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I asked first.

No, because I was specifically talking about the giant price difference between the quad core Mac and doing an equivalent machine on a PC. That's why I mentioned the 2500 dollar price point, which I assumed would be quite clear. The dual proc starts at 3200 or so.

I believe what you did is referred too as a "straw man argument."
 
You know what. Lets just withhold judgement until this stuff is announced. We are basing all this on a TEXT add that appeared on google. I think this really has little actual validity at the end of the day.
 
But, it wont perform NEARLY AS WELL. The iMac would smoke it in probably all categories. It is how OSX uses the hardware that makes macs so good.

I can't find a digital video converter priced under many thousands $$ that DOESN'T rely on Firewire 400, which Apple has completely abandoned.

400>800 adapters do not work for video capture. USB devices drop frames and have terrible artifacts. The only option for decent quality video input is a MacPro equipped with Hollywood-budget solutions.
 
I can't find a digital video converter priced under many thousands $$ that DOESN'T rely on Firewire 400, which Apple has completely abandoned.

800>400 adapters do not work for video capture. USB devices drop frames and have terrible artifacts. The only option for decent quality video input is a MacPro equipped with Hollywood-budget solutions.

I've used a Firewire 800->400 Cable from OWC and captured DV without issue into Final Cut Pro.
 
If only you understood. Windows takes way more hardware to run efficiently than a mac. Which is what I am saying. And as my previous 18 posts I stated. I have windows 7 on my laptop, and I hate it.

I'm pretty sure I understand quite well, and that you are simply wrong. There is no need to be emotional about it. Windows 7 runs beautifully on thousands of hardware configurations, and is quite zippy. It does not take "way more hardware" to run efficiently.

I actually happen to make my living through "computer work" and hold a degree in computer science from a major university. I know this stuff pretty well. What you are saying is simply wrong. Snow Leopard is not all that great of an OS unfortunately. It is fairly embarrassing how many bugs and problems it has considering the extremely limited hardware options it has to run on. Windows and Linux run on thousands of configurations very very well. Apple can't even get their what...5 models or so to behave correctly? It just doesn't bode well for where this is going.

What I don't understand is why some of you continue to defend Apple no matter what they do or offer to us? It reminds me of an abused woman who refuses to say anything bad about her abuser because "I know he loves me." Everyone else can see how BAD they are, but not the person getting beaten. That's what many of you act like. Apple is screwing their customer. Do you really think buying the current iMac isn't a gigantic rip off?

You guys realize there wouldn't even be a controversy if Apple just offered semi acceptable hardware right? The reason there are even arguments taking place is because it's so freakin bad. Just think about it. No one argues about this stuff on any other platform.
 
I can't find a digital video converter priced under many thousands $$ that DOESN'T rely on Firewire 400, which Apple has completely abandoned.

800>400 adapters do not work for video capture. USB devices drop frames and have terrible artifacts. The only option for decent quality video input is a MacPro equipped with Hollywood-budget solutions.

The other option is for the 3rd part vendors to start using Firewire 800.. It is faster you know. I see no reason why they can't do this other than not wanting to spend any money.
 
You know what. Lets just withhold judgement until this stuff is announced. We are basing all this on a TEXT add that appeared on google. I think this really has little actual validity at the end of the day.

I can agree to that. They could end up upgrading the internals and make it a great machine, we really don't know. You're right.
 
I'm pretty sure I understand quite well, and that you are simply wrong. There is no need to be emotional about it. Windows 7 runs beautifully on thousands of hardware configurations, and is quite zippy. It does not take "way more hardware" to run efficiently.

I actually happen to make my living through "computer work" and hold a degree in computer science from a major university. I know this stuff pretty well. What you are saying is simply wrong. Snow Leopard is not all that great of an OS unfortunately. It is fairly embarrassing how many bugs and problems it has considering the extremely limited hardware options it has to run on. Windows and Linux run on thousands of configurations very very well. Apple can't even get their what...5 models or so to behave correctly? It just doesn't bode well for where this is going.

What I don't understand is why some of you continue to defend Apple no matter what they do or offer to us? It reminds me of an abused woman who refuses to say anything bad about her abuser because "I know he loves me." Everyone else can see how BAD they are, but not the person getting beaten. That's what many of you act like. Apple is screwing their customer. Do you really think buying the current iMac isn't a gigantic rip off?

You guys realize there wouldn't even be a controversy if Apple just offered semi acceptable hardware right? The reason there are even arguments taking place is because it's so freakin bad. Just think about it. No one argues about this stuff on any other platform.

You should take a pill.
 
I'm pretty sure I understand quite well, and that you are simply wrong. There is no need to be emotional about it. Windows 7 runs beautifully on thousands of hardware configurations, and is quite zippy. It does not take "way more hardware" to run efficiently.

I actually happen to make my living through "computer work" and hold a degree in computer science from a major university. I know this stuff pretty well. What you are saying is simply wrong. Snow Leopard is not all that great of an OS unfortunately. It is fairly embarrassing how many bugs and problems it has considering the extremely limited hardware options it has to run on. Windows and Linux run on thousands of configurations very very well. Apple can't even get their what...5 models or so to behave correctly? It just doesn't bode well for where this is going.

What I don't understand is why some of you continue to defend Apple no matter what they do or offer to us? It reminds me of an abused woman who refuses to say anything bad about her abuser because "I know he loves me." Everyone else can see how BAD they are, but not the person getting beaten. That's what many of you act like. Apple is screwing their customer. Do you really think buying the current iMac isn't a gigantic rip off?

You guys realize there wouldn't even be a controversy if Apple just offered semi acceptable hardware right? The reason there are even arguments taking place is because it's so freakin bad. Just think about it. No one argues about this stuff on any other platform.

Its so bad. I forgot. That is why Macs are seen as premium machines, meant for video editing and music and what not, thats why they sell like hot cakes/ waffles.
 
OpenCL isn't a replacement for more CPUs. It is wonderful though.

Hi Greg;

OpenCL will be great for apps that can leverage the GPU but unfortunately not all apps can. However as things firm up in the GPGPU community a GPU accelerated app will put the old Crays to shame. The OpenCL world is just getting started though and Nvidias Fermi should get things rolling. It is just important to realize that a lot of appps that can leverage GCD will never touch a GPU.


Speaking of Apple's technologies in Snow Leopard it seems you are forgetting about another huge one. OpenCL.
I didn't forget because it means far less to the average user than having the optimal number of CPAus does. OpenCL is fantastic for the apps that can leverage it but not all will.
Once OpenCL comes into it's own you will be better off putting multiple graphics cards in your computer than cores.
The question is what apps will leverage multiple GPU cards in a Mac. Some will I know this, but that doesn't imply most will.

Besides OpenCL suitable hardware is still maturing. Fermi will be the first series of GPUs design with a strong focus on OpenCL like usage. So I don't expect OpenCL to come all that quick, it is a tech that will slowly mature outside of the already known big wins.
GCD is minor as far as i'm concerned when comparing to the potential of OpenCL.
This is simply wrong without being qualified. The potential for good exploitation of those GPU resources is highly dependant on the problem at hand. Some things GPUs just don't do well or don't do well on current hardware. Basically to get these often quote wondeful results, you have to have a problem that fits the hardware well.
So instead of complaining about the lack of cores in a machine people will start to realize that processors should've and could've plateaued at core 2 duo while increasing the number of graphics cards instead.

this is simply wrong and doesn't even acknowledge how computers work. GPU computing is extremely limited in what it can do. Where as putting a quad core into a machine can benefit the user in multiple ways. Not only would a Quad core help those highly threaded apps it benefits the system outside of the app currently getting user attention. Plus your statements fly in the face of research that indicates that the SMP plateau will be hit at a much higher core count.

I really don't think you realize how GPU computing works with respect to the system and what those GPUs are optimized to do. GPU computing is great for certain sorts of math heavy computations or highly parallel operations. Give a GPU a branch bit of non parallel math and it will often end up being slower than an Intel CPU. I'd suggest going to Mac Research dot org and looking at some of the podcasts there.


Dave
 
You can buy dual CPU system for 1000 bucks?

The $2499 Mac Pro is not a dual CPU system. The Mac Pro doesn’t become a dual CPU system until $3299.

And yes, you can buy a PC equivalent in performance to the $2499 Mac Pro for around $1,000. Since the $2499 Mac Pro uses one of the cheapest XEON processors on the market, the w3520, a processor that retails for around $310 and is practically the same as Core i7 920 (which retails for $279).
 
"iMac: Ultra Thin 20 & 24 inch models. From only € 1099. Apple Store"

Damn there goes my hopes for a 30" iMac :rolleyes:
 
Its so bad. I forgot. That is why Macs are seen as premium machines, meant for video editing and music and what not, thats why they sell like hot cakes/ waffles.

Macs sell so much for video editing and music because of the bang for your buck software not the hardware.
 
Besides OpenCL suitable hardware is still maturing. Fermi will be the first series of GPUs design with a strong focus on OpenCL like usage. So I don't expect OpenCL to come all that quick, it is a tech that will slowly mature outside of the already known big wins.
I know OpenCL is still maturing. As of right now very few applications actually use GCD in a way that's actually useful or OpenCL(if any). They are both in their very early stages and I doubt we will see any real use of both of them until 10.7 comes around.

this is simply wrong and doesn't even acknowledge how computers work. GPU computing is extremely limited in what it can do. Where as putting a quad core into a machine can benefit the user in multiple ways. Not only would a Quad core help those highly threaded apps it benefits the system outside of the app currently getting user attention. Plus your statements fly in the face of research that indicates that the SMP plateau will be hit at a much higher core count.

I really don't think you realize how GPU computing works with respect to the system and what those GPUs are optimized to do. GPU computing is great for certain sorts of math heavy computations or highly parallel operations. Give a GPU a branch bit of non parallel math and it will often end up being slower than an Intel CPU. I'd suggest going to Mac Research dot org and looking at some of the podcasts there.
I've done plenty of research on the matter. I never said they wouldn't plateau at a higher rate the way things are going right now. I realize plenty how GPU computing works. I don't need to read anymore on it. Im proposing that you leave the intel core 2 duo do the the non parallel math and leave the rest up to the gpu.
 
This is the most worthless post I've ever read on this site. Those Google ads are unreliable, and most of them are scams, so how is this proof of anything? We don't need any proof anyway. We already knew they are coming. If not this month, then the next. They always come out this time of year. Then once they're released, we wait for the new MBPs.

"iMac: Ultra Thin 20 & 24 inch models. From only € 1099. Apple Store"

I called it. They are just going to make it thinner. I doubt anything else will be upgraded besides the keyboard, mouse and remote alongside it. Glad I purchased my iMac in June, seeing as how I really couldn't care less on how thin it is.

I'm sure there will be an upgrade in performance capacity as well. There always is...possibly a blu-ray option this time. I know 4 months sounds like a long time, but I would have waited if I were you.

"iMac: Ultra Thin 20 & 24 inch models. From only € 1099. Apple Store"

Damn there goes my hopes for a 30" iMac :rolleyes:

a 30 inch imac? lol good grief!
 
I'm sure there will be an upgrade in performance capacity as well. There always is...possibly a blu-ray option this time. I know 4 months sounds like a long time, but I would have waited if I were you.
Waited for what? An upgrade in performance capacity and Blu-Ray?
I have a Blu-Ray player in my media room. One is enough.

Oh and my Macbook Pro was and still is on the fritz. It won't connect to the internet, the battery is completely dead, the charger is fried and the warranty is up. No way in hell was I going to wait 5 months for a useable computer.
 
I'm sure there will be an upgrade in performance capacity as well. There always is...possibly a blu-ray option this time. I know 4 months sounds like a long time, but I would have waited if I were you.

Gruber is saying no Blu-ray. The last year he's been pretty right on concerning hardware.

http://daringfireball.net/linked/2009/10/04/ixnay-bluray

My updated if-I-were-a-betting-man wagers for upcoming Apple hardware announcements: all-new iMacs, all-new low-end (plastic) MacBook, new keyboard and mouse, speed-bump/price-cut Mac Mini update. Scratch that previous bet on Blu-ray in the iMacs, though — the old word on the street was that it was in; new word is that it’s out. Hope you like the iTunes Store if you like HD movies. Rumors that the new mouse has some sort of integrated touchpad dingus to replace the scroller ball are sounding good.
 
Gruber is saying no Blu-ray. The last year he's been pretty right on concerning hardware.

http://daringfireball.net/linked/2009/10/04/ixnay-bluray

Wow...such useful information. Really, these analysts know nothing that we don't.

I also am not expecting blu-ray yet. My biggest issue with this is that it is holding back blu-ray ripping development on the Mac side of things (until recently anyway) and that itunes does not have a good selection of HD movies for purchase, which is pathetic at this point. iTunes extra is great, but I don't want to buy SD movies anymore (not that I buy a lot anyway, but it should be the standard by now).
 
If only you understood. Windows takes way more hardware to run efficiently than a mac. Which is what I am saying. And as my previous 18 posts I stated. I have windows 7 on my laptop, and I hate it.

I'm trying to figure out how you managed to make Windows 7 require more hardware. That's almost a feat.
 
My biggest issue with this is that it is holding back blu-ray ripping development on the Mac side of things (until recently anyway) and that itunes does not have a good selection of HD movies for purchase, which is pathetic at this point. iTunes extra is great, but I don't want to buy SD movies anymore (not that I buy a lot anyway, but it should be the standard by now).

Blu-ray ripping? Who is doing that these days? Sure you can say video editors but that is a minority at best. Not to mention the cost of blu-ray discs. Though I will say that HD movies on iTunes are a joke compared to a blu-ray. Though I imagine you watch movies on something besides your computer, in which case you can just get a blu-ray player, but that's beside the point.

I'm not expecting it either, but it doesn't hurt to have the option.
 
Blu-ray ripping? Who is doing that these days? Sure you can say video editors but that is a minority at best. Not to mention the cost of blu-ray discs. Though I will say that HD movies on iTunes are a joke compared to a blu-ray. Though I imagine you watch movies on something besides your computer, in which case you can just get a blu-ray player, but that's beside the point.

I'm not expecting it either, but it doesn't hurt to have the option.

Haven't you heard of Handbrake?
 
"iMac: Ultra Thin 20 & 24 inch models. From only € 1099. Apple Store"

Damn there goes my hopes for a 30" iMac :rolleyes:

They aren't going to change the 3-level pricing motif, and I doubt the largest iMac would be "ultra thin".

There will likely be a new display at 2048 x 1152 resolution. Not 30-inches, but bigger than 24.
 
Remember also that neither Arrandale nor the i7 Mobile can use NVIDIA's 9400M (integrated-graphics chip set that is used in today's low-end iMacs). Thus, this makes the "best" hardware choices a bit more complex or difficult.

I think you just answered your own question. There will be no quad-core update of any Macs this year based on that statement.
 
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