Only 7 years of support from release date is unacceptable for a $2000+ personal computer.

[weckart]

Oh, and you're complaining about $2000 as if it were a lot of money. There are people (and corporations) who spent 10's of thousands of dollars on 2019 Mac Pro's, who are also going to be out of support once the full transition to Apple Silicon happens. The only good thing that comes out of this, is that the resale value of those machines is going to fall to the point where collectors, like myself, can afford to buy one, who don't care about if it's officially supported, or not.

The hurt can vary a lot. Many companies lease their hardware for 2-3 years then upgrade regardless. That includes the public sector. I know my friend who works alongside that gets a new PC/laptop every couple of years even if the hardware changes are minimal. They could not care less whether Lenovo or Apple are dropping support as it never affects them in their working life.

Back in the day, hardware costs, although astronomical to the home buyer, tended to take second place to software costs, especially if bespoke software was used. If said software was not easily updatable, you tended to run those legacy computers until they broke and were forced to look for new solutions. I've worked at companies that ran old versions OS/2 on certain boxes long after IBM had ditched it altogether. Otherwise, hardware costs often ran a poor second to productivity so if you needed faster, more efficient hardware, there was a budget for that every few years or so, long before the 7-10 year support window closed in. eBay etc is full of ex-office stuff, even today, some still in warranty.

I think most of the complaints are from individual users, who don't have huge IT budgets to indulge themselves with.

 

[Rob__Mac]

There's "support" and then there's "support" though, right?

I use a 2019 Mac Pro for 3D rendering, and unfortunately Apple stopped adding support for new GPU's past a certain point.

They technically still "support" the Mac Pro with the OS updates, but again - they've not dealt with bugs in the GPU and Logic Board drivers that mean I can't upgrade past macOS 13 without breaking the GPU rendering and introducing a bug that causes the SSD's I have on a PCIe card to fail to mount.

This is a $6,000+ computer and I am pretty annoyed that it's no longer going to be upgradeable in the way I was sold it - they're no longer making GPU's for it, nor are they supporting any further 3rd party ones…

 

[Heinzja]

(uK) What is a sensible depreciation rate for laptops and computers? A good (and oft-used) rate is 25%. This could be on a 'straight-line' basis, which writes the asset off at 25% of its cost each year, so that the asset is fully written off after four years.... Businesses do not care if Apple doesn’t “Support” their Stuff after 4-5-6 years...

 

[JustinePaula]

The only reason I am not using my 2013 ipad mini 2 is that it is stuck at IOS 9 or IOS 10.. something .7.. If Apple released a lite version of a more recent IOS version, that unlocked the ipad, I would be so happy.. but as that is about never going to happen, it sits and rots in a drawer...

Here the cost of ipads is no joke, stupid expensive, so as for replacing the ipad mini 2 with something more recent, nope, just cannot justify that.. I wish Timmy would get it, sell more for less, is better than selling less for more...

I would have bought ipads had the cost been reasonable, but since 2013, that is 12 yrs, and at least twice I would have bought, but at the time, they were expensive, so that is 2 no sales.. I wonder how many no sales are lost as a result, but had the price been say 75% less, would folks have bought? I would have.. twice.. every 6 yrs, seems reasonable..

 

[Heinzja]

iPad Mini2 goes up to 12.5.7
Writing now on one of them...

In UK they sell now for about £20-30-40 second hand with warranty up to 5 years (CEX)

 

[JustinePaula]

Mine is stuck at 9.7 forever, every couple months, I do a update check, nothing.. Hey if they are that cheap, send me a couple..!!!

 

[Heinzja]

CeX (UK) Buy & Sell Games, Phones, DVDs, Blu-ray, Electronics, Computing, Vision & CDs

Want to Sell or buy electronics & gadgets online? sell your second hand electronics at best price. Earn & redeem CeX vouchers to buy from Webuy website.

uk.webuy.com

They do mail order as well... 5years warranty...

Do a google search: CEX UK iPad mini 2
And go than to the “shopping “ tab:

The same applies certainly for all other models....
They got now a nice Studio for £5000... they got everything...

Or Morgan in London, they do mail order Surplus stock incl iPhones iPads MacBooks etc

Newsletter is an year old....! Now other Models are around.... anyway only to show that “New” is waste of money (in IT)

I would never, ever buy something new... - what you cannot afford today is cheaper tomorrow! (Quote: myself hihihihi)

 

[Deedolito]

I find this claim highly spurious. Maybe not as-is, but manufacturers have been including TPM headers on all but budget boards for years before that which is really the only blocker for Windows 11. I have Supermicro boards from 2012 that can be made Win 11 compatible with a $30 TPM 2 module.

Also, you can safely use the MS workaround for Win 11 installation. Made for exactly these corporate situations.

 

[bzgnyc2]

(uK) What is a sensible depreciation rate for laptops and computers? A good (and oft-used) rate is 25%. This could be on a 'straight-line' basis, which writes the asset off at 25% of its cost each year, so that the asset is fully written off after four years.... Businesses do not care if Apple doesn’t “Support” their Stuff after 4-5-6 years...

In the US I understand the class life of computers (including laptops) for depreciation purposes is 5 years. For large and medium-sized businesses that use accrual accounting my guess is that they are happy when computers costing $5K+ (a common threshold for capitalizing equipment) last that long and they don't have to write them off ahead of schedule.

For small business operating on a cash accounting basis, my guess is that the issue flips in that every purchase feels like money out of the owner's pocket even if the computer is 10 years old. Same with personal purchases.

The issue has become pyschological in that you get different expectations whether you think of the computer as a durable appliance, tool, home furnishing, or subscription. Equipment or consumable.

Though the cost of a low-end laptop and a good blender has started to collide and often costs less than internet on a monthly basis, I still tend to think of it more like a major appliance or car. I just want it to keep working....

 

[noblesoul117]

Especially considering these machines are sometimes sold direct from Apple for 2 or more years between updates. Mac Mini went 4 years between updates at one time.

And then there’s Apple’s refurbished store, which is currently selling iMacs that were released in 2021. You buy it today and possibly only get 3 years of security updates.

Plus we have the used market to consider, where you can pick up an “obsolete” machine that is still perfectly usable (but not supported by Apple).

And yes I know you could switch to a different operating system (at least with Intel machines), but that defeats the whole purpose of owning a Mac.

Maybe the EU can take care of this. No doubt this creates far more e-waste than the USBC/lightning port fiasco ever did.

Restrict new OS versions to newer machines. I’m fine with that. It’s refusing to provide basic security updates that is the main issue here.

BMWs, Maseratis, and Range Rovers don’t receive extra duration of support just because they’re $100k+ vehicles. (And as the jokes go, Range Rovers “really deserve” extended support.)

Macs are luxury computers. They cost more. That doesn’t mean they get magical levels of support. In fact they already get good — if not great — support by being officially supported for seven years.

The way to avoid getting “shortchanged” less than 7 years of support is to buy a new Mac that’s released this year and know you have 7 years of security support.

Though many people buy used Macs and use them for a decade without concern for security updates…

Now, if we want to talk about a Rolls-Royce level of computers with long-term tailored support, that’s another story. You willing to buy a $20,000 midrange Mac Mini to get a lifetime of company-provided technical support? Yeah, I thought not.

The only people I feel have a right to complain are Mac Pro users, who have gotten screwed over a few times with architecture updates (PPC>Intel, Apple Silicon limitations) or have done years without proper updates.

Some machines purchased direct from Apple refurbished store might only get 3-4 years of use, and then become paper weights.

I bought my 2019 iMac towards the end of 2022. It might be obsolete and no longer supported by Apple only 2 years from now. It’s bordering on fraud, in my opinion.

No 3-4 year old Mac is a paperweight.

You’ve got a personal issue with security updates. Maybe you’re coping for something else? This is both a facetious and genuine question. Your Mac becoming vintage or obsolete does not make it unusable; and the likelihood of attack or infiltration due to a new security risk that’s not addressed because it’s obsolete is, while not zero, minuscule.

But your 7 year old Mac is not a paperweight unless you take a hammer to it and then wonder why it doesn’t work.


Also, as an American, screw the EU. I’m fed up with their meddling. The USB C thing might’ve been a positive forced change but they whine about too much nonsense. Bureaucracy reigning supreme.

It will literally not bother me at all if EU Macs “must be supported for ten years” while American Macs maintain seven years.

If ten years is your line in the sand, you’re literally squabbling over a three year difference. I think you’re coping for something that has nothing to do with computers. Maybe some financial issue or whatever.

Also, if you bought it used, why are you complaining about “a $2000 computer” when you didn’t even pay full price for it? You got the proportional deprecation cost. You literally chose to buy it with less years of security support, at less money. Why did you do that if eking out full-support is your priority?!

I myself bought a mid-thousands Range Rover, with all the stories that come with it, for under $10k. Where’s my 25 year extended warranty from Land Rover for my once-$100k vehicle?!?!?!?!?

I don’t think you realize how great you’ve got it that Apple is still even supporting Intel Macs 6+ years after Apple moved onto Apple Silicon. And even then, there are 2009 and 2012 Intel Macs that some people are still using on their “expired”/maxed-out operating system version.


But alas, I am the fool, for I know that MacRumors is littered with futile squabbling and petty whining, and still I bother to respond.

 

[Und Eser]

Can't sustain growth without unit sales, can't ceaselessly inflate a bubble without it bursting.

Consumers are getting fed-up paying through the nose for hardware restricted by corporate dogma.

 

[BaldiMac]

Consumers are getting fed-up paying through the nose for hardware restricted by corporate dogma.

In reality...

Apple Again Named the World's Most Valuable Brand

Apple has been named the most valuable global brand for the fourth consecutive year, according to the 2025 edition of Kantar's BrandZ report,...

www.macrumors.com

 

[Und Eser]

In reality...

Apple Again Named the World's Most Valuable Brand

Apple has been named the most valuable global brand for the fourth consecutive year, according to the 2025 edition of Kantar's BrandZ report,...

www.macrumors.com

In actual reality the bubble has yet to burst. In the reality some choose to have handed them by narratives that best suit their preconceived biases, we're more than likely a lot further away from it happening than in actual reality.

 

[myhaksown]

It’s industry standard. Have you dealt with other manufacturers? My 5 year old Workstation is already running in to comparability issues. Sure I wish my 5 k M1 Max is supported for ever, but it won’t.

I had the same problem with some hp z800s. 5 years old and we were jumping thru some hoops to get what we wanted to work. This was back in like 2015/2016ish

 

[myhaksown]

What kill switch are you referring to? You mean discontinuing security updates? Windows offers free security updates forever? I’ve never owned a Windows PC for more than maybe five years so I honestly don’t know, but that would be surprising to me.

Don’t you know? Windows 3.1 still gets security updates and windows ME is still getting bug fixes!

 

[Dorfdad]

I mean is it reasonable to ask for 10 years just like all chromebooks now do which cost 1/10 of the cost of a MacBook Pro!

I mean it’s Linux so maybe they can just stop adding new features and continue security supports at least.

 

[bombardier10]

There are companies that support even 18-year-old equipment - so if you want to, you can

 

[wyliej]

The way to avoid getting “shortchanged” less than 7 years of support is to buy a new Mac that’s released this year and know you have 7 years of security support.

Not really. This may be the history of recent practice, but I am not aware of anything to suggest that Apple provides any sort of "gurantee" of X years of hardware/software support for a new Mac purchased today.

 

[myhaksown]

My 2012 non-retina MBP would about now loose it’s power usage if it were to still receive OS updates. My maxed out late 2013 27” iMac is one hell of a beast that could be useful for the next 5 years.

Supporting older systems longer would definitely hurt sales. 2015 MacBook Airs are still good for browsing and email. My 2012 MBP is still good enough for even more than that.

My guess is that the M1 and M2 will lose major new OS support at the same time as there is not so much difference between the internals. As the M2 (Ultra) is still being sold in the Mac Pro that will likely be 4 or 5 years from now. Hopefully Apple is going for 10 years of major OS support with Apple Silicon from the day a certain architecture was launched. So for M1/M2 that would be up until 2030, for M3 that will be 2033 and M4 2034. It’s definitely something they can do without compromise, but if they are willing to is another thing.

If Apple would only release a new OS once every two years they could still retain the last two versions for security updates, but it would double the time these OSes still get security updates. The problem here is that maintaining security updates for older OSes is complex and time consuming so Apple is not gonna move on that point. The only thing that could help is releasing major OS updates less often.

Sure visual changes and features would roll out slower but a huge update would still need to come out when new processors are released and features like ray tracing get added like with the m3. So really it would likely create some level of chaos

Software isn't restricted, you can run software from anywhere, be it steam, a developer's website, your own software. How is Apple restricting you? With the iPhone you cannot side-load apps, but macos, you have the control. Where is there no choice?

ARM is not proprietary, its being used in more and more devices, from phones, to handheld game devices, to windows machines.

You can also run Linux on a Mac, there's Asahi Linux which runs natively.

As for ram, they're not the only ones integrating ram into the CPU and/or logic/mother board. Also When was the last time a consumer upgraded their ram? Yes, it was a thing in the 1990s, but even then the people who actually upgraded their ram was probably a small minority compared to those who bought the machines.

At the end of the day, we have options, choices, and alternatives, in software, hardware, and operating systems.

i upgraded the ram in every MacBook Pro until i got my 2016 and couldn’t. I understand what you’re saying but it just not accurate for everyone and likely less so for folks here. Sure it gives a performance boost but is it really one that we can actually tell? IMO it’s Apple pushing to go as thin as possible at the expense of repairability and to make $200 on an upgrade that would cost me $60-$120. Same with ssds. I can get a crazy fast Samsung NVMe but I need to pay Apple a huge amount for 512 or 1TB? I don’t think 10 years should be a set figure but I also don’t think Apple is doing anything to extend the life of their machines. If anything they’re shortening them.

 

[CodeJingle]

There's no reference point. What other operating systems and systems manufacturers are we comparing to?

 

[01cowherd]

As others have pointed out, the November 2020 M1 MacBook Air is still being sold new today, in three different colors and “Built for Apple Intelligence,” by Walmart for $649. More than 50 have been sold since yesterday.

They also sold the Watch Series 3 up until what, a week before they released the OS that dropped support for it?

 

[lotones]

It’s actually impossible. Nobody believes you.

My iMac was not discontinued in 2019 either. It was originally released in 2019.

Every post of your is filled with lies and distortions.

I’ll never understand someone getting so angry at the idea of Apple supporting their hardware. Totally bizarre.

To be fair, you've claimed that Apple was both "bricking" your iMac and turning it into a "paperweight". So you really shouldn't be calling out anyone for "lies and distortions."

 

[macpro2000]

I think the thing for me is that while I like to keep my computers current, you know darn well that if Apple bothered to implement, a Mac Pro from 2006 could run 10.15 just splendid. This started after Steve passed however I bet he would have had no problem with it saying "We want our customers to have the best experience possible with our Macs." The bottom line is, it makes them more money. Cook made this happen, and on that side the stock has gone through the roof which I'm all for.

 

[LogicalApex]

So the price should dictate support length? What products follow this guideline? I’m not aware of any product that when you buy a more expensive version you get longer support. if I buy a $6000 Alienware gaming PC will I get a longer a warranty vs Dell’s basic laptop? How about a $2000 Samsung fold versus their $99 Samsung phone?

Also, what hardware companies offer support for more than seven years? Maybe 10 or even 15 years needs to be the standard, but is anyone else doing this?

I know we're talking about technology here, but Vitamix does exactly this.

Their blenders come with a 5 year warranty, but their top of the line blenders which have a higher price come with a 10 year warranty.

As others mentioned, the unique challenge with Apple is that they control the OS and the hardware so they can, and do, decide when to make their hardware "obsolete" and that isn't governed by purely technical reasons. On the PC side the hardware is deemed obsolete either due to speed reasons or actual technical limitations that are being hit. Like wanting Frame Gen on the latest Nvidia graphics cards...

If you need proof of how technical limitations aren't the true "reason" you only need to look at the unsupported macOS thread and the work by the community via the Open Core Legacy Patcher to extend the life of Macs.

macOS 15 Sequoia on Unsupported Macs Thread

placeholder

forums.macrumors.com

Apple support lifetimes for Macs should be 10Y minimum, but realistically should be governed by actual hardware limitations and not arbitrary cutoffs.

 

[ShabbaRanks]

On non-Apple hardware, Windows and Linux just run and run and the lifetime of a machine is measured in speed and responsiveness, not a kill switch from the manufacturer. Even Microsoft backtracked on the hardware requirements for Windows 11.

I’ve got to agree with this. The support should be as long as possible and let the user decide just like Windows and Linux have always done. That way, the user can try new software and if it’s too slow to use on their hardware they can decide to upgrade their hardware, go back to the last software through a back-up or just move to a different platform if it’s better for the user.
This thing where Apple just stop support because they say so is not user friendly. It’s hostile and is a way of abusing your users goodwill. Give the power back to the user as lots of perfectly powerful enough Macs and iPhones are being wasted due to Apple. Look at the Intel Core Duo. The first Intel Mac was plenty powerful enough and could have run on for much longer than Apple gave it chance to. I had to move it to Linux and guess what…. it’s still a useful machine.