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How is this hard to understand?

When you are done with "Letter to mom.doc" Close the F*ing Window

I mean, come on ... Are you people functional in society?

No, it is not hard to understand that I can repeat command-W until all windows are closed, and then do command-Q. What is hard to understand is why this new workflow is needed, what great benfit the "open all previous documents on launch" gives the userbase, on a desktop computer.

Since you seem to be so very good with words, maybe you can explain that.
 
No, it is not hard to understand that I can repeat command-W until all windows are closed, and then do command-Q. What is hard to understand is why this new workflow is needed, what great benfit the "open all previous documents on launch" gives the userbase, on a desktop computer.

Since you seem to be so very good with words, maybe you can explain that.

There is also Command-Alt-Q. It closes the app by first closing it's open windows. That should be the shortcut that saves the state, not discards it. Command-Q should discard the state.
 
There are actually many security issues, depending on the situation. Imagine being at a customer premises. You want to open a file, word comes up and shows a document that belongs to another customer, because that is what you have been working on before. The document can be read from everyone present.

If you are done with confidential material, close the window.

I agree that it would be nice to be able to say "Open this app clean" as well as only being able to close windows before you close the app, but that's also a really easy third-party app to write if Apple doesn't provide it at the OS level for you.

There have been many bug reports on that and Apple acknowledged the issue! Another issue is that if someone gains access to the cache files, he can easily find what you have been working on.

As opposed to, say, the files already on the disk, the MRU list per app, etc.

If you are working on something and need to be covering your tracks from first-level disk analysis (ie, not low-level analysis, just looking at what the file system tells you up front) then you have a lot more to worry about than the Resume feature ratting you out.

Apple wants from us to always remember how we should proceed with a document and decide before closing an app. that totally changes the way we work.

Change, yes. But, I don't see how forcing one approach (you can not close the app until you are done with the document) is better than forcing the other (you must close the document when you are done with the document). I see the latter as intrinsically better in a document-oriented OS, as it better links the effect on a document (you are done with it) on an action on the document (you close its window) instead of on an action on the application which happens to be editing it.

Again, yes it is a change, and some people will have embarrassing situations no matter what change is made to any system anywhere.


I quote a post on the Apple beta forums:"Fully agree, especially the security risk (both shutdown/start upas well as starting an app and opening windows). I do salary planning and the other day started an app and voila the last salary plan I had worked with came up. If i had been at the office it wold have been a MAJOR issue."

Again. This is a security risk ONLY DURING THE PERIOD OF CHANGE. It is not a move from a secure system to a less secure system (you could keep that app and that window up but obscured by Safari windows currently, and have it pop into view when clicking the dock icon or opening another document in the app). The move has nothing at all to do with security.
 
For those that want to start an app in a clean state. Hold shift while clicking in the apps icon. It will discard the saved state and open the app in a pristine state.
 
I reckon Apple's view will be that this is a non-issue to the VAST majority of users, who use the red button to mean "close/quit/I'm done with this." Those users, who I guess are over 90% of Mac users, will never be bothered with Resume unless they for example have a forced or semi-forced system restart, or shut down the computer for the night with everything running.

Those relatively-few of us who have learnt to use a keyboard shortcut to "properly close" an app -- Cmd-Q -- and now are running into issues with unwanted resumes -- will either have to learn to use Cmd-Opt-Q (or whatever it is) instead, or perhaps leave behind the notion of controlling what is "running" on our computers and start using Cmd-Opt-W. Or just turn the whole Resume thing off.

It shouldn't be too big of a deal, IMHO.
 
For content creation apps I can see your point. Can you please tell me why the Mac Preferences, QuickTime, Preview, and zillion other apps that consume content have Resume? I do not want QuickTime to always reopen my videos. I forget all the time t first close all open windows and then the app.

Reading a PDF document in Preview.

Watching a movie in Quicktime.

Browsing web sites in Firefox.

All of these I, personally, would rather have resume right where I left off when I reopen them.

In all cases I already close the document when I am done with it primarily because I tend to multitask (poorly, as everyone :) ). If I'm reading something in Preview and then go do something else, which inevitably involves opening something else up in Preview, I already am in the habit of using Cmd-W to just close the window instead of Cmd-Q to close out all of Preview. Same can be said for Quicktime and Firefox. When I'm done with something, I close that window, not the whole app, because usually when I close the app I'm going to lose state on something else I was doing before I got distracted :)

I'd also caution that any division based on "content creation" versus "content consumption" is fraught with peril. I mean, a web browser would be the near-canonical "content consumption" app, yet here I am creating content in it.
 
No, it is not hard to understand that I can repeat command-W until all windows are closed, and then do command-Q. What is hard to understand is why this new workflow is needed, what great benfit the "open all previous documents on launch" gives the userbase, on a desktop computer.

Since you seem to be so very good with words, maybe you can explain that.

Because on a desktop computer I read long PDF documents and would like to open up Preview and see the same document that had been there when I last closed it to go work on something else.

Because on a desktop computer I develop applications consisting of multiple interrelated source code files that I'd like to all be open again when I come back to my IDE.

Because on a desktop computer I would like to be able to open my web browser and be right where I was when last I left off.

Because on a desktop computer I want to be able to quit all applications which are "running" but not relevant to me at the moment in order to save resources and unclutter, secure in the knowledge that when I get back to whatever it is I am taking a break from (or, return to my next break from whatever it is I will now be working on) my desktop computer will be at least as good at remembering what I had been doing as I am.
 
I'd take Resume with a Web Browser, not with QuickTime, sometimes with Preview. If the App Crashes, I'd (almost) always want Resume, but not like this though.

When you Force Quit an App, next time it launches it offers a Window "Start New Session" or "Open Old Windows" (doesn't say that exactly, but you get the general idea).

Now if they could simply make it so that it offers that box each time you launch an App which wants to Resume (or after an Emergency Re-Start....)

Its not a big coding change, they just need to expand the box's coding. Then everyone is happy. They who want to Resume can simply click Re-Open All Windows, those who don't, can simply choose New Session.

Its not a hard change to implement..............
 
Because on a desktop computer I read long PDF documents and would like to open up Preview and see the same document that had been there when I last closed it to go work on something else.

Because on a desktop computer I develop applications consisting of multiple interrelated source code files that I'd like to all be open again when I come back to my IDE.

Because on a desktop computer I would like to be able to open my web browser and be right where I was when last I left off.

Because on a desktop computer I want to be able to quit all applications which are "running" but not relevant to me at the moment in order to save resources and unclutter, secure in the knowledge that when I get back to whatever it is I am taking a break from (or, return to my next break from whatever it is I will now be working on) my desktop computer will be at least as good at remembering what I had been doing as I am.

I don't want to save resources. My Mac Pro has plenty! I don't want my OS to be optimized for small screens (full screen mode) and behave like iOS. I need more than that.
 
I did not had the patience to read through all posts so maybe this has already been answered.

Of course "resume" can lead to embarassing situations but more important is: What happends if I open a document which is located in a password encrypted disk image? When the application quits, does it will reopen it from disk and hence ask for the password or are there some traces in memory? Are there traces like the last search in a document? The position of the selection in the document? In memory?

Quitting an application often times was the most safe thing to do to erase all data. Also if you have a corrupted application (Acrobat as an example), this helped many times.

Actually one feature which I rather would like to see is UndoWindowClosing. It happends sometimes that I accidentally close a window and need to find the document again, search in the Finder, scroll to the correct position, etc. just because I accidentally pressed cmd-W while the wrong window was active.
 
I don't want to save resources. My Mac Pro has plenty! I don't want my OS to be optimized for small screens (full screen mode) and behave like iOS. I need more than that.

Unclutter is the #2 reason for me. It might be #1 for others (resources be damned).

If you don't care about resources and dock/task-switcher clutter, though, why would you be quitting apps now instead of closing windows? Just habit?
 
Unclutter is the #2 reason for me. It might be #1 for others (resources be damned).

If you don't care about resources and dock/task-switcher clutter, though, why would you be quitting apps now instead of closing windows? Just habit?

It is just habit. It is the way Mac OS X has lead us do things. Now everything changes. I have nothing against it when a change is for the good, but this time I don't see any benefits for me.
 
I despise the very concept of resume, always have.

Aside from the fact it has massive privacy implications, it won't even work right. Apple can't even get iOS to do this properly - apps frequently don't quit tidily. A proper computer with actual multitasking that needs to use it's RAM on a regular basis is just going to perform like crap.

Thank god you can turn it off on a global level. It'll be the first thing I do.
 
It seems to me that with resume, Apple is trying to make Cmd-Q the new Cmd-H.
Too bad they didn’t keep the meaning that most people give to Cmd-Q, which is "close every document and get rid of this app, I’m done with those documents and that app". Particularly since they already had a way of telling the OS "get this app out of my sight for now, but keep it in its current state, I’ll get back to it (and the documents open in it) later": that’s Cmd-H.
Augmenting application hiding with a way to preserve the application state even if the OS quits it in the background or if the computer restarts would have seemed to make more sense than redefining what quitting an application means. Weird…
 
I think it would work better if, instead of "Quit", there was a "Quit" option, and a "Quit and Save State" option, with command+q defaulting to "Quit and Save State"

Yeah, kinda like "Empty Trash" and "Secure Empty Trash" -- I like this idea or something along these lines. I wonder what "Force Quit" will do -- sometimes I force quit because hte current application state is actually causing problems for the application and I don't want it to resume to that state.
 
Force Quit asks if you want to Restore All Windows or Start New Session, like I said above. If they expanded that so it asked you that each time instead of just Auto-Restoring, then that would make everyone all around happy I think.....
 
Force Quit asks if you want to Restore All Windows or Start New Session, like I said above. If they expanded that so it asked you that each time instead of just Auto-Restoring, then that would make everyone all around happy I think.....

Do you really want a dialog box popping up every time you open any app?
 
Would you prefer opening Porn in the Office because you forgot to close the Window before closing the App?

Or really anything. TextEdit, opens an old Document when you open TextEdit, or when you open a TextEdit Document.

You're seriously telling me you'd rather just have Resume pop up anything and everything rather than be able to just choose? Rather than have to deal with a Pop-Up Window each time you open an App?

Besides, Lion is all about supposedly keeping the Apps open, but just closing the Documents right? So you won't even be seeing the Pop-Up that often.
 
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Yeah, a lot more people are going to get caught watching porn inadvertently. I can't see that ending well.
Doubt it--they are probably the same people who think that hitting the red "X" quits the application instead of just closing the window. In other words, they're already one step ahead. :)
 
Force Quit asks if you want to Restore All Windows or Start New Session, like I said above. If they expanded that so it asked you that each time instead of just Auto-Restoring, then that would make everyone all around happy I think.....

i had a game open that was unsupported by lion (which i didn't know) and it messed up my whole screen letting me click nothing at all and i couldn't even use short cuts or anything to get out of it. the first thought anyone would have is, force quit the laptop but with resume, it just opened the freaking game at the same error and i had to restore my lion partition
 
The point is that you shouldn't even close the app. You should close the window and nothing else.

Well some people (for whatever reason....) will still keep Quitting Apps. If you don't want to Quit the App, this won't affect you as much. You'll just get the Pop-Up what, every time you Re-Start/Log Out?

For everyone else, it means no embarrassing situations, or issues like the one below:
i had a game open that was unsupported by lion (which i didn't know) and it messed up my whole screen letting me click nothing at all and i couldn't even use short cuts or anything to get out of it. the first thought anyone would have is, force quit the laptop but with resume, it just opened the freaking game at the same error and i had to restore my lion partition
Perfect example of where Auto-Resume totally fails. And btw, ouch! That really sucks :(
 
I think this is an intrinsically useful feature... but it needs to be deployed with full disclosure for how it works and enough options to get it to work in the way that the user wants. Having a per-application checklist for this would also be great.

One poster mentioned that if you hold shift while opening the app it will do a "clean" boot up of the program... these types of option are what I meant by "full disclosure and options". And I use the term disclosure because Apple has a weird habit of having a lot of hidden shortcuts and options. I say hidden because they don't really tell you about these shortcuts in a clear and direct way. Sometimes they do, sure, like command S and Q are all in the file menu... but some of the more elaborate tricks and shortcuts using the keyboard and even gestures are things that I've never seen in their documentation... I've only discovered them through chance or through friends and colleagues. What's the point of having features and shortcuts if 98% of people don't know about them!

But I digress, sort of. Having options (ideally when quitting AND opening a program) to use or not use resume would basically resolve any issues people may have... along with the checklist of apps so you can choose what programs to have resume or not. These are very simple things to implement, and they do need to be implemented via the OS. Not third party add ons. I don't want to buy an OS that I then need to clutter with third party products just to implement basic OS level functionality...

But overall, resume will be very handy. There are so many times where I'll have 20 different browser windows and tabs open and I put my computer to sleep for many nights because I need to get through all those pages before shutting down... Like major change to an OS, this will require some getting used to, but I think it will be pretty handy! As long it's implemented well.
 
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