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Palm Pre Emulating an iPod to Accomplish iTunes Sync?

Surely the whole point is that Apple put in a lot of effort throughout the years in making + debugging iTunes to make it what it is today. What gives Palm the right to use the result of Apple's hard work? Isn't that an infringement of Intellectual Property in itself? I mean, iTunes was advertised to work with Apple's products, it has no obligation to open up all its goodies/ codes/ API to third-parties.

Why should anyone be forced to share their success? Go code your own software Palm.
 
some12b said:
Surely the whole point is that Apple put in a lot of effort throughout the years in making + debugging iTunes to make it what it is today. What gives Palm the right to use the result of Apple's hard work? Isn't that an infringement of Intellectual Property in itself? I mean, iTunes was advertised to work with Apple's products, it has no obligation to open up all its goodies/ codes/ API to third-parties.

Why should anyone be forced to share their success? Go code your own software Palm.
Click to expand...

If iTunes was merely a media manager then I'd be inclined to agree. However, it is a complete storefront and users purchase media from Apple. They should be free to use this media on any device they like.
 
Haha I have not commented on any of the Pre stuff since I know it will sink or it will maybe survive but not kill the iPhone. The iPhone had a base of customers no matter what the thing did if it sucked from the get go they where buying it, but it was probably one of the the best phones and that was almost three years ago. Now only within its time its about to go through its second revision. Only one phone and a cell phone company(at&t) is doing anything in there power to keep the iphone exclusive to them for longer and longer, because of the people it draws to them. Everyone went to the iphone because how clean it looks and it has no physical keyboard and honestly I do not know what that guy is talking about in the video about just in case you need to punch out an email you have this extra keyboard, honestly it takes two weeks to get used to the iphone on screen keyboard and sometime I think I type quicker on there then on the computer.

I am not going to say to much on speed because I have been waiting for apple to do something hopefully 3.0 and the new iphone they finally answer it.

Now for the point.

For Pre to try to implement iTunes syncing which is exclusive to Apple products, is just desperate. They know they do not have anything that great coming to help you sync it and such. For the people that say well wouldn't be great for apple if they can because the iTunes store. Thats a no because the reason why it is exclusive to Apple products is because the store was built around the products. If you wanted to use the store, unless you where burning disks which, you needed that ipod and at first a Mac all together. So, no the Pre syncing with iTunes is not a plus for Apple, because who got the money and contract for the device?...Verizon and Palm, not Apple and At&t.

So what it breaks down to yeah if you want a mediocre phone which stole a lot of its ideas from Apple and now is even using its desktop software to sync its product to get more sales at first even though it will be stopped and then you will be screwed. That knows how screwed they are with a new iPhone and/or iPhone 3.0 coming out that they needed to make the release day the day before the announcement of the new phone. Then get a Pre.

Now if you want a phone that will seamlessly sync with your music that you can download from the worlds biggest online online music store, without worrying will my syncing capabilities not work tomorrow. Have the App store, which has an App for almost anything you need. Since you are probably so set on using iTunes that you have a Mac, that maybe you should get a MobileMe also so that everything is kept together, don't worry if you don't you can always use your gmail or even yahoo and do about the same thing. Does Pre have that, not even close. So get an iPhone be smart.

If in the next couple years the Pre is still on the market and it does evolve into something better then maybe it can be something to consider, but at this point its just another phone.
 
-Garry- said:
Apple need to consider their next move carefully. Sure, they could just stop Palm's syncing with iTunes in order to keep it 'iPod exclusive' however doing so may be a little short-sighted.

Such a move would force Palm to release and include their own syncing software, media library, etc... perhaps complete with it's own music store?

If Apple let this slide they potentially gain access to a lot of Palm customers and can leverage that to sell them music/movies/tv shows from the iTunes store.

Apple better do some thinking alright...
Click to expand...

My guess is that they have. Unfortunately for them and consumers, the Apple suits would cut off their noses to spite their faces. I think they don't care about the additional revenue Pre owners would bring via the iTunes Store. They are quite content with hardware margins and other service revenue. They don't NEED Pre-user cash. They'll disable the Pre's ability to sync in a future update, and if it's circumvented again, THEN we'll see some typical, legal wrist-wringing.

:apple:
 
neiltc13 said:
If iTunes was merely a media manager then I'd be inclined to agree. However, it is a complete storefront and users purchase media from Apple. They should be free to use this media on any device they like.
Click to expand...

Yes, but the point is that Pre is using the iTunes' sync function - Apple is not controlling whether a track can be transferred to a device or not (post-DRM era), they are merely controlling who has the right to sync using their API.

P.S. even if one does buy music from iTunes, Nothing stops you from syncing those songs through other sync managers. So Apple in this case is just acting as any other music vendor.
 
some12b said:
Surely the whole point is that Apple put in a lot of effort throughout the years in making + debugging iTunes to make it what it is today. What gives Palm the right to use the result of Apple's hard work? Isn't that an infringement of Intellectual Property in itself? I mean, iTunes was advertised to work with Apple's products, it has no obligation to open up all its goodies/ codes/ API to third-parties.

Why should anyone be forced to share their success? Go code your own software Palm.
Click to expand...

So should Microsoft stop iTunes running on their platform as it clearly affects their market for the Zune?

Should they stamp on Apple for their use of SAMBA to integrate into Windows networks?

Should they prevent Apple using the FAT file format on their iPod Nanos, classics, etc so they can't integrate with Windows?

Or, should Apple prevent the use of third party mice, keyboards and monitors on their computers? Should they only allow specific printers or specific cameras and video cams to integrate into iPhoto and iMovie?

The thing is, Apple are perfectly happy to support open source / open standards when it suits them so they should be just as open in the other direction...
 
thedragonden said:
Or maybe Apple just needs to update a text-string in iTunes.
"Synching iPod" is rather generic, after all.

Does iTunes say "synching iPhone" if an iPhone is attached? (I don't know, so i"m asking.)

Other devices have been able to connect to iTunes in the past. Maybe iTunes just doesn't know what a "Pre" is yet.
Click to expand...


iTunes just needs to detect it's a pre and say "Syncing another wannabe device."
 
Phil A. said:
The thing is, Apple are perfectly happy to support open source / open standards when it suits them so they should be just as open in the other direction...
Click to expand...

That is called business my friend. Microsoft advertised Windows with a big fat welcome to other developers, but to use their services like ActiveSync one still has to pay for its licence.

Sure MS can close down on all other programmes apart from their own, but that will hurt their sales. Apple has nothing to gain from this, bar a few pc more song sales, but then this would be outweighed by the need to support additional users with untested software.
 
Phil A. said:
And one final point: OS X uses SAMBA (which is a reverse engineered / reengineered version of SMB) to masquerade as Windows machines so they can "play nice" and integrate into a Windows network. How is that any different?
Click to expand...

Because it is Apple. And they are screwing over MS which is okay here.


If the Pre is emulating a Classic, I am kinda interested to see how Apple would fix that. Maybe drop support for those models? Would Apple do that?
 
Phil A. said:
So should Microsoft stop iTunes running on their platform as it clearly affects their market for the Zune?

Should they stamp on Apple for their use of SAMBA to integrate into Windows networks?

Should they prevent Apple using the FAT file format on their iPod Nanos, classics, etc so they can't integrate with Windows?

Or, should Apple prevent the use of third party mice, keyboards and monitors on their computers? Should they only allow specific printers or specific cameras and video cams to integrate into iPhoto and iMovie?

The thing is, Apple are perfectly happy to support open source / open standards when it suits them so they should be just as open in the other direction...
Click to expand...

Could Apple survive without iTunes on Windows? I would think they would take MS to court over something like that (which everyone here would support, kinda ironic no?).
 
neiltc13 said:
They should be free to use this media on any device they like.
Click to expand...

Protip: THEY CAN.

some12b said:
Apple is not controlling whether a track can be transferred to a device or not (post-DRM era)
Click to expand...

They never did that afaik, the file just wouldn't play if you put it on another MP3 Player, and no one cared that iTunes wouldn't sync to them (Maybe they did? I've always considered iTunes to be something you had to put up with to use an iPod afterall :p).

some12b said:
they are merely controlling who has the right to sync using their API.
Click to expand...

Apple hasn't even done anything yet...

Edit:

diamond.g said:
If the Pre is emulating a Classic, I am kinda interested to see how Apple would fix that. Maybe drop support for those models? Would Apple do that?
Click to expand...

Firmware update for Classic + iTunes update. Not very hard imho.
 
neiltc13 said:
If iTunes was merely a media manager then I'd be inclined to agree. However, it is a complete storefront and users purchase media from Apple. They should be free to use this media on any device they like.
Click to expand...


iTunes is not a complete storefront at all. Other music distribution services are. There's no representation that media purchased can be used on any device. Music was not bought with the expectation that it could be transferred to a Pre, or any other specific device, in the future.
 
some12b said:
That is called business my friend. Microsoft advertised Windows with a big fat welcome to other developers, but to use their services like ActiveSync one still has to pay for its licence.

Sure MS can close down on all other programmes apart from their own, but that will hurt their sales. Apple has nothing to gain from this, bar a few pc more song sales, but then this would be outweighed by the need to support additional users with untested software.
Click to expand...

I fully understand why Apple may want to prevent this, but what sort of riles me a bit is the outrage of several posters on here at what is little more than a bit of reverse engineered interoperability.

As I've said in earlier posts, Apple have this sort of thing in spades within OS X, along with huge, huge chunks of open source software that they haven't developed themselves. It would be, IMO, extremely hypocritical of Apple to try and claim some moral high ground on this one.
 
whole discussion started with a speculation by a guy.

Rubinstein is the godfather of iPod, you guys think you are smarter than him?

get real.
 
Apple will sue palm

Ok we all know that Apple cant do anything until the pre is released ..

and the pre will be released 2 days after Apple WWDC where the iPhone 3.0 will be the highlight ... so ... will Apple be silent about this .. Ofcourse not ..

There will be loads of press and news reporters at WWDC and Pre will be released 2 days after WWDC so i know what every tech reporter in the world will ask Phil Schiller/Scott / Steve .... WHEN THE HELL WILL YOU SUE PALM ... ? .. or something like that ..
 
puliaficoc20 said:
For Pre to try to implement iTunes syncing which is exclusive to Apple products, is just desperate. They know they do not have anything that great coming to help you sync it and such.
Click to expand...

Or they are trying to make YOUR life easier and letting you continue to use your awesome iTunes library to continue syncing YOUR devices. Just because Apple WANTS you to use their devices exclusively, doesn't mean you have to. It isn't desperate, but some of these asinine responses are. I expect the Pre to be a pretty fascinating device.

I'd get an iPhone if Apple wasn't such a douche about control. I have an Android dev phone, but I wish to promote the evil Google corporation over the evil Apple corporation. If it synced with iTunes, I wouldn't start screaming, "unfair, you desperate jerks!" Instead, I would be like, "thank you google, for making my life EASIER".

Release from Jobs teat, you have been little Apple fans for long enough to realize the cool aid is a bit tainted.
 
Phil A. said:
So should Microsoft stop iTunes running on their platform as it clearly affects their market for the Zune?

Should they stamp on Apple for their use of SAMBA to integrate into Windows networks?

Should they prevent Apple using the FAT file format on their iPod Nanos, classics, etc so they can't integrate with Windows?

Or, should Apple prevent the use of third party mice, keyboards and monitors on their computers? Should they only allow specific printers or specific cameras and video cams to integrate into iPhoto and iMovie?

The thing is, Apple are perfectly happy to support open source / open standards when it suits them so they should be just as open in the other direction...
Click to expand...

I totaly get your point but I dont think its as black and white as you write ..

The basics is that it all starts with that the Palm Pre are developed with people that used to work at Apple and now they work at Palm.

Apple dont hold patent for multi touch but they hold patent for the implantation and that is what Palm have copied ..

Palm is no real threat to Apple .. its realy not but the threat is that if Apple dont do an example out of Palm outher vendors will follow ...

if we all would go with you look on things Apple would go out of buisness ..

remember Phystar ???? Apple have sued lots of vendors trying to use OS X on there machines ... how is this different ... ????

- People who like software should make there own hardware ... ... Apples revenue is always in the hardware ... not iTunes, not Final Cut, not iLife, not OS X ... but its that software who makes the Mac what it is .. and the same goes for iPhone ...
 
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I don't see Apple letting this happen for very long. They probably could call it copyright infringement since it appears as an "iPod" in iTunes.
 
From what I can tell, iPods and iPhones sell themselves based on the fact that they are good devices.

This is why going to DRM-free music didn't hurt Apple. If iTunes leads people to iPod sales, DRM is good for Apple. If iPods lead people to iTunes then DRM-free is not a problem for Apple.

Given that Apple was the one pushing for DRM-free music, I think it's safe to say that iPods/iPhones drive iTunes usage, not the reverse.

Given that, I don't see how this hurts Apple even a little bit.
 
miketcool said:
I just look at the join date for macrumors...

Anything post-iPhone release-and-worship is subject to scrutiny in my book. ;)
Click to expand...


Or just go back and se someone's (cough, cough) posting history. Some have been here for years with nothing nice to say about aapl. Nice job if you can get it.
 
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