OS X Lion to Drop 'Rosetta' Support for PowerPC Applications

[MacAddict1978]

I think anyone using Rosetta got 3 more years than anyone should have expected. Apple supported this far longer than I thought they would have.

Can something obvious happening really be called a "bomb shell?"

Dropping support after 5 years is IMO unreasonable, considering that people were still purchasing power pc machines. Most software was released dual binary up until the past couple of years for that reason. You can't say "oh five years" and dismiss the issue. Lion isn't a drastic change as compared to say Windows 7 Vs. XP. (And doesn't Win7 still run XP software?) Mac OSX didn't evolve to a point where this is a technical issue with the OS and can't support it, Apple just isn't. I have very few things that aren't at least dual binary, but some dual binary software still had power pc installers, many game titles (something the mac is very limited on and always has been) haven't been updated and won't be. A lot of you saying you don't have any power pc software left might not even realize that you do because Rosetta is just there in the background. You probably have some game like Collapse or something that you take for granted, and won't work when you upgrade.

Supporting OS 9.... yeah, I was somewhat understanding of dropping classic support. But I do hate to say, Microsoft at least supports previous generations of software much longer than Apple does. I'm sure someone will find a hack for this eventually.

I can live without it (goodbye old gamehouse games though) but a lot of people are screwed with some things.

 

[Eolian]

Another program unavailable in an OS X Intel version is Canvas, once the premier Mac drawing package, but acquired by a company that reformulated it into a high-end Windows-only package that costs about as much as a Mac Mini. I use Canvas a few times a week, and I've literally got decades of Canvas files, many of which I use on a regular basis ...

I use Canvas X quite regularly on my Core 2 Duo for multi-layer mapping projects in particular. Been working with it since 97 (?) So many powerful vector+image editing features working harmoniously together. Wonderful program.

 

[MacAddict1978]

And Starcraft/Warcraft as well....is it possible for game developers like Blizzard to add Intel support for their legacy titles? It'd be nice....

I'm glad you said that... to piggy back on my previous post, companies are still selling that software. A new Mac owner might have bought the Warcraft chest yesterday at Target (as they sell it), and if you read the system requirements (and on LOTS of software) it doesn't say "Requires Rosetta" just a PowerPC G4 or higher...

And no, Blizzard has stated they will not be updating those titles, even though they are still selling them. Lucas Arts is another company still selling titles that won't work with Lion. And many more

 

[GoKyu]

The only thing I really need is the Spyder2PRO, does anybody knows if there is another software that I can use with the Spyder 2 calibration hardware?

Spyder2Pro is pretty old at this point. I bought mine in 2005, and upgraded about 2-3 years ago. I may need to upgrade again to the ColorMunki so I can have a current app and current hardware.

 

[SkippyThorson]

I don't think anyone's brought up simply connecting to an old Mac.

Let me use the example of my own home. I was in the crowd of 'I won't upgrade to Lion' for a while, and I was pretty adamant about it. I want to be able to run my copies of Office 04 and Office 08, which are both strictly PPC - they aren't even Universal, and certainly aren't Intel.

I like Word because of the ease of use, and the fact that when I hit CMD+S, and CMD+D, all I do is name it, and a preset .doc file is saved to my desktop. Pages is not that simple - every time I need to save, I need to select .doc... I can't preset what I want the file type to be each time I save. On top of other things, I am very used to Word, and like most things, there's no reason to switch to something new when I'm so used to something that just works.

Well, I thought of a solution that's been in front of my face the entire time... I have an iMac G4 in the bedroom, perfectly capable of running both versions of Office should I need anything. If I leave them on that Mac, when I need them, they'll be there. Then I have iWork on my MacBook should I need them as well.

No need to dual boot, and no need to let them go. In the combination PPC + Intel homes, having another system specifically for those PPC applications is a decent medium-ground solution to keeping everything or getting rid of it all. That's what I'll be doing. I want Lion, and I want Office. I think it's a fair trade as opposed to shelling out for something yet again.

 

[KurtangleTN]

You've gotta love these people that think developers should go back and spend time and money on older applications or games because Apple switched to Intel when the solution (Rosetta) worked perfectly fine for most apps.

There is no practical reason to drop Rosetta, it's tiny, it doesn't run if you don't need it to (hell it isn't even installed by default). I could see if it was some bloated garbage slowing OS production down but the reality is it's a great piece of software that works as it should.

The only thing this does is hurt the long term users who supported OS X. Kudos Apple!

 

[vrillusions]

I'm not sure what's going to happen now. All our software at work is up to date but the printer driver for a copier runs rosetta. There is no new driver available and the copier is EOL I think.

 

[InuNacho]

There is no practical reason to drop Rosetta, it's tiny, it doesn't run if you don't need it to (hell it isn't even installed by default). I could see if it was some bloated garbage slowing OS production down but the reality is it's a great piece of software that works as it should.

Somehow it holds back moving forward and something about being bloated and Pepto Bismol.

 

[ShiggyMiyamoto]

I don't know if anyone mentioned this, since I didn't want to read through hundreds of posts, but if you really need to run programs that likely won't be upgraded to run on Lion without Rosetta functionality, then why not use something like CrossOver Office? It's essentially WINE for Intel OS X and it runs many Windows programs atop of OS X, and you'll forget you're running a Windows program. I don't know if Quicken (newer version for Windows) works, but CrossOver Office has a free 30 day trial download at http://www.codeweavers.com. There's even a version for games (Windows games, but still).

I hope this helped.

 

[ucfgrad93]

The switch to intel has been going on since 2005.

I hate to break it to some people but its probably time to upgrade.

Agreed. It is time to move along.

 

[InuNacho]

Agreed. It is time to move along.

Not everyone wants to spend a couple hundred bucks on newer versions of PPC applications that run perfectly well.

 

[Snowy_River]

I dont know about everyone else but I run sheepshaver just to build marathon maps. I'm never gonna give up great games cause of an os. Great games shouldn't have to be re-bought to "update" the experience. So what... do I care that I now have to spare a few gigs on my TB external drive and boot just to play PPC games? When you're in a gaming mood its a half-minute boot compared of the hours of upcoming game time don't matter much.
This new approach I think will keep me focused and more distraction free... now if we could only get an update to make this internet thing obsolete I might get back to work

I think that this represents the real solution, and a solution that I really wish Apple formally allowed. Imagine if Parallels were allowed to run client Mac OS X machines. They could be configured to be PPC or Intel. They could run OS 9 or OS X.

The problem I have with SheepShaver is that it seems to be abandon ware. Last time I checked it had been five years, or something, since an update had been posted. That, and the fact that it always seemed to run in a rather unstable fashion on any machine I installed it on...

I don't know if anyone mentioned this, since I didn't want to read through hundreds of posts, but if you really need to run programs that likely won't be upgraded to run on Lion without Rosetta functionality, then why not use something like CrossOver Office? It's essentially WINE for Intel OS X and it runs many Windows programs atop of OS X, and you'll forget you're running a Windows program. I don't know if Quicken (newer version for Windows) works, but CrossOver Office has a free 30 day trial download at http://www.codeweavers.com. There's even a version for games (Windows games, but still).

I hope this helped.

Yeah, no. You're still talking about switching programs, finding replacements for them and, in most cases, spending money buying those replacements. Not to mention that CrossOver is not the most stable environment to run apps in. I've had to coax them into giving me several trial periods because I download CrossOver to see if it works with an app that I'm trying to run, find that it doesn't, then trash CrossOver. Then, they come out with an update "Now works with even more apps!", and I start all over again. It seems the only apps that I care about trying to run in CrossOver just aren't supported well, because I've never had a successful time with it.

Not everyone wants to spend a couple hundred bucks on newer versions of PPC applications that run perfectly well.

Not to mention the issue with trying to find replacement applications for those apps that were never updated to run Intel native...

 

[caspersoong]

Apple seems to push everyone to upgrade too fast, especially all the mobile devices. Just 3 years or less and their OS becomes obsolete (in the sense they don't get updates)

 

[krischik]

Hardware

So, an upgrade to Lion means I have to upgrade my Scanner (with Transparency Adapter) as well which is of course significaly more then $29. That and the uncertain Java support will mean that I stick with Snow Leopard.

And no, Preview is no replacement to the original Epson software. Only yesterday a page scanned with Preview where bluish while the Epson software would scan a perfect white.

And yes, the scanner is old. But it still works and does all I need. Why should I replace it then?

 

[Tyr.]

So can't we install a VM and load 10.6 (or earlier) on that and avoid the need to reboot to use PPC applications?

Yes, I've heard OSX is supported by VirtualBox, which is free so worth a try. I know it works under VMWare Fusion because I've got a 10.5 vm running. Technically for Fusion only OSX Server is supported but you can get around that restriction with a small script that floats around the internets. If you can't be bothered to make your own virtual machine there are pre-mades floating around the torrent sites if you are so inclined (don't see the harm if you own an original copy anyway.)

 

[IVIIVI4ck3y27]

The strange thing is that majority of Apples business now uses ARM, with is a version PowerPC.

Actually... it isn't PowerPC at all. ARM has existed for a long time in parallel with PowerPC and isn't based at all on any of the specifications that IBM and Motorola created when forging ahead with PowerPC ages ago. ARM was the processor of choice for the Apple Newton. While PowerPC and ARM in some ways share a similar play in the embedded market... so does Intel and Texas Instruments and others that have smaller efficient processors that they've used in a similar fashion.

Saying ARM is a version of PowerPC is like saying IA-64 was a version of x86-64 or that DEC's Alpha was a version of Sun SPARC. There might be some synergies or similarities or potentially similar applications... but they're far from one and the same.

 

[Tyr.]

At work I (and many other Mac users here) rely on tn3270, a free IBM terminal emulator, to access our mainframe database. Because tn3270 hasn't been updated in several years, it of course runs via Rosetta on my Snow Leopard iMac here at work. I just wrote to the developer about the issue, and, to my delight, he responded by saying that he is working on a universal binary version and even sent me a beta copy to try out. Would that all developers out there be this responsive!

Just in case it doesn't work out there's an open source terminal emulator called x3270 you can install through macports.

 

[vivid-mist]

Starcraft/Diablo NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! D:

I still lan those games quite regularly with mates when there's free time. Wouldn't be so disappointed if SC2 supported LAN

 

[Modeller]

Death of Canvas

I have used Macs since Performa 850 days, and Canvas as long, (V 3.5) and now using V9 on a MBP 10.6.6 running fine. ACD have fumbled the ball here, not Apple, who have always been fair with updates etc.

Sad to lose Canvas when I move to Lion but inevitable. The only proper 2D non CAD vector app worth having for Tech drawing work.

The best of the rest after extensive testing is Vector Designer (TweakerSoft). Very smooth and capable app, but missing Dimensions, Scale, and a few minor things. Well worth a thorough trial as much is below the surface. Cheap enough also!
The Wizaerds forum is helpful for Canvas users.

 

[Truffy]

Lion isn't a drastic change as compared to say Windows 7 Vs. XP. (And doesn't Win7 still run XP software?)

Lion is 64-bit where it counts, so it's pretty major in that respect. And it's not really equitable to compare W7/XP since they run on the same (current!) architecture. PPC is gone, 5 years gone.

 

[D-Dave]

Lion is 64-bit where it counts, so it's pretty major in that respect. And it's not really equitable to compare W7/XP since they run on the same (current!) architecture. PPC is gone, 5 years gone.

5 years may seem much to you, but in corporate IT this is not realy a long time.

Considering that in a business enviorment software is often not "of the shelf" but highly customised or even specifically programmed to suit the individual needs of a company this can result in the need of MAJOR investments. Adding to this that apple is not too kind on long term support for it's OSs (think security patches) this can be a real pain for businesses.

Personally i think this is THE major reason why Apple will not likely grow into a major player in the (PC-)businessworld. While it works great in the private sector to be all mysterious about new versions of software and hardware, this is realy a dealbreaker for IT-departments as they need to plan ahead if they have more the a few dozend systems to administer.

Looking at the company i work at, i would fight with clwas and fangs to prevent a move to apple Hardware and OS X because I just don't know what they will be up to in a year from now and as much as anyone may have an issue with windows or linux they are very dependable and planable in this aspect. (just one example, the software that registers arrivals and departures of employees in my company is more then 10 years old but still works just fine running on XP. A replacement that will be compatible with windows 7 and above on the other hand will be an investment of about 50.000 € + a couple of weeks of intesive work to transfer the data to the new system, considering the amount of employees)

 

[marmotmammal]

Dropping Rosetta was expected. It had to happen eventually. I'm not sure if some of my obscure software still needs Rosetta. If/when I upgrade to Lion, I'll find out.

 

[Andrew*Debbie]

i'll miss diablo 2...

...but that's ok, 3 isn't far (hopefully )

+1

I may install boot camp just to run Diablo II on Windows

 

[haravikk]

Where is Rosetta actually installed to and how does it work? It just seems that, while it certainly makes sense not to bundle it, that surely if you have a Snow Leopard disk with Rosetta on then why not just let users continue to install it?

The only thing I can think of are the options that appear in the Finder window for forcing a program to run in Rosetta but really the Finder should be able to handle such modification. Is there any chance of the Rosetta code being made available such that the open-source community could update it to work in Lion?

I still have a few PowerPC programs, and a bunch of games, that I won't be able to run, and I'm not thrilled about having to set-up emulation when Rosetta is an optional install that works just great.

 

[JonB3Z]

So, an upgrade to Lion means I have to upgrade my Scanner (with Transparency Adapter) as well which is of course significaly more then $29. That and the uncertain Java support will mean that I stick with Snow Leopard.

And no, Preview is no replacement to the original Epson software. Only yesterday a page scanned with Preview where bluish while the Epson software would scan a perfect white.

And yes, the scanner is old. But it still works and does all I need. Why should I replace it then?

Shouldn't you be asking Epson why they don't support their product by updating their software to operate with current versions of operating systems? They've had five years to update their software to Intel code and haven't bothered to do so, apparently. Or they could just ensure that their current software product (I assume they have one) supports older scanners such as yours.