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OS X Lion to Drop 'Rosetta' Support for PowerPC Applications

Mac4Brains said:
... The one part of windows I do like is the legacy support. ...

...

This is getting a little frustrating Steve!:mad:
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And Windows is mired with its own problems as a result of this. It's a trade off. Some people were weeping and wailing when Apple killed the floppy drive on their systems. I wasn't one of them.
 
cult hero said:
You don't HAVE to upgrade either.

No one is being "forced" to do anything here.

Lion will not support Rosetta. Make your decisions accordingly.

People still using PPC based software clearly aren't a large enough number for Apple to care about or... they would.
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You're yelling at the wrong person. If you read my post in context I was replying to a person jokingly saying you should use the Windows version and I was saying that was silly called the person's joke by just flat out saying don't buy the software because at some point you'll have to upgrade your computer and you'll potentially lose data due to the company being incompetent. I in no way said the word "forced" as you quoted so I have no idea if you're actually referring to me there or someone else as I have actually supported the idea of not upgrading if you don't want to (in fact in the post just above yours).

So yeah, hope that clears things up so you can turn off your caps lock gun.
 
Virtualization?

So can't we install a VM and load 10.6 (or earlier) on that and avoid the need to reboot to use PPC applications?
 
NAG said:
Which brings up the question, why do we have Sim City on the iPad and iPhone but not for new macs? What is going on there?
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No one is buying for the Mac. People are buying for iDevices though. That's all it is.
 
cult hero said:
No one is buying for the Mac. People are buying for iDevices though. That's all it is.
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I see your iDevice developing and raise you a "look at the iDevice ported games in the Mac App Store"...what the hey, all in with "EA would port a game to run on your toaster if it made them a buck".
 
cult hero said:
You don't HAVE to upgrade either.

No one is being "forced" to do anything here.

Lion will not support Rosetta. Make your decisions accordingly.

People still using PPC based software clearly aren't a large enough number for Apple to care about or... they would.
Click to expand...

I just think that they SHOULD.

We stuck with them back in 2006 when they switched the last Macs to Intel processors. I think they should support the established base one more OSX release. They have the money to do this right but obviously they just don't want to. I think it is a bad call. They have made very few mistakes in the past but I think this is a big one.

Many people haven't noticed what programs and installers actually use the old code but when the OSX Lion upgrade breaks software people use - that's when we'll really hear the complaints.
 
NAG said:
You're yelling at the wrong person. If you read my post in context I was replying to a person jokingly saying you should use the Windows version and I was saying that was silly called the person's joke by just flat out saying don't buy the software because at some point you'll have to upgrade your computer and you'll potentially lose data due to the company being incompetent. I in no way said the word "forced" as you quoted so I have no idea if you're actually referring to me there or someone else as I have actually supported the idea of not upgrading if you don't want to (in fact in the post just above yours).

So yeah, hope that clears things up so you can turn off your caps lock gun.
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Sorry about that. I wasn't even griping at you so much as I happened to quote your post for an idea I've seen spewed over and over on this thread.

I just keep reading posts where people have this idea that they "deserve" the newest software and also "deserve" to have support for whatever ancient software they decide to use.

Also, I keep my caps lock gun loaded here (primarily because I'm WAY too lazy to use bold or italics for emphasis).
 
cult hero said:
And Windows is mired with its own problems as a result of this. It's a trade off. Some people were weeping and wailing when Apple killed the floppy drive on their systems. I wasn't one of them.
Click to expand...

That was one change I did agree with. I get more out of my thumb drive anyway. and even today I have the choice of getting one if I need it.
 
artguy3d said:
I just think that they SHOULD.

We stuck with them back in 2006 when they switched the last Macs to Intel processors. I think they should support the established base one more OSX release. They have the money to do this right but obviously they just don't want to. I think it is a bad call. They have made very few mistakes in the past but I think this is a big one.

Many people haven't noticed what programs and installers actually use the old code but when the OSX Lion upgrade breaks software people use - that's when we'll really hear the complaints.
Click to expand...

They have the money to do it "right"? This depends on what your definition of "right" is. To me, the "right" thing to do is to kick deadbeat developers in the rear.

You know what happens when you don't do that? You get programs that refuse to run as a non-administrative user like Windows had for what feels like centuries as this point.

Some people would argue they did they "right" thing. "Right" is entirely subjective here though.

Also, at the end of the day, whether it's Apple or Microsoft or whoever... they're gonna do what's "right" for their shareholders and that equates to profit margins. Apple does not care about you. They never have. They care about your money, just like every business out there.
 
artguy3d said:
I just think that they SHOULD.

We stuck with them back in 2006 when they switched the last Macs to Intel processors. I think they should support the established base one more OSX release. They have the money to do this right but obviously they just don't want to. I think it is a bad call. They have made very few mistakes in the past but I think this is a big one.

Many people haven't noticed what programs and installers actually use the old code but when the OSX Lion upgrade breaks software people use - that's when we'll really hear the complaints.
Click to expand...

Why?

No really, why?

Why is it doing it right to continue including Rosetta?

Why do they only have to include it for one more release?

Why is it even a money thing?

I swear we're seeing the bargaining phase of coping with loss here.

I have a few questions more, actually.

Why were developers continuing to develop exclusively for the PPC when it was clear Intel was the future?

Why did the developers not care enough for their customers to provide them with a more future proof version of their product?

Why did they go so many releases over half a decade and not address this?

...

Is this a money thing?
 
cult hero said:
They have the money to do it "right"? This depends on what your definition of "right" is. To me, the "right" thing to do is to kick deadbeat developers in the rear.

You know what happens when you don't do that? You get programs that refuse to run as a non-administrative user like Windows had for what feels like centuries as this point.

Some people would argue they did they "right" thing. "Right" is entirely subjective here though.

Also, at the end of the day, whether it's Apple or Microsoft or whoever... they're gonna do what's "right" for their shareholders and that equates to profit margins. Apple does not care about you. They never have. They care about your money, just like every business out there.
Click to expand...

I read post like this and it becomes pretty clear that someone does not understand devolopment at all.

No one really rights new code that uses Rossetta. You have legacy code for some of the older stuff left over or installers. If something worse great you do not want to re do it because you risk a whole new world of hurt in the transition. In huge programs switching from PPC to x86 can cause loads of problems and have near zero gain. Cost to convert old code is just not worth it for how little they gain.
 
Free Freehand

Shimiko said:
Freehand users (like me) are crying now.
Click to expand...

Maybe the boys over at FreeFreehand.org will have some luck with their lawsuit against Adobe and Freehand's code will be handed over to someone who cares.

Really - couldn't they (Adobe) just recompile the code to work natively under OSX without having to rewrite the whole thing to make us Freehand users happy -- I'd gladly pay for an OSX native upgrade.

http://www.freefreehand.org/ffh_newsletter13.html
 
CalCanuck said:
Maybe the boys over at FreeFreehand.org will have some luck with their lawsuit against Adobe and Freehand's code will be handed over to someone who cares.

Really - couldn't they (Adobe) just recompile the code to work natively under OSX without having to rewrite the whole thing to make us Freehand users happy -- I'd gladly pay for an OSX native upgrade.

http://www.freefreehand.org/ffh_newsletter13.html
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recompiling in theory would work but on anything large the reality is no not always and chances are would introduce a lot of bugs.
 
djrobsd said:
Seriously, does anyone still use Quicken on a Mac? If not, they REALLY need to get with the times. Intuit obviously doesn't care about Mac users, and the software is absolute junk... I hated using Quicken when I got my first Macbook Pro 5 years ago...

Besides, there are so many hosted services out there like Mint.com that do a much better job and work on all platforms.
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Call me paranoid, but I don't like the idea of managing my finances with cloud-based applications.
 
cult hero said:
They have the money to do it "right"? This depends on what your definition of "right" is. To me, the "right" thing to do is to kick deadbeat developers in the rear.

You know what happens when you don't do that? You get programs that refuse to run as a non-administrative user like Windows had for what feels like centuries as this point.

Some people would argue they did they "right" thing. "Right" is entirely subjective here though.

Also, at the end of the day, whether it's Apple or Microsoft or whoever... they're gonna do what's "right" for their shareholders and that equates to profit margins. Apple does not care about you. They never have. They care about your money, just like every business out there.
Click to expand...

Well you have a point about developers.

But I'm more interested in the end user here as that is me. Lazy developers are probably not going to change. Even big companies - how long since Epson released any new drivers that are compatible?

I have a 44" archival ink $15K printer and I know Epson won't get un-lazy and develop a Lion driver for it.

So now I have to look at new $2,500 rip software, and time to implement? Oh I might find and test something cheaper than that, but what a waste.

And that's just one thing of many things that Lion will probably break...
 
Rodimus Prime said:
I read post like this and it becomes pretty clear that someone does not understand devolopment at all.

No one really rights new code that uses Rossetta. You have legacy code for some of the older stuff left over or installers. If something worse great you do not want to re do it because you risk a whole new world of hurt in the transition. In huge programs switching from PPC to x86 can cause loads of problems and have near zero gain. Cost to convert old code is just not worth it for how little they gain.
Click to expand...

This ignores the reality of Rosetta never being meant to be a permanent thing. The whole 10.6 not including Rosetta by default should have been a huge flashing red light for anyone who was paying attention in the slightest.

Apple gave them years of warning. This is like a teenager riding a bike with training wheels claiming that he thought all bikes just came with them. Apple was pretty blatant about this transition.
 
Not a Problem.

Seriously, tell me that you guys really can't figure this out?

Set up a small partition on a drive (internal or external) and install Leopard or Snow Leopard. Install all your legacy software.

Hold down the 'option' key when you boot. Instant choice.

Come on guys, you knew that. This isn't windows - multiple boot drives? It just works on a mac.

And thanks apple for letting go. Legacy is for Windows. :D
 
That's the end for the great little JAM editing software then.
Roxio has kept it going in a weak and almost worthless form as an extra in Toast, but the old stand-alone version was/is far superior.
A real problem as far as I'm concerned because I use this a lot for micro-crossfaded micro-edits and have found no better way of doing this.
 
NAG said:
This ignores the reality of Rosetta never being meant to be a permanent thing. The whole 10.6 not including Rosetta by default should have been a huge flashing red light for anyone who was paying attention in the slightest.

Apple gave them years of warning. This is like a teenager riding a bike with training wheels claiming that he thought all bikes just came with them. Apple was pretty blatant about this transition.
Click to expand...

Not permanent is one thing. But not providing any true Heads up and EOL is another. Finding out in Feb of this year because it was that way in the beta is not exactly good.

Dropping support should of been announced when Leapoded was release that 2011ish is when it was going to drop support for it. This gives a lot more time to make sure things are updated and are going to prevent a lot of problems.

For a lot of software devs that is kind of a bomb shell to have to deal with update legacy code in a relatively short time span.

Microsoft for examle with Vista gave noticed what they were going to do and at least gave quite a bit of warning hey the older stuff is not going to work. Now did companies listen no. But they still gave it. Vista took heat for what was beyond MS control and W7 comes out and those problems were fix and MS also gave plenty of warning that in 64 bit version of windows 16 bit programs would not be supported. They gave plenty of warning.

Apple gave no warning and that is the key thing. It is the poor communication that is a problem.
 
kevin2i said:
Seriously, tell me that you guys really can't figure this out?

Set up a small partition on a drive (internal or external) and install Leopard or Snow Leopard. Install all your legacy software.

Hold down the 'option' key when you boot. Instant choice.

Come on guys, you knew that. This isn't windows - multiple boot drives? It just works on a mac.

And thanks apple for letting go. Legacy is for Windows. :D
Click to expand...

Problem is you can't dual boot and print, or access some old program you need to use concurrently. Really about the best solution would be to run windows in Parallels and utilized the legacy drivers that way. But there are performance reasons I don't like running Windows all the time.

Love the SSD on my laptop by the way - it just limits the space for inelegant solutions like dual boot.

Rosetta was actually a elegant software solution in that it was invisible and just worked when you needed it.
 
Guess I'm going to just say no...

I have a "tool, not a hobby". My MBP just works and does all I need it to do using both Intel, and Rosetta-based apps. I'm a teacher of Mathematics and I cannot give up mission-critical Rosetta-based apps that I use for teaching. Add to that my personal needs (Quicken) that are functionally satisfied by SL and you have one individual who will not be upgrading to Lion for quite some time.
 
Why didn't Apple create an optional buyable download for us Legacy users, I wouldn't mind paying an extra $5-$10 for PPC support.

All those saying PPC should go away and never return should start a fund for us "legacy users" to get current Intel software.
You can start out with me, I need a good working MOD player that can export to different filetypes, CS3 or better, and Office 08 or better.
 
cult hero said:
You don't HAVE to upgrade either.

No one is being "forced" to do anything here.

Lion will not support Rosetta. Make your decisions accordingly.

People still using PPC based software clearly aren't a large enough number for Apple to care about or... they would.
Click to expand...

What are the options? Switch to Windows to avoid getting burnt again and again? Apple caring solely for their profits is getting too ugly.
 
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