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There are so many Linux distros that you can run on any PC. Even a PC from 1998. You can't on a Mac. Not even PowerMac
There are distros that offer up to date web browsers. You can even run distros on 20 year old computers and they be up to date. Except Apple Silicon of course.
And looking PC to Mac price ratio you get so much more for the value of PC. More storage, more ram, more everything.
No debating long term usability or affordability, just support from original OS with automatic updates, ease of use, and current premium applications.

You and I might be able to use a Linux distribution on an old PC but not my 80 year old Dad.

I see value in all sorts of computers, from my Raspberry Pi to my new M4 Mac Mini desktop with nice big monitor.
 
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It is indeed a case of when you buy a Mac as to how many years of security updates you might get, because my 2017 iMac (which I acquired that same year) continued to receive security updates to the very end of its usable life for my workflow. I upgraded to a 2024 Mac mini several months ago. However, at this upgrade cycle, I chose the base configuration with 16 GB RAM (same as my 2017 iMac) but I upgraded the SSD to 1 TB. The point here is that I made a judgement call and decided to stay at 16 GB RAM for this upgrade cycle, which may or may not force an earlier upgrade cycle (although I have since discovered that Apple Silicon is a lot smarter at memory management than the outgoing x86 Macs, and the system appears to find ways to reduce memory pressure when you least expect it). Again, the point is, I made a judgement call which is no different to the judgement call you made in buying an older computer on eBay (and thereby saving money). In any case, if you buy an older machine, it is reasonable to expect that it won't be supported for as long as it might if you bought the same model in the first year of its release.

As far as I know, security updates for macOS 13 end this year, so for me, that represented 8 years of support for my 2017 iMac. I literally had to upgrade because the i5-7500 processor was becoming a bottleneck for my workflow. However, that particular iMac was sold until 2019, so if I had bought it a few years later, then maybe I would feel somewhat differently. In this day and age, it seems reasonable to expect a computer to be supported for at least 7 years from the date on which it is discontinued by the manufacturer.

The PC market is now highly mature, and the performance of most computers are now rapidly exceeding the base requirements of modern system software by a large margin. It used to be the complete opposite, of course. Imagine trying to run the latest system software on a 1999 computer in 2008. Now imagine trying to run the latest system software on a 1989 computer in 1997. Mind bogglingly impossible. The PC market has matured to the extent that we can now easily get away with using the same computer for 7 to 8 years, and that is only possible because the hardware has caught up with the software.
 
Providing security updates is good customer service, but with a point of diminishing returns as the level of effort increases with a greater number of hardware and software configuration out there.

At the point, it no longer makes business sense to provide security updates as the cost of people being angry is less than the money saved by not creating the updates.

You are 100% correct, but you left out one variable…as the years go on the number of customers decreases… many (most?) will have upgraded and so as costs for updates increase the effected customer base decreases. I prefer Apple spends their development dollars on the future than the past.
 
If people never buy new computers the manufactures will not build new stuff.
Why would they.
Lifespan is what you make it work for you and take your chances on it.
Its always about repair or replace.
Planned Obsolescence Maybe, but i like new stuff.
Old knives someday may not cut the butter!
As far as 7 years some computers still work but some software and the digital world does not stop being built
and it will not work on correctly old hardware.
I laugh when i think about when people complained of memory usage of the little active gifs in webpages.
Memory Hogs the said, well get a new computer we got gifs and pictures and streaming.
Update-upgrade.
-----------------
* APPLE should allow alternate software to run on (Obsolete in their Definition)
Apple server boxes or mini servers made with apple software if they want that control to keep things out of the dumpster. Special OS just for this. Or outside of apple. I`m tired of cloud and USB drives. :(
Buyer beware on purchasing new computers. Is it in-between Phases or models?
Most don`t care its about pricing and they get burned or shorted less than 7 years on some on the windows side of things. I have seen it mentioned all over.
New Ai better have new hardware to run it. But future proof is never a given set in stone on hardware.
I feel the OP but just can`t reach it. This is long in the tooth been this way for years and years longevity of things.
 
7 years=84 months

$2000/84mths= a month $23.81 rounded up!

Get your moneys worth? Not make things go away but how it was spent.
 
The parts the things are made out of have limited lifespan initially as well. For example your average capacitor in the power supply in the screen or PC case, even the best ones, has an expected failure rate of nearly 100% within 7 years at half its rated temperature. You're at the mercy of probability after a point.
Apple should start making their own capacitors!
 
My two cents is that Apple's policy of supporting the most recent three OSes is fine. BUT, we do not need new OSes every year. The only thing I needed Sonoma to do was to fix the instability that Ventura and Monterey introduced to make Big Sur (which, for what it was, was plenty stable) worse. I didn't need Sequoia. There's nothing it introduced that I needed. Yet, it's here and it's what Apple is providing the most security support for. When macOS 16 or 26 or whatever Apple is going to version it as comes out, I'm almost positive, it will introduce no feature that I will have been in any kind of need for. And yet, it will drop support from otherwise functional Intel Macs for no reason other than it being New-OS-o'clock.

People keep trying to make this thread about hardware repair and warranty support. That's not what it's about. It's about using perfectly functional Mac computers on the Internet for as long as possible.

And the only reason why any Mac (other than maybe butterfly-keyboard MacBook Pros and 2018 through 2020 Intel MacBook Airs) shouldn't be supported is that Apple decided to put out a drastically new OS that no one asked for that dropped support for it.

If Apple, instead, based hardware support for an operating system on a fixed schedule, that'd be one thing. And I'd respect it. But, for now, it's just a game of "which Macs meet the minimum requirements for this year's new OS". And while the new OSes have nothing to offer other than being what Apple is supporting, it really doesn't do much to combat notions of planned obsolescence.



Hardware does not become obsolete nor useless nor insecure for practical use because security updates are no longer available for versions of macOS. Web browser security is more worrisome. An uncle of mine uses a 2014 MacBook Air with Big Sur + Firefox (latest) + Apple Mail and has never once had malware or virus. And his knowledge of computers can fit in a thimble.

Ignoring Safari is helpful when you're dealing with an OS that old. But it's not going to completely save you from every security hole. I don't care how knowledgeable or unknowledgeable you are or aren't about computers, it's still not a good idea. Apple Mail can also be a security vector too.

I don't think most Mac users really think about software support the way that the PC and enterprise spaces generally do. Not getting security updates really is important. Sure, if you air-gap your computer, you can keep it running indefinitely. Load a 2019 16-inch MacBook Pro up with a ton of professional grade software (none of which requires the Internet) and it'll still be a viable tool for several years after Apple gives it its final security update. But go online with something like that and you'll always be putting yourself at risk.

Out of curiosity, why did you buy an Intel iMac two years after the introduction of Apple Silicon?

I can think of quite a few reasons to do this. Considering there is still no other hardware out there that can virtualize and natively boot x86 versions of Windows, Linux, and macOS other than an Intel Mac, that would seem to give it some utility. Now, given that it's 2025, and given that we're quite a ways past 9th and 10th Generation Intel, an Intel Mac is probably not the best way to enjoy x86-64 Windows. One is probably way better off on a PC from after the point where Apple stopped producing new Intel Macs.

Legacy compatibility with older macOS releases that never existed on Apple Silicon (even if only running on VMware Fusion) is another good reason. Niche as all hell, sure.

In what sense is it "ridiculous" then?

Every machine capable of running Windows 7 can run Windows 10 today.

"can run" and "should run" are different, especially when it comes to Windows 10. Manufacturers only really produced Windows 10 drivers from the Ivy Bridge (Mid 2012) era and onwards. You could technically install Windows 10 on Sandy Bridge and earlier machines. But you are chancing that your Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 drivers will remain perfectly compatible in Windows 10. For that reason, I don't even consider anything earlier than Ivy Bridge to be even Windows 10 viable. I just look for old Linux distros at that point or just chuck it into e-waste.


your 2011 acer is not officially supported by current windows 10

current windows 10 support goes back to Broadwell, which is 2015

windows 10 support ends in October

so 10 years support. not 25 years that's for sure

Ivy Bridge, if we're talking drivers. Haswell is perfectly supported too. I wouldn't go earlier than Ivy Bridge for any form of Windows 10, however.

That being said, an Ivy Bridge machine could've been purchased as early as 2012 and it will have gotten security updates until 2025. 13 years of support. The best Apple ever provided was support for its own Ivy Bridge and Haswell Macs at 9 years of security patches.


The problem is this:

You can
  1. have proper hardware level security from boot loader level malware
  2. or you can have easily usable third party boot loaders.

You can't have both.


Apple chose #1

Umm...Secure Boot would suggest otherwise. And while Apple's implementation of it on T2 Macs was way more stringent than (a) was necessary and (b) was done by any other UEFI-based PC in the industry, it still allowed for both to happen.

Apple might've wanted Apple Silicon to eschew UEFI in favor of iBoot. But that doesn't mean that (a) it had to and (b) it couldn't have implemented some kind of compatibility layer for UEFI in the way that UEFI did for legacy BIOS (thereby enabling Windows 7, Vista, and XP on 2006-2012 Intel Macs).
 
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My complaint, which I’ve made clear in this thread, is that I will not be able to use my iMac safely as it was intended to be used 2 years from now. It will no longer get security updates.
So your real complaint isn't that your 7 year old Mac isn't supported today, it's that your 9 year old Mac won't be supported 2 years from now. Do you have any idea how crazy you sound?

Find my earlier post about the support cycle of the 2005 Powermac G5. They got literally one OS version upgrade, 2 years of security updates after that, and by 2009 they were unsupported because Apple shifted their focus away from PowerPC to Intel. Apple is now shifting their focus to Apple Silicon, and away from Intel, and is giving users more time to upgrade than they gave to PowerPC users 20 years ago.

Oh, and you're complaining about $2000 as if it were a lot of money. There are people (and corporations) who spent 10's of thousands of dollars on 2019 Mac Pro's, who are also going to be out of support once the full transition to Apple Silicon happens. The only good thing that comes out of this, is that the resale value of those machines is going to fall to the point where collectors, like myself, can afford to buy one, who don't care about if it's officially supported, or not.
 
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Windows OS gets 10 years, same with ChromeOS, I think that should be the norm for MacOS too (full OS updates, not just the security patches near the end of its life). People should email Tim Cook about it.
 
Windows OS gets 10 years, same with ChromeOS, I think that should be the norm for MacOS too (full OS updates, not just the security patches near the end of its life). People should email Tim Cook about it.
I definitely did not get 10 years with mine. There was no option to ask for extended support up to the ten, either.
 
For some older models (yours?) it might not be automatic, you should ask on Reddit for advice if needed. Good luck!
I was unceremoniously kicked off after about 7 years in 2021 and there was no extending it then that I knew of. It's almost moot as ChromeOS Flex is basically the same thing and still works exactly as ChromeOS did, except that for some reason the sound drivers are not included and I haven't found a way to add them back.
 
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So your real complaint isn't that your 7 year old Mac isn't supported today, it's that your 9 year old Mac won't be supported 2 years from now. Do you have any idea how crazy you sound?

Find my earlier post about the support cycle of the 2005 Powermac G5. They got literally one OS version upgrade, 2 years of security updates after that, and by 2009 they were unsupported because Apple shifted their focus away from PowerPC to Intel. Apple is now shifting their focus to Apple Silicon, and away from Intel, and is giving users more time to upgrade than they gave to PowerPC users 20 years ago.

As they should. Because computers now days are way more powerful than 20 years ago. Any Intel Mac which came out after 2012 is perfectly capable do computing tasks in 2025.

10 years of support is bare minimum that Apple should support its Mac.

Oh, and you're complaining about $2000 as if it were a lot of money. There are people (and corporations) who spent 10's of thousands of dollars on 2019 Mac Pro's, who are also going to be out of support once the full transition to Apple Silicon happens. The only good thing that comes out of this, is that the resale value of those machines is going to fall to the point where collectors, like myself, can afford to buy one, who don't care about if it's officially supported, or not.

So, and 2019 Mac Pro supports ends in 3 years, assume it's gets macOS 26 and two years down the road, which would be 2027. It is 8 years of support for a computer costs couple thousand, is frankly bad.
 
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I thought it over and 7 years "or 8 to 9 years as seems the norm" of support seems reasonable to me, given that your Mac can still be used for several more years as Browser and other Developers are likely to support your OS for a few more years, and for as long as you can install any up to date Internet Browser you can still use your Mac for awhile after Official Apple Support Ends depending on what OS you can install on it..

I still have my 11 year old Macbook Air that I bought in 2022, but I have the latest Firefox and Edge installed with Big Sur 11.7.10, plus AVG Antivirus that still supports it. So even it isn't a paper weight at least for now. I probably can't update Safari or iTunes but I never use those anyway.

However my Air was still somewhat supported when I bought it cause it came with Big Sur, and not Catalina, but I should held out for a M1.

Probably whenever my Air does hit the scrapheap I will consider getting a much more up to date Mac and not buy one that is right at the near end of it's support cycle.
 
It's not 7 years from release date, it's 7 years from date of last sale. For example, the mid-2012 13" MBP stopped being sold in like 2016, so it was supported until 2023, a full 11 years after it was first released.
 
It's not 7 years from release date, it's 7 years from date of last sale. For example, the mid-2012 13" MBP stopped being sold in like 2016, so it was supported until 2023, a full 11 years after it was first released.

The last security update for macOS 10.15 was in July, 2022 (excepting a Safari update in August, 2022). Apple typically provides security updates for macOS releases for up to three years after the initial release date.

Therefore users who purchased a new 13-inch MacBook Pro (mid-2012) would have received security updates for 6 to 10 years, depending on how early they bought it.
 
What machine are we talking about? My Intel MacBook Pro still gets macOS security updates as needed and it’s from 2017.
 
OP, I totally agree with you for environmental reasons if nothing else. Everyone else is pointing out that other technology companies are no better than Apple—and are often worse—but two wrongs don't make a right.
What gets lost here is that support from the manufacturer and the usability of older hardware are two different things. My Linux PC has no software support at all from the manufacturer, but that's because I built it myself and installed my own software. Yet it's still usable, can run current and up-to-date applications, and this will likely remain true for a decade or longer.

The problem isn't that Apple stops supporting devices at 7 years. It's that old versions of MacOS are notoriously obsolete so much faster than Windows or Linux, and installing unsupported versions isn't always possible or practical (but can be a valid solution, at least while Intel versions of MacOS are still being produced). Even during the period of still receiving security updates they already become obsolete for users needing to run up-to-date versions of applications like Xcode, iMovie, etc. and third-party apps on Mac are often quicker to drop support for older OS versions than on other platforms also.
 
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What machine are we talking about? My Intel MacBook Pro still gets macOS security updates as needed and it’s from 2017.

It will be over soon. Once macOS 26 comes out this October, macOS Ventura support will be dropped. Means, 2017 MacBooks will be out of support forever.
 
Laptop and Computer Depreciation Rate As Per Companies Act The rates applicable as per Companies Act 2013 are as follows: Rate as per straight line method: 31.67%Rate as per written down value (WDV): 63.16% Useful life: 3 years.

That’s why after 3-4years IT stuff end up in the skip...
 
I think 10 years minimum, for basic security updates. Restrict features all you want. Restrict new OS versions too. But the machine should be usable for a minimum of 10 years from first day of release.

Some machines purchased direct from Apple refurbished store might only get 3-4 years of use, and then become paper weights.

I bought my 2019 iMac towards the end of 2022. It might be obsolete and no longer supported by Apple only 2 years from now. It’s bordering on fraud, in my opinion.
In 2013 I bought 1 ipad mini 2 and my macbook pro, as of today 03 JUne 2025, the ipad is e-waste, but the 2013 macbook pro [stock 8GB RAM] is my daily driver...

At work I use a 2006 Mac Pro running Final Cut Pro 7, which I use to edit, so 20 yrs would be the very minimum I would suggest before a product is end of life or obsolete..
 
quote: In 2013 I bought 1 ipad mini 2 and my macbook pro, as of today 03 JUne 2025, the ipad is e-waste, but the 2013 macbook pro [stock 8GB RAM] is my daily driver...


Hmmmm Writing now with one of this (Mini2 - 12.5.7) nothing wrong and goes better every day... (the trick is only, that I got my first Apple store purchase about 2007 and (almost) all apps now install in the “last compatible version” Microsoft Office, Adobe Lightroom, PS express etc etc... Battery all day and Display Retina brilliant...
only if Battery or Display fault it would be replaced.... (by another one for about £25/35 same generation... - I never would pay £600+ for a new one... just for News , Podcast, YouTube, TV etc etc... for what for?

Security Update? Are you in the FBI or what? You run around with a Crashhelmet around in town, just in case something fall on your head? - “No risk no fun” - I am certain M&S here in UK had everything (?) under control regarding Security... but it did not help... if you are a target you are lost anyway, otherwise you “reset to factory default” and re-install with your Apple-ID (do this every 6/8 month anyway do get rid off the cr&£# you cannot delete otherwise (I.e. old/rest from previous Apps) - even own lock-screen and wallpaper is back like before incl Email, Addresses, Notes etc... all like before - Brilliant! Only 20min time involved...
 
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