Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
This rumor site is becoming sadly quite useless.

Come on. Think before you post.
So this year we're going Mini-LED after 15+ years on LCD. Next year we're going OLED. The year or two after we're doing Micro-LED?

Who believes this crap?
actually I think it's very possible. people in th display supply Chain are also hearing 2022 it seems so it's hard useless.
 
Another day, another OLED, Mini-LED rumour...

Let's see what they're all saying next week - 2021 or 2022 for the first ones.
 
You need both the design and the fab competence to succeed and they are equally important. Do you think it is easy to fab chips with 5 nm features? I bet the processes protocols are under strict NDA and that knowledge is the edge that TMSC has at the moment. Otherwise, all others would just copy and paste. Not far ago, Samsung was the leader in fab. The reason Intel is behind on the node scale is not lack of funding for buying machines for photopatterning at 5 nm scale but they lack people with the knowledge to operate said machines to get good chips out.
I think you are quoting the wrong person :)
 
mini led is short term gap then before OLED...seems odd why they would bother and just wait another year
And OLED is the gap to microLED and beyond. Everything is a gap to something. miniLED rumours for Macs have been around for quite a while. Maybe iPads will get OLED, but I don't think Macs will get OLED any time soon.
 
Apple doesn't develop tech. They do testing to see which suppliers have the best tech, but they don't develop them. It's like building a PC.

Wow, do people actually believe this? Apple does a huge amount of R&D work to perfect and refine technologies on their devices. They then work with contract manufacturers to bring that stuff to market. It’s one of the most imprsssive innovation engines in the world. NOTHING at all like building a PC.
 
Wrong. Apple can make a few worthless customizations to a manufacturer's reference design to call it customized, but the underlying technology belongs to the manufacturer to improve yield rates, reduce ramp-up risk and lower costs.

As the great Elon Musk said, manufacturing is the most difficult and important part of tech development. Designing is one the easiest steps. It's the magic of manufacturing that determines the limits of your design. Designers only need to carefully play around the limits of the manufacturing process, but their overall impact to performance and quality is very minimal.
IE. Look at AMD vs Intel processors. When AMD had the process advantage, their CPUs started outperforming Intel's.
funny quoting Elon Musk on something he’s terrible at: manufacturing. Tesla build quality is comparable to Kia in the 90s.

How can AMD have the process advantage, since they don’t have their own fabs? The process is TSMC, the architecture is AMD.

I’m starting to think you’re full of it.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Razorpit
funny quoting Elon Musk on something he’s terrible at: manufacturing. Tesla build quality is comparable to Kia in the 90s.

How can AMD have the process advantage, since they don’t have their own fabs? The process is TSMC, the architecture is AMD.

I’m starting to think you’re full of it.

What’s also funny is that when we had our own fab in Dresden, which was nowhere near as good as Intel’s fabs, we still spanked Intel with Opteron back in the mid 2000s. How could we have done that if all that matters is manufacturing, and design doesn’t matter?

Manufacturing is important, but his or her thesis that “developing products” means “‘developing manufacturing processes” and that the design process is simple and doesn’t matter just shows that he or she has never designed a complex product.
 
Guys, I know a lot of you may disagree with me, but I personally am not impressed with OLED displays. I get that they have blacker blacks, but it always looks so washed out to me, so dim, and so low in color saturation - they remind me a lot of VA panels. (Same with OLED monitors and TVs.) I'm far, far happier with a mini LED display, and I can't wait until someone scales up micro-LED. There's a reason all the professionally calibrated color monitors are IPS and not OLED. I wonder if the real motivation for OLED isn't screen quality but low power?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mc0
I think OLEDs are better suited for phones because most people change their phones every 2-3 years. OLEDs look good in their first year but once burn-in starts, the quality of the display starts to change. Laptops have more static elements which will increase the possibility of screen burn-in. No amount of screensaving features can stop the quality degradation. You can only mitigate it.
 
Not really. In theory, yes OLED is awesome but there are many technical issues that LED is still better. The only problem (pretty much) with LED is the backlight issue so Mini LED can mimic OLED if enough LEDs applied.

OLED is also very expensive compared to Mini LED.

I really hope this OLED is fake news because last thing I want is burn ins everywhere. Unless Apple miraculously solved all the issues (which I doubt)

OLED is better than Mini-LED.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mc0
Not really. In theory, yes OLED is awesome but there are many technical issues that LED is still better. The only problem (pretty much) with LED is the backlight issue so Mini LED can mimic OLED if enough LEDs applied.

OLED is also very expensive compared to Mini LED.

I really hope this OLED is fake news because last thing I want is burn ins everywhere. Unless Apple miraculously solved all the issues (which I doubt)

With Mini LED the image is buried in the LCDness of the technology, you can see it isn't as sharp and slightly blurry

With OLED there is no layer, its right up front to the glass the pixels just turn on and off its insane how good it is
 
You need both the design and the fab competence to succeed and they are equally important. Do you think it is easy to fab chips with 5 nm features? I bet the processes protocols are under strict NDA and that knowledge is the edge that TMSC has at the moment. Otherwise, all others would just copy and paste. Not far ago, Samsung was the leader in fab. The reason Intel is behind on the node scale is not lack of funding for buying machines for photopatterning at 5 nm scale but they lack people with the knowledge to operate said machines to get good chips out.

You sound like you know what you're talking about, so I will only reply to you and ignore the Apple fanatics.

The fabbing process is, by far, the most important part, and it is also the hardest.
Can you explain why designing is as hard or even as important?
It's not hard to determine the transistor density and the various energy consumptions of certain SoC designs using a particular fabbing process. The problem then boils down to a cost-benefit analysis (How big do you want to make your CPU/GPU cores before your yield rates plummet?). The good fabbing process lets the non-fabbing 'designer' have more options to play with, but at the end of the day, the non-fabbing customer is a cost-benefit decider, not someone who is pushing tech like the fabbing company.
 
Joke of the week. :))))

Apple certainly developes tech. A chip and M chips are the prime examples of that!

Apple doesn't develop tech. They do testing to see which suppliers have the best tech, but they don't develop them. It's like building a PC.
 
You couldn't be more wrong. I suggest you read up and educate yourself a bit more.

The M1 is on a 5nm process while AMD's latest are on 7nm. You haven't disproven anything; in fact, you only made my argument stronger.
The M1's magic comes from TSMC's 5nm process. Anyone can design something similar to the M1. It's not hard. Fab-less "Designing" is more about cost-benefit analysis than actual technological progress. It most certainly is not as hard as designing the actual fabbing process (There is only 1 company in the world that can do it), nor is it that important. Anyone can do it.
 
Apple is like every other company - they will use whatever technology maximizes profits while giving their marketing department an "edge" to promote their products over the competition.
 
What’s also funny is that when we had our own fab in Dresden, which was nowhere near as good as Intel’s fabs, we still spanked Intel with Opteron back in the mid 2000s. How could we have done that if all that matters is manufacturing, and design doesn’t matter?

Manufacturing is important, but his or her thesis that “developing products” means “‘developing manufacturing processes” and that the design process is simple and doesn’t matter just shows that he or she has never designed a complex product.

This is a terrible argument. Intel is known to have intentionally gimped their mid and low-end processors to make their high-end processors more attractive. Their highest-end chips were also exorbitantly more expensive than AMD's, and most people buying server chips went with the best-performing options, which was intel chips, at that time.
This was more about business decisions than about technical competence. Just look how long it took for intel to put multi-threading on their i3 and i5 CPUs - It was only when AMD released Zen that Intel put more features on their low and mid-range chips.

Like I said - designing chips is a cost-benefit game, not a tech game.

Joke of the week. :))))

Apple certainly developes tech. A chip and M chips are the prime examples of that!

The A and M chips are more cost-benefit analysis than tech development. It's 99% TSMC.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.