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NAG

macrumors 68030
Aug 6, 2003
2,821
0
/usr/local/apps/nag
Not permanent is one thing. But not providing any true Heads up and EOL is another. Finding out in Feb of this year because it was that way in the beta is not exactly good.

Dropping support should of been announced when Leapoded was release that 2011ish is when it was going to drop support for it. This gives a lot more time to make sure things are updated and are going to prevent a lot of problems.

For a lot of software devs that is kind of a bomb shell to have to deal with update legacy code in a relatively short time span.

Microsoft for examle with Vista gave noticed what they were going to do and at least gave quite a bit of warning hey the older stuff is not going to work. Now did companies listen no. But they still gave it. Vista took heat for what was beyond MS control and W7 comes out and those problems were fix and MS also gave plenty of warning that in 64 bit version of windows 16 bit programs would not be supported. They gave plenty of warning.

Apple gave no warning and that is the key thing. It is the poor communication that is a problem.

I'll give you the no warning to the users as they do not pay attention to this and there will probably be some "Why doesn't x run in 10.7?" threads here come next month (along with "Where did Java/Flash go?"). They really should be more explicit there.

But I seriously cannot get behind your argument that developers were blindsided here. Rosetta was a transitional technology, just like Classic. It was meant to ease transition and then go away. I could understand your point if this was 2007 or even 2008. This is 2011. Relying on something that is clearly transitional for so long is blatant sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "I'm lazy, lalalalalal!"

This isn't like Carbon 64 where Apple was supporting it only to pull the rug out (even then there were some hints but it doesn't excuse Apple for faking devs out like that). Over half of Rosetta's webpage back in 2006 talked about talking to your developers about upgrading or sidegrading to a universal version of the app. Isn't that kind of a hint there?

I'd like to think being a good developer is being able to pick up on which direction the wind is blowing so you don't end up in a dead end and out of gas.
 

Vitaminp

macrumors newbie
May 4, 2011
4
0
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Man, it looks like my old copy of Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2 will have to go..

Well, You can always use a nintendo64 Emulator for that.... (sixty-force is good).
 

artguy3d

macrumors member
Apr 2, 2010
41
0
I have a "tool, not a hobby". My MBP just works and does all I need it to do using both Intel, and Rosetta-based apps. I'm a teacher of Mathematics and I cannot give up mission-critical Rosetta-based apps that I use for teaching. Add to that my personal needs (Quicken) that are functionally satisfied by SL and you have one individual who will not be upgrading to Lion for quite some time.
Yes I remember some cool math apps. I also sunk some $$$$ in one CAD software I still use because it has no equal...
 

NAG

macrumors 68030
Aug 6, 2003
2,821
0
/usr/local/apps/nag
Why didn't Apple create an optional buyable download for us Legacy users, I wouldn't mind paying an extra $5-$10 for PPC support.

All those saying PPC should go away and never return should start a fund for us "legacy users" to get current Intel software.
You can start out with me, I need a good working MOD player that can export to different filetypes, CS3 or better, and Office 08 or better.

Probably because unlike what some people are saying here this isn't about money.

Nah, Apple is evil. Silly me. :rolleyes:
 

amiganut

macrumors member
Jul 5, 2009
42
0
Florida
Looks like I'll be left out in the cold too. My PPC's still works with 10.5.8. Apparently that's as high as I can go. So, do I also loose my mac.com email account? No AppStore either? So, I'll be a 73 year old "orphan". No more updates or new Mac's for me. Thanks Steve.:mad:
 

cult hero

macrumors 65816
Jun 6, 2005
1,181
1,028
I read post like this and it becomes pretty clear that someone does not understand devolopment at all.

No one really rights new code that uses Rossetta. You have legacy code for some of the older stuff left over or installers. If something worse great you do not want to re do it because you risk a whole new world of hurt in the transition. In huge programs switching from PPC to x86 can cause loads of problems and have near zero gain. Cost to convert old code is just not worth it for how little they gain.

I understand development just fine. It's what I do for a living.

Apple has no desire to deal with PPC anymore. There's a reason they're dropping it, whether it be technical or monetary. If it was a simple as keeping a single package that made PPC stuff "just work" I can't imagine they'd get rid of it. The only thing that really annoys me about this is their lame policy on virtualization.

It's being removed from Lion. Deal with it. Snow Leopard is still supported and will be for the lifecycle of Lion so developers have plenty of notice.

Also... porting to Intel isn't "no gain." The gain is moving to the current supported hardware platform. Seriously, if your software isn't running Intel by now the developer is either lazy or has abandoned the software. This isn't an Apple specific problem.

There are going to be problems with this. There always are during transitions. Say hello to technological progress.

When I need to run stuff that's so "legacy" that it's beyond the supported threshold, it's often run on old machines running older operating systems, etc. This happens all the time.
 

lhammer610

macrumors regular
Aug 30, 2003
110
60
Lexington, VA
Honestly, they gave you 5 years notice. And you'll still probably have a year or two of maintenance/security updates on Snow Leopard before you really need to upgrade to Lion.

"need to upgrade"? I still have 10.4 on my G5 and iBook, while running 10.6 on my iMac. There are a few things that will not work on 10.4 (like snyc to an iPad), but I don't need them.

You can use 10.6 forever and it will still do the things it does now. Just don't upgrade programs.

I will not go to Lion 10.7 because of my older programs. I still use Office 2004 and have no reason to upgrade.
 

cult hero

macrumors 65816
Jun 6, 2005
1,181
1,028
What are the options? Switch to Windows to avoid getting burnt again and again? Apple caring solely for their profits is getting too ugly.

Snow Leopard is still supported and will be for the life of Lion. If you need long term legacy support, I gotta tell you, as a consultant I certainly wouldn't recommend Apple for a company or an end user. Linux and Windows are better choices for that.

You do you have a choice. You might not like it, but they exist.

Apple caring solely for profits makes them... hmmm... like every other BUSINESS out there. That's what businesses do. I'm not even condoning this behavior so much as I'm stating the obvious. Why people around here thinks Apple does or even should care about them is absurd. Their profit margins and sales numbers right now indicate that they don't need you.

Let me reiterate: make your decisions accordingly.
 

cult hero

macrumors 65816
Jun 6, 2005
1,181
1,028
I'd like to think being a good developer is being able to pick up on which direction the wind is blowing so you don't end up in a dead end and out of gas.

It was pretty obvious. If a company is phasing out hardware only a complete moron would believe that the software necessary to facilitate the transition would be long term—especially if it's Apple we're talking about.

And besides, Snow Leopard will be supported during the lifecycle of Lion, so it's not like anyone is just magically cut off either.
 

powers74

macrumors 68000
Aug 18, 2008
1,861
16
At the bend in the river
upgrade

What I find amusing is that there are people who want to upgrade to the latest operating system... But not update to the latest Quicken! Makes no sense. One of my printers is still using Illustrator 9 in OS 9. God help her.

"I want the latest, moistest cake, with all the best ingredients, with the oldest, crustiest, most stale frosting!" lol
 
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NAG

macrumors 68030
Aug 6, 2003
2,821
0
/usr/local/apps/nag
Looks like I'll be left out in the cold too. My PPC's still works with 10.5.8. Apparently that's as high as I can go. So, do I also loose my mac.com email account? No AppStore either? So, I'll be a 73 year old "orphan". No more updates or new Mac's for me. Thanks Steve.:mad:

@mac email: you'll have to convert it to an iCloud account but it will work just fine (it's just IMAP, even works in Windows, nothing special about it).

Rest of MobileMe stuff: You'll probably lose access to about everything else. You might be able to get your calendar and address book because I believe it is based on open standards (probably). But I wouldn't count on the majority of the functionality working. You'll be able to keep MobileMe until this time next year if that is any consolation.

AppStore: you never had it to begin with so yeah, you're not getting it. Apple never updates previous OS versions with new features, just security updates. Quite a few apps are also sold on the web, outside of the store (a few are not but those generally aren't compatible with 10.5 anyway as 10.6 is their minimum compatible target).

[...]The only thing that really annoys me about this is their lame policy on virtualization.[...]

I'm behind you on that one.
 
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lanceh5

macrumors member
Sep 23, 2007
97
0
My solution for the one iMac that has the older application is to boot from an external drive with OS.6. I am thinking about getting a 4 bay external that will will back up the old OS and 10.7. The other two Macs will run the new OS with their own external backups. I still occasionally use an ancient G4 tower with OS 9 to play my favorite game
 

jpale

macrumors newbie
Jun 13, 2011
1
0
Folks, you know your computer won't melt if you boot from an external drive or other partition on your startup drive that's running an older operating system.

A little inconvenient, but the last PPC machine was made 5+ years ago...you knew the day would come when the current OS would no longer support PPC software. At least you have options.
 

techwhiz

macrumors 65816
Feb 22, 2010
1,297
1,804
Northern Ca.
It's Not The Money; It's the Features

If the version of Quicken available now on the Mac had all the features of the 2005 version, I'd buy it now. It doesn't. They dropped support for QIF in the latest Mac version and you are stuck with an internal format that can't export and worse reporting than was available in the 6 year old version.

If it worked, I'd buy it. If anything worked I'd buy it.
iBank lacks some of the features I need. I'll try MoneyDance .
If you have a solution for Quicken, I'll stop moaning and buy it.
Otherwise; please don't pontificate about people wanting the latest OS but not wanting to spend the money on the apps.


What I find amusing is that there are people who want to upgrade to the latest operating system... But not update to the latest Quicken! Makes no sense. One of my printers is still using Illustrator 9 in OS 9. God help her.

"I want the latest, moistest cake, with all the best ingredients, with the oldest, crustiest, most stale frosting!" lol
 

Thunderhawks

Suspended
Feb 17, 2009
4,057
2,118
Farewell to UT99... wait, wtf? NO: farewell LION.

Apple should have Rosetta. I can live without Lion. I can NOT live without the dozen old programs I continue to use, and I'd rather not spend $2500 for new versions after $29.95 for a buggy OS that won't be consumer ready until late next year.

Anybody who has followed Apple's OS history and upgraded just MUST know that every major OS change requires re-buying some programs or running two
systems for a while.

They also MUST know that it takes a while before Lion will be stable. Thank you to all the early adopters testing for me what works and when Lion will be stable.

I don't subscribe to the MUST upgrade all the time to the latest.
Why, if everything works?

The time to upgrade is usually when the hardware goes to a new generation
 

aliensporebomb

macrumors 68000
Jun 19, 2005
1,908
332
Minneapolis, MN, USA, Urth
Yeah!

That's the end for the great little JAM editing software then.
Roxio has kept it going in a weak and almost worthless form as an extra in Toast, but the old stand-alone version was/is far superior.
A real problem as far as I'm concerned because I use this a lot for micro-crossfaded micro-edits and have found no better way of doing this.

Other stuff too - as a CD audio producer when not doing my day gig it let me
do things that nothing else would. My recent CD release would have been a bit
closer to what I was hoping for in terms of sequencing with it that's for sure.
 

ten-oak-druid

macrumors 68000
Jan 11, 2010
1,980
0
Rosetta was clearly being phased out.

Go install Snow Leopard and you will notice it is not part of the standard installation. You have to customize the installation and choose it or install later when you try to run older software and cannot.
 

NAG

macrumors 68030
Aug 6, 2003
2,821
0
/usr/local/apps/nag
Oh, gosh, yeah, QIF, I forgot about that. Sorry, man. Crusty frosting for you.

Why I'm glad I cut loose from Quicken around the time of the Intel switch. I had a feeling they were going to massively screw this transition up and what do you know. Not that it helps people stuck with Quicken now but I just feel like you're going to have to bite the bullet sooner or later because they've shown time and time again they just don't care about you.
 

Conner36

macrumors member
Feb 4, 2006
50
0
its all games

I dont know about everyone else but I run sheepshaver just to build marathon maps. I'm never gonna give up great games cause of an os. Great games shouldn't have to be re-bought to "update" the experience. So what... do I care that I now have to spare a few gigs on my TB external drive and boot just to play PPC games? When you're in a gaming mood its a half-minute boot compared of the hours of upcoming game time don't matter much.
This new approach I think will keep me focused and more distraction free... now if we could only get an update to make this internet thing obsolete I might get back to work :)
 

lpetrich

macrumors member
Nov 26, 2009
39
0
The main thing I'd want continued PowerPC support for is Mark Widholm's MathPad, a simple graphing-calculator app.

It's a PPC Carbon app, so it will need some rewriting to use Cocoa.
 

Amdahl

macrumors 65816
Jul 28, 2004
1,438
1
At the time of the PPC/Intel change, Steve Jobs announced Rosetta as a stop-gap so that PPC applications wouldn't be immediately redundant. But such measures can only be short-term. I'm amazed that Apple's kept it up this long.

No, Rosetta was not a 'stop-gap' to prevent PPC apps from being immediately redundant.

Rosetta was a requirement to keep Mac OS X alive so that it could survive a heart transplant courtesy of Intel. No Rosetta = no Mac OS X on Intel. It couldn't have been done otherwise, or it wouldn't have been called OS X.

As for why Apple drops Core 1 chips and Rosetta: Because they can, and because it makes you buy new stuff. There is no yesterday in the world of Steve.

What Are You Going to Buy Today? :apple::apple::apple:
 

laflores

macrumors regular
May 5, 2011
139
1
Costa Rica
Ok, I have several PPC software running:

DivX (probably there is a newer version that I haven't installed)
Microsoft Query (I don't know what it does, so I don't really care)
Robolab (software for my Lego Mindstorms set, I will miss it but I can use it in PC)
Spyder2PRO (color calibration software)

The only thing I really need is the Spyder2PRO, does anybody knows if there is another software that I can use with the Spyder 2 calibration hardware?
 
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