage is not equal in all parts of the nation.

AT&T and Verizon prices are almost identical.

just because Apple made the first iPhone Edge only does not mean they will make a CDMA only iPhone for Verizon...

True, but it is a precedent worth paying attention to.

the first iPhone was Edge only because 3G was NOT availiable in enough markets at the time on AT&T...

Much like LTE will be if a Verizon iPhone is released in Q1 2011.

oh and to the person who obviously does not understand the concept

false advertising is the use of false, misleading or deceptive statements in advertising...

referring to one's product as a "misfit toy" is not false advertising...so if AT&T were to attack Verizon's supposed iPhone's lack of simultaneous voice and data in a similar fashion it would be completely legal

Unless Verizon releases the iPhone with VoRA or SVDO support. Then it would be false. Just sayin...

 

[SpaceKitty]

Does anyone know if the iPhone will still be available on AT&T after this?

I hope so. I hope I don't have to switch over to Verizon in order to get next years iPhone. I think Apple would be smart to offer two carrier choices.

 

[Geckotek]

Does anyone know if the iPhone will still be available on AT&T after this?

I hope so. I hope I don't have to switch over to Verizon in order to get next years iPhone. I think Apple would be smart to offer two carrier choices.

There is no indication that Apple would leave AT&T.

 

[kdarling]

just because Apple made the first iPhone Edge only does not mean they will make a CDMA only iPhone for Verizon...the first iPhone was Edge only because 3G was NOT availiable in enough markets at the time on AT&T...

True. Unfortunately that limitation was a mistake for the world markets it was later released in. For example, the UK had long moved onto UMTS-3G, and only had what, about 20% EDGE coverage?

Which also points out the whole fallacy of claims that Apple "chose GSM" because of world compatability. They made a GSM model first because the only USA carrier they had a deal with at first was AT&T. If Verizon had also made a deal, there would've been two models from the start... or a single dual mode model. (And no doubt would've had 3G to start, since Verizon only had 3G smartphones back then.)

Does anyone know if the iPhone will still be available on AT&T after this?

Yes. They'd just be adding another carrier, is all. So it makes no sense that anyone would be against it.

 

[gluggantor]

Just read through this entire thread; there are some interesting perspectives on this board, and I say that as someone who likes and uses Apple's products. For me, a phone is just an appliance that I use to make/take voice calls and screen those calls with caller ID. I had no idea that folks could be so emotional about it, because I don't care at all about my "dumb phone." It would be like being really dedicated to a particular model of toaster. Still, the increasing dependence on Internet access has me thinking about getting a smartphone, and the iPhone looks like a good choice (I already have an IPT as well as the dumb mobile phone). I like VZW's coverage (AT&T is notoriously bad here), and would probably be happy with a Verizon iPhone, but if it doesn't happen, I'm pretty sure there's an Android product that gets the job done too. I really don't see the point in arguing so passionately about any of this, but then again, I just see my car as a 4-wheeled box that gets me from Point A to Point B. Keep on speculating...

 

[Geckotek]

Just read through this entire thread; there are some interesting perspectives on this board, and I say that as someone who likes and uses Apple's products. For me, a phone is just an appliance that I use to make/take voice calls and screen those calls with caller ID. I had no idea that folks could be so emotional about it, because I don't care at all about my "dumb phone." It would be like being really dedicated to a particular model of toaster. Still, the increasing dependence on Internet access has me thinking about getting a smartphone, and the iPhone looks like a good choice (I already have an IPT as well as the dumb mobile phone). I like VZW's coverage (AT&T is notoriously bad here), and would probably be happy with a Verizon iPhone, but if it doesn't happen, I'm pretty sure there's an Android product that gets the job done too. I really don't see the point in arguing so passionately about any of this, but then again, I just see my car as a 4-wheeled box that gets me from Point A to Point B. Keep on speculating...

Well, not a toaster, but you should read some of the debates about the best coffee makers and grinders in some of the coffee forums.

People get passionate about different things. I'm sure there's something in life you are passionate about that others find a bit odd.

 

[deconstruct60]

Sorry, one has nothing to do witht the other. If Verizon rolls out an iPhone and Apple can't get a chip thats efficient/small enough, then Verizon will roll out VoRA or SVDO.

While SVDO could work when has Verizon or Sprint ( or any other major service vendor elsewhere ) committed to rolling out a SVDO network.

Verizon is spending millions rolling out LTE. Thehttps://forums.macrumors.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=11206891&y have paid billions to lease new frequencies to run this on. Sure, they could spend even more millions on SVDO but will they? Even large vendors like ATT and Verizon can only really do one primarily rollout at the same time.

if SVDO is a pure tower software upgrade perhaps. If there is any hardware (if only to run the additional software ) that is a problem. However, I don't think the really solves the problem. EV-DO is already slower than UTMS. Can bond multiple DO channels to try to increase that but you are only amplifing the crowded cell problem where it occurs. Mixing voice and data traffic is only going to make for slow data and more spotting voice traffice if only have a slower base data bandwidth rate to work with. It AT&T's network is swamped on a regular basis in high density areas .... how would Verizon's SVDO network would not be ?

SVDO seems like a sure fire way to solidify iPhone's reputation as 'good phone on a bad/annoying network'. I suppose Apple might be OK with that.

 

[kdarling]

While SVDO could work when has Verizon or Sprint ( or any other major service vendor elsewhere ) committed to rolling out a SVDO network.

No network change is needed for SVDO.

It's purely a device-side modification.

(At the most basic implementation, the device would use separate radios for voice and data. I believe some chips are sampling already for this.

Voice and data stay on different channels with different dedicated backhaul, so SVDO would not suffer from the kind of voice call drops that UMTS-3G can have.)

 

[deconstruct60]

it's possible that Apple could sweeten the pot somehow...maybe exclusivity ends 6 months early and AT&T gets 3 additional years of iPad exclusivity. Or something.

Or something. There is absolutely zero indication there there is any need at all for exclusivity contract for iPads. AT&T gets defacto exclusivity because Apple only uses the 3G radios compatible with AT&T in the iPad.
The iPad is contract free and unlocked. How can have an exclusive device and no contract or locking ?

This also points out why AT&T defacto doesn't really need an exclusivity agreement with Apple as long as Apple refuses to ship a model that doesn't have the "lowest common denominator" radio coverage inside. As long as Apple sticks with that AT&T is really the only major carrier answer in the US. So Apple could pull "exclusiveness" out of an update with AT&T and it wouldn't really matter much to AT&T. If Apple is going to always remain fixated on AT&T's radio selections there is no need for a contract to lock them in.

If ATT is betting nobody can deploy LTE widespread before 2012 then they don't loose much. Apple either won't because it "too technically risky/hard" for them or because didn't perceive demand. What would benefit ATT more than lock-in would be a cheaper price for iPhones than competitors. that will put more money in their pocket.

 

[deconstruct60]

No network change is needed for SVDO.
It's purely a device-side modification.

hard to believe since tower would have to know has two channels per device. There are likely some software updates required to run two concurrent channels. Perhaps not enough to require new hardware... but updates. As long as have to go deploy ,test , and validate those updates... it costs substantial money to deploy all the while also have lots of personnel, time, and testing to be done on LTE.

Hardware changes purely on the headset ... yeah. Because need to go to concurrent multiple channel broadcast. However, zero protocol changes on the towers ... that is a stretch. From what I've read looks like some aspects of EV-DO b comes with this as well.

Voice and data stay on different channels with different dedicated backhaul, so SVDO would not suffer from the kind of voice call drops that UMTS-3G can have.)

Again if phones use twice as many channels as they do now... likely going to run into congestion problems if the density of users stays the same.

Likewise backhaul updates would be required regardless of LTE or SVDO.

 

[Mr. MacPhisto]

Funny. And clueless.

Good retort.

Go back and see how I was saying a year ago that Verizon would hit LTE this year and was called clueless.

Smart people can give reasons for why they find it clueless. Sycophants write what you just did.

 

[Mr. MacPhisto]

Not necessarily. Mostly because most of the world still runs on GSM and since the iPhone runs on GSM, there's still a huge worldwide market for this device. I personally think the iPhone 5 will likely offer LTE, since worldwide rollout of LTE will start to increase in 2011.

There is a large worldwide market, but the core is still in the US just as it is for most Apple products. US marketshare of Macs, for instance, sits at somewhere around 10%. In Europe it is just under 5%. And remember that the iPhone is small potatoes compared to Symbian with nearly 50% of all global smartphones running it.

That's another factor as Nokia seems to want to try to aggressively go after the smartphone market in the US... again.

But LTE data plans arriving on Verizon well before they arrive on AT&T with Android gaining ground is not good for the iPhone. Some of the worst press about the iPhone has come over it dumping out of 3G coverage - AT&T's issue, but it affects the iPhone.

Android has pulled ahead of the iPhone in only about year and has momentum. The largest cell carrier pushing aggressive LTE data rates with Android phones come Christmas time spells trouble.

Like I've said, expect Verizon to launch a "Recycle Your iPhone" event during the Christmas shopping season and give big discounts on Android phones when you "upgrade" from the iPhone to a brand new LTE enabled handset. The Eastern Seaboard will be pretty much completely covered in November in Verizon's LTE. I've seen the coverage map of what is already installed and it's nearly 3/4 the size of Verizon's 3G map.

In the United States this is the end game for Verizon. They've been focused on this for the last couple of years. If iPhone comes to Verizon it will only be because Apple bowed before Verizon to save themselves. Internal Verizon research has indicated that a year after LTE is introduced and Android LTE phones are pushed, that the iPhone marketshare would be cut by more than 50% in the US.

Apple needs Verizon. Verizon doesn't need Apple. And if the iPhone begins decline then Apple stock begins declining. Apple's not going anywhere, but the strong rise of the stock and market capitalization is nearing an end. Innovation has died at Apple and they are living off past successes. The first iPhone was a stunner, but what's happened since then? The iPad has really been fairly ho-hum and more competition is coming. The Macs have looked and acted the same for the past couple of years and now the PC side is making much better computers at lower prices.

In the next year, Apple will have some big decisions to make. If they can no longer innovate and lead they will still be profitable for some time, but they will begin a slow spiral downward ala Microsoft.

 

[Geckotek]

If iPhone comes to Verizon it will only be because Apple bowed before Verizon to save themselves. Internal Verizon research has indicated that a year after LTE is introduced and Android LTE phones are pushed, that the iPhone marketshare would be cut by more than 50% in the US.

Apple needs Verizon. Verizon doesn't need Apple. And if the iPhone begins decline then Apple stock begins declining. Apple's not going anywhere, but the strong rise of the stock and market capitalization is nearing an end. Innovation has died at Apple and they are living off past successes. The first iPhone was a stunner, but what's happened since then? The iPad has really been fairly ho-hum and more competition is coming. The Macs have looked and acted the same for the past couple of years and now the PC side is making much better computers at lower prices.

In the next year, Apple will have some big decisions to make. If they can no longer innovate and lead they will still be profitable for some time, but they will begin a slow spiral downward ala Microsoft.

Look, I'm a fan of Verizon, but you really need to lay off drinking the Verizon kool-aid man.

Take a look at the recent financial outlook for Apple. Stocks won't be dropping, unless you're smarter than all the financial analysts out there. They just got a boost in their projections. I agree they need to continue expanding, but not to the degree of begging Verizon for anything. A CDMA iPhone could provide a 16% boost in sales of the iPhone based on projections I'm reading. But that includes both China and India with over 160 Milllion CDMA users in the Asia-Pacific market. Apple would do just fine without Verizon. And Verizon just fine without Apple. Neither needs to beg, but it's obvious from recent statements that Verizon want's an iPhone. Apple probably does too, but it's not like Steve to make a public statement like Verizon has been doing.

 

[NikeTalk]

With Droids being a hit with Verizon i'm sure Verizon isn't feeling as bad as they once were after the iPhone launching on Verizon never happened. They don't need each other as much as everyone thought before but if they both want to make some more money then yes they need each other. Apple is not a super company that the constitution mandates everyone must work with and if you do not you will fail.