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Online Apple Store is Out of iPhones

Calling the current iPhone's camera a good one in comparison to other cellphones is more than a little off. 5 megapixel cellphone cameras have been produced for about four years. The iPhone's current camera is way behind.

The vast majority of reviews have stated that the camera was sub-par. (Actually every since one I've ever read has, I just leave it open that there may be a few that say otherwise that I haven't seen.) The pictures above, once again, prove that the camera is sub-par to a cellphone's camera that is over 3 years old and on its original release, before any discount, cost under $250. Let it go. I know this is a rumor site, and I know we love Apple, but calling this a good cellphone camera in relation to dozens of others at the same and much lower price points is incorrect.

On the actual topic... more than 48 hours later and still no iPhones available. This week is looking more and more possible.
 
BongoBanger said:
True, however to describe a phone that is only 2cm thick as 'brick like' is absurd.

As pointed out, there are plenty of 13-15mm thick phones with 3.2 to 5mp cameras which totally debunks the argument that Apple were trying to compromise between form and function with the iPhone's camera.

Which was rather the point, was it not?
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I'm not sure what you've debunked, unless you have a phone the same size as the iPhone or smaller, with the same screen size or larger, with a screen as bright or brighter, and with battery life the same or longer. Unless you can put all of those things together, it's quite reasonable to suggest that the iPhone's camera is indeed a compromise.
 
ibwb said:
I'm not sure what you've debunked, unless you have a phone the same size as the iPhone or smaller, with the same screen size or larger, with a screen as bright or brighter, and with battery life the same or longer. Unless you can put all of those things together, it's quite reasonable to suggest that the iPhone's camera is indeed a compromise.
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Err... no. The suggestion was that the iPhone's form was the reason why it had a 2mp camera. This clearly not the case.
 
BongoBanger said:
Err... no. The suggestion was that the iPhone's form was the reason why it had a 2mp camera. This clearly not the case.
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I think the reason for the no high spec camera in the iPhone is because its only there because it would be impossible to sell a expensive smartphone without one these days.
 
nyquist11 said:
Are you sure that they have been around for 4 years... couls you mean in the uk and asia; I don't remember seeing them for that long.:confused:
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I worked for Samsung in '04 and we had 5 megapixel cameras. They weren't available through the major carriers in the US but they were in Asia.
 
benmrii said:
Calling the current iPhone's camera a good one in comparison to other cellphones is more than a little off. 5 megapixel cellphone cameras have been produced for about four years. The iPhone's current camera is way behind.

The vast majority of reviews have stated that the camera was sub-par. (Actually every since one I've ever read has, I just leave it open that there may be a few that say otherwise that I haven't seen.) The pictures above, once again, prove that the camera is sub-par to a cellphone's camera that is over 3 years old and on its original release, before any discount, cost under $250. Let it go. I know this is a rumor site, and I know we love Apple, but calling this a good cellphone camera in relation to dozens of others at the same and much lower price points is incorrect.
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trevelyn said:
I did not wish to start a war and highjack this thread! haha. But for the sake of settling my original argument, and that I would very much indeed like to see an improvement over the existing iPhone camera. Here is a small comparison of the iPhone camera and my old 4 year old Sony Ericsson W31S AU by KDDI phone. Which is a better photo?
*SNIP*

Now, my point for this is not bashing the iPhone camera. I am merely stating that I would very much like to see a better quality camera in the iphone. My W31S battery life lasts longer than the iPhone, but it is also just a bit thicker, too. I am certain Apple could implement better camera technology into the iphone and still have decent battery life. However, I do love my iPhone to pieces. ;) :apple:
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Compile 'em all said:
Right. And they carry their SLR with them everywhere they go in their pockets :rolleyes:. No. Not everyone with an iPhone has an SLR nor everyone with a blackberry has one. A camera in a phone has proven to be important enough of a feature that Apple HAD to include it in the iPhone. And yeah, there are many phones with way better cams than that in the iPhone. Re-read winterspan's post for a proper response.
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BongoBanger said:
Rubbish. People used to carry around disposable Kodak cameras rather than state of the art Canons or Nikons for their holiday snaps. A reasonably decent camera is plenty for most people and 3.2Mp to 5Mp with video seems to be the sweet spot.
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Thank you guys for contributing more info and your opinions. I was beginning to be the only 'heretic' that didn't worship the iPhone's camera and believe Apple can do better for such an expensive device. :eek: I don't buy the argument about form factor either. Granted, the iPhone is indeed quite thin, and also has to contend with a large cache of flash memory and large battery, but I guarantee Apple could and should have done better. I'm not talking about a 20X zoom lens with a APS-C sensor. But 2 megapixels, no flash, no zoom, no autofocus, ? Surely they can do better. Optics are always going to be small and cheap and take mediocre shots, but there are plenty of very small and thin Japanese/Korean phones that take excellent pictures.

On a side note, does anyone remember that lens technology development that replaced a mechanical zoom lens with a flexible-membrane system that was able to act as a zoom lens by deforming the transparent water-filled membrane and thus changing the refraction? That kind of thing would be awesome in an iPhone.. I bet Apple surprises us with something clever like that!


PowerFullMac said:
I think the reason for the no high spec camera in the iPhone is because its only there because it would be impossible to sell a expensive smartphone without one these days.
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Indeed, THAT is the problem. Obviously Apple doesn't consider the camera to be important. They didn't even include auto-focus or a rudimentary flash capability, not to mention absolutely zero video recording support. I hope they change this attitude. This is an important feature for many people, especially outside the United States where people are used to getting very high-end Nokia, Sony Ericsson, et al camera/media phones ($500-$700) for FREE on contact.. and Even more so in the future as phone cameras get better and people quit using point-and-shoots for quick, unimportant photos.


nyquist11 said:
Are you sure that they have been around for 4 years... couls you mean in the uk and asia; I don't remember seeing them for that long.:confused:
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Europe and ESPECIALLY Japan/Korea/Singapore/Taiwan have had much better cell phone for the last 5 years than anything in the United States, especially in regards to camera quality.
 
benmrii said:
Calling the current iPhone's camera a good one in comparison to other cellphones is more than a little off. 5 megapixel cellphone cameras have been produced for about four years. The iPhone's current camera is way behind.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that the photos taken with that Japanese camera is also a 2 megapixel camera.

Most people think that the more mega pixels a camera has the better the camera it must be. This is entirely untrue. Most people that buy point and shoot cameras or use cellphone cameras do not really need much over 2-5 mega pixels. Anything above that is just a gimmick for the most part. Kinda reminds me of those old crappy station wagons from the 80s. The standard model had 4 wheels, blue carpet upholstery and genuine imitation leather dash for $6,000 brand new. But if you want the "upgrade". get the model up from it for only $7499.99. It comes with 4 wheels, blue carpet upholstery, genuine imitation leather dash and a cool emblem of some deer glued to the passenger side dash.

So same thing can really be said about all this hype about cellphones having 5-10 mega pixel cameras in them. It's not the amount of pixels that matters, but the size of each of them on the CCD and the quality of the sensor. Just because a sensor thats the size of a nail head thats 8 mega pixels doesn't mean it's any good. :p
 
maybe apple underestimated the cameras importance??????
its is a terrible camera and for folks who care about such things could be the deal breaker but for my self and loads of others I'm not really bothered if it has 2, 3 or 5 million pixels...................but
if you could shoot video and directly upload it to youtube or even your .mac then that would be cool!!!
 
winterspan said:
On a side note, does anyone remember that lens technology development that replaced a mechanical zoom lens with a flexible-membrane system that was able to act as a zoom lens by deforming the transparent water-filled membrane and thus changing the refraction? That kind of thing would be awesome in an iPhone.. I bet Apple surprises us with something clever like that!
Click to expand...

Hmm... I don't think that would fit very well in the keynote. :p

jobs-keynote.jpg
 
trevelyn said:
So same thing can really be said about all this hype about cellphones having 5-10 mega pixel cameras in them. It's not the amount of pixels that matters, but the size of each of them on the CCD and the quality of the sensor. Just because a sensor thats the size of a nail head thats 8 mega pixels doesn't mean it's any good. :p
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Well, yes, but the sweet spot is generally put at about 3-5mp as Mossberg's article points out:

http://www.smartmoney.com/mossberg/index.cfm?story=november2004

2mp isn't enough for decent image quality which is why most camera phones are at least 3.2mp these days. Most of them have superior optics as well - such as the N Series Carl Zeiss lenses.

The iPhone's camera is an afterthought. It's not a primary feature as it is on other devices.
 
I think that this thread has been hijacked. I for one would appreciate having it back on topic. You guys could start a thread (as if there aren't any) on Apple's camera and cell phone cameras.
 
Fair enough, I'm sure one of the mods will split it out if necessary.

Oh, and since you're new I should point out that hijacking happens a lot.

In fact it's normal. :D
 
BongoBanger said:
Fair enough, I'm sure one of the mods will split it out if necessary.

Oh, and since you're new I should point out that hijacking happens a lot.

In fact it's normal. :D
Click to expand...

Hah! Next time I have the urge to rant about a specific thing while visiting a posting that has nothing to do about what I have in mind, I'll start my own thread from now on. :D

And to go back on topic... C'mon new gen iPhone! I dropped mine today and scratched the screen a bit. It's time to buy a new one. Fortunately, I do have a bit of patience. I think I can wait another 30 days.
 
trevelyn said:
Keep in mind that the photos taken with that Japanese camera is also a 2 megapixel camera.

Most people think that the more mega pixels a camera has the better the camera it must be. This is entirely untrue. Most people that buy point and shoot cameras or use cellphone cameras do not really need much over 2-5 mega pixels. Anything above that is just a gimmick for the most part. Kinda reminds me of those old crappy station wagons from the 80s. The standard model had 4 wheels, blue carpet upholstery and genuine imitation leather dash for $6,000 brand new. But if you want the "upgrade". get the model up from it for only $7499.99. It comes with 4 wheels, blue carpet upholstery, genuine imitation leather dash and a cool emblem of some deer glued to the passenger side dash.

So same thing can really be said about all this hype about cellphones having 5-10 mega pixel cameras in them. It's not the amount of pixels that matters, but the size of each of them on the CCD and the quality of the sensor. Just because a sensor thats the size of a nail head thats 8 mega pixels doesn't mean it's any good. :p
Click to expand...

Yes, that is true, but I guess everyone just assumes that a cellphone with a 5 megapixel camera most likely will have a camera with better optics/lens, digital processing, firmware, etc. It's probably best to just say "higher quality" or "better" camera. I mean, you can go much deeper if you want, to discussing sensor size, sensor type and architecture, optics system, lens, image processing DSPs, firmware, etc.
 
NewtypeCJ said:
This is interesting. Perhaps the fact that Apple PR commented at all means there won't be an announcement tomorrow.
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I seriously doubt Apple is dumb enough to have a drought of iPhone sales at ANY time during this year. Sales of V1 iPhone have not spiked in recent weeks (have they?) so I'm sure they've had plenty of information to accurately forecast demand for the V1 models before V2 comes out.

Anything less than 10 million sales in 2008 is egg on Steve's face. He may need that extra month of 3G to hit that target and he's pushing them out the door ASAP. I can see him in his santa cap now, holding the 10 millionth iPhone well before the last day of the year.

Can you imagine him telling shareholders "Well, the reason we didn't hit 10 million is because we ran out of stock of the old model before the new one came out! No, there was no supply problem, no spike in demand, no problem with distribution. Just an estimate error on a spreadsheet!" He'd be crucified by the market!

Announce them tomorrow, and I'll be at the Apple store at 9:00! As long as they have BT modem support and my existing data contract transfers over.
 
coolant113 said:
THIS IS AEWSOME!!!. they are probally putting the new iphone up there.. I Hope SOOOO!!..... I bet you dollars to donuts that the Apple site goes down for matience tomorrow and BOOM! there it will be the new iPhone!!... Pure Beauty that will change cell phone desing standard once again.. and blow everybodys minds away!!! :apple::apple:
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I just hope it doesn't scratch like the old iPods...
 
Mega pixels are for suckers. Unless you are blowing up to poster size, 2-3 is all you need. Optics are what make the difference and cell phones will never have a chance against even pocket camera optics let alone SLRs.
But if you look at the posts on this sight of pics taken with the iPhone they are very good. I have taken quite a few high quality shots with the iPhone camera even before the software upgrade. There are tricks and you need great light but I am very happy with the camera. It was a great placement of quality vs economy of use.
Most people who use cell phone cams don't care about quality and if they do they use a better camera.
It's a moot point.
 
megfilmworks said:
Most people who use cell phone cams don't care about quality and if they do they use a better camera.
It's a moot point.
Click to expand...

*Sigh*

Not really since most of the major manufacturers recognize that a 3.2 to 5 Mp camera with flash and video recording functionality is expected these days. Like I said, it's the sweet spot that counts.
 
Well all I can is relate my experience. I have an old Fuji Finepix 2650 digital point and shoot camera from 3-4 years ago. It's a 2 megapixel camera. I only use it on the 1 megapixel setting. The pictures turn out so clear that people comment. The pictures taken on that camera on 1 mp are better than the 2mp iphone pictures- I can clearly see the difference over many pictures.

But this is to be expected, it's a phone camera. Clearly megapixels are not the whole story of how good the picture is. I don't see the need for more megapixels. If they want to increase the quality of the camera on the iphone, I think they would have to introduce better optics, which would require putting in something similar to what is on the n95, and make the iphone quite a bit thicker probably. Is it worth it? Probably not to many people.
 
Just throwing out another possibility here since this thread seems to be slacking up and not going rumor crazy so far today ;)

Several people have made comments that despite the iPhone shortage, there's still a lot of things pointing to a June release, such as the block of time where AT&T employees can't take vacation, the SDK release, etc. What if we take a slightly different look at those "indicators"?

First of all, it's been said before and I tend to agree that it's entirely possible that the updated iPhone could come out before the 2.0 software update and just have, say, a 1.1.5 firmware update that the current versions won't get since it'll enable 3G, and possibly add a GPS button if that gets in there. That alone could be feasible for a May release.

As for the time block of no vacations for AT&T employees? All the memo stated was that it was for an "exciting Summer Promotional Launch". We all assume this to be the iPhone since we know an updated version is coming out... but this could instead potentially be a reference to some entirely new product altogether, such as a touchscreen tablet or whatever else they might be cooking up.

So basically, there's nothing saying they HAVE to wait until that time frame in June to release the new iPhone, as the "evidence" is being read how some of us want it to be read, instead of realizing that it's not necessarily talking about the iPhone.
 
Yes getting back to the topic, I can see Apple maybe going ahead and announcing the next iphone this week, and start taking preorders, with it coming out during the AT&T no-vacation period. I just can't see them going a whole month saying "sorry, it's unavailable".

I'm wondering if there really is a product shortage, either they can't get them from the manufacturer for some reason right now (possibly due to the manufacturer switching their lines over to produce the new iphone), or releasing it in many places worldwide is causing a big shortage in supply.

Or another thought, maybe both reasons- maybe they think they need sooo many of the new iphones for a worldwide product launch, that they've told the manufacturer "quit producing the old one, use every available resource to produce as many new ones as possible"?
 
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