NY Times Confirms Verizon iPhone for Next Year

[deconstruct60]

.... If you can't handle not having voice+data at the same time, that's fine, stick with ATT. There are 90+ million people on VZW who do not seem to have that problem, or can live without it and that's fine too.

If this is a LTE capable iPhone coming to Verizon then there is no voice+data constraint. LTE can handle VOIP. In fact that is why there is a LTE so can transition to VOIP all the time and dump legacy GSM and CDMA telephony. They are both old telephony tech and the 3G "GSM" implementations all use CDMA technology.


It would be kind of strange for the iPhone to launch on Verizon at approximately the same time LTE phones did. If the iPhone 4 cell antenna(s) can handle 700MHz it would be lame not to ship with a CDMA/LTE radio.
If they can't handle that freq then will have to wait for iPhone 5 body to get there. Sooner or later they would have to make one with that capability even if never went with Verizon. However, Apple is a bit conservation in adopting some tech so perhaps it will be alot later.


The much easier meeting point for Apple and Verizon though would be an updated iPad with LTE (a.k.a. "4G" when really 3.9). Can't even hand wave about exclusive contracts on that one. I can see how working out a deal for that could easily mutate into a rumor about an iPhone. A CDMA iPhone could be heading for another country (although if going to do one might as well do one with Verizon also. )

 

[kdarling]

(re: LTE) Sooner or later they would have to make one with that capability even if never went with Verizon. However, Apple is a bit conservation in adopting some tech so perhaps it will be alot later.

Well, there's a good point.

Apple is infamous for leaving out desirable features in its first models.

As much as many would love to see Apple make the first LTE phone in the USA, it would fit their M.O. far more to first make a CDMA-only version just to skim off the cream of early buyers. Then do an LTE upgrade later.

 

[longball11]

It's not false advertising, was it false advertising when Verizon bashed AT&T in it's misfit toys commercial? Or the "Tierra wearing statue" commercial? It's called satire...and most companies use humor to market their products ...good thing you aren't in marketing..

And there have been lawsuits when these things happen. ATT cried about it, sued and lost. So they fired back. Don't mock when you don't know the facts of the topic I spoke of. K? Thanks.

 

[deconstruct60]

Apple is infamous for leaving out desirable features in its first models.

But it could not be a first model. If can get a CDMA/LTE radio chip of same size as the GSM/3G radio chip in the current iPhone 4 then this is more like the difference between an iPhone 8GB and iPhone 32GB where just swap in chip with slightly different tech in it. Or, a bit less so, like an iMac that ships with a UK keyboard instead of a US one.

Sure there will be a few software tweaks that are different ( but that isn't really a "feature" diffference ). This isn't exactly a rocket science leap in technology. Every other competent, large headset designer companies have put out GSM/CDMA model using the same core design before.

I can't see Apple building a custom phone from ground up for Verizon (and CDMA ). I'd be surprised since design reuse is one of their core design constraints ( you see common components across several products). 2-3 years ago Apple knew AT&T and Verizon would be deploying 700MHz networks. It would have made sense to incorporate that into the iPhone 4 antenna design which also started 2 years ago. Likewise, if Apple tells Qualcomm "Your radio can't be any bigger than xx by yy and no more than zz Watts or we won't even consider buying it" before they get deep into their design freeze, then they may come up with something. Frankly that is likely something other headset designers want too. Not like Apple would be their only customer. )

The bigger hump to get over would be an antenna in the 700MHz auction range. There were no cell antennas down there until now because it used to be the TV spectrum. So need a more complicated wider spectrum antenna design since the non US LTE isn't using those frequencies.

Part of the reason why Apple has slow tech update is because their design process is so long on certain technology. However, this issue was a known one a long time ago.

As much as many would love to see Apple make the first LTE phone in the USA, it would fit their M.O. far more to first make a CDMA-only version just to skim off the cream of early buyers. Then do an LTE upgrade later.

The problem with an CDMA only is that users loose functionality on the "same" device. Does that sound like an "each pixel correct" Apple design principle ? Likewise, Apple has deployed radio tech that AT&T couldn't handle before. AT&T isn't deploying LTE till very late 2011. I wouldn't be surprised to see an iPhone 5 with LTE in June though. Phones have a multiple year usefulness. You'd have some peeved users if locked into two year contract and then in June-Aug release phone with LTE when already had the capability.

If the curent antenna can't handle 700MHz well or the radio won't fit in same basic iPhone 4 circuit board then fine. However, that makes it the wrong time. It would be better and more consistent with the design regimen to wait till have a core design can reuse across slightly different models. A CDMA only iPhone smacks of being just plain scared of Andriod and the rest of the competition. Apple is practically printing money with iPad sales. It isn't like they "need" the additional money in iPhone sales in the short term.



In the US, the spectrum being used for LTE by both ATT and Verizon is suppose to be open to hardware. Having very long term exclusivity contracts runs counter to that general notion even if technically they think they can tiptoe inside the law on it.

 

[sevnson71]

BIGFOOT SEEN CARRYING Verizon iPhone4

http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechcon...one-to-verizon-the-longest-running-tech-rumor

 

[landscapeman]

Maybe it really is happening. I don't care though. I wish US users had the option of (what?... like) 5 carriers like the UK.

Thats what I would like to see.

 

[kdarling]

Maybe it really is happening. I don't care though. I wish US users had the option of (what?... like) 5 carriers like the UK.

US users have over 180 facilities-based wireless providers to choose from. They just don't always cover the whole country.

But then, in comparison the UK is only about the size of the state of Michigan.

 

[adrian.oconnor]

I haven't read the 8 pages of the 'about time' and 'is this LTE?' and 'AT&T are just fine for me' comments, so I don't know if it's been said already -- but don't Microsoft have some kind of Windows Phone 7 announcement/event this week? If so, shrewd move on Apple's part. They play the game well

 

[alhedges]

I don't know whether the iPhone is coming to Verizon, and I mainly don't care, as AT&T has been good to me. (Although I do care to the extent that competition reduces prices or increases services...and it's always nice to have other options).

I'm pretty convinced that the 5 year exclusivity agreement is, well, an exclusivity agreement. That doesn't mean that there weren't provisions in it calling for certain readjustments after every year, or every two years, of course - but I don't believe that these would easily let either side end the exclusivity agreement. However, I do think that people may have been miscounting the five-year period. Five years from 2007 is 2012, and I think that's the normal way to construe what a five year agreement would cover. However, a five-year exclusivity agreement could have also meant that the exclusivity applies in 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, and ends sometime in 2011.

So the rumor could be consistent with the five-year exclusivity deal, assuming the deal meant five calendar years...in which case maybe there would be a Verizon announcement in January and a new vPhone introduced in June.

And of course Apple and AT&T could have renegotiated the contract...while there's not a lot of incentive for AT&T to do so (as their bet on Apple has paid off extremely well for them), it's possible that Apple could sweeten the pot somehow...maybe exclusivity ends 6 months early and AT&T gets 3 additional years of iPad exclusivity. Or something.

Or maybe AT&T will keep exclusivity until 2012.

All of these explanations are plausible, and there's just not enough actual information to know what's going to really happen. The only actual fact know is that a contract giving AT&T "five years" of "exclusivity" for the iPhone was signed in 2007. But we don't know anything about the terms of the K, whether it's been reworked, or even how the years are counted.

 

[jav6454]

The 2007 5-year exclusivity contract Apple and AT&T signed will expire in 2011.

That would be the case (Summer 2011 iPhone exclusivity goes away) if and only if, AT&T and Apple had not change their original contract. However, when the iPhone 3G came out, many executives at Apple and AT&T said the whole thing was changed.

 

[charlituna]

Until Apple or Verizon makes an announcement, this means absolutely nothing.

Indeed.

And one thing that none of these rumors has addressed is the contract with ATT. There are court records verifying the deal until 2012 with ATT

So how are they dealing with that issue. Is Apple buying out the last year or so of the contract. Is there a quality clause that allows Apple to nix the contract cause ATT doesn't have their stuff together. Is there a loophole that it only covers GSM exclusivity but CDMA is anything goes. Or a loophole that it only covers the newest mode and they can release the 3gs to anyone no issues


None of the talk even attempts to address this issue. They just play it like Apple is terrified of the competition, etc

That said, in every country where Apple has end carrier exclusivity,

in some countries they don't have a choice. Exclusive deals are illegal in many areas.

If Apple ends carrier exclusivity, the most logical step would be to let T-Mobile USA carry the handset.

it does seem that way yes.

And even with the issue that T-Mobile USA is forced by FCC rules to use a different bandwidth than ATT etc (which is why an unlocked iphone has no 3g data on T in the US) it is likely easier to adjust for that issue than cover a totally different tech that would require changes in software, potential battery issues. Even simply the issue of forcing their retail staff to deal with additional issues juggling two carriers, two totally different sets of phone stock etc

Note that T-Mobile is an official iPhone carrier in something like seven or eight European markets including T-Mobile's home country (Germany where they are the exclusive carrier). Based on this strong partnership, it would be likely that Apple offers the handset to the US T-Mobile subsidiary.

When would they do this? Maybe next week, maybe next month, maybe next year.

If you want solid facts, you'll know when they're available because tech media will have major articles that point to corporate press releases and company websites.[/QUOTE]

 

[mac'n'nz]

Iphone in New Zealand.

Every time I hear these rumors and speculation I wonder why Apple locks the device to AT&T. In New Zealand, the iphone comes factory unlocked, no jail breaking needed. You can use any network you wish. I mean, i know you can just jailbreak it but some people dont want to do that

 

[ingenious]

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The report comes just days after the Wall Street Journal similarly reported that Apple was going to ramp up production of a Verizon iPhone later this year for an early 2011 launch.

Do we need to count how many times SWJ has ran this story and been wrong? I'm sure they will get it right sooner or later then we can all bask in the glory of their astounding nearly prophetic reporting skills.

They DID accurately predict the Intel switch in 2005...

 

[kdarling]

Every time I hear these rumors and speculation I wonder why Apple locks the device to AT&T. In New Zealand, the iphone comes factory unlocked, no jail breaking needed.

Lucky. In about half the countries it's sold, the iPhone is locked to a carrier.

List of carriers, locked status, and if the carrier will unlock.

 

[deconstruct60]

Indeed.
And one thing that none of these rumors has addressed is the contract with ATT. There are court records verifying the deal until 2012 with ATT

There is nothing in that old case's documents to state that is the current contract. It is also extremely likely that the contract you are referring to allowed both parties to supersede the contract with a new on if they both wanted to. That is a pretty standard boilerplate clause which appears commonly.

Apple could have also 'bought' tier data pricing with a new one. Or they could have revised it when went to model where Apple took money for the phones instead of a piece of AT&T's action. The 5 year term is reportedly part of the original contract that Apple signed with AT&T. Their relationship (what plans Apple "requires" , splitting money , etc.) has changed over the years. There is also nothing stated that the old contract allowed for that and a new one wasn't required. Nor that a highly public dog-and-pony show was required if they signed a new one.

Frankly, unless someone has the exact wording I can see folks screwing it up too. For instance, a 5 year contract to deliver phones with a 2-3 year exclusive period. Still a 5 year contract. 5 year exclusie lockout is a ridiculous amount of time. if can't do OK with a 3 year head start ... WTF.... how incompentent are you ? It is also a stupid move by Apple because they are crippling themselves (which is now showing to be exactly the case). In 5 years lots of folks are on new cell technology and the market may have changed.

Also the common screw up with Althetes contracts. For example a contract potentiall worth $100M where really only $80M is guarantee and the rest are contingent on bonuses. So for example Apple could optionally grant up to 5 years but that was the bonus clause. Perhaps a guarantee 3 with a option 2 year extension. Using the typical lax reporting standards that would be "5 year exclusive".



If going to play the "show me the official annoucment", you should also be playing "show me the actual text of the contract".

So how are they dealing with that issue ... ...Or a loophole that it only covers the newest mode and they can release the 3gs to anyone no issues

Since the FCC was frowning on lock-in in the 700Mhz space (defacto LTE in the US for the major carriers ), it could easily have been an exception buried in the contract for that capability so that would not buck heads with the government downstream. The "get out of jail free" card could be incorporating LTE.

Likewise, there is likely nothing covering the iPad since it is not a phone. Unless Apple was clueless, the contract should be limited just phones.

They just play it like Apple is terrified of the competition, etc

Apple's growth will slow if the choose to stay out of markets. Up till now they have been able to ignore markets because could expand to more and more countries. That "card" is worn out at this point.

Jobs and the execs spend alot of time selling apple stock. Growth issues in the iPhone makes that harder.

And even with the issue that T-Mobile USA is forced by FCC rules to use a different bandwidth than ATT etc (which is why an unlocked iphone has no 3g data on T in the US)

Total B.S. Companies pay money to lease spectrum. If don't put enough money on the table you can't play. You're spinning this like the FCC said "No soup for you T-Mobile" and unilaterally sentenced them to 3G purgaory. T-Mobile bought leases to and has spectrum for 3G service. They went with the tradeoff of going after something that everyone else was not going after. Whether that saved or cost them money is debatable. It is on a different frequency than the limited radio Apple ships in their phones can deal with. There is zero technical or spectrum reason why there couldn't be a 3G iPhone. Just needs a slightly different radio and perhaps a tweak on the antenna design. None of that is FCC's fault.

3G is on different frequencies in different countries. It is mostly uniform but not completely uniform worldwide. There is no worldwide single standard frequency. So spinning this as a "FCC is bad" issue is bogus. The worldwide diversity of frequencies will be even greater in the LTE/"4G" space. Apple is going to have to make a bit more of an effort to not be extremely limited going forward.

 

[ingenious]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16)

What about the rumor from earlier this year about Verizon upgrading their CDMA network with a new revision to the standard, the one that allowed for simultaneous voice & data?

 

[Mr. MacPhisto]

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What about the rumor from earlier this year about Verizon upgrading their CDMA network with a new revision to the standard, the one that allowed for simultaneous voice & data?

Not happening because of their shift to LTE.

My Verizon source told me about a year ago that Verizon was turning on LTE at the end of this year. They also will have RIM and Android phones capable of running on CDMA/LTE at launch and their add campaign for Christmas is a direct attack on Apple and AT&T. They also will launch a direct attack on the superslow speed of the iPad when their tablet launches early next year featuring full LTE access for a lower price than the iPad 3G.

Verizon has set everything up to attack both Apple and AT&T. I have heard nothing of a Verizon iPhone because Apple has never wanted to meet Verizon's terms. If Apple goes to Verizon it will be because the iPhone will get branded by Verizon like they do with all their phones. They also will get treated liked any other manufacturer. There will be no kickbacks or sharing of monthly fees.

In short, if Apple does end up on Verizon it will be because Steve Jobs personally begged Verizon to help him off the sinking ship that is AT&T. AT&T is way behind Verizon on LTE and Jobs and Apple know full well that tech geeks will flock to Android and Verizon when they offer upgrades in internet connectivity speed.

If Verizon has Android phones on LTE for much of the country (rolling out to over 100 million people in November) and Blackberries doing the same and even possibly a new Windows Phone 7 LTE handset (that one's iffy), how many people want to wait 18 months for AT&T to offer even similar access? And in those 18 months Verizon's whole network will go LTE/CDMA legacy.

This is Verizon's endgame. They've invested in network infrastructure and made sure they'd do a LTE rollout before anyone else. Apple didn't want to play by their rules at the beginning and Verizon was focused on their network.

I don't see a LTE iPhone though, because apparently the CDMA/LTE chips are spoken for by HTC, Motorola, and RIM. Apple will have to launch CDMA only to start and pray people will buy it and then give them more money when they can finally make a LTE handset. The iPhone won't die, but Google was in on this with Verizon. Both decided this would be a great way to get Android way past the iPhone and RIM also has been hopeful it will stem the tide as well and keep them at #1 or #2.

The iPhone may end up being MySpace. Remember how huge it was a few years ago? That could be why Apple is making a CDMA iPhone, just hoping that Verizon will feel charitable. But Verizon is in control here and they're going to be bludgeoning AT&T and Apple over the next year.

 

[VenusianSky]

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Average cell phone users don't care about difference between 3G and LTE speeds. They care more about the device and then service availability/reliability for phone calls. LTE alone isn't going to get people to switch.

 

[louis Fashion]

Love it and leave it

Yea totally useless!!!! Because it only works in the county I live in! It only works in the country I never leave![/QUOTE]

Dude, its ok, you CAN leave! This is not East Germany.

 

[SactoGuy18]

The iPhone may end up being MySpace. Remember how huge it was a few years ago? That could be why Apple is making a CDMA iPhone, just hoping that Verizon will feel charitable. But Verizon is in control here and they're going to be bludgeoning AT&T and Apple over the next year.

Not necessarily. Mostly because most of the world still runs on GSM and since the iPhone runs on GSM, there's still a huge worldwide market for this device. I personally think the iPhone 5 will likely offer LTE, since worldwide rollout of LTE will start to increase in 2011.

 

[FlyinggPenguin]

Anyone else see the ironic Verizon ad underneath this thread?

 

[kdarling]

Anyone else see the ironic Verizon ad underneath this thread?

I'm on my laptop right now, but if it's the one I saw on my iPod touch last night, if you click it, you go to a Flash-only site.

Do we ever see Apple supporting any of these iPhone sites with ads? Talk about ironic, that Verizon and non-iPhone makers provide the money to keep their competing users talking.

 

[iMaFanboy]

Just an FYI

All first gen vzw LTE phones will have am LTE chipset for data and a CDMA chipset for voice. Voice and data won't go LTE until nationwide coverage is a reality. Rumors of CDMA iPhone don't rule out LTE.

No, that's why it's called a leak.



Wrong, it means one of 2 things:

1) It doesn't happen - means the WSJ got bad information and reported on it anyway
2) It does happen - means the WSJ had a good source and got it right




I don't understand statements like "until Steve announces it...yada yada". Before Steve announces it, major things will be happening such as manufacturers ramping up production lines. You guys act like there's some vacuum that is suddenly and magically filled with an iPhone that came out of Steve's ***. Totally disregarding rumors is foolish.



Positive rumors for Verizon doesn't necessarily mean T-Mobile won't get anything. Consider it good news as it means the exclusivity agreement is definately over (if this happens) and T-Mobile would also be able to negotiate for an iPhone.



A year ago it would have been an automatic switch for me. As of now AT&T has finally done enough to the network in Dallas to apease me for a bit. I won't be making a decision until I see what Verizon gets. A CDMA phone may not be enough to entice me...but an LTE iPhone might make me jump.



And I'll laugh my "arse" off when it turns out to be true.

Once again, this is no longer a rumor of a CDMA iPhone. This is rumor is specifically for a Verizon iPhone. The WSJ revised their story to be more specific on this point.



Name one time when the NYT confirmed a WSJ Verizon iPhone



I used my CDMA phone just fine in China and Korea.



Actually, based on Apple's history I'm going to guess that they won't. Primarily because the LTE chip won't be mature enough and may suck too much battery. Just a guess though.



A totally new CDMA iPhone is a bit different than an upgraded GSM iPhone. A lot more people, new people, have to be involved in the development and testing of a new CDMA iPhone. Kind of like the original iPhone that was leaked before it was announced.





Exactly...this too.



Exactly what I'm thinking.







The difference this time is that the are repeating the same story they told back in March. Seems perhaps their source was finally valid. We'll see in January I guess.




Read the story a few stories down. Verizon is already prepping their network. Besides, they've always handled more data than AT&T. I'd say they've always been more prepared than AT&T.




This is what I'm thinking as well.



You fail to realize that the technology to resolve this is ready to go and Verizon could easily roll it out in time for an iPhone launch.

 

[mccldwll]

Not happening because of their shift to LTE.

My Verizon source told me about a year ago that Verizon was turning on LTE at the end of this year. They also will have RIM and Android phones capable of running on CDMA/LTE at launch and their add campaign for Christmas is a direct attack on Apple and AT&T. They also will launch a direct attack on the superslow speed of the iPad when their tablet launches early next year featuring full LTE access for a lower price than the iPad 3G.

Verizon has set everything up to attack both Apple and AT&T. I have heard nothing of a Verizon iPhone because Apple has never wanted to meet Verizon's terms. If Apple goes to Verizon it will be because the iPhone will get branded by Verizon like they do with all their phones. They also will get treated liked any other manufacturer. There will be no kickbacks or sharing of monthly fees.

In short, if Apple does end up on Verizon it will be because Steve Jobs personally begged Verizon to help him off the sinking ship that is AT&T. AT&T is way behind Verizon on LTE and Jobs and Apple know full well that tech geeks will flock to Android and Verizon when they offer upgrades in internet connectivity speed.

If Verizon has Android phones on LTE for much of the country (rolling out to over 100 million people in November) and Blackberries doing the same and even possibly a new Windows Phone 7 LTE handset (that one's iffy), how many people want to wait 18 months for AT&T to offer even similar access? And in those 18 months Verizon's whole network will go LTE/CDMA legacy.

This is Verizon's endgame. They've invested in network infrastructure and made sure they'd do a LTE rollout before anyone else. Apple didn't want to play by their rules at the beginning and Verizon was focused on their network.

I don't see a LTE iPhone though, because apparently the CDMA/LTE chips are spoken for by HTC, Motorola, and RIM. Apple will have to launch CDMA only to start and pray people will buy it and then give them more money when they can finally make a LTE handset. The iPhone won't die, but Google was in on this with Verizon. Both decided this would be a great way to get Android way past the iPhone and RIM also has been hopeful it will stem the tide as well and keep them at #1 or #2.

The iPhone may end up being MySpace. Remember how huge it was a few years ago? That could be why Apple is making a CDMA iPhone, just hoping that Verizon will feel charitable. But Verizon is in control here and they're going to be bludgeoning AT&T and Apple over the next year.

Funny. And clueless.

 

[NoExpectations]

Rumors

2006: Apple to announce new mobile phone with Verizon
2007: Apple to add Verizon
2008: Apple to add Verizon
2009: Apple to add Verizon
2010: Apple to add Verizon
2011: Apple to add Verizon

Facts

Pre 2007: Verizon rejects iPhone partnership with Apple.
Post 2007: The total number of iPhones that are compatable with Verizon's network is 0.