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You can still call that planned obsolescence but there is one thing that's for sure, Apple always pushes what the OS can do graphically with the current cards available. If that means a few older machines won't be able to run smoothly or have they look they want then they get cut.

You want to see desktops that really push what an OS can do graphically? Look at current versions of Gnome, KDE or even Unity. OS X does not have nearly as much eye candy as those desktops - and the Open Source platforms require much LESS hardware to get that job done than Apple's rather boring OS X desktop.

What Apple does IS planned obsolescence, end of story.
 
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Cult of Mac points to a report from French site MacGeneration highlighting the system requirements for OS X Mountain Lion. Among those Macs currently compatible with OS X Lion, those with lower-end Intel GMA X3100 or GMA 950 integrated graphics will not be able to upgrade to Mountain Lion:Users of those older systems may still receive a few of Mountain Lion's enhancements such as with Apple's Safari 5.2 for Lion, but the vast majority of improvements will require a new machine with higher specs.

Update: At least one developer tells us he has been able to install Mountain Lion on a Late 2006 iMac and MacBook Pro without problems. So, the developer builds do not seem to enforce these restrictions.

Update 2: Systems using ATI's Radeon X1600 graphics will also be incompatible with OS X Mountain Lion.

Article Link: OS X Mountain Lion Drops Support for Many 2006-2008 Macs with Integrated Graphics

I found these lists on osxdaily.com's page.

Basic System Requirements for OS X Mountain Lion:

64-Bit Intel Core 2 Duo processor or better required
Ability to boot into OS X 64-bit kernel
Advanced GPU chipset required
Internet connection required to download and install OS X 10.8

Macs that will support OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion
As usual, the newer the Mac the better:

MacBook Pro – 13″ from mid 2009 or later, 15″ from late 2007 and newer, 17″ from late 2007 and newer
MacBook Air – late 2008 and newer
iMac – models from mid 2007 and newer
MacBook – 13″ aluminum from 2008, 13″ from 2009 and newer
Mac Mini – early 2009 and newer
Mac Pro – early 2008 models and newer
XServe – early 2009 models and newer

Macs that are NOT expected to support OS X Mountain Lion
Older Macs and those with weaker GPU’s will likely be left behind:

Anything with an Intel GMA 950 or x3100 integrated graphics card
Anything with an ATI Radeon X1600
MacBook models released prior to 2008
Mac Mini released prior to 2007
iMac models released prior to 2007
Original MacBook Air

Link:
http://osxdaily.com/2012/02/16/os-x-10-8-mountain-lion-system-requirements/
 
Apple makes its money selling hardware, not software (like Microsoft). The software is simply a tool to facilitate more hardware sales and that's exactly how they are using it these days.

Why I agree with everything else that you wrote, I completely disagree with that assessment. Apples does not make its billions with selling hardware. Their content supply chain is their real cash cow. Apple generates a lot of turnover with hardware sales, but those hardware also costs a lot in R&D and production. Of course, their hardware business is extraordinarily profitable. But I don't think that Apple really is mainly a hardware company. It seems so at the first glance, but once they've sold you the car, you see that they make even more money with fuel and the service around the car.

And with Dungeon Keeper (oops: Gatekeeper) being the next "revolutionary" new feature of Mountain Lion, they will even sell more fuel because most users won't dare to flip that switch and drive to a competing gas station.
 
You want to see desktops that really push what an OS can do graphically? Look at current versions of Gnome, KDE or even Unity. OS X does not have nearly as much eye candy as those desktops - and the Open Source platforms require much LESS hardware to get that job done than Apple's rather boring OS X desktop.

What Apple does IS planned obsolescence, end of story.
Which is why I explained what their thought rationale was. For the umpteenth time, I'm not defending Apple!

Why I agree with everything else that you wrote, I completely disagree with that assessment. Apples does not make its billions with selling hardware. Their content supply chain is their real cash cow. Apple generates a lot of turnover with hardware sales, but those hardware also costs a lot in R&D and production. Of course, their hardware business is extraordinarily profitable. But I don't think that Apple really is mainly a hardware company. It seems so at the first glance, but once they've sold you the car, you see that they make even more money with fuel and the service around the car.

And with Dungeon Keeper (oops: Gatekeeper) being the next "revolutionary" new feature of Mountain Lion, they will even sell more fuel because most users won't dare to flip that switch and drive to a competing gas station.
Apple constantly asserts that they make their money selling hardware, period. They also claim that most of the money they make selling services goes into running the service itself (very little profit).

Whether or not that is true only they know.
 
So all my data is gone when i reinstall the lion over mountain lion? or is it always kept safe? I do time machine backups though :)

You would have to format your computer to reinstall Lion over Mountain Lion because Lion is older then Mountain Lion.

I have this MacBook Pro and the developer preview for Mountain Lion installed perfectly fine on it (and its running great so far, much better than Lion).
 
Then we can't say anything because that IS the reason. They aren't making enough money. They want more. They want you to buy a new machine every other year at a minimum. No, there is NO OTHER REASON. Apple makes its money selling hardware, not software (like Microsoft). The software is simply a tool to facilitate more hardware sales and that's exactly how they are using it these days.

I'm so SICK of hear this steaming pile of an argument. It evades the issue ENTIRELY and suddenly we're all koombaya buddies with Apple again. Bologna.

In many cases, I would agree with you. I was merely asking if anyone knew of a specific, concrete technical reason for this (someone mentioned a lack of pixel shaders with an older and similar scenario, for example). Wether this specific case is planned obsolescence or not is still debatable... Apple is a company that has always moved forward, often at the expense of their older users and older hardware... I realize that Apple is a hardware company, no question about that... and there are absolutely cases of software upgrades related to planned obsolescence (Siri, I'm looking at you). I was just trying to find some specific and concrete details on the nature of this exclusion from Mountain Lion.

I do agree with you when you say that the argument that existing computers will still function as usual is a "steaming pile". That type of argument is completely besides the point, at least in this type of scenario. If a software update truly requires updated hardware to run, then excluding older hardware is completely understandable, and perhaps even unavoidable. But for more minor software updates that exclude old hardware without legitimate reasons, that's simply a douche-move. A money grab. And as much as I love the new features that Mountain Lion will bring, they are at the end of the day "minor upgrades", so I wonder if the older integrated cards are truly incompatible with the new OS.

And that's why I asked my question in the first place, to see if anybody knew some relevant details on what kind of legitimate hardware limitation the old integrated cards may create. Sometimes there are specific or obscure limitations in older hardware, beyond the overall power or ability of that hardware. Wether that's the case with the integrated graphics and Mountain Lion remains to be seen though...!

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Why I agree with everything else that you wrote, I completely disagree with that assessment. Apples does not make its billions with selling hardware.

Every time I see the sales breakdowns from Apple, the vast majority of their earnings and profits do actually come from hardware. The money they get from software and iTunes, etc., is actually quite small. And I was always surprised at how small that type of income was, compared to their hardware sales. That's been a very consistent trend from all the data I've seen from the past few years.

Just saying. :)
 
wow ... 2008 machines are NOT very old! I can't believe they'd drop support for them so soon. Oh wait, based on the last year ... yes I can.
 
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DavidRavenMoon said:
I just don't like how I am forced to update my OS every year or so for new things because my current operating system will no longer have support, and then in this instance update my computer every couple of years to use these new Operating Systems. I have a 10.6 machine sitting next to me with some features happily working, and others I know will not within a short amount of time.

You don't have to upgrade every year. I didn't upgrade my last mac since 2007 because Apple dropped PPC support. It didn't stop me from doing anything. I usually do update the OS every year because I enjoy having the latest version.

One one hand because it was a G4, I couldn't use the newer versions of the Adobe suite. On the other hand, switching to Lion meant I have to upgrade some of my software, like ProTools, because the version I have sopped working. So there are pros and cons to both. I might fix my old G4 and use that for ProTools.

But there are no security risks from using a 5 year old OS X because there are not really any security risks for Macs to start with.

As far as support, they can only go so far back. MS doesn't update old versions of Windows anymore. The only difference is that Apple releases new OSs more often. Windows is at 7, while OS X would really be at 17.

Don't get caught thinking windows seven is the seventh version of windows, it's not.
 
Every time I see the sales breakdowns from Apple, the vast majority of their earnings and profits do actually come from hardware. The money they get from software and iTunes, etc., is actually quite small. And I was always surprised at how small that type of income was, compared to their hardware sales. That's been a very consistent trend from all the data I've seen from the past few years.

Just saying. :)

What apple is doing is yeah might be good in the short term but this tyep of stuff pisses people off and will make them want to break out of the Apple garden and say "screw you Apple." The next time their computer comes up for replacement they leave Apple and go Windows. It is the behavior.

BS software blocks and planned obsolescence tends to piss people off. Cell phones they can get away with killing support after 2-3 years as phones only have an average life span of around 18-20 months (upgrade cycle)
Computers on the other hand tend to have a much longer life span these days. 6+ years is pretty common to still see them in use.

The problem with Apple is they kill support for them and when Apple drops support for older OS so quickly so it kills getting the other software on the computer upto date.
 
Why I agree with everything else that you wrote, I completely disagree with that assessment. Apples does not make its billions with selling hardware. Their content supply chain is their real cash cow. Apple generates a lot of turnover with hardware sales, but those hardware also costs a lot in R&D and production. Of course, their hardware business is extraordinarily profitable. But I don't think that Apple really is mainly a hardware company. It seems so at the first glance, but once they've sold you the car, you see that they make even more money with fuel and the service around the car.

You're right. I forgot about Apple's 33% take on all those apps for iOS...apps they had NOTHING to do with making, but scam 1/3 the profit for anyway. That probably is their biggest money maker now and selling more iPhones in one year than Macs in the past 28 means MEGA money per app on average.
 
4 years is pretty old in terms of consumer supported life for a device. Heck, some hardware doesn't survive the 3 year barrier in enterprise support.

It doesn't seem very long to me anymore. Computers are pretty much out of the peak performance increase mode they were in during the late '90s to mid 2000 years. Clock speeds are more or less at their peak and not a lot of software is taking advantage of multiple cores as well as they would need to make up for the slower increase in performance. Graphic cards have a ways to go yet, but much of the gaming has moved back to consoles these days so in many cases there is simply NO NEED for a lot more more power at the consumer level. We're seeing instead big increases in the Phone/Tablet sector where there is still plenty of room for big gains.

But this idea that a 4 year old computer is out of date is ridiculous. I'm typing on a computer made in 2001 originally (with an updated CPU) and while the web is slowing down (due to needless/pointless over-the-top web pages that are so inefficient these days to make one's head spin and load like MOLASSES on my iPod Touch 4G (so yeah they should consider their code), overall, the machine is still plenty usable and it's a DINOSAUR compared to my 2008 MBP which is faster than any person would need for ordinary day-to-day activities. I run Logic Pro on it and it's still faster than I need to make any given music track (32+ tracks per song).

Most Mac users aren't gamers (the old standby reason in the past for most high-end PC owners to keep upgrading), so exactly WTF do people need a new computer for every 3-4 years??? The answer is they really don't and this is why Apple has taken to artificially giving them the old shove. How long do people keep their car? Some get a new one every 2-4 years and some keep it for a decade. If it were up to "green" Apple, they'd make the gas pumps incompatible with cars older than 4 years so they have to buy a new car to put gas in it without a siphon. :rolleyes:

What apple is doing is yeah might be good in the short term but this tyep of stuff pisses people off and will make them want to break out of the Apple garden and say "screw you Apple."

I agree. I was waiting for the new Intel chipset upgrade to the Mac Mini to buy one as a replacement for my aging PowerMac server, but I'm starting to wonder if that's the best idea the way Apple is acting lately. I bought that PowerMac used in 2006 to use as a server and with a few small upgrades, it did a great job for 6 years as a server for my whole house system and as an Internet terminal, but it's showing its age now. But think about that. It was already 5 years old when I got it and it's just now at the point where I think it could use a replacement (lack of HD video viewing capability on the Net for one thing). But it shows the difference between Apple of the past and Apple of today. This thing often came with OS9 on it and yet I could get OS updates right up through Leopard! A lot of software no longer worked after Snow Leopard abandoned it, but I could at least keep it as a server since iTunes and browser updates were maintained for several more years).

But now we're looking at a cycle of 3-4 years to dump support (may get sooner over time for all we know) with 'major' updates to OSX now coming at an interval closer to 1 year than 2 years, which means software will likely dump support for given hardware completely within 5-6 years with at least some dumping it right at 3-4 when the new OS comes out.

Meanwhile, PCs from 2001 can still get support with XP on them and some machines from around that time can even be made to run Windows 7. At the very least, one buying a PC today can be nearly certain that their computer will have OS and software support for at least 8-10 years. Whether they need it that long is another matter, but you can at least be sure that if the hardware is still useful to you, so will the software.

I don't like Windows that much. I never did. But I can't ignore the fact the value per dollar for OSX machines is getting worse and the hardware was always a premium to begin with. If you pay 2x as much for your computer, the last thing you want to see is that it will be useful for 1/2 as long. That equates to a 400% premium. Yeah, is it worth that much? Windows7 really isn't a bad operating system at this point (like crashy '98 or problematic Vista) and features are close to parity for the most part these days (although Windows still runs circles around OSX for gaming throughput both in terms of driver support and keeping DirectX up-to-date; Apple can't even get OpenGL up-to-date. They're always like 4 versions behind and that doesn't seem to be changing. I haven't heard a peep about improvements in that area with all these new Lion and Mountain Lion updates.) Frankly, I'm going to have to seriously reconsider whether my next major computer is even going to run OSX. The lack of malware still has a strong draw to me, but then I've never actually acquired any major malware on my XP or '98 box before that so maybe it's more overblown worry than actual danger for my uses.
 
Dropping support for my X3100-based Macbook purchased less than 4years ago verges on the unethical. Especially so given the putative emphasis of Mountain Lion on security. They could simply exclude some older machines from graphics-intensive features, if there are any.
 
Heres my understanding of the problem...

Reading between the lines, and if what Anandtech says is true...

1) 32-bit EFI cant load 64-bit kernel
2) Apple can easily rebuild their existing GMA950/X3100 and Radeon x1600 kexts as 64-bit kexts. However didn't see the point because point 1) would have make them impossible to load.
3) Surely the only question remaining is: why did those machines come with a 32-bit EFI chip at that time (4-years ago)?
4) Why we can't now upgrade our 32-bit EFI to be a 64-bit EFI ? Whats the deal there?

If we assume its impossible to load a 64-bits kernel. Since with tools like rEFIt we should have figured out how to do that by now over the last year with Lion.
 
Reading between the lines, and if what Anandtech says is true...

1) 32-bit EFI cant load 64-bit kernel

Yes, it can, the first 2008 Unibody Macbook has a 32 bit EFI (I know, I owned one) and still can run Mountain Lion, so that is not the issue at all.

It has nothing to do with EFI.

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Dropping support for my X3100-based Macbook purchased less than 4years ago verges on the unethical. Especially so given the putative emphasis of Mountain Lion on security. They could simply exclude some older machines from graphics-intensive features, if there are any.

Unethical ? 4 years for EOS is pretty standard in the consumer industry. It's not like it will stop working anyway, it will go on working fine with Lion.
 
Yes, it can, the first 2008 Unibody Macbook has a 32 bit EFI (I know, I owned one) and still can run Mountain Lion, so that is not the issue at all.

It has nothing to do with EFI.

If thats not the issue then... what exactly IS the issue you are referring to?
 
As the guys over on The Verge put it, integrated graphics aren't to blame for the drop of support. It's about having a 64-bit EFI and 64-bit kexts for the GPUs.

But the integrated graphics tend to be the ones without 64 bit kexts, so the end result is similar. 64 bit EFI with unsupported graphics still won't run it.
 
Unlike Microsoft, who tries to dumb their OS down to the lowest common denominator, Apple strive to progress their products towards a better experience. Windows will still run 20 year old software and install on hardware that is embarrassing (or just old). Is that better for the consumer than what apple is doing by requiring better hardware for the best experience rather than to try an appease everyone? I don't think so.

Apple just wants to ensure that as they move their platforms forward, people who use them are getting the best experience they can with the hardware they have. If that means culling the playing field substantially, they're ok with that.

Lucky for me, both of my macs will be upgradable to 10.8, but somewhere down the line, I'll be forced to buy a new machine to get whatever the latest version is, and I don't see that as a problem. I'd rather have a great experience instead of hating my computer because they allowed inferior spec'd machines to run the latest version.
 
If thats not the issue then... what exactly IS the issue you are referring to?

What issue was I referring to ? The issue discussed in this thread : "OS X Mountain Lion Drops Support for Many 2006-2008 Macs with Integrated Graphics". I was simply stating it's not about 32 bit EFI since a lot of the supported Macs actually have 32 bit EFI.

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Unlike Microsoft, who tries to dumb their OS down to the lowest common denominator, Apple strive to progress their products towards a better experience. Windows will still run 20 year old software and install on hardware that is embarrassing (or just old). Is that better for the consumer than what apple is doing by requiring better hardware for the best experience rather than to try an appease everyone? I don't think so.

Dumbing down doesn't mean what you think it means.
 
Not that I am surprised at all by those results. Often time as newer OS are made they try to take more advantage of the more powerful hardware. That in-tune causes it to run a little more slowly. The only OS that I have seen things really get faster is going from Vista to Windows 7.

Now yes as time goes on the hardware gets better and goes beyond what the older OS can use. I know if I put XP on my laptop it would slow down the computer compared to windows 7 but that is because my laptop hardware can not fully be used by windows XP due to the limitation of XP both being 32 bit and I do not believe it can take full advantage of the CPU. Nothing can be done about those short coming as XP is over 10 years old.

As for the graphical excuse people are coming up with to defend Apple. Sorry I call that crap. Look how MS dealt with the problem. Windows Aero is disable on computers that can not use it. In XP it would disable transparency on computer hardware that could not run it.

Code wise it is really not that hard to do it. Throw that part of the code in a try catch block. Apple has poor error handling there. And for those who do know know yes you can write, and throw your own errors as well. It makes handling some things a lot easier to throw your own custom errors. Just make sure you handle them.

Exactly! Even OS X used to do that. Up until Leopard I think.


You want to see desktops that really push what an OS can do graphically? Look at current versions of Gnome, KDE or even Unity. OS X does not have nearly as much eye candy as those desktops - and the Open Source platforms require much LESS hardware to get that job done than Apple's rather boring OS X desktop.

What Apple does IS planned obsolescence, end of story.

I agree 100%...
There are things that Apple does these days that just annoys me.
 
I'm shocked that they are already planning for another OSX within about a year of the last one. From a business perspective, it makes sense due to the price of recent OSX versions: release sooner, more and make more cash. $29/yr instead of $129 every 2.5 years or so, and drop hardcopy media and booklets and boxes and shipping and distribution etc
Well, if people were not always buying the latest OS/computer/whatever (which they shouldn't, in my opinion), they would not have a valid point in releasing sooner. IMO, it's a bit of people's fault as well.

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Dock Expose still exists, but it's called App Expose now. If you're using a trackpad (either on a laptop or with the Magic Trackpad), you can three finger swipe down to show the open windows for the app currently in the foreground. Alternatively, you can hover over an icon in the dock and three finger swipe down to show the open windows for that particular app.

I actually find this implementation far more useful than the way it was done in Snow Leopard, to the point where I actually use it now. I never used it much in Snow Leopard. Some will be disappointed that a trackpad is required, but gestures play such a big role in Lion that even iMac users should consider picking up a trackpad.

Control-F3 seems to do the same for foreground apps, as well.

Is it just me, or is using solely the keyboard for Exposé no longer available in Lion? For instance, with F9 (show all windows), I could use the arrow keys to select a given window and bring it to the front. Now, I don't seem to be able to (=the mouse is required). I've searched for a setting about that, but didn't find any. I missed it?
 
The annoying thing is apple doesn't NEED, more of my money, i've got an iPhone 4 and when the 5 comes out i'll have that! when the ipad 3 comes out i'll buy that as well! they're getting nearly £1,000 already on mobile devices.

I would seriously considering switching to a none apple made machine if they stop supporting my macbook. I'm not paying any more money for a mac I don't need yet!!
Why not simply considering interrupting upgrading?
 
I was simply stating it's not about 32 bit EFI since a lot of the supported Macs actually have 32 bit EFI.

Well this is entirely my one point of disagreement with you. We could check those dropped models against a list here:

http://www.everymac.com/mac-answers...-bit-macs-64-bit-efi-boot-in-64-bit-mode.html

However its a little more pleasant to consult this easy, informative article about EFI, and whether it matters or not:

http://osxbook.com/blog/2009/08/31/is-your-machine-good-enough-for-snow-leopard-k64/

If that article is correct... then sure we can load a 64-bit kernel from a 32-bit EFI. However the exception is that the Non-Volatile RAM of the Mac is not accessible by the kernel. Personally I have no idea what the implications are of that. Whether it would make a standard (unmodified) OS X kernel crash when trying to read NVRAM addresses. It probably would, but anyone really know for sure?

It might work. Or it might not work. Without the necessary 64-bit graphics drivers it remains difficult for anybody to prove / disprove either way.

For 64-bit EFIs of course this Macrumors story - its absolutely correct. Machines with a 64-bit EFI should 100% work unless Apple fail to provide the necessary 64-bit kext for the graphics chip. But not quite the same limitations apply for earlier machines with 32-bit EFIs.
 
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