OMG. Please reserve all judgement on rMBP until you see it in person.

[wethackrey]

Most cMBP owners are techies while most rMBP owners are casual users who remind me those people, either wealthy or poor, who buy an expensive car and whenever they need to change the oil or the windshield wiper fluid, they take it to the repair shop . They probably have never opened or would never open their car bonnet . Not to mention, they are susceptible to positive criticism, especially if it comes from cMBP owners...

I'm curios where you came across this significant nugget of information. I assume you're drawing from your wealth of personal experience. I, for one, don't have access to Apple's sales demographics on the MBPr. I can only rely on MY personal experience. I only know four owners of MBPr's, including myself.

Personally, I have owned Mac laptops going back to the Powerbook 120. I've even owned a Mac Portable and more than one Lisa. I founded Apple's first non-storefront dealership and have been an Apple developer for longer than I care to tell you. I've owned six MacBook Pros and Lord knows how many PowerBooks. I put my first SSD in a Mac laptop six years ago. I'm migrating to the MBPr from a 17" MBP which I personally upgraded the HDD and memory on. These days I make my living as a consulting solutions architect on large cloud implementations. So that's one. I don't know where, with your sage widsom, you'd rate me on your "techie" scale, but by any rational measure it would be high.

The second is a friend who's a solutions architect with Cisco. His background is designing large, complex networks and VOIP systems and he's currently a cloud architect working with Cisco's next generation Unified Computing Standard systems. Like me, he's been doing this for a long time. That's two. Again, by any rational measure, a "techie".

The third is the senior technologist in a fast moving "Big Data" company. He knows more about dealing with multiple terabytes of data and state-of-the-art nosql, map-reduce databases than anyone on the planet. That's three. I have to assume he'd make your cut in your definition of "techie".

The fourth is a guy I just met two weeks ago. He runs a marketing company. Not a technologist by trade, but his office is 100% Macintosh and he's used Mac laptops since his first Titanium PowerBook. He was running a beta copy of Mountain Lion on his new MBPr when I met him. He still had the late 15" MBP that preceded it. I'd rate him as a techie, but your standards might be higher than mine. So I'll give you that one.

That makes it three out of four, if not four out of four, owners of MBPr's that I'm personally familiar with are techies. Not that it matters. It's incredibly arrogant, and just plain wrong, to suggest that someone who chooses a non-retina MacBook Pro simply knows better.

Hey, I don't begrudge you your favoring a "classic" MacBook Pro. You're entitled to your learned opinion. I would, however, suggest that you get them while you can. They won't be around much longer.

[And, by the way, I changed my own oil on my Jaguar XKR. I don't work on the supercharger though. I leave that to professionals.]

 

[gentlefury]

Most cMBP owners are techies while most rMBP owners are casual users who remind me those people, either wealthy or poor, who buy an expensive car and whenever they need to change the oil or the windshield wiper fluid, they take it to the repair shop . They probably have never opened or would never open their car bonnet . Not to mention, they are susceptible to positive criticism, especially if it comes from cMBP owners...

ummm, you sir are horribly mistaken! I bought a rMBP because it is the best Macbook available and when I upgrade I only get the best, since it lasts the longest and returns the most money when I sell it.

As for taking the car to the dealer for oil changes...well my car comes with 3 years maintenance....so its free. Not gonna turn that down!!

 

[sofianito]

People have been buying special screwdrivers to open MBPs for quite some time. iFixIt.com sells tool kits for this purpose.

What for?
Will you be able to add more RAM? No
Will you be able to replace the disk? No
Will you be able to replace the battery? No

You can't even say "most" with any degree of accuracy, as you simply don't know.

Do a poll. Statistics is not an accurate science, it is based on probabilities.
People are still betting and buying on rMBPs knowing there are lag issues. Some owners are so blurred by the retina crispiness that they consider the lags as a minor issues and probably won't return it. They have spent more than $2k and they don't have high expectations about the performance. So, with the mentioned facts, what's the probability these people are not techies? It is likely > 0.5.

Only by those who prefer the retina and are so insecure that they feel threatened by anyone having a different opinion.

Probably, but according to you, you can't say it with any degree of accuracy, as you simply don't know

No, not everyone, as many don't care for the glossy screen.

Do a poll. Ask people what they do prefer?

A) rMBP (not upgradable)
B) cMBP with hires AG (upgradable)
C) cMBP with retina display (upgradable)

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

You guys do realize that the Retina model is actually cheaper than the non-Retina model for the same features, don't you? Outfit the non-Retina 2.6 GHz model and the Retina 2.6 GHz model with the identical features, or as close to identical as possible. The non-Retina comes in at $3,199 and is equipped with its maximum 8 GB RAM. The Retina, on the other hand, comes in at $2,878 with a non-expandable 8 GB or $3,078 for 16 GB (double RAM and less expensive than non-Retina model). Given these economics, who wouldn't want a beautiful Retina Display model? Mine is absolutely fantastic - I have not seen even a hint of UI lag anywhere in the system. I've tried Launchpad, Mission Control, Dashboard. This thing screams!

 

[mykelala01]

just my opinion but having the retina @ 1680 side by side with a high res glossy cMBP it's harder to tell, but the difference is still there. A buddy of mine with an early 2011 15 pro literally said wow looking at the screen. The AG is very washed out in comparison and loses a lot for the ability to be nonreflective. Still, the main reasons I think there's doubts at all is the loss of function/ports for some and the alleged UI lag.

Compare this to say the 3GS vs 4 where the only thing you "lost" was the nice curvy shape...and of course durability with the double glass.

I totally agreed! The Hig res Glossy and rMBP on 1680 is almost identical unless you look closer and right there and then you realized that retina is sharper. That is why I get the Hi-Res glossy without being a beta tester of a Rev A product... again.

 

[wethackrey]

I've seen it, and I really don't like it.

1: I can see through the hinge area. It's very distracting to see my desk surface through that opening.

OK, now I wonder what computer you were looking at that you thought was a Retina MacBook Pro. I'm trying my best to see through the hinge area right now. I even have it held up to my desk lamp at the moment. Unless I look down along the display from the top, I can't see the desk light. I surely cant's see through the hinge from anything like a working angle.

2: Doesn't say "Macbook Pro" below the display. It looks cheap to me.

You're kidding, right. Nothing about this computer looks or feels cheap, in my opinion.

3: The vents on the edges would be blocked if I had one and placed it on my lap. Defeats the point of them really...

Actually you're just wrong on this one. The sides of the case curve up and the vents are on the curve, not the bottom. I have mine on my lap at the moment and the vents are not at all blocked. It also runs a bunch cooler than my previous MacBook Pros, so I can actually use in on my lap.

4: UI lag. My Mid-09 Macbook Pro 15" that only had a 9400m didn't lag that bad in Lion, and ML on the Retina is even worse in some cases.

As I've said many times, this is much ado about nothing. If I work at it, I can recreate the notorious UI lag in Safari. It was never an issue for me in Lion and I can't recreate it at all in Mountain Lion.

5: Anything non-Retina looks awful, and full Retina support is still many years away from what I can tell (by then my cMBP 2012 will be out of date anyways).

First, that statement is only true if you define "awful" to mean "not as awesome as the native retina display." Even Word doesn't look "awful". As for it taking "years" to see retina support, that's just foolish. Have you been watching? There's scores of new retina support announcements every week.

6: Small SSD/big price upgrades. Using the proprietary "blade" SSD wasn't necessary as we now make conventional SSD's much thinner than before, same thing for HDD's. A HDD + SSD or SSD + SSD combo would have still been easily obtainable in the current thickness of the rMBP.

Again, just silly. No commercial form factor 2.5" SSD or HDD would fit in the case of the MBPr, even if you eliminated the battery. And what would be the point of that? You imply that Apple's "blade" is somehow more expensive that other SSDs. If you subtract the price of a third party SSD from the price of the MBPr, you'll see that your argument doesn't hold up.

7: Macsafe 2. I don't care that it's a new connector, that's all fine and dandy. But why the crappy ass T-Style connector again? It's just not a comfortable connection to use.

Oddly enough, I agree with you. While I certainly don't describe the MagSafe 2 as "crapppy ass", I would have preferred that they made it right angle like the later generations of the MagSafe 1. The T-style connector is not as secure as the right angle. It gets disconnected more easily. Just knocked mine out with my knee a few minutes ago. Thankfully, since the MBPr uses very little power, I still have 78% battery after nearly an hour with the charger cable laying on the floor.

This is all based on experience with the rMBP we have where I work. We all took it home for a few days to try out, and I stopped using it the first day. I'm far from a fan of it.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. An honest reading of your list, though, sounds like your grasping at straws.

 

[sofianito]

The non-Retina comes in at $3,199 and is equipped with its maximum 8 GB RAM.

Apple tells it supports only 8GB, but the non-Retina supports extra-officially 16GB. It is the same mobo as the retina. Check OWC for instance, they sell the RAM.

 

[GGJstudios]

Will you be able to replace the disk? No

No? What about the SSDs for the MBA that OWC is making? You think they won't do the same for the MBPR?

Do a poll. Statistics is not an accurate science, it is based on probabilities.
People are still betting and buying on rMBPs knowing there are lag issues. Some owners are so blurred by the retina crispiness that they consider the lags as a minor issues and probably won't return it. They have spent more than $2k and they don't have high expectations about the performance. So, with the mentioned facts, what's the probability these people are not techies? It is likely > 0.5.

Even a poll isn't conclusive. The point is you can't accurately make assumptions about people based on the computer they choose to buy.

Probably, but according to you, you can't say it with any degree of accuracy, as you simply don't know

What other reason would anyone call someone trolling simply because they voice an opposing opinion, if not insecurity?

Do a poll. Ask people what they do prefer?

A) rMBP (not upgradable)
B) cMBP with hires AG (upgradable)
C) cMBP with retina display (upgradable)

Again, a poll is inconclusive. For example, most would consider me to be fairly techie-minded, yet my reason for not preferring the MBPR has nothing to do with its upgradability, or lack thereof. Apple has been moving in the direction of models that are not upgradable or less easy to upgrade for a while now. I don't particularly have a problem with that, as long as I can buy a model that meets my current and foreseeable future needs. I do, however, have a problem with the glare on the retina screen. Others may like or dislike the MBPR based on completely different criteria.

The bottom line is this: you can't make accurate assumptions about people based solely on their computer purchases. There's a lot more to each person than their computer. You can't even make broad assumptions about "most people" based on comments or polls in any internet forum, since most computer users, including Mac users, don't post in such forums. There are roughly 360,000 users who have posted in this forum in the past 5 years. There are an estimated 50 million Mac OS X users. You do the math.

 

[Pentad]

Not to start a silly war but why are most of the "underwhelmed" comments coming from people with a cMBP in their sig?

Umm, since the MBPr was just released, what other MBPs would you expect in the sigs?

As for the the 'underwhelmed' comments, many users are just disappointed in the MBPr and Apple. I think the main issues are price, upgradability, and performance issues (lag/ghosting). I think many were hoping ML would fix the lagging issues but there is only so much software can do. The degree and annoyance are subjective of course but a ~$3k that lags makes some people unhappy.


-P

 

[dmccloud]

People that found the (3rd generation) iPad display to be superior to the iPad/iPad 2 will probably prefer the rMBP. That being said, if you didn't see a lot of difference between the iPads, chances are you won't notice the difference between the cMBP and rMPB either. That's not a matter of being "right" or "wrong", but one of perspective.

For me personally, what little lag issues I saw on my rMBP running Lion were resolved once I upgraded to ML. Even then, the lag issues were limited to browsers not optimized for the Retina display (Firefox, normal version of Chrome), but both Safari and Chrome Canary worked fine on both Lion and ML. The software developers are updating their apps for the new display on a regular basis - I've seen several updates in the last three days that included retina support as one of the new features.

As far as storage expandability is concerned, I picked up a 1.5TB Seagate GoFlex Pro for $120 (has USB 2.0/3.0), and then picked up the GoFlex Thunderbolt adapter for $100. Compared to the 1TB GoFlex with Thunderbolt for $280, I got a bargain. Because the drive is using Thunderbolt for the I/O, the drive is faster then even my old FW800 drive, and I can keep my iTunes library and my photos on it instead of the internal SSD.

There's a lot to like about the rMBP - but it depends more on what you're going to be using it for and how you envision using it down the line than on simply the screen resolution.

 

[KPOM]

Go ahead, set your rMBP on your lap with the power cord in. Or in a tight space. Or move it around. The T-Style was awful. So awful that it wore down much too quickly and there was a very successful lawsuit against Apple for it.

Making the Magsafe 2 a T-Style would be like Ford putting the Pinto 3dr back into production without making a single change to it's fuel system. Bad idea all around.

It's a different T-style now. The problem with the L-style is that it wouldn't fall off easily enough, which defeated the purpose of MagSafe. The idea is that if you trip over the cord, it will disconnect. The L-style often wouldn't do that.

 

[mykelala01]

Not to start a silly war but why are most of the "underwhelmed" comments coming from people with a cMBP in their sig?

Maybe 3 to 4 years from now, we not gonna have this kind of conversation. Right now we are on a transition state. Some people hate changes some people embrace it. What I hate is being beta tester. Buying a product that is half finish. So people are still weighing in their option. If Apple only release one macbook pro which is rMBP alone...like what will Steve Job will do. "Im sure he will phase out uMBP annouce RMBP alone." Everyone who wants to upgrade got no option but to get Retina. But Tim Cook is not Steve.

 

[eagandale4114]

People that found the (3rd generation) iPad display to be superior to the iPad/iPad 2 will probably prefer the rMBP. That being said, if you didn't see a lot of difference between the iPads, chances are you won't notice the difference between the cMBP and rMPB either. That's not a matter of being "right" or "wrong", but one of perspective.

For me personally, what little lag issues I saw on my rMBP running Lion were resolved once I upgraded to ML. Even then, the lag issues were limited to browsers not optimized for the Retina display (Firefox, normal version of Chrome), but both Safari and Chrome Canary worked fine on both Lion and ML. The software developers are updating their apps for the new display on a regular basis - I've seen several updates in the last three days that included retina support as one of the new features.

As far as storage expandability is concerned, I picked up a 1.5TB Seagate GoFlex Pro for $120 (has USB 2.0/3.0), and then picked up the GoFlex Thunderbolt adapter for $100. Compared to the 1TB GoFlex with Thunderbolt for $280, I got a bargain. Because the drive is using Thunderbolt for the I/O, the drive is faster then even my old FW800 drive, and I can keep my iTunes library and my photos on it instead of the internal SSD.

There's a lot to like about the rMBP - but it depends more on what you're going to be using it for and how you envision using it down the line than on simply the screen resolution.

Oh and for storage you could go for a micro SD + nifty sd adapter. itunes stuff would live there perfectly.
PS: It works for r and c MBPs and the MBA

 

[Snesley Wipes]

What someone currently owns has no bearing on their ability to look at new models and decide what they like.

Ya it does...it's called "bias" and "envy"...

 

[minifridge1138]

I have to say I didn't judge the retina display until I saw it in person.

I put a 15" retina display next to a 15" non-retina display.
The resolution was set both to 1680 X 1050.
Then I stared at them.

I didn't really notice a difference. At least not one worth the extra cost.

When cranked up to 2880 X 1800 there was a difference. But I don't like have that many pixels on a 15" screen.

I love have 2560 X 1600 in my 30" ACD. I can't imagine have the same screen resolution crammed into 1/2 the space.


But the real turn off for me is the lack of upgrade-ability. I like to tinker.

I think it's a great laptop. The screen is beautiful, I just wish it was 17" instead of 15".

 

[sofianito]

I'm curios where you came across this significant nugget of information. I assume you're drawing from your wealth of personal experience. I, for one, don't have access to Apple's sales demographics on the MBPr. I can only rely on MY personal experience. I only know four owners of MBPr's, including myself.

Personally, I have owned Mac laptops going back to the Powerbook 120. I've even owned a Mac Portable and more than one Lisa. I founded Apple's first non-storefront dealership and have been an Apple developer for longer than I care to tell you. I've owned six MacBook Pros and Lord knows how many PowerBooks. I put my first SSD in a Mac laptop six years ago. I'm migrating to the MBPr from a 17" MBP which I personally upgraded the HDD and memory on. These days I make my living as a consulting solutions architect on large cloud implementations. So that's one. I don't know where, with your sage widsom, you'd rate me on your "techie" scale, but by any rational measure it would be high.

The second is a friend who's a solutions architect with Cisco. His background is designing large, complex networks and VOIP systems and he's currently a cloud architect working with Cisco's next generation Unified Computing Standard systems. Like me, he's been doing this for a long time. That's two. Again, by any rational measure, a "techie".

The third is the senior technologist in a fast moving "Big Data" company. He knows more about dealing with multiple terabytes of data and state-of-the-art nosql, map-reduce databases than anyone on the planet. That's three. I have to assume he'd make your cut in your definition of "techie".

The fourth is a guy I just met two weeks ago. He runs a marketing company. Not a technologist by trade, but his office is 100% Macintosh and he's used Mac laptops since his first Titanium PowerBook. He was running a beta copy of Mountain Lion on his new MBPr when I met him. He still had the late 15" MBP that preceded it. I'd rate him as a techie, but your standards might be higher than mine. So I'll give you that one.

That makes it three out of four, if not four out of four, owners of MBPr's that I'm personally familiar with are techies. Not that it matters.

Don't you feel embarrassed about claiming in your recent posts that you are an architect. In an other thread, they are calling you Mr Constanza . You should already know that one of the most important pattern in software refactoring and architecture is: DRY (Don't Repeat Yourself). Also, you neither need to use titles nor big corps names to add weight to your argumentations...

Talking about architecture, are you certified in these programs: OpenCA, OpenCITS, TOGAF?. Based on my personal experience, most people who claim they are architects are not certified. They are pre-sales guys who do powerpoint presentations and product demos...

Whether you or your friends work on cloud or nosql databases, you already know that your deployments, IAAS and PAAS are on remote machines stacked in racks. You only need a browser and a terminal window to run an SSH to do your job. Honestly, do you require an rMBP to do your job? Do you use an rMBP at work and did your company purchased it for you?

It's incredibly arrogant, and just plain wrong, to suggest that someone who chooses a non-retina MacBook Pro simply knows better.

If your retina is that crisp, you should have read that I used the adjective "Most".

Hey, I don't begrudge you your favoring a "classic" MacBook Pro. You're entitled to your learned opinion. I would, however, suggest that you get them while you can. They won't be around much longer.

Probably. However, because of the issues observed in this first release of retina, I do not consider it as a success story... In next revisions, they'll probably do better...

[And, by the way, I changed my own oil on my Jaguar XKR. I don't work on the supercharger though. I leave that to professionals.]

Good for you . Based on my own observations, people who drive Jaguar cars are not that young

 

[sofianito]

The bottom line is this: you can't make accurate assumptions about people based solely on their computer purchases. There's a lot more to each person than their computer. You can't even make broad assumptions about "most people" based on comments or polls in any internet forum, since most computer users, including Mac users, don't post in such forums. There are roughly 360,000 users who have posted in this forum in the past 5 years. There are an estimated 50 million Mac OS X users. You do the math.

Surveys are used to make statistical inferences about the population. You don't need to target the 50M Mac users to perform the survey...

 

[flipnap]

did not impress me nearly as much as apple would lead one to believe via its advertising

to be honest, i havent seen all that much advertising for it, and the stuff i did see didnt say anymore than apple usually says about their stuff when they make an ad. I think you are confusing apple advertising with hype on these forums.. i didnt see any ads with Jesus coming out of the clouds to proclaim this as the best machine to ever walk the earth.. maybe i dont watch enough TV or something..

 

[GGJstudios]

What someone currently owns has no bearing on their ability to look at new models and decide what they like.

Ya it does...it's called "bias" and "envy"...

It seems like you haven't read the entire discussion, as your response makes no sense. A person can be biased or have envy, regardless of what computer they own, or even if they don't own any. They are still able to look at new models and decide what they like, regardless of their decision criteria, regardless of any computer they own or have owned or don't own, and regardless of any envy or bias they have.

 

[sofianito]

I bought a rMBP because it is the best Macbook available and when I upgrade I only get the best, since it lasts the longest and returns the most money when I sell it.

What makes you think it lasts the longest? and how much (in percentage) do you think you can sell it in 3 years?

 

[GGJstudios]

Surveys are used to make statistical inferences about the population. You don't need to target the 50M Mac users to perform the survey...

And yet targeting the segment of those users that frequent internet forums is less likely to be representative of Mac users in general, as those who frequent forums are more likely to be technically oriented, if not more technically aware, than the average computer user.

If you like the MBPR, buy it. If you don't, don't. It makes no difference what opinions others may have, since they don't have to live with your decision. You can't make accurate assumptions about me or anyone, based solely on our preferences for computers.

 

[mac jones]

I like mine as i'm so very tired of taking off those little screws to fiddle inside, and stress out taking out the DVD drive (ain't fun) and swapping drives, RAM, etc.

Apple has made it easy for me. Thank you Apple

Note: I haven't even opened it up, not once!

 

[Hungry&Foolish]

And yet targeting the segment of those users that frequent internet forums is less likely to be representative of Mac users in general, as those who frequent forums are more likely to be technically oriented, if not more technically aware, than the average computer user.

If you like the MBPR, buy it. If you don't, don't. It makes no difference what opinions others may have, since they don't have to live with your decision. You can't make accurate assumptions about me or anyone, based solely on our preferences for computers.

I agree with ggj. I just got the retina Mac coz I liked the screen, I am an average computer user who would never be too keen to open the computer to upgrade. pass it to somebody in the family in a few years and buy a new Mac.

 

[chisasba]

I like the MBPR, I didn't get to try everything out on it but it seemed fine. I'd buy a 13" if I was in the market for one. I don't care much for the ODD, I have an external one if I absolutely needed it. I like the HDMI, it's annoying using an adapter. I use the ethernet occasionally but rather not have it and keep it slimmer. I don't care much for 2 TB ports, but that may change when there's more things out that use it.

...
2: Doesn't say "Macbook Pro" below the display. It looks cheap to me.
...
6: Small SSD/big price upgrades. Using the proprietary "blade" SSD wasn't necessary as we now make conventional SSD's much thinner than before, same thing for HDD's. A HDD + SSD or SSD + SSD combo would have still been easily obtainable in the current thickness of the rMBP.

7: Macsafe 2. I don't care that it's a new connector, that's all fine and dandy. But why the crappy ass T-Style connector again? It's just not a comfortable connection to use.

2. Does it look cheap because it doesn't say MBP? If so, I find that funny...reminds me of the people that will only buy a Honda because it says Acura on it.

6. I somewhat agree with you on this. I think the Apple price tag for memory is way too much any way you look at it. I don't really care about not being able to upgrade it but memory shouldn't cost more than 10% above market price for the same thing.

7. I actually prefer the T style. This newer one always gets caught in the hinge, never happened with the T style. And this one doesn't pull out as easily, almost had it fall because of it.

 

[leman]

Side by side?

I looked at them side by side and the retina makes the AG look washed out and just plain terrible. I was going to return my retina and buy a MBP with an AG screen but decided to take my retina to the Apple Store and place it next to an AG MBP. Looking at one and going to another table to look at the other one at the store doesn't give as true a comparison as placing them next to each other. When I did that it wasn't even close. The AG looked horrible next to the retina.

My experience is the same. I went to an apple store with my MBP and spent lots of time doing side by side comparisons. Everything looks much better on the rMBP for me, including non-retina optimized content (web images etc.). As for the lag, I didn't notice anything substantial (there is slight lag, but it was also present on any other apple computer I tried)