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OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion Developer Preview 2 Seeded to Developers

asd789789 said:
Thank you!

Wasn't thinking of touching the Beta... Just looking into the future ;)
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Careful! Its not a beta its a developer preview which means its extra broken.

Its basically a rough version of the OS (rougher than a beta) developers use to test out their own apps so that they are Mountain Lion ready. Lots of stuff breaks during these developer previews and something that may work during one release may be broken in another.

Personally I'd say just wait for the official release and upgrade *if* and only if you don't have a ton of essential programs to use. If you do, wait for a little bit to give your other applications time to catch up to the new OS requirements and then upgrade :)

PsykX said:
Actually, yes, they did.

It’s not just the apps that have changed in Mountain Lion. There’s a lot of new APIs, a lot of fixes over Lion, a lot of GUI changes, most likely support for more recent OpenGL for gaming (they always support a more recent OpenGL with newer OS X), and yes, there are iOS applications coming to your Mac.
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I'm desperately hoping for a newer OpenGL implementation. Maybe The Foundry will finally release Mari for Mac. I know they had it made, it was on there forums, but because Apple took too long getting to OpenGL 3 they went with a Windows version vs Mac :(
 
Xe89 said:
Indeed. OSX vs. Windows 8 is not interesting, in terms of sale anyway.

iPad vs. Windows 8-based tablets, on the other hand...
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That's also not interesting for the same reasons, just reversed. :)
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9B176 Safari/7534.48.3)

Very snappy and nice update so far, feels a bit like win7 compared to vista. 7 is also a tuned vista.

Someone mentioned the following changes: ;-)

New touchpad geastures!
Scroll to bottom: swipe from beyond of bottom edge up.
Scroll to top: swipe from beyond top edge down.

A feature called "cloud tabs" introduced in safari.

Very nice work sO far.
 
chrono1081 said:
Careful! Its not a beta its a developer preview which means its extra broken.
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Not really. This is as beta as you can get with OS X. Any build which is couple months away from release is a beta. It's not more broken than the windows betas which are released 4 months before the GM. I have used every developer preview starting with Tiger, and most of them were usable for daily work with crashes every now and then. The big issues are usually about unsupported kexts, which makes one unable to use 3rd party hardware or some software. But Apple's own apps mostly function in these previews.

I tested the first DP of Mountain Lion, and everything I used (hardware and 3rd party software) were fully functional. But there were too frequent crashes with some basic apps that I deleted it.

I started using Lion as my every day OS starting with the second build before the release, which I think came in May. So developer previews can be quite stable.
 
treichert said:
That's bogus.

Till the GM of Lion there hasn't been a "beta" of Lion, it's always just been developer previews.
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iBug2 said:
Not really. This is as beta as you can get with OS X. Any build which is couple months away from release is a beta. It's not more broken than the windows betas which are released 4 months before the GM. I have used every developer preview starting with Tiger, and most of them were usable for daily work with crashes every now and then. The big issues are usually about unsupported kexts, which makes one unable to use 3rd party hardware or some software. But Apple's own apps mostly function in these previews.

I tested the first DP of Mountain Lion, and everything I used (hardware and 3rd party software) were fully functional. But there were too frequent crashes with some basic apps that I deleted it.

I started using Lion as my every day OS starting with the second build before the release, which I think came in May. So developer previews can be quite stable.
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I understand what both of you are saying but I still disagree.

Every developer preview comes with developer notes showing what been broken/fixed/what has known issues since the last release. Apple even calls it a "developer preview".

A beta is usually not as broken as a developer preview and is much closer to release. We won't see a beta of ML because Apple doesn't release betas like that. The GM could be the closest thing considered to a beta but we aren't there yet.

I still don't recommend anyone upgrade a work essential machine with ML.
 
What?

AppleSpeculator said:
I really think they're releasing this today because they know how much of a failure the "new iPad" will be. They're trying to take the focus away from their inability to make a good tablet.

The iPad is an awful tablet and a poor experience compared to the Mac. I love MAC OS X, it's beautiful, intuitive and powerful something which iOS is not!!

edit: no im not John C Dvorak. i dont even know who he is. I was just giving my opinion and now people are bullying me. This forum is not too civil.
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I have a feeling this guy is just a windows guy who likes to post negative things about apple.

check this link to his previous posts: https://forums.macrumors.com/search/?searchid=26868330

iPad 3 is a massive step forward with the retina display and a quad core GPU, 4G/LTE and with all that the battery life remains the same...
if you're another moaner complaining it doesn't have a quad core processor and 2GB of ram and its not 128GB flash drive equipped then go and complain somewhere else. To be honest we don't care what you have to say.

I personally am looking forward to Mountain Lion, I fear i'll need to upgrade to a newer machine to reap its benefits though! my 2008 macbook is getting a little long in the tooth compared to todays standards. :(
 
minifridge1138 said:
I can see speed and stability deserving a major release.
And depending on how iCloud is integrated, I can see that also justifying a new version.





What bugs me is that all of these are application updates, not OS updates. The applications may be bundled with the OS, but did they require a kernel re-write to work?
I'll be disappointed if the future of OS X versions were just minor changes to programs and some new drivers. I'd think that sort of thing would be in a . . release (as in going from 10.7.1 to 10.7.2).
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Why do most people expect a Big Bang approach every 3-4 years vs. a stable and phased year by year approach?

How would it matter you get a minor update priced at $29 that's released every 12-18 months vs. one major update that's $129 and is released after 4-5 years? If you don't like to minor increments ignore them. Even after that, Apple is doing a great job of getting major upgrades every 24-36 months (Tiger vs. Snow Leopard, Leopard Vs. Mountain Lion)

In my opinion, the way Apple does it is much better. You don't get major surprises, and you get an opportunity to learn and grow along with the product. If Apple had thrown in everything the iPhone 4S has on the first iPhone (developer APIs, notifications, cut copy paste), it would've taken a very long time for people to get used to so much in little time.
 
zorinlynx said:
Is this only for the previews, though? It would make sense for Apple to not require the Mac App Store during the testing period.

I heard that they were going to only allow Mac App Store apps to use notification center. How much truth is there to this?
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It is a "half" truth. There are different types of notifications. Some notification are going to trickle out to all of your iCloud devices. Those are non-local (you have new friend request in game center) . Other notifications are local to a specific machine ( "finished printing that 80 page document" ).

".... There's been a bit of confusion about the new notifications API (NSUserNotification) and whether or not it's available to applications not in the Mac App Store. Local notifications using the new API are available to third party apps regardless of their distribution model (they don't need to be in the Mac App Store). ... "
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5545/mac-os-x-mountain-lion-developer-preview/4

It makes sense if Apple allows purely local notifications to be sent outside the App Store "sandbox" to the notification server on that specific Mountain Lion instance. Someone is only going to invent a hack (through some local infrastructure ) that does something similar to what Hiss does if Apple doesn't allow it. Stuff outside the sandbox can write to stuff (files/sockets/etc.) that programs inside the sandbox can read. The program inside the sandbox will just relay the message. There is zero good reason to make people write the kludge.

Hiss is a bit different in that it is just extending Growl notification abilities that apps already have. It is kind of an "adapter" between the two systems (Growl -> Notification Center. )




The external app may need to be signed ( have heard different on ways around that), but doesn't have to be inside the Mac App store sandbox.

Also, how do they enforce this? OS X is not a locked down environment by any means.
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Shutting down notification relays? They really can't (well if they don't want to break their own rules. )

Shutting down API calls... they can set up library dependencies so that have to load sandbox permission library before can get to the Push/non-local notification library. In short, stick calls to the sandbox inside the portions of the notification API.
 
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PBP said:
jwaldrip said:
I started using Mountain Lion about a month ago and aside from some of the compatibility issues with apps such as parallells and a couple of other unmentionables the features have been great. Although if you work for growl you probably hate apple right now. Their notification center is unobtrusive and gets the job done even better than growl did. Also now that all the apps on my mac match the ones on my phone and ipad (Notes, Reminders, etc) it makes life a lot easier. I wouldn't say update now if your not a developer but when the time comes I think there are a lot of very cool features shipping in the new version of OSX.
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The only problem is that notification center only works with Appstore apps :(
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Untrue. Push notifications require MAS, local notifications don't.
 
iBug2 said:
No. That was back then when Mac OS X was primitive and every iteration "had" to include many more big features, because so many necessary things were missing. OS X has matured by the time of Tiger and most stuff that came after that were less impressive. It's not surprising at all. For 3D developers, Lion finally brought support for OpenGL 3, which was missing since the days of Leopard and SL should have included it in the first place. Yet it wasn't really a big deal for most people, because consumers don't care. Even though this is a big deal for many developers.
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What? Leopard was by far THE most impressive os x release and you are saying it was less impressive just to sugar coat the lion interface fiasco and the crap that passes off as a new os release with mountain lion?
 
wikus said:
I hope they fixed Mission Control and gave back 'ALL APP' expose... or at least an option in System Preferences to ungroup windows in the same application. Anyone who multitasks and has to drag/drop items from one app to another (illustrator to photoshop) will know how much of a fail Mission Control is.
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I agree that in this case going back would be an upgrade. I don't think it's going to happen, though.

I knew I missed proper Expose from Leopard and Snow Leopard, but until a few days ago, after sitting down at a friend's iMac that still have 10.6, I didn't realize how much smoother my workflow is with old Expose.
 
wikus said:
I hope they fixed Mission Control and gave back 'ALL APP' expose... or at least an option in System Preferences to ungroup windows in the same application. Anyone who multitasks and has to drag/drop items from one app to another (illustrator to photoshop) will know how much of a fail Mission Control is.
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Spacebar anyone?
 
chrono1081 said:
I understand what both of you are saying but I still disagree.

Every developer preview comes with developer notes showing what been broken/fixed/what has known issues since the last release. Apple even calls it a "developer preview".

A beta is usually not as broken as a developer preview and is much closer to release. We won't see a beta of ML because Apple doesn't release betas like that. The GM could be the closest thing considered to a beta but we aren't there yet.

I still don't recommend anyone upgrade a work essential machine with ML.
Click to expand...
Nobody recommends that. I wouldn't either. But I wouldn't recommend any work essential machine to upgrade to any kinds of beta OS, whether it's called a beta or developer preview.

Whether a beta gets broken or not depends on the app and developer itself. World of Warcraft betas usually last 6 months before the game release and too many things get changed during the beta, but it's still called the beta phase, which comes after the closed alpha phase. And some betas like Adium don't change much during the beta phase but get minor enhancements and bug fixes.
 
blow45 said:
What? Leopard was by far THE most impressive os x release and you are saying it was less impressive just to sugar coat the lion interface fiasco and the crap that passes off as a new os release with mountain lion?
Click to expand...

I'm not saying Leopard as a release was less impressive than Lion. It certainly was impressive because it packed the biggest amount of consumer features for any OS X release. But as an OS, Lion is much better than Leopard.
 
euphlyusUNO said:
Why do most people expect a Big Bang approach every 3-4 years vs. a stable and phased year by year approach?

How would it matter you get a minor update priced at $29 that's released every 12-18 months vs. one major update that's $129 and is released after 4-5 years? If you don't like to minor increments ignore them. Even after that, Apple is doing a great job of getting major upgrades every 24-36 months (Tiger vs. Snow Leopard, Leopard Vs. Mountain Lion)

In my opinion, the way Apple does it is much better. You don't get major surprises, and you get an opportunity to learn and grow along with the product. If Apple had thrown in everything the iPhone 4S has on the first iPhone (developer APIs, notifications, cut copy paste), it would've taken a very long time for people to get used to so much in little time.
Click to expand...

Totally missed my point.

I'm happy (actually expecting) to get updates every 12-18 months. As new products get released, bugs are fixed, vulnerabilities are patched, etc.

I'm nervous about major releases every 12-18 months. 10.7 wasn't out a year before 10.8 was announced. Usually when a product has such a short shelf life it's because either (a) it was a flop and the company wants to forget about it quickly (I'm looking at you, Vista) or (b) because something much better is out (I'm looking at you, iPad 2).

I don't see Lion as a flop (imperfect yes, but not a flop) and I have yet to see anything in Mountain Lion that is much better. If 10.8 is different enough to warrant a major release, then what am I missing something about Mountain Lion?
 
minifridge1138 said:
Totally missed my point.

I'm happy (actually expecting) to get updates every 12-18 months. As new products get released, bugs are fixed, vulnerabilities are patched, etc.

I'm nervous about major releases every 12-18 months. 10.7 wasn't out a year before 10.8 was announced. Usually when a product has such a short shelf life it's because either (a) it was a flop and the company wants to forget about it quickly (I'm looking at you, Vista) or (b) because something much better is out (I'm looking at you, iPad 2).

I don't see Lion as a flop (imperfect yes, but not a flop) and I have yet to see anything in Mountain Lion that is much better. If 10.8 is different enough to warrant a major release, then what am I missing something about Mountain Lion?
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Actually, I just wanted "use your quote" vs. "quoting you" :)
 
ayala421 said:
"AppleSpeculator - macrumors newbie"...obviously some android d*ck rider who created an account here just to talk smack about Apple.

I on the other hand cannot wait for this update, Apple has a lot of cool things up their sleeves.
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While one might understand if an Android user were to having opposing opinions in these forums, I hardly see where the sexual activity comes into play. Calm yourself.
 
AppleSpeculator said:
I really think they're releasing this today because they know how much of a failure the "new iPad" will be. They're trying to take the focus away from their inability to make a good tablet.

The iPad is an awful tablet and a poor experience compared to the Mac. I love MAC OS X, it's beautiful, intuitive and powerful something which iOS is not!!

edit: no im not John C Dvorak. i dont even know who he is. I was just giving my opinion and now people are bullying me. This forum is not too civil.
Click to expand...

I just read through every comment you have posted on these forums. No how much bitching/trolling you do on THESE forums, it will not halt the changes being made to the operating system. So cut it out and just accept it.
 
iBug2 said:
No. That was back then when Mac OS X was primitive and every iteration "had" to include many more big features, because so many necessary things were missing. OS X has matured by the time of Tiger and most stuff that came after that were less impressive.
Click to expand...

Sorry, no. As recently as Snow Leopard's release Apple was touting such new OS features as Grand Central Dispatch, OpenCL, Quicktime X, and full 64-bit support. And this was right up front in marketing the OS release, not as a "developer's interest" afterthought. Do we see any such OS advancement in Lion or Mtn Lion?
 
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