AND AGAIN, to quote other Mac fans on this MAC board, if you don't have anything positive to say about the Mac, why again, are you here? Something I never understood about PC weenies... They are ALWAYS slamming Macs without ANY justification whatsoever - 'they suck'.... whatever.. That's why Mac users become such zealots... To quote a friend of mine that recently switched to Mac, reluctantly even 'Now I understand why Mac users get so upset with PC users... You can get so much more WORK done on a Mac... I'll never switch back..' He does video editing by the way... Have you ever been to a major recording studio in Hollywood??? Know what they use for ProTools? MACS.... Have you ever been to a television network??? Wanna know what they use? Hazard a guess? Buy a Dell - you deserve it....
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Offical: Macs Faster Than PCs
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2% market share???? DO YOU REALIZE THIS IS BECAUSE THEY DON'T USE MAC'S FOR FREAKING CASH REGISTERS AT WAL-MART.... Mac's are used by CREATIVE PEOPLE, and others.... Don't forget that the majority of PC installed base are NOT in homes..... They run the most MUNDANE tasks, where it simply doesn't matter what the hell they do with them - cheaper is better... Junk is better.... And they STILL crash all the time.... Next time you have to wait extra long at a cash register because they're 'rebooting the computer', just like I did yesterday, you now know why! BAH!!!
-Rower
Thank you.
You are absolutely correct. Regardless of the subject, or the interests of the audience, breaching simple common courtesy - as done repeadedly as ipodonly, is simply not called for.
Though I have to admit, 13 posts from registration to banning is darn quick.
Ok then, anyone want to take a shot on getting us back on topic?
Thank you.
You are absolutely correct. Regardless of the subject, or the interests of the audience, breaching simple common courtesy - as done repeadedly as ipodonly, is simply not called for.
Though I have to admit, 13 posts from registration to banning is darn quick.
Ok then, anyone want to take a shot on getting us back on topic?
Let's settle back down a bit VIREBEL, no need to shout.
Back OT:
I believe the leaked specs would put Macs at least on par w/ top of the line PCs. The key will be the long term performance gains, and if IBM can provide new chips regularly enough for Apple to maintain their performance position.
Back OT:
I believe the leaked specs would put Macs at least on par w/ top of the line PCs. The key will be the long term performance gains, and if IBM can provide new chips regularly enough for Apple to maintain their performance position.
you can't compare dell to apple, try ibm(rocksolid machines). dell really sucks when it comes to motherboard and thats like the main component to a computer. no offense but put as much money as you would into an apple and you'd see the benchmarks fly a lot higher then expected. Plus most of you haters hating PC, thinks winblows. Linux is really good and win2k is really not as bad as people think, why dont you guys just put more compatible hardware then buying other oem third party hardware +software. . Using xp and 98 lolz is like making the impossible work with the cheapo hardware you buy that you can probably make yourselves and solder on. But buying more supported hardware is probably just buying a mac. So in my terms spending more money defnitely a mac is nicer as well as the support they will give. gaming suxs, apple may be in the worse spot in this case for the most expensive machine you still can't play games well and i think that will change. Can't wait for june 23rd, i may actually switch. positive results finally =) waiting for the new pb.
There are some reasons i think mac is better, os being one of them, and video being another. And most software are built specificly to your mac(less crashes=more time more $$$). i think they have also have a better price then as if i was to put a PC with the same specs together. Monitors being one of the high costs. Very PRETTY.... whoo hehe. You get what you pay for heh. Today being my b-day i wish for mac to let me open one of those boxes today that marks do not open till june23rd. ^^ hehe i'm just dreaming now ain't i?
There are some reasons i think mac is better, os being one of them, and video being another. And most software are built specificly to your mac(less crashes=more time more $$$). i think they have also have a better price then as if i was to put a PC with the same specs together. Monitors being one of the high costs. Very PRETTY.... whoo hehe. You get what you pay for heh. Today being my b-day i wish for mac to let me open one of those boxes today that marks do not open till june23rd. ^^ hehe i'm just dreaming now ain't i?
angry mac
well...thats what you get with 85+% market share, or whatever the number is
most architects i know use pcs. is architecture not creative?
van gogh, with broken crayolas would´ve still created better still lifes than i, with grumbacher oils and sable brushes
edit: grammar
well...thats what you get with 85+% market share, or whatever the number is
most architects i know use pcs. is architecture not creative?
van gogh, with broken crayolas would´ve still created better still lifes than i, with grumbacher oils and sable brushes
edit: grammar
I was just about to suggest that we all start ignoring him...
I think the point for most of us is to prove to the Trolls that we're not stupid enough to believe what they have to say, because we know our subject better than that. The sad thing is that most well informed mac users are better informed about the PC world than the mac bashers who come in and troll like that.
You should have seen one of the threads on iTMS right after it came out somewhere else...some dork going
"Do you really think Microsoft is going to let them have all the business? Well, celebrate while you can, mac-heads, they've got something coming...I wish I could tell you, but you wouldn't believe me anyway!"
Or something like that.
oomega1, please try to do some reasonable proofreading, I like to read what others have to say when they are reasonable length posts, but it's hard when it's all kinda clumped and jumbled. No offense.
Apple //e, that's a software issue. There are rumblings about some major architectural SW coming to the mac, and that would be great. Most architects are real artists, and I'm sure they'd like to join their kin on the side of light.
And....egad...Alienware? Good for a PC case, but...have some taste. We all know mac cases look better than that.
I think the point for most of us is to prove to the Trolls that we're not stupid enough to believe what they have to say, because we know our subject better than that. The sad thing is that most well informed mac users are better informed about the PC world than the mac bashers who come in and troll like that.
You should have seen one of the threads on iTMS right after it came out somewhere else...some dork going
"Do you really think Microsoft is going to let them have all the business? Well, celebrate while you can, mac-heads, they've got something coming...I wish I could tell you, but you wouldn't believe me anyway!"
Or something like that.
oomega1, please try to do some reasonable proofreading, I like to read what others have to say when they are reasonable length posts, but it's hard when it's all kinda clumped and jumbled. No offense.
Apple //e, that's a software issue. There are rumblings about some major architectural SW coming to the mac, and that would be great. Most architects are real artists, and I'm sure they'd like to join their kin on the side of light.
And....egad...Alienware? Good for a PC case, but...have some taste. We all know mac cases look better than that.
Yes, what he said.
What I think is obvious, and the thing that the thinking PC loyalist should know, is that IBM will not let Apple down in the manner that Moto did.
The Ars Technica article, to me, pointed to some very quick growth potential in the chip as far as performance, because it's not even quite flushed out yet -- no on-die memory controller, "tacked on" AltiVec, and of course, it's rev 1.
The next round of 970s should rock.
As long as Apple is good to IBM, I think they are going to be a very dangerous pair.
This is my attempt to be OT. Hope it worked.
Re: Re: I like PCS, but...
Hey...I've been trying to figure this out for a long time now. What exactly is "registry haystacking"?
I've had to use PCs and Macs for years now. My Macs remain the same speed, or get faster with upgrades, but for some reason my PCs get slower...One of the reasons why my Macs last at least 2-3 times longer than my PCs is because my PCs just seem to slow down over time.
Of course I do routine maintenance on my PC like defrag and always check for viruses, but the PCs always seem to slow down over time.
Originally posted by patrick0brien
-MacSlut
Here's one for you now
My father has a 1 year old IBM NetVista P4 2.2GHz.
It's so haystacked it's slower than my brother's 120mhz 7200.
There's a point we rarely hear discussed, the eventual slowdown from registry haystacking.
Hey...I've been trying to figure this out for a long time now. What exactly is "registry haystacking"?
I've had to use PCs and Macs for years now. My Macs remain the same speed, or get faster with upgrades, but for some reason my PCs get slower...One of the reasons why my Macs last at least 2-3 times longer than my PCs is because my PCs just seem to slow down over time.
Of course I do routine maintenance on my PC like defrag and always check for viruses, but the PCs always seem to slow down over time.
Re: Re: Re: I like PCS, but...
PCS have a registary which logs everything on ur computer, as u do things install programs etc unistall blah blah this registary goes to hell and gets really mumbled and clogged and since its pretty much the center of the computer u computer slows down,,, and the more jumbled it is the slower it gets. Try doing a clean install of windows this will speed things up alot..
PCS have a registary which logs everything on ur computer, as u do things install programs etc unistall blah blah this registary goes to hell and gets really mumbled and clogged and since its pretty much the center of the computer u computer slows down,,, and the more jumbled it is the slower it gets. Try doing a clean install of windows this will speed things up alot..
Well, now that that has been taken care of...
I too think this is only the beginning. Now when we say things like "just wait until the G6", we won't be complaining about todays speed. Just anxious for even more. No, Intel and AMD won't just be sitting around. But ipodonly doesn't seem to be aware of the benefits of the G5, coming Monday (we hope). Maybe he doesn't know anything about it.
If the dual 2 GHz G5s are available, in a few months even, they'll be competing against 3.2 GHz P4s and 3400 AMDs. Opterons and Xeons, maybe. Other high-end (and expensive) specs to contend with. But now everything can be equal spec-wise. And equal is very good. If price stays within the bounds of us mortals.
- I try not to respond to people calling me an idiot, especially when they don't know about USB mice and claim to use a Dual 700 MHz Mac. Huh?
I too think this is only the beginning. Now when we say things like "just wait until the G6", we won't be complaining about todays speed. Just anxious for even more. No, Intel and AMD won't just be sitting around. But ipodonly doesn't seem to be aware of the benefits of the G5, coming Monday (we hope). Maybe he doesn't know anything about it.
If the dual 2 GHz G5s are available, in a few months even, they'll be competing against 3.2 GHz P4s and 3400 AMDs. Opterons and Xeons, maybe. Other high-end (and expensive) specs to contend with. But now everything can be equal spec-wise. And equal is very good. If price stays within the bounds of us mortals.
- I try not to respond to people calling me an idiot, especially when they don't know about USB mice and claim to use a Dual 700 MHz Mac. Huh?
Its nice for you to fantasize of a dual 2.0GHz Mac being as fast as a dual Xeon, but I think so.
However, here's the thing: I don't care. I don't care because I know that there will be a 2.5GHz out in a year that only will probably be as good as a 3.06GHz dual proc Xeon is now, and in 2-3 years, there will be a dual 3.5GHz 980 that will kick the crap out of the top Xeon machine.
Its the prospect and inevitability of Apple being the fastest in the future that excites me. The 970 means good things for Apple, but only in the long run, only by what it represents ---- a turn of the tide. But I'd rather lead the race over the long haul rather than lead or tie Intel at this very moment.
However, here's the thing: I don't care. I don't care because I know that there will be a 2.5GHz out in a year that only will probably be as good as a 3.06GHz dual proc Xeon is now, and in 2-3 years, there will be a dual 3.5GHz 980 that will kick the crap out of the top Xeon machine.
Its the prospect and inevitability of Apple being the fastest in the future that excites me. The 970 means good things for Apple, but only in the long run, only by what it represents ---- a turn of the tide. But I'd rather lead the race over the long haul rather than lead or tie Intel at this very moment.
Re: angry mac
That's because AutoCAD is not out for Macintosh, and it is the most popular CAD program out there. Autodesk is considering releasing AutoCAD for Mac OS X though.
I know a guy at college that wanted to get a Mac but needed AutoCAD, so he got a PC. In the end, he's decided not to switch because he's planning on running Pro Tools on a rackmount solution, so he has little incentive to switch.
Never have figured out why he needs AutoCAD though, as he's a music/business major...
That's because AutoCAD is not out for Macintosh, and it is the most popular CAD program out there. Autodesk is considering releasing AutoCAD for Mac OS X though.
I know a guy at college that wanted to get a Mac but needed AutoCAD, so he got a PC. In the end, he's decided not to switch because he's planning on running Pro Tools on a rackmount solution, so he has little incentive to switch.
Never have figured out why he needs AutoCAD though, as he's a music/business major...
And also, the promise of the 980's in the future is very encouraging... Then again, we could all be wrong, but there's too much evidence to the contrary...
And YES - of course architects are very creative - and again - my apologies to any of them I may have offended... When it comes to Mac's, I'm like an example of the 'far left', or 'far right', or whatever!
And YES - of course architects are very creative - and again - my apologies to any of them I may have offended... When it comes to Mac's, I'm like an example of the 'far left', or 'far right', or whatever
!
Originally posted by Abstract
Its nice for you to fantasize of a dual 2.0GHz Mac being as fast as a dual Xeon, but I think so.
However, here's the thing: I don't care. I don't care because I know that there will be a 2.5GHz out in a year that only will probably be as good as a 3.06GHz dual proc Xeon is now, and in 2-3 years, there will be a dual 3.5GHz 980 that will kick the crap out of the top Xeon machine.
Its the prospect and inevitability of Apple being the fastest in the future that excites me. The 970 means good things for Apple, but only in the long run, only by what it represents ---- a turn of the tide. But I'd rather lead the race over the long haul rather than lead or tie Intel at this very moment.
Actually if IBM holds to it's current plans the PPC970 will reach 3GHz in 6 months and in a year the PPC980 will be debuted at around 4GHz. We are going to catch up on clock speed but greatly surpass them on overall processing power if Apple is indeed going with IBMs PPC line which is yet to be actually proven. Monday can't come soon enough.
There goes bandit again, putting the best of all practically established scenarios together in one enticing paragraph. Works for me! I figured it would take a few months to truly take the speed crown back anyway, for the very reason that the 970 hasn't reached its architectural potential yet. Good things are coming...doo doo doo...
Yeah now that you mention it it really is based on IBM delivering as promised which in the world of Motorola is unheard of. Though this is IBM and IBM has a habit of not only delivering as promised but actually exceeding early estimates. I truly think we will soon be ahead of the game if in fact Apple uses the 970. IBM will be moving to 90nm soon which will give us at least a 50% boost and the 980 is already in devolpement and if everything goes as it did with the 970 will be debuted at 4GHz in just over a year with more processing power per clock cycle to boot.
Re: Re: angry mac
And, for the record, when you work in an industry where there's an established standard, its no use saying that some other program is better. First, it probably isn't (realistically, even the quirks of most of this class of software are there for a historical reason), even if it seems that way to a casual user. Second, people have years of experience in working with a particular package and its not worth the expense of retraining (could easily be $25-50k for something like AutoCAD if you include lost productivity -- maybe more).
That's the same reason that I was very happy to see Oracle for OS X. It may not be all that good, but its remarkably predictable and our customers often demand it. Add in a DB2 option, a couple of XServe RAIDs, and some good fast server processors (even a dual 970 would work for smaller sites), and you're looking at some mightily appealing hardware at a very reasonable price point.
-Richard
Disclaimer: I write enterprise logistics software (mostly serverside) for a living, and have done AutoCAD integrations, etc.
This is an important point, and why its fantastic to see Apple at least talking to the Enterprise/Workstation software developers about porting product.
And, for the record, when you work in an industry where there's an established standard, its no use saying that some other program is better. First, it probably isn't (realistically, even the quirks of most of this class of software are there for a historical reason), even if it seems that way to a casual user. Second, people have years of experience in working with a particular package and its not worth the expense of retraining (could easily be $25-50k for something like AutoCAD if you include lost productivity -- maybe more).
That's the same reason that I was very happy to see Oracle for OS X. It may not be all that good, but its remarkably predictable and our customers often demand it. Add in a DB2 option, a couple of XServe RAIDs, and some good fast server processors (even a dual 970 would work for smaller sites), and you're looking at some mightily appealing hardware at a very reasonable price point.
-Richard
Disclaimer: I write enterprise logistics software (mostly serverside) for a living, and have done AutoCAD integrations, etc.
Definitely a possible scenario and theirs no doubt that at 90nm process and 3 GHz, the PPC970 will definitely surpass the Xeon. However, Xeon won't be the threat, Noconas, the next Xeon is set to be released before the Prescott which is soon considering that Prescott will be released 4Q this year. It will be the equivalent of Prescott in every aspect (at least a 25% increase in clock to clock performance, scale to at least 5 GHz) except that it will have a larger trace cache (probably a 3% increase in performance) and more importantly will feature 4x hyperthreading meaning that instead of simulating 2 cores like the current hyperthreading, the Noconas will simulate 4 cores, greatly boosting performance in multithreaded applications. Thus, a dual Noconas system will have the equivalent of eight cores. Of course, we'll have to see how good second generation hyperthreading really is, first generation hyperthreading gives about 25% the performance of dual processors.
2 GHz PPC970---3+ GHz Prescot---2+ GHz Athlon 64
3 GHz PPC970---5 GHz Prescott---??? GHz Athlon 64
Dual 3 GHz PPC970---Single/Dual Noconas---Deerfield Itanium 3
4 GHz PPC980---5+ GHz Tejas
lets also give credit to apple for mother board design serial ata, dual banks ddr for dual cpu, usb2 etc. as they could haqve simply put the 970 in the mdd towers and called it a day even a g4 would be respectable if it had the 970s memory controller, ddr 400 1000 mhz buss serial ata, usb 2 etc alsas but we would be stuck at 1.4 forever,
so to everyone involved in the 970 chip and motherboard design thanks,
but dont dom a moto and rest keep advancing at the best rate you can.
I love it when a PC user joins a mac forum simply to annoy people and stray from the topic. If you don't understand why some people love their computing experience of choice, why bother spewing facts about your choice? Nothing better to do. Why do you need such vastly superior computing power if you spend your time trying to piss people off?
I like that my DP 450 G4 (OS 10.2) system has been running for about three weeks without needing a restart. I play some games like Unreal Tournament, but if I was obsessed with gaming I would build a PC system just for that purpose. I'm satisfied with what I have now. I use photoshop and illustrator as a web designer. I like the BSD foundation for web development. I have Apache and MySQL running which I use for that purpose. iTunes is a great product. I rip full length CDs in less time than it takes to play the first song. I burn CDs at almost the same rate. I have an enormous number of applications installed and my system doesn't get bogged down. Plus it all works great together and it looks fantastic.
I built a PC system for my sister a few years ago when I already had a G3 Powerbook for a year. Guess what. The PC is nearly useless now and the powerbook runs OS X and all of my software still. I can still use it for development and iTunes and internet even better than i could back then. The PC s l o w s to a grinding halt by installing simple software, that secretly installs other software, that is not so secretly popping up windows all over the place, for which you install a pop up blocker which further bogs it down. It's a paper weight. I had to install Linux get any use out of it.
I'm really excited about the new hardware, but realistically I will get another few years of great use out of this machine which cost me $2000 about two years ago. I will probably upgrade the video card to take advantage of Quartz Extreme, but aside from that I've only addes about $80 worth of RAM.
It's preference, and Mac users have higher standards for things that may seem trivial to you. I'm a fan of the complete user experience. I've used a lot of PCs for work and never felt like I was missing out on anything including performance gains. So to speak your lanuage iPodonly... shut up stoopid.
I like that my DP 450 G4 (OS 10.2) system has been running for about three weeks without needing a restart. I play some games like Unreal Tournament, but if I was obsessed with gaming I would build a PC system just for that purpose. I'm satisfied with what I have now. I use photoshop and illustrator as a web designer. I like the BSD foundation for web development. I have Apache and MySQL running which I use for that purpose. iTunes is a great product. I rip full length CDs in less time than it takes to play the first song. I burn CDs at almost the same rate. I have an enormous number of applications installed and my system doesn't get bogged down. Plus it all works great together and it looks fantastic.
I built a PC system for my sister a few years ago when I already had a G3 Powerbook for a year. Guess what. The PC is nearly useless now and the powerbook runs OS X and all of my software still. I can still use it for development and iTunes and internet even better than i could back then. The PC s l o w s to a grinding halt by installing simple software, that secretly installs other software, that is not so secretly popping up windows all over the place, for which you install a pop up blocker which further bogs it down. It's a paper weight. I had to install Linux get any use out of it.
I'm really excited about the new hardware, but realistically I will get another few years of great use out of this machine which cost me $2000 about two years ago. I will probably upgrade the video card to take advantage of Quartz Extreme, but aside from that I've only addes about $80 worth of RAM.
It's preference, and Mac users have higher standards for things that may seem trivial to you. I'm a fan of the complete user experience. I've used a lot of PCs for work and never felt like I was missing out on anything including performance gains. So to speak your lanuage iPodonly... shut up stoopid.
I agree with the points of m_gerbik and many others who've indicated that having the fastest possible computer doesn't make it the best computer.
I'm sitting here typing this in on a Grape iMac DV 400. It's nearly 4 years old, and though it has 512 MB of RAM, it has an old AGI Rage 128 Pro graphics card with 8 MB of VRAM and a lowly G3 processor.
Guess what...because I am not a game player, this machine works perfectly fine for what I use it for. It runs 10.2 very smoothly. It has no trouble with the entire line of iApps, photos, videos, music, etc. And in 4 years, I've never ONCE had any single problem with the hardware. No repairs needed, it's working just as well as the day I bought it. Even the hockey puck mouse.
Do I want something better? Yes...but unlike most, I admit that my desire for a newer machine is more out of envy, not out of necessity. No one needs a dual processor 2.0 GHz G5 for word processing, internet, and managing their music and photo collections. But we all want one, simply because it's cool. And there's nothing wrong with that.
But ask a PC user how well their doing with their 4 year old machine, like mine. Does it run XP smoothly? Is it a true digital hub, with seamless integration between the applications? And does it still look just as lovely to the eye today, still seeming like a work of art ahead of its time? My Grape iMac DV does.
And THAT is why you can't express the price of the "Apple Experience" in dollars alone. Especially over a $300 price margin for a machine that lasts as long as a Macintosh does. It's just silly.
-- Ensoniq
I'm sitting here typing this in on a Grape iMac DV 400. It's nearly 4 years old, and though it has 512 MB of RAM, it has an old AGI Rage 128 Pro graphics card with 8 MB of VRAM and a lowly G3 processor.
Guess what...because I am not a game player, this machine works perfectly fine for what I use it for. It runs 10.2 very smoothly. It has no trouble with the entire line of iApps, photos, videos, music, etc. And in 4 years, I've never ONCE had any single problem with the hardware. No repairs needed, it's working just as well as the day I bought it. Even the hockey puck mouse.
Do I want something better? Yes...but unlike most, I admit that my desire for a newer machine is more out of envy, not out of necessity. No one needs a dual processor 2.0 GHz G5 for word processing, internet, and managing their music and photo collections. But we all want one, simply because it's cool. And there's nothing wrong with that.
But ask a PC user how well their doing with their 4 year old machine, like mine. Does it run XP smoothly? Is it a true digital hub, with seamless integration between the applications? And does it still look just as lovely to the eye today, still seeming like a work of art ahead of its time? My Grape iMac DV does.
And THAT is why you can't express the price of the "Apple Experience" in dollars alone. Especially over a $300 price margin for a machine that lasts as long as a Macintosh does. It's just silly.
-- Ensoniq
-Ensoniq, m_gerbik
Thaaaank you!
If one was interested in speed, I suspect one would buy a slew of headless, specialized nodes.
Not a full-featured machine.
It's about the experience, machines are fast enough now to give it to us.
Back in the 80's, speed was an issue, but now...
Thaaaank you!
If one was interested in speed, I suspect one would buy a slew of headless, specialized nodes.
Not a full-featured machine.
It's about the experience, machines are fast enough now to give it to us.
Back in the 80's, speed was an issue, but now...
Couldn't agree with you more. Most PCs blow simply because PC manufacturers are incredibly cheap...
Just a note about what a lot of people are saying about macs being pretty... really, the only part of your computer you should care about that is pretty is your monitor... its what you're going to be staring at. As for towers... most people have them under the desk or hidden away anyways. As for laptops... I really like powerbooks because they're damn nice to look at