"Beachballs", and I thought it was just me being a Newbie on a iMac and all things Apple since I converted in June!
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
OS X El Capitan 10.11.1 Public Release Coming Soon With Fixes for Office 2016, Mail, and More
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
It would be nice if they fixed the bug that outright prevents iChat/Messages from the Remote desktop connection, when the connection goes over the internet. I do I.T. work and Apple breaking that has been a MAJOR pain in the @$$ for me.
Clean install, Clean install, Clean install, Clean install, Clean install. That is the first and last of any major operating system upgrade - when in doubt wipe in out and clean install then at least you know that there aren't lingering issues hanging around and that issues you do experience are solely due to the operation system and not because of other issues.
A immediate clean install of a new OS isn't necessarily the end all cure all especially if the new one itself contains major bugs. I had no issues with Yosemite and was anticipating a smooth upgrade to El Capitan. And, *overall*, it was indeed a smooth upgrade for me with virtually none of the major issues reported by others replicating themselves. Sure, there were a few software issues but, with only a few exceptions, they were quickly resolved with El Capitan compatible updates. However, El Capitan broke Time Machine's automatic updates on my late 2013 Mac Pro and not even the reformatting of the external hard drive used for TM nor a clean install of El Capitan has thus far resolved the issue. So, I wait for 10.11.1 and hope it fixes Time Machine. If not, Apple's next trouble-shooting recommendation is to do yet another clean install then reinstall all of my non-Apple apps one at a time and see if Time Machine backups take place before installing the next one. That's gonna takes days-maybe even more than a week-to complete.
No need for backups anymore with this methodology. Why do backups anymore if everything is a clean install to fix os x issues. I can also restart my computer to to fix it; just like the good old days. (oh wait, that's why I left MS years ago)
Exactly. Hard to believe that the suggestion was made with seriousness. Imagine the ridicule leveled at Microsoft and Windows if someone suggested that for every update.
If the recommended approach to annual upgrades is to wipe out the system and cleanly install the new one then it is time for me to reconsider going back to Windows.
Good luck waiting for the fix... Apple messed up something when they added new drivers for the new keyboard with rechargeable battery in v.10.11. Interesting enough, new keyboard works flawlessly on the same mac-mini 2012 where previous generation wireless apple keyboard started to fail after 10.11 OS upgrade, figures. Seems they are not in the harry to fix it, to boost new keyboard sale perhaps.
That is the recommended approach. I always clean install a new version of OS X. Guess how many issues I've had? Zero.
Yeah, this isn't Windows. I've NEVER done a clean install on any of my Macs. In my experience, the problems you get are the problems the new OS brings. I think El Capitan simply shows the beach ball for more things (i.e. disk loading delays). It's not that it seems to take longer, the ball just shows up more often briefly/momentarily. It seems to do it less over time, though. I don't get as many now a week later as I got on day 1, for example. Actual program operations are generally faster, I think. I tried Borderlands 2 and where I was running less than native resolution with high settings before, I cranked it up to native 1680x1050 here and for the areas I've played so far it runs smooth as silk. Aspyr hasn't updated it to Metal yet, so maybe OpenGL is better now too for some things (XBench shows some improvement on that very old brief test). I wonder if the 4000HD driver got a few more hardware things supported since Mavericks (I skipped Yosemite).
The Surface is not a direct competitor to the iPad or even OS X. Surface runs a full version of Windows 10 and Office 2016 for Windows with all the bells and whistles, features even OS X doesn’t get. However nice and feature-rich Office for iOS and OS X may seem, Apple devices are still treated like 2nd class. No Access, a dysfunctional Outlook, no direct OS access to OneDrive, lots of missing features in OneNote, and all for the same price as the Windows version. Microsoft is doing a bait-n-switch with Office for Mac.
That has less to do with the clean install and more to do with your use cases.
Apple themselves acknowledges that there are issues with OSX... that is why they release .1 updates that "fix" things. In order for a "fix" to be released, something must be "broken". You just happen not to have been bitten by those bugs. Would it be worse if you did an in-place update? Probably.
Makes me wonder how well would Windows compare if people did a clean install for Windows every year.
If by chance you have a Mac Mini, make sure your computer doesn't need this update https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1828
El Cap hosed my mailboxes/mail, 2hrs on the phone to 
care, even they couldn't fix, other than downgrade to Yosemite & say to wait till next update, wasted 20hrs including time machine restore, hardly a flawless update I'd say!
care, even they couldn't fix, other than downgrade to Yosemite & say to wait till next update, wasted 20hrs including time machine restore, hardly a flawless update I'd say!That explains several problems. Do we know if they will add back in the RAID tab in disk utility. According to support the only way you can change raid or run repair is through the terminal. I have three raids set up and I am not comfortable using the terminal to maintain RAID or make changes.
I see the iPad Pro as a direct competitor to the Surface. it's aiming directly for that market. It may run a slightly crippled version of Office but Microsoft still showed up and pretty much said "Look how awesome our product runs on this fantastic tablet that is not a Surface." They could have sat it out and simply said "Yeah, we'll have a version for it. Eventually. As soon as we get finished wrapping up the Windows version that we hope, hope, gets you to buy our new Surface Book..."
As well, even offering a crippled version as a way of keeping Office for Mac subscribers is better than nothing. They probably truly suffered by not offering an iPad version for so long. Where I used to sell Macs we said it was because Microsoft apparently hates money. They stood by watching as Apple sold -- sold-- versions of it's own productivity suite and Google refined it's already free software. Perhaps none of them are nearly as robust as Office, but for the casual user they are more than enough and as users become proficient in another piece of software it's much harder to move them back to a platform that now has changed it's interface completely and become tied to an operating system that is just riddled with issues.
This time, they're in early.
"You're always right about these things and this time I want in on the ground floor."
My issues with El Capitan has nothing to do with any files or 3rd party programs. My issue with with the wifi and Bluetooth. After I installed El Captian I got a message saying Bluetooth wasn't available. Then yesterday my wifi wasn't working because it said I didn't have any wifi hardware installed. After restarting it 3 times it finally decided to work.
Can't change system icons as easy as before. I use to customize my icons to match my desktop. Now I have to jump through fire rings to change the icons. No more copy and paste.
I think it is laughable that people are suggesting a clean install after every update. Not only is that impractical for many but it is giving Apple a free pass by accepting the buggy operating systems they have been putting out lately.
I've been a OS X user since 2012. I haven't looked back since then. Every update has been smooth for me. But this El Capitan has been a thorn in my side. Everyday it is a new nightmare adventure.
Can't change system icons as easy as before. I use to customize my icons to match my desktop. Now I have to jump through fire rings to change the icons. No more copy and paste.
I think it is laughable that people are suggesting a clean install after every update. Not only is that impractical for many but it is giving Apple a free pass by accepting the buggy operating systems they have been putting out lately.
I've been a OS X user since 2012. I haven't looked back since then. Every update has been smooth for me. But this El Capitan has been a thorn in my side. Everyday it is a new nightmare adventure.
I would be giving you the same advice if you upgraded Windows from one version to the next version. We're talking about upgrades NOT updates - please learn the difference.
You don't need to do 'yearly clean installs' but when you upgrade your operating system then you should do a clean install but when you update then use a combo update when updating. Don't jump to irrational concludes because I day say, "when upgrading do a clean install" to claiming that I said "every update requires a clean install".
There isn't a new version released each year though. Apple's strategy is ridiculous.
I'd actually say that the iPad is complementary to the Surface line, and arguably takes the place of the RT (that only failed because of the intransigence of the Windows community, who saw a desktop and thought 'crippled OS') in the Microsoft ecosystem. You want full fat Office, then you use a Mac or Windows system, you need a less functionality and a reduced risk from malware, use an iPad. I don't miss a single function on the Mac compared to my Surface Pro 3, so maybe the balance is struck nicely between what's needed by the majority?
I think it's hard to compare a Surface (save in "tablet mode") to an iPad Pro. For better (full OS; full sized apps) or worse (more complicated OS to work with in tablet mode), it's really a different market. Some people will not see/use it that way and would compare them directly, but that's like saying an iPad users couldn't get whatever they're doing done with a Macbook Air. Sure they could. But some people prefer the tablet experience and the don't want to run a malware checker or have to use Windows preferences that aren't fully designed for tablet use on their Surface Pro in tablet mode. If a tablet is enough, they'll probably like the iPad Pro. If it's NOT enough, they're not going to be happy with the iPad Pro at all because it's not a full computer.
OTOH, I don't see any reason why with the Apple Pencil in mind, that Apple couldn't include a full version of OS X with an iPad Pro at this point (probably using an Intel CPU setup instead). Just use the pencil instead of a mouse (and let one use a mouse if they want when set up like a dock) and offer pop-up keyboard support when a real keyboard isn't connected. Apple could really stand to improve LaunchPad (why oh why is there not a Launchpad "editor" like iTunes has for iPhones to configure layouts, etc.?) and that improved Launchpad could easily replace the dock on such a machine for a touch-layout or the dock would work OK with the pencil clicking on it, etc.
I personally think Apple should seriously consider starting to merge iOS and OS X on some of the products (iPad and iPad Pro first). Make the iPad more into OS X, not the other way around. Give OS X some touch type options and improve Launchpad and add Siri and you'd have the ability to start offering an iPad that can do more than just iOS Apps. For that matter, offer the ability to run iOS Apps in OS X through an "emulator" type setup like the developer kit already offers! You'd then have devices that could do EITHER. Put in touch-screens in Macbooks and iMacs so that they are 100% compatible with Windows when using Boot Camp AND they could be used that way at first in iOS emulation mode (when running an iOS App) and eventually offer some more OS X touch OPTIONS (I stress options as I don't think OS X should EVER get rid of mouse/trackpad support) as well. It wouldn't have to be bad to combine the two for some devices. It would be nice to be able to play some iOS games that haven't been ported to the Mac on a Mac, for example. That doesn't mean turn OS X into iOS.
Last edited:
I think with the RT it was price. Remember when they wrote them off and dumped them in a field somewhere? Microcenter found that field and offered them for $189 one Black Friday. The line went all the way through the store, out the door and all the way down the front of the shopping center. It was the busiest BF I'd ever seen there and for the first two hours it was all for the Surface RT. Granted, it was a crazy low price but people were very willing to part with $200 despite the bad press it had gotten, deserved or not.
I still think Microsoft is missing the mark though. Apple tends to think about experience first and then builds the hardware around it. Microsoft thinks hardware first then crams a terrible OS on it. To Microsoft's credit, at least they don't try to blatantly copy the design of Apple's devices. They are sleek in their own way and distinctive.
I agree though that more informed users will gravitate towards the device that supports their needs and steer clear of the MS vs Apple debate. I heard more than once how users enjoyed their SP3 and watched them sell well, but you'll never see an Apple engineer or exec show up at a Microsoft event and demo the latest version of iTunes for Windows, or iCloud on the web.
well aware of what an upgrade is, apple has them every year. Again, a wipe and fresh install is what you claim Apple recommends?
Bullocks.
If I had to do a clean install every time, I'd never update until I bought a new system. I haven't had problems this significant in the last decade, though I've always upgraded in-place. It's incumbent upon the OS vendor to get it right, before they declare it ready for prime time. And, while I'd accept a few fringe apps to have an issue or two, the MS Office suite isn't in that category.