Opera Software Offers Thoughts on Future of Flash

[ct2k7]

less, for sure ..

It may on your machine, but it certainly doesn't on mine. The fact that YouTube HTML5 videos currently crash the browser on 4 different machines says enough to say that it's not as stable as Flash in my environment.

Adobe's Flash is useful, when used for the right thing. Businesses need to capitalise and gain from current not future. Until DRM and such is sorted, I don't see mass migration of content to the platform.

 

[Groovetube]

less, for sure ..



I'm not saying actual HTML5 implementation is perfect. It's simply better than Flash crapware ...

I simply cannot understand how people could defend Flash ...
Do you (and a lot of other people here) hate SJ so much that you can support Flash only for this reason ?

that's just neurotic. I don't hate Steve Jobs because I happen to like flash.

I'm just not dumb enough to fall for the crap. flash video plays just as well as the html5 video here. I don't give a crap about everybody losing their minds over the latest flash hate.

Just silly.

 

[MorphingDragon]

Apple is more than capable of creating a Photoshop killer, and probably pretty quickly if they needed to:

Unix -> tweaking and paint job -> Mac OS X
KHTML -> tweaking and paint job -> Safari

(I'm sure there are some other notable open source to commercial conversions I'm missing)

Gimp -> tweaking and paint job -> ?

Gimp has more than enough power to compete with Photoshop. Add in some non open source standards that need to be there, and a super slick interface, and there's your Photoshop killer.

Darwin OS and Webkit are far more than just a tweak and a paint job.

---

I've been using Pixelmaker for about a month now. I love how it doesnt take 2 mins to start and 30secs to open a photo.

 

[MacBookDan]

Opera is only saying this because:

1.) It's true
And
2.) So they can keep there app in the app store.


This is Steves show everybody, not even the FTC can regulate Jobs and crew. Be apart of his technological future or be left behind in a FLASH.

AND PEOPLE HERE STILL CAN'T SEE THIS IS CONTROL?

 

[Kristenn]

I get it that Steve Jobs does all the thinking and talking for you? Any opinions - and phrases - of your own on that subject?

I knew that two years before "Jobs" said it. 95% of the things running flash that I view are annoying ads.

I'm pretty sure the poster you quoted knew this too. But I suppose you love stuffing words in people's mouths. =/

 

[MorphingDragon]

I knew that two years before "Jobs" said it. 95% of the things running flash that I view are annoying ads.

I'm pretty sure the poster you quoted knew this too. But I suppose you love stuffing words in people's mouths. =/

Hell, a majority of design students knew what Jobs was going to say ~5 years ago.

 

[Max(IT)]

It may on your machine, but it certainly doesn't on mine. The fact that YouTube HTML5 videos currently crash the browser on 4 different machines says enough to say that it's not as stable as Flash in my environment.

Adobe's Flash is useful, when used for the right thing. Businesses need to capitalise and gain from current not future. Until DRM and such is sorted, I don't see mass migration of content to the platform.

yes, and you have a "magic Mac" that is running Flash flawlessly, un-like the rest of us ...

You and other Apple basher around here are simply denying that Flash sucks ONLY because Jobs said so.
If you are not a "developer" using Flash to make some money, there is NOT A SINGLE reason to love Flash and don't look for an alternative.

that's just neurotic. I don't hate Steve Jobs because I happen to like flash.

I'm just not dumb enough to fall for the crap. flash video plays just as well as the html5 video here. I don't give a crap about everybody losing their minds over the latest flash hate.

Just silly.

HTML5 is not ready ? Well, I hope it will improve soon ...

But saying something like "I like flash" is a non-sense. Flash is a cpu-hog bloatware, good only for Adobe and poor-talented developer, too lazy to find out an alternative.
How can a user like it ?


BTW: it quite simple to find out that you are a Flash developer ....

 

[Groovetube]

yes, and you have a "magic Mac" that is running Flash flawlessly, un-like the rest of us ...

You and other Apple basher around here are simply denying that Flash sucks ONLY because Jobs said so.
If you are not a "developer" using Flash to make some money, there is NOT A SINGLE reason to love Flash and don't look for an alternative.



HTML5 is not ready ? Well, I hope it will improve soon ...

But saying something like "I like flash" is a non-sense. Flash is a cpu-hog bloatware, good only for Adobe and poor-talented developer, too lazy to find out an alternative.
How can a user like it ?


BTW: it quite simple to find out that you are a Flash developer ....

that's right, it's far from being ready, though the mouthy know-it-alls who "read something on a blog so it must be true" crowd (that would be you), are yelling and shrieking off the mountaintops like they know something about it.

And flash works just fine here thank you, as it does for most others. If it didn't, then the majority of people would have dumped it long ago. Flash player has had it's share of problems on the mac, V9 saw some performance increases, V10 really helped, and if you were to actually scope out the new version 10.1, publically available, you'd see a massive improvement so go get the latest under development, it has hardware acceleration and runs even better and stop whining.

And, I'm a web developer. Most of my work is html/css/javascript, a lot of php/mySQL, and I write actionscript3 and develop great flash stuff, when it warrants it. I prefer to have a sane, balanced view rather than running off at the mouth.

And lastly, I'm far from an apple basher. I love apple enough to have committed my company to the platform, and have no plans to change. So take your "apple-basher" nonsense and just shut up.

 

[Max(IT)]

keep your "shut up" to someone more related to you, pls ...

There is not something like a "great flash stuff", so that's basically bs ...
And, for you information, I have Flash 10.1 installed since the first public beta, running now Gaia preview. Crapware nonetheless ...

Less crapware doesn't mean "great product" in my dictionary ...

 

[Groovetube]

f you did install the new plugin, you would have noticed the performance increase right away, or, then you have very little knowledge of the subject.

The shut up was in response to calling me an apple hater. It seems this is the last line of defence of anyone who can't follow through on a debate on a mac forum.

 

[Max(IT)]

f you did install the new plugin, you would have noticed the performance increase right away, or, then you have very little knowledge of the subject.

The shut up was in response to calling me an apple hater. It seems this is the last line of defence of anyone who can't follow through on a debate on a mac forum.

I have Gaia Preview installed and a degree in IT, so I have plenty of knowledge in the subject.

I say again: less crapware doesn't mean "great product" in my dictionary ...

 

[Groovetube]

I have Gaia Preview installed and a degree in IT, so I have plenty of knowledge in the subject.

I say again: less crapware doesn't mean "great product" in my dictionary ...

ooooh, a -degree- in IT. I think my grandmother has one of those.

Well, if you did have "plenty of knowledge", then you would know very well the performance differences from version 8. Any developer involved knows very well.

Otherwise, you know nothing.

 

[KnightWRX]

I have Gaia Preview installed and a degree in IT, so I have plenty of knowledge in the subject.

I have a degree in computer science (there is no such thing as a degree in IT, you can have certifications or completed a course in a technical college, but at the university level, IT isn't a program) and 12 years experience in IT today.

All that has taught me is that IT is so vast and computer science in general is even more vast that no single person can have knowledge about everything. Having the Gaia preview installed doesn't mean you know squat about Flash.

You and other Apple basher around here are simply denying that Flash sucks ONLY because Jobs said so.

No, we're not denying that Flash sucks ONLY because Jobs said so. Quite the contrary, we're saying that you and others are ranting about Flash sucking ONLY because Jobs said so.

So it's nice of you of admitting that that is the case. So much for your "degree in IT". Did it come direct from Steve Jobs ?

Not to mention you're still on the Black and White train. People who don't repeat Steve Jobs' gospel aren't Apple haters. I love my Macbook, I love OS X, I love my Airport base station. I absolutely love the features of OS X 10.5, am happy with 10.6, would love a Mac Mini to replace my aging P2-333 FreeBSD server. I use AFP/NFS to share files over my network and use iTunes to sync my iPods. I bought a Macbook for my GF to switch her over.

Yet I find Apple's stance on Flash to be ridiculous. It's not "all in or nothing". It doesn't have to be. You don't have to be brainwashed or join some kind of cult because you bought an Apple product.

 

[Max(IT)]

ooooh, a -degree- in IT. I think my grandmother has one of those.

I couldn't care less about your grandmother, sorry ...
And your point is ?

Well, if you did have "plenty of knowledge", then you would know very well the performance differences from version 8. Any developer involved knows very well.

Otherwise, you know nothing.

ohhh, very impressive. A performance difference from Flash 8 ...
Err ... Flash 8 is a technology from 2005 ....
For the third time: less crapware doesn't mean "great product".

I have a degree in computer science (there is no such thing as a degree in IT, you can have certifications or completed a course in a technical college, but at the university level, IT isn't a program) and 12 years experience in IT today.

Dude, the World doesn't end in North America ...
In ITALY there is a UNIVERSITY degree called SCIENZE DELL' INFORMAZIONE, that translates exactly in INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY.
Educate yourself before speaking ...

And your 12 years experience is less than impressive for me: I'm around since 1990 in this field

All that has taught me is that IT is so vast and computer science in general is even more vast that no single person can have knowledge about everything. Having the Gaia preview installed doesn't mean you know squat about Flash.

there is nothing to know about Flash: it is just a crapware surviving only because the strong ads use ...

No, we're not denying that Flash sucks ONLY because Jobs said so. Quite the contrary, we're saying that you and others are ranting about Flash sucking ONLY because Jobs said so.

You are the people trolling and ranting around this forum, not me or other REAL Apple users ...
And I use Click2Flash on my Mac WELL BEFORE SJ said something about Flash.

So it's nice of you of admitting that that is the case. So much for your "degree in IT". Did it come direct from Steve Jobs ?

I would like to work for him: someone knowing something about this field ...

Not to mention you're still on the Black and White train. People who don't repeat Steve Jobs' gospel aren't Apple haters. I love my Macbook, I love OS X, I love my Airport base station. I absolutely love the features of OS X 10.5, am happy with 10.6, would love a Mac Mini to replace my aging P2-333 FreeBSD server. I use AFP/NFS to share files over my network and use iTunes to sync my iPods. I bought a Macbook for my GF to switch her over.

save me from you ridiculous attempt to gain credibility saying you love Apple products, pls.
It' s quite easy to do a little research about your posts and your attitude here ...

Yet I find Apple's stance on Flash to be ridiculous. It's not "all in or nothing". It doesn't have to be. You don't have to be brainwashed or join some kind of cult because you bought an Apple product.

Flash is crapware, whatever you could say trying to bash Apple on something

 

[KnightWRX]

Dude, the World doesn't end in North America ...
In ITALY there is a UNIVERSITY degree called SCIENZE DELL' INFORMAZIONE, that translates exactly in INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY.
Educate yourself before speaking ...

Scienze means Science, not Technology. Good try though.

You are the people trolling and ranting around this forum, not me or other REAL Apple users ...

I am a real Apple user. And yes, you can research my post. Might I suggest starting with the many Psystar threads where I was accused of being an Apple fanboy ?

The many Mac Mini threads where I had to post many comparison pricings with Dell products to show that it was a competitive product ?

The only trolls here are the ones who see this world as Black and White and have an Italian degree in Information SCIENCE.

 

[UTclassof89]

This post is missing the point. At issue is not whether Flash is going to be around in a few years. Nobody is arguing about that. The issue is whether it's being used today, and whether you want a device that lets you run it today. And the answer is yes, and yes. You want a device that gives you the option to view as much content as possible today.

If you are concerned about battery life then the answer is a browser that lets you disable the flash plugin at your discretion, not a browser that doesn't support flash, period. It's your device, it should be your choice. You wouldn't use Safari on your Mac if it didn't support Flash, so why should you accept anything less on your mobile devices, so long as they give you the option to turn Flash off?

That's a well-written, rational, and spot-on post.
..................................................
[so since you're obviously new, let me tell you how things generally work here:

make some obscure point (Jared from the Subway ads hates Flash!)

draw a ridiculous conclusion (Flash is only for ads; I hate ads; I hate Flash)

Fan flames: (Adobe is dead!)

...and repeat (a few times).]

 

[Max(IT)]

Scienze means Science, not Technology. Good try though.



I am a real Apple user. And yes, you can research my post. Might I suggest starting with the many Psystar threads where I was accused of being an Apple fanboy ?

The many Mac Mini threads where I had to post many comparison pricings with Dell products to show that it was a competitive product ?

The only trolls here are the ones who see this world as Black and White and have an Italian degree in Information SCIENCE.

Are you really trying to lecture me about what my degree is ?!? And this knowing NOTHING about italian and european university ? Good try though ...

The world is not black or white, but to defend Flash is just a non sense. It is pure crapware, mostly used for ads or stupid games. And it is a cpu hog.
Everyone should want something different, especially on a mobile device.

This is why people defending Flash here are lazy developers or just Apple haters.

 

[UTclassof89]

The world is not black or white, but to defend Flash is just a non sense.

How do you say "self-contradicting" in Italian?

 

[KnightWRX]

The world is not black or white, but to defend Flash is just a non sense.

Fact : Disagreeing with Max(IT) is only non sense to Max(IT).

Defending user choice as far as Flash is concerned is important. Flash is here now. There is no technical barrier to Flash on iPhone OS and blocking it through licensing and politics 2 days before Adobe ships one form of it is wrong.

 

[Max(IT)]

Fact : Disagreeing with Max(IT) is only non sense to Max(IT).

Defending user choice as far as Flash is concerned is important. Flash is here now. There is no technical barrier to Flash on iPhone OS and blocking it through licensing and politics 2 days before Adobe ships one form of it is wrong.

There is not such a choice for iPhone users, deal with it. Flash is NOT an open standard. It is not even a "close standard". It is just a proprietary plug-in, and a very bad one, on every platform (including android).
Apple wants to give you a different user experience.
You can like their policy or not, this is your CHOICE.

 

[Max(IT)]

How do you say "self-contradicting" in Italian?

I'm not contradicting myself, and to define Flash a "good technology", like your signature seems to imply, is an ignorant statement (no offence implied).
Flash could be good in 2000-2005, I agree with that. But now we definitely need something different.
Html5 (plus css) is not completely ready, but we need to move on, starting today. Kudos to Apple for making this choice now.

 

[Groovetube]

2000-20005 was better?

well you just let us know you don't know what you're talking about at all.
html5 can accomplish what flash did almost 10 years ago.

Maybe you need a degree in "web" in stead of IT, and come back when you're ready.

LOL

 

[UTclassof89]

I'm not contradicting myself

You certainly are!
You said the world isn't black and white, and then made a blanket statement saying that defending Flash is "non sense". While it might be too hard for *you* to understand, millions of others like and use Flash on a daily basis.

Flash could be good in 2000-2005, I agree with that.

At what point between 2005 and 2010 did Flash suddenly change from 'good' to 'bad'? The fact that there are more alternatives for simple effects with JavaScript doesn't change what Flash brings to the table.

I'm delighted that HTML will FINALLY be able to display video without a plug-in wrapper, and that it looks like animation will be native to the browser, and simple things like slideshows won't have to rely on Flash, because I'm not an "either-or" sort of person, as you seem to be; but Flash will remain the better solution for highly interactive/immersive applications, such as product configurators and eLearning presentations.

And since you've misinterpreted my signature, it means that advocating the death of a technology that has many fine applications, simply because you don't understand it, is ignorant (it would be like me saying "GIFs should die because I don't like animated banner ads, and some people make them too large and inefficient--PNGs rule!").

The point of this thread is how silly it would be for Opera to arbitrarily decide their browser should stop displaying the most common multimedia filetype in use on the web (as Apple essentially did).

 

[KnightWRX]

There is not such a choice for iPhone users

Adobe was to provide one 2 days before Apple blocked it through politics.

It is not even a "close standard". It is just a proprietary plug-in, and a very bad one, on every platform (including android).

Being available on 95% of Internet connected devices makes it non-standard... how ?

Apple wants to give you a different user experience.

I make my own experience. I'm the user, I know what I like and don't. I bought my device, it is mine to do with as I please.

You can like their policy or not, this is your CHOICE.

And I choose to not like it. And I choose to voice my opinion here, on a DISCUSSION forum. This is not a AGREEING WITH STEVE forum. No matter how much you want it to be.

That doesn't make me or others like me Apple haters.

And since you've misinterpreted my signature, it means that advocating the death of a technology that has many fine applications, simply because you don't understand it, is ignorant (it would be like me saying "GIFs should die because I don't like animated banner ads, and some people make them too large and inefficient--PNGs rule!").

Not that it's an issue anymore, but GIF should've died, but not because it displayed animated banners or was plain crap or whatever other "technical" reason, it should have died because it was patent encumbered and created a barrier to entry in the browser market that prevented people without the cash to pay Unisys for a license from participating in the innovation and creation of the Web in the 90s.

MNG is actually the format for animated images that should've replaced it. Fortunately, Microsoft decided that GIF was it and never bothered to properly implement PNG, much less MNG until it was too late and the Unisys patents had expired.

The GIF situation is more akin to the H.264 vs Webm situation than this Flash stuff though. Nothing really compares to Flash on iPhone OS in the history of computing. It's a non-technical, politically driven move by a corporation that in the end harms their own users to further their goals.

 

[Max(IT)]

You certainly are!
You said the world isn't black and white, and then made a blanket statement saying that defending Flash is "non sense". While it might be too hard for *you* to understand, millions of others like and use Flash on a daily basis.

millions of others jut use Flash (actually they don't use it, they just view ads banner because don't know about flash blockers) because of millions ads all over the web.
Oh, I forgot to mention millions of Farmville supporters, I beg your pardon

At what point between 2005 and 2010 did Flash suddenly change from 'good' to 'bad'? The fact that there are more alternatives for simple effects with JavaScript doesn't change what Flash brings to the table.

Flash was bad in 2005 also. It was even worst than today, actually. But there weren't many alternatives for visual rich contents.
It's 2005 no more, fortunately ...

I'm delighted that HTML will FINALLY be able to display video without a plug-in wrapper, and that it looks like animation will be native to the browser, and simple things like slideshows won't have to rely on Flash, because I'm not an "either-or" sort of person, as you seem to be; but Flash will remain the better solution for highly interactive/immersive applications, such as product configurators and eLearning presentations.

And since you've misinterpreted my signature, it means that advocating the death of a technology that has many fine applications, simply because you don't understand it, is ignorant (it would be like me saying "GIFs should die because I don't like animated banner ads, and some people make them too large and inefficient--PNGs rule!").

The point of this thread is how silly it would be for Opera to arbitrarily decide their browser should stop displaying the most common multimedia filetype in use on the web (as Apple essentially did).

if you don't acknowledge that Flash is mostly for ads or stupid games, you are not honest. Developers are to push hardly toward new standards (html5 + css) and get rid of that **** ...

Adobe was to provide one 2 days before Apple blocked it through politics.

no, it was just a way to port flash crapware on our iphones ... Nothing more.

Being available on 95% of Internet connected devices makes it non-standard... how ?

and what is your point ?
It is NOT a standard. It is a proprietary plug-in. And a bad one. Windows 95 was installed on 95% computers, but was a nightmare of an o.s.

I make my own experience. I'm the user, I know what I like and don't. I bought my device, it is mine to do with as I please.

no, you didn't.
Flash wasn't supported by iPhone when you bought it, so you don't know how it runs. Jobs said us it could ruin your user experience, but you don't trust him. You saw a video proving that it sucks on an Android device with twice the power of an iPhone but you still don't trust jobs' words.

And I choose to not like it. And I choose to voice my opinion here, on a DISCUSSION forum. This is not a AGREEING WITH STEVE forum. No matter how much you want it to be.

That doesn't make me or others like me Apple haters.

no, your choice is to rant about Apple in every single post. BTW, do you have an Android based smartphone ?