And how is that a problem? Apple Pay hides my credit card information. And I can use a random email and other fake information.
Why shouldn’t I have the ability to choose that if I want to share that?
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Paddle Plans to Launch Alternative In-App Purchase System on iOS That Circumvents Apple's Fees
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Why shouldn’t I have the ability to choose that if I want to share that?
I don't think you can use fake billing information because the bank would reject the transaction, same as with any other online credit card transaction.
Kudos to Paddle, but their anti-Apple stance is a turn-off for me. And their comparison chart of Paddle vs. Apple is filled with misinformation. For example, it says that consumers can't change their payment method with Apple payments. That's entirely false.
This may be good for developers from a cost position, but will consumers have a choice _not_ to use Paddle for payment handling?
This may be good for developers from a cost position, but will consumers have a choice _not_ to use Paddle for payment handling?
I can see this going over well with Apple customers...not.😑 Most will stick with Apple's in-app purchasing to avoid being data mined.
Their arguments are clearly not in favor of consumers. For example, it mentions being able to "manage subscriptions" as an advantage. But for the consumer it will only become more painful. No more easy subscribing/unsubscribing of all subscriptions in a unified interface in the settings; now you have to deal with every developer individually. And the shadier ones will use practices like making it easy to subscribe and hard to cancel.
I think Apple will require that apps that offer any payment option must also offer Apple in-app payments. That was sanctioned by the judge.
IMO the best possible outcome of this would be if Apple lowered it's fees (particularly the 30% tier), so in that sense it may turn out to be a good thing.
Netflix is a reader app and has different criteria.
The Epic lawsuit has set in precedent that Apple can collect it’s commissions on all purchases that enable extra functionality within an app. Enabling extra functionality must use the IAP API, so that is an easy way to track commission. The IAP API doesn’t necessarily have to handle the purchase (although it can), just the enabling of extra content such as currency, jewels, clothing, weapons etc. This is all in the current developer agreement and the judge ruled it lawful
So, if the app is on the App Store, then regardless of where/ when the sale is made, the developer will owe apple commission on any sale that enables extra functionality within the App.
The only difference is that Apple will be sending out an invoice for commissions to the developers at the end of the month instead of sending them the balance of the sales.
In the case of using an external payment processor, it could end up costing devs more as they will have to pay their fees + Apple’s commission. The judge stated that the IAP system provided more than just “payment processing” and Apple was still allowed to collect it’s commissions for use of it’s IP.
Although the judge stated Apple hadn’t justified it’s set commission points, that was only because Apple’s accounting looks at the entire business without individual breakdown of costs. You can bet Apple will be breaking down the costs of the entire App Store to justify it’s commissions going forward.
Eh yes you can.
apple hides the card information and handles the transaction and hides this info from the seller.
I can provide a fake name and fake email or address if they ask
this is the only reason why people use Apple Pay: you don’t need to put in credit card info and is anonymous. Compared to manually typing in the info
And honestly, considering many smalll developers and medium size developers that are solely iOS/iPad OS only apps/teams (such as Things!) I think many will stick with Apple considering the huge success and future potentials (just like the past) they've enjoyed.
Many games such as what EPIC and EA Games makes that are multi-platform may have a better play at outside app purchase and reputable customer service for such purchases/deliveries/support and refunds. Not to mention not heavily mining out customer data.
Warning to IOS users:
Do NOT use your banking cards or primary Visa-Debit cards or credit cards. Use a pre-paid credit card and load ONLY the limit for the purchase or recurring subscription fee for what you require/purchase outside of Apple's in-app-purchase system. Don't give a cookie monster unlimited cookies with milk.
That isn't true at all. The only card information Apple Pay "hides" in an online transaction is the card number, which is replaced by a virtual (tokenized) number. And of course it requires biometric authentication. Apart from that an online Apple Pay transaction works exactly like a regular credit card transaction. The virtual card number together with a security code and your billing information is transmitted to the vendor, which then uses existing payment processors to authorize the payment with the card-issuing bank and handle the actual transaction.
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yep, good luck apple. Extremely easy to curcu
apple need to prove that. Developers have no reason to disclose that and easy to circumvent. Buy in app money
Well apple need to prove that invoice. And good luck. Administrative nightmare and ballooning costs.
they can barely keep away scammer apps and copies. You expect them to be able to check every transaction for legitimate and false trans
there is a difference in allowing it and it being practical. Developer and customer goodwill will be damaged and costs will balloon for apple.
Apple already know it’s cost. They know exactly what costs are related to hardware and software. Then the details in services might be non specific. But that’s just apple being lazy.
look forward to apple showing us the cost of App Store is. According to other sources they have about a 400% margin and it’s expected apple have the same margins
How will Apple charge developers that adds third party payment system?
In response to the Epic Games vs. Apple ruling last month, payments platform Paddle today announced that it plans to launch an alternative in-app payment system for iOS that replaces Apple's in-app purchase mechanism.
In an emailed press release, Paddle described its payment system as a "true like-for-like, drop-in replacement" for Apple's in-app purchase mechanism, allowing developers to collect payments from customers without having to pay Apple a 15-30% commission on sales. Paddle said it will have a "highly competitive fee structure" with a 10% fee for transactions under $10 and a 5% plus $0.50 fee on transactions over $10.
In addition to lower fees, Paddle said benefits of its payment system will include access to customer data such as email addresses for communicating product news and offers, flexible pricing and subscription options, direct customer service, and more.
On its website, Paddle shared a video demonstration of an app with an "Upgrade Now" button that leads to Paddle's payment system on the web. Users are then presented with the option to pay via Apple Pay, PayPal, or a credit card directly.
Paddle said developers can register their interest in its in-app payment system starting today, and it said the service will go live December 7, 2021, a date that it says is in line with the terms of the Epic Games vs. Apple ruling.
The exact wording of U.S. District Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers' ruling said that Apple can no longer prohibit developers from "including in their apps and their metadata buttons, external links, or other calls to action that direct customers to purchasing mechanisms, in addition to In-App Purchasing." The judge required Apple to adhere to the permanent injunction within 90 days of her ruling, which was issued September 10.
Paddle certainly has bold intentions here based on its interpretation of Rogers' ruling, but it seems unlikely that Apple will allow apps to offer alternative payment systems that circumvent Apple's in-app purchase mechanism and/or fees. We've reached out to Apple for comment, and we'll update this story if we hear back.
Apple has previously stated that alternative payment systems in apps could expose users to privacy and security risks, including fraud.
Founded in 2012, Paddle says more than 2,000 software businesses rely on its platform for sales in over 200 markets globally. Paddle advertises its customers as including Setapp/MacPaw, Scrivener, AdGuard, Readdle, and others.
Article Link: Paddle Plans to Launch Alternative In-App Purchase System on iOS That Circumvents Apple's Fees
Apple could have large developers sign revised contracts that stipulate they owe Apple 30% of in-app purchases that take place outside of Apple payment, then verify this via regular audits. They would largely be self-selecting depending on whether they are enrolled in Apple’s small developer programme or not (ie: whether you earn over 1 million a year or less).
My guess is that Apple may not bother to stipulate the same terms to small developers, both because the extra effort would be worth the revenue and to avoid over-burdening them.
It’s far from ideal and results in more work for everyone, but by specifically not going after smaller developers, it would solve the issue of optics. There is a lot less sympathy for a company like Spotify or Epic.
There are ways to get around this. As long as you can link out, you can implement the entire transaction and accounting outside of the app, rendering the app entirely passive. The end result would be equivalent to me buying tokens in Android TikTok and spending them in iOS TikTok.
Indeed, but yourself and the prior poster entirely missed the part that Apple’s IAP API must be used to unlock extra functionality in the app regardless of whether Apple process the payments or not. That is in the developer agreement right now and the judge agreed it can continue.
Therefore, Apple will know exactly how many people have unlocked extra functionality in every app as they will be using the IAP API to do so.
Using any other method to unlock content is prohibited and will result in a ban.
I really suggest people read the developer agreements before they comment on how “easy it would be to circumvent”.
Define “unlock extra functionality in the app”.
What if the app doesn’t have “extra” functionalities, and features are presented to “relevant user groups,” which are managed externally?
Wouldn't be surprised if Apple will force developers to have the same price for Apple IAPs and external IAPs
Guess what. You can fake all that information. The only real info is what’s on my card, everything else is not real.
Only the bank can verify the transaction is accurate. The store have no ability to check this. Only real thing is my name, but that could also be fixed if I used Revolution virtual cards etc
That would be anti competitive and price control so it won’t fly. Just another lawsuit agains apple by every major nation.
man’s no way to stop price transparency
Christian - glad you popped on here to answer questions. I think it might be prudent to list out what Paddle means by customer data.
For example, if by customer data you mean Name, Email Address, Phone, etc that’s relatively easy (provided you offer an opt out which it sounds like you do). Let’s call that Tier 1 sensitivity.
For Tier 2 I’d include IP addresses, any geolocation information, device ID’s, etc. For example some developer might want to sell a “1 device“ license via Paddle so folks (like me) who have a couple of phones, a couple of iPads and a couple of Macs need to buy that license 6 times as opposed to a single time under the current Apple model.
For Tier 3 let’s address usage information (like the API calls to Paddle to “verify” licenses a previous poster identified) which gets a little more messy. It’s valuable data, for sure… but if you are serving as a warehouse for when people launch apps, how long they spend in them, what they click on and all that… that’s a lot more sensitive information that may not be able to be opted out of.
Lastly, if by customer data you mean the content they are storing in the apps let’s call that Tier 4. I really hope this isn’t part of it, because the risks are fairly obvious depending on the nature of the app and pushes a lot of liability onto Paddle. Based on your Mac store model I doubt this is it anyway.
Apologize for the length - but based on the above, can you clarify what Paddle considers customer information?
Would recommend dropping that answer into your press releases or on your website somewhere. If it’s just Tier 1 I expect that would help you get ahead of any privacy concerns folks might raise. If it’s not, at least it’s always better to be clear about where the line is. Despite my username, I’m actually a fan of clarity
Take care.
Good alternative, but I do not think customers will benefit from this. It is easier to pay directly through Apple. Also many customers will feel that this is safer.
Glad to hear it. Honestly I'd prefer to pay a little more than be harassed by marketing spam.
What happens to our data if your company is bought out or merged with another company?
Mmmmm, not really. Financial opportunity = IAP’s like the endless font of Gacha games. A lot of what drives the biggest money makers on the App Store a detriment to users.
Uhm, yeah, that's the whole point. And they do this whether you use Apple Pay or not. It depends on the bank and the transaction mode what information they verify. In many cases they use the zip code and/or numeric parts of your street address in addition to the name. You can not fake information any more or less than with a regular card transaction using the underlying card.
Just like when you make a regular card transaction.
Easy, don’t unlock any extra functions
They won’t be able to with extremely costly manual checks.
Easy, the app have a server. When you click a purchase button you are taken to their site where you buy currency, or even better just deposits real money in your account wallet. With this you then purchase whatever you want in the in game store. Now how will apple differentiate this purchases to a book purchase or
Then what is the problem for me to chose apple pay(much cheaper) or Apple IAP( extremely expensive) for practically no privacy benefits.
I don’t know what you do in USA, but in Sweden the Bank already know who you are as we have a citizens register as many other modern European nations