Other Mobile Phones with Similar Signal Loss Issues

[lilo777]

Not meaning to accuse anyone of crying wolf here, but all the videos and pictures demonstrating this effect look to have the iPhone 4 held in a very specific and deliberate way. Obviously I'll have to wait until I can get my hands on one before I know for myself if it's a problem in everyday usage, but I've tried to hold my iPhone 3G this way and it feels awkward and unnatural - not to mention my palm gets in the way if I try to hold it to my ear to make a call.

Also, bars are not an absolute or even a relative measurement of signal strength between different devices. Saying that your 3GS stays on 5 bars before and after, while the iPhone 4 goes from 5 bars to 1 bar is a useless comparison. You should work out how to compare SNR and attenuation, as well as a whole series of speed tests between this and the 3GS. I'm sure Apple has done all of this and the net result is better, otherwise they would've scrapped this design.

It seems what we are seeing is the usual 'look for a problem and you'll find it' syndrome that happens with every new and exciting tech release. I second what a poster above said which is to just forget about it, use it naturally, and if it's a noticeable problem then to get a refund or do what you have to do.

Right, just like BP scrapped their drilling rig when they learned that there were some safety issues. Are you really that naive? Apple is in this business for money and money only. If they thought that they could get away with this flaw nothing could stop them. After all they overcharge customers on each and every item they sell.

Or like Apple scrapped one button mouse design immediately once they learned that everybody hated it.

 

[Skoal]

I can demonstrate this on my 3G with a case on. If I grip it on the bottom half it will go from 5 bars to 3 bars very quickly. I can reproduce it easily.

This is a "case" of people being told something is a problem when it is really just normal and then everyone molesting their phones and freaking out.

It is not a figment of my imagination that I would go from 4 bars to no service nearly every time! I dropped three calls to the same person in a matter of 5 minutes. And yes, this happened before I started reading about other people having the issue. Sorry but it's a fact. I have a case on it now and the problem is gone but then I always planned on a case from the get go.

 

[DMann]

Out of interest, has anyone with a working iPhone 4 posted a video of an iPhone 4 NOT encountering this issue?

Yes.

I'll be happy to make one as well - no signal loss whatsoever while gripping from all sides.

 

[Jeezusisme]

I think we all need to calm down. Buy the first batch of any new product and you will probably run into a few issues. That's the choice you made when you pressed that pre-order button... Or at least that was MY choice....That being said.... I have 4 iPhones with me here 2 32 GB and 2 16 GB...none of these 4 phones display ANY signal drop... Not any more than previous generations anyway....doesn't seem like your "procedure" is going to prove much of anything other than YOUR iPhone is a bit of a dud.... Go get it replaced.... Back it up first of course....it'll be free I promise .....and if the next one has signal drop issues... Get it replaced again....by the third exchange.... You should have a piece of hardware that works..... Or you won't.... Either way.... Just go out and have a beer... Relax....

I have tried this test on both my iphone4s and a friends. Positively repeatable.

First, make sure wifi is off.

Now, place the iPhone on a table or hold it without bridging the antennas.

Load a web page.

Now, hold the phone so your thumb bridges the left corner insulation strip.

Try to load a web page... Doesn't load.

Release hand from insulation strip.

Page loads.

Apple owes us all at least a stupid cover. Or this will get ugly.

NO, this is not AT&T's fault. In any way.

 

[cromwell64]

ridiculous

this whole thing is ridiculous. nobody should be defending apple over this obvious design flaw, when industrial design is supposed to be apple's leg up on the competition. this is a glaring mistake, and of course they are going to refuse to admit that it is the flaw that it is.

I had planned on getting a bumper "case" anyway, and still will, so this will not affect me. either way, this is a major ***** up on apple's part and there is no defense for it. every anti-apple zealot who points out this flaw will be correct, while every apple fanboy who tries to pretend that this is acceptable is living in their own delusional reality. As far as I'm concerned every ad for this phone should show it with a sleeve of some sort if it is advertising its cell phone functionality and not treating it as a glorified ipod touch.

so... either the phone is great if you planned on getting a case for it (or have tiny hands), or it is fatally flawed if you don't want a case. If I did not plan on getting a case I would be much more upset over this issue than I am. As it is though, I can not see any way to defend Apple over this super obvious flaw, since some people don't want to spend an additional $30 for a case they never planned on buying.

This is something that should've been caught and remedied in the testing phases. Simply saying that this is a non-issue is utter bull*****.

So... even though I still plan on getting an iphone 4 with a bumper case, Apple's response to this issue has left a bad enough taste in my mouth to start to reconsider. There is some defense for the issue itself, but absolutely no defense for Apple's official response to the issue.

 

[firewood]

Nope. That's not what surprises people. People are surprised that whilst other phone companies understand how antennas work and hide phone antennas inside the phones Apple was stupid enough to come up with a flashy but flawed design which places antennas in the most vulnerable position.

Apple is smart because they understand that hiding the antenna inside the shell makes the phone bigger and reception worse in marginal conditions. The antenna on the outside is the best place for it in weak reception areas, if you want the thinnest phone with a large battery, and if you hold the phone on the other side.

Yes it is vulnerable, but you have the choice of how good reception you want or need by how you hold the phone (or what kind of case you use), not the poor compromise that other vendors offer.

If you want a poor compromise, buy a huge case for your iPhone 4. Then the antenna will be inside.

I got a bumper. It's a moderate compromise that moderately makes the "problem" better. I lose only 2 bars instead of 4 or 5 when holding the lower left corner with the bumper, similar to the loss with gripping my 3G.

My PalmOS Treo did NOT have the problem. Instead it had a huge ugly antenna bulge sticking out the top. Too retro. Is that what you want?!

 

[LYFK]

Why doesn't Apple just give away free bumpers to those people who are experiencing signal issues due to the capacitive coupling and when customers come in to receive their bumper, they can schedule an appointment to get their phone replaced at a later date?

Problem solved.

 

[kcbyers]

Yeah, same here on both my 3gs and my 3g!

same here with 3 X 3GS's

 

[coolbreeze]

Okay, so I do stand corrected from my previous video.

I saw this document which contained the specific location of the EVO antenna...

(see the attachment)

Then I decided to do another video:

Video of awkward ways to hold the EVO to achieve iPhone like results...

Now, as you can see, the EVO does drop some signal...however just LOOK at how I am holding it. Very akaward. NOBODY holds their phone like this. Even if you are left handed. This brings up HTC's apparent engineering brilliance...they actually thought to place the antenna where virtually nobody would ever interfere with it. It seems AAPL's design placed the antenna smack in the left lower edge of the phone...right where the 90% of worldwide right-handed humans hold their phone.

I don't know...this seems like amateur hour on Apple's part to me. Yes the antenna is closer to my head with the EVO (i.e. not at the bottom of my device) but we're all going to die of cancer so it doesn't matter... (heh). I really don't think having the antenna 4 inches lower will *magically* (trademark) prevent cancer.

You make the call. I say HTC has the better design... *gasp!*

I'm no fanboy for HTC (first product I've ever owned) but I will say as a former iPhone and iPhone3GS owner, I have finally seen the light. There ARE better options out there kids...

 

[chrono1081]

are you kidding me? not just how to hold it, in what direction the phone is hold can also contribute the signal strength. all cell phones have the same issue.

+1. I sold cell phones for two years thats why I was surprised when I saw this being an "issue". Most phones you can hold your hand over the antenna portion and watch the signal drop.

Whats funny is people never bitch when their bars are empty yet they still receive a crystal clear call....someday people will be non-stupid and realize that the antenna bars on a cell phone are an estimate only and not to freak out over stupid things.

Not to mention, if you don't like it, don't BUY the freaking thing. So many cry babies on this board act like apple owes them something. If you don't like it, *gasp!* don't buy it! Or if you don't like it *gasp!* return it!. I didn't by the motorola droid because I didn't like it and I thought the touch screen was too unresponsive, but you don't see me flipping out on the droid boards over it. I simply DID NOT BUY THE PHONE.

If you purchased a brand new item expecting it to be perfect in every way you obviously no NOTHING about the electronics industry. Go work at a best buy and see how many items get return defective. Trust me, its a lot.

 

[teknishn]

Okay, so I do stand corrected from my previous video.

I saw this document which contained the specific location of the EVO antenna...

(see the attachment)

Then I decided to do another video:

LINK

Now, as you can see, the EVO does drop some signal...however just LOOK at how I am holding it. Very akaward. NOBODY holds their phone like this. Even if you are left handed. This brings up HTC's apparent engineering brilliance...they actually thought to place the antenna where virtually nobody would ever interfere with it. It seems AAPL's design placed the antenna smack in the left lower edge of the phone...right where the 90% of worldwide right-handed humans hold their phone.

I don't know...this seems like amateur hour to me.

You make the call. I say HTC has the better design... *gasp!*

(video uploading)

Except the antenna is right on your ear giving a higher dose of radiation. It's the left handed users that are affected btw, not the right

 

[MikeSmoke]

Must be the 512 Ram. Glad my iPad only has 256.

 

[teknishn]

For what its worth, I read an article earlier about older 3G and 3GS doing this exact same thing. The key was iOS 4. With iOS 3.x the problem didn't occur. My wife just got home with her 3GS and for ***** and grins I grabbed her rig and tried the same thing everyone is doing with their iPhone 4s. Low and behold the 3GS immediately dropped all 5 bars down to 1.... and when I say immediately, it was much more rapid drop than on the iPhone 4.

It seems to me that Jobs may be unaware of a potential software bug in iOS4. I have no idea, but food for thought anyway.

 

[danimal99]

Except the antenna is right on your ear giving a higher dose of radiation. It's the left handed users that are affected btw, not the right

Left-handed users like me hold the iPhone in their right hand. That way I can poke the screen with my smart finger, not my goofy one on the hand that throws like a girl.

 

[sneezingdog]

Obviously the severity of signal loss seems to be different for everyone. I simply cannot hold my phone with my left hand or I will drop a call or lose signal completely. I lose bars instantly if I barely bridge the gap between the bottom and top. I wouldn't complain or care if I lost a bar or two (as was the case on my other iPhones) but I never lost complete service just by holding them.

yes! this is what is happening to me. I have 4 to 5 bars 3G and I drop calls if I use my left hand. Design defect.

 

[mstrmac]

proper way to hold your phone, any iPhone for maximum signal.
left or right...edited for u concerned lefties

 

[ChazUK]

Not meaning to accuse anyone of crying wolf here, but all the videos and pictures demonstrating this effect look to have the iPhone 4 held in a very specific and deliberate way.

What other way do you expect me to hold my phone in my left hand seeing as I'm a southpaw?

 

[danimal99]

What other way do you expect me to hold my phone in my left hand seeing as I'm a southpaw?

What do you tap with, your nose? You're left-handed, you should hold the phone in your right.

 

[blomma]

Really Steve? Ive had cellular phones since 1994. Never have I been told I need to hold a phone 'just so'. This is bs and an embarasement and you know it.

Class action suit starts tomorrow.

Pathetic.

Hey, what if you, and this might sound crazy, just returned the phone instead of start yet another class action suit. Just an idea.

 

[ChazUK]

proper way to hold your phone, any iPhone for maximum signal

Wouldn't that increase the chanced of dropping it if you were knocked at all? I'd rather hold my expensive handset as firm as possible thanks.

 

[ChazUK]

What do you tap with, your nose? You're left-handed, you should hold the phone in your right.

I always reach out for things with my left hand. I am still capable of tapping on a screen with the right hand thanks.

 

[distortedloop]

Obviously they know the problem. The bumpers was not designed and manufactured and delivered overnight, obviously it was one of the solution that they already thought of and cleverly designed.

Then they should have just covered the damn things in the first place, or included bumpers in the box, or moved the antenna to the other side. To say that they knew of the problem and chose to move forward with the design was okay because they offered a pricey after=market/add=on product to fix the problem seems a little weak.

I could imagine the same logic saying that it's okay if Ford sells a car that has a leaky sunroof as long as they sell you an add-on plastic sheet to wrap around the sunroof to stop the leak. Sounds kind of silly that way, doesn't it?

;-)

 

[ChazUK]

Yes.

I'll be happy to make one as well - no signal loss whatsoever while gripping from all sides.

Awesome DMann. As you can imagine, if you search for YouTube the main set of results are all for the signal loss ones.

Time to uprank that one as liked. Thankyou.

 

[bcotten]

yes.. avoid holding it like this.

and so on... see them all here: http://iphonehold.tumblr.com/

 

[iEdd]

Right, just like BP scrapped their drilling rig when they learned that there were some safety issues. Are you really that naive? Apple is in this business for money and money only. If they thought that they could get away with this flaw nothing could stop them.

Putting aside for a moment that your BP analogy isn't valid, your argument doesn't make sense. If they did all this new design with exo-skeleton antennae, and found using REAL tests (ie, not visual observation of interpolated bars), all they would need to do would be to keep the antenna inside the unit and leave the case as a separate thing.

Yes of course Apple do things to make money, but the thought that they deliberately cripple a device is ridiculous. It would hurt them more than exploit customers to make money.

After all they overcharge customers on each and every item they sell.

Ermm. Perceived value. If it is 'overcharging' to you, that means it's not worth the cost, so go elsewhere. The iPhone is very well priced in the market.