'Palm Pre' Smartphone Announced: WebOS, Wireless Charging, App Store

[ZiggyPastorius]

Or like other tend to do with Sprint, so share your comments with others or make it general instead of just quoting me.

I am sure a T-Mobile user can give testimony to both AT&T and Sprint sucking to.

Understand what I am saying.

I understand what you're saying. I'm a Sprint customer. However, I read the stuff you say, and I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm singling you out, but if there was a discussion on the iPhone, your response is generally like "The iPhone's biggest weakness is AT&T. AT&T's service sucks terrible." Which is horribly unuseful for prospective customers who may have great AT&T coverage in their area. A slight bit of care in your posts to reword a bit "In my experience, AT&T is some of the worst service and coverage out there," rather than a defacto "AT&T sucks" which could lead someone down the wrong path in deciding what is best for them.

 

[rhett7660]

Going from specs alone, how is the iphone better?

Lets see

Multitasking vs unitasking
Realtime GPS vs whatever the fake **** iphone has
Integrated messaging vs not
cut and paste vs Jobs arrogance (ie, no cut and paste)
better camera than iphone
stereo bluetooth vs mono bluetooth for iphone..

iphone advantages
apps (duh)... this will diminish in time
customer base. apple fans are pretty fanatic, they'd buy the iphone if it sucked (and it doesn't).. but they will stay with apple, through thick and thin.

That's about it.. those advantages does not make the iphone better.
If the gui is as promised, apple gui is not better, their interface is not better, sprint network is faster than AT&T so their browsing speed is worse.. i mean, exactly why is the iphone better?.
Other than number of apps (duh).. what advantage would the iphone have over the pre

I am sorry where do you live that the Sprint network is faster the AT&T? In southern california this is not the case. Los Angeles, huge market not the case. I had Sprint for a year and it was freaking horrible, dumped them for Verizon.

 

[Digital Skunk]

I understand what you're saying. I'm a Sprint customer. However, I read the stuff you say, and I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm singling you out, but if there was a discussion on the iPhone, your response is generally like "The iPhone's biggest weakness is AT&T. AT&T's service sucks terrible." Which is horribly unuseful for prospective customers who may have great AT&T coverage in their area. A slight bit of care in your posts to reword a bit "In my experience, AT&T is some of the worst service and coverage out there," rather than a defacto "AT&T sucks" which could lead someone down the wrong path in deciding what is best for them.

I can agree with that, and thanks for not taking anything hard, it's much appreciated. It's going to have to come from both sides of the fence. During the early days of the iPhone, there was great discussion and unbiased reviews of both AT&T and the iPhone.

Now, it seems that AT&T has become the best cell network simply on the merits of the iPhone, and the latter on the merits of it's Apple logo.

There was a time when people put the opinion moniker in their statements about AT&T and the iPhone or other devices, now it seems that everyone wants to justify their purchasing choices by destroying other's perception of the other company.

I have fallen into that myself, and I do apologize. I do hope that we all try our best to prevent this, and inform others that may be doing it just the same.

Thanks Ziggy.

p.s. The Sprint network is much faster in the east coast. In Maryland, I get EVDO everywhere, and even in Opera pages load quite fast and Google street view is just as fluid on my handheld as on my Mac connected through ethernet.

 

[ZiggyPastorius]

snip

Thanks, it's no problem. It does come from the fanboys a lot and it's unfortunate. I try not to speak in a biased manner at all when it comes to these things, but it can be hard at times to avoid it (because you don't really realise it). Either way, I understand. By the way, is there any word when this will be released? I want to check it out before my contract runs out in March.

 

[bremb0]

I am sorry where do you live that the Sprint network is faster the AT&T? In southern california this is not the case. Los Angeles, huge market not the case. I had Sprint for a year and it was freaking horrible, dumped them for Verizon.

Well, here in Long Beach my iPhone 3g speeds is pretty slow if I can even get 3g.

Gizmodo speed test.
http://gizmodo.com/5111989/the-definitive-coast+to+coast-3g-data-test

 

[Digital Skunk]

....

I hear July, much like the iPhone's release where it was done before the FCC filings. I am still wondering if the device syncs with Macs in some way, and if it does will it import iCal labeling and not mix up address book contacts like the older Palm OS did notoriously.

I know it will need an app to bridge it, I just need to know if it can ingest my already well established information on my Mac then I will be 90% satisfied even before launch.

On a side note, I may try to dig up and keep links to the earlier threads some posters and I had about switching carriers and iPhone vs. other handset reviews. They were some of the best and (when ignoring other comments) unbiased conversations I've ever had.

 

[ZiggyPastorius]

snip

Well, damn. Not a big deal, I suppose. My contract with Sprint runs out in March and I'm (yes, yes, I know...) switching to AT&T to get my iPhone. I was hoping I'd be able to check it out before I switched, though.

 

[Digital Skunk]

Well, damn. Not a big deal, I suppose. My contract with Sprint runs out in March and I'm (yes, yes, I know...) switching to AT&T to get my iPhone. I was hoping I'd be able to check it out before I switched, though.

You still can if you really wanted to see the differences, but if you have no issue with AT&T and the bill/plans they offer then go for it.

I try to always mention that I would have gotten an iPhone during the release date if it weren't for the sacrifices I'd have to make. The bill and insurance being two of the higher tiered ones.

 

[ZiggyPastorius]

You still can if you really wanted to see the differences, but if you have no issue with AT&T and the bill/plans they offer then go for it.

I try to always mention that I would have gotten an iPhone during the release date if it weren't for the sacrifices I'd have to make. The bill and insurance being two of the higher tiered ones.

Yep, you've mentioned that before. I'm going to go for it anyways. I could go for the Instinct, since I'm on Sprint, but the bill is even higher, and I don't like the phone at all (at all! >.<). But, either way, I'm going to try. If something does happen to the phone, I'll probably get a BB Bold (That's on AT&T, right?)

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Yep, you've mentioned that before. I'm going to go for it anyways. I could go for the Instinct, since I'm on Sprint, but the bill is even higher, and I don't like the phone at all (at all! >.<). But, either way, I'm going to try. If something does happen to the phone, I'll probably get a BB Bold (That's on AT&T, right?)

You'd have to buy it unsubsidized! That thing is like $500!

 

[ZiggyPastorius]

You'd have to buy it unsubsidized! That thing is like $500!

This is true. Hopefully I won't have to worry about it. And since the unsubsidised iPhone is about the same, I'd probably just do that instead...

But I don't plan on breaking it, so it's okay

 

[jpan08]

look, i know everyone is religious about the iphone, but the truth is that it needs some good competition or else we wont see added features just as we saw the crappy 2 megapixel camera carried over to the 3g. Without competition, apple can do whatever they want.
just a thought

 

[Lara F]

well you're a bit incorrect on some of your facts -
1. the iphone does multi task - (it won't allow 3rd party applications to run in the background)

Only to a limited extent. The day I can listen to Pandora while surfing Safari, downloading my email, looking up a map, IMing on Beejive, checking out Facebook/Tweetie, taking a pic etc is the day there truly is multitasking.

Some apps like Pocket Tunes have incorportated browsers, and that's an improvement but 1) they don't seem to be able to do landscape and 2) still doesn't allow me to leave the app to do anything else.

I understand the iPhone probably simply can't handle it at this point, but I do expect the next version to have been sufficiently improved tech-wise to allow it. I'm not even asking for 5-10 apps open at once, just 3 would be sufficient.

 

[paj]

Ahem... If I want to merge the contents of two folders, I open the first one, select all, copy, open the second one paste, no sweat.

Ahem… If I have sub-folders, your method won't help.

Obviously you know a lot more about user interface design than everyone at Apple, but maybe they asked themselves: How much do users lose if we don't allow this merging (as I said, about two seconds worth of work). How much do users lose if we allow this merging (it can be absolutely catastrophic if the user does it when they shouldn't have).

Obviously you didn't think this through before posting. "Catastrophic" would be overwriting the original files. Merging when it wasn't intended, would simply be an inconvenience.

 

[rockosmodurnlif]

What is server-side about HTML, CSS, and Javascript? All of those are all rendered locally on ANY computer.

Read below

The OS is written like a web browser, but does not have the same protocols. First off, the apps can get much deeper into phone specific API's and special code can be written and stored on the phone (things that websites must do server side) These applications, although written like web apps, will not just be local web apps. They will be the real thing. This is completely different from how Apple did web apps, which were just sites written for the iPhone with some fancy ajax here and there.

 

[ZiggyPastorius]

Only to a limited extent. The day I can listen to Pandora while surfing Safari, downloading my email, looking up a map, IMing on Beejive, checking out Facebook/Tweetie, taking a pic etc is the day there truly is multitasking.

Some apps like Pocket Tunes have incorportated browsers, and that's an improvement but 1) they don't seem to be able to do landscape and 2) still doesn't allow me to leave the app to do anything else.

I understand the iPhone probably simply can't handle it at this point, but I do expect the next version to have been sufficiently improved tech-wise to allow it. I'm not even asking for 5-10 apps open at once, just 3 would be sufficient.

I hope the next revision has this, though the iPhone can handle it. I'm jailbroken right now, running several programs at once, and there's no issue at all.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Only one thing needs to be said about the "Pre":

IT'S VAPORWARE! V-A-P-0-R-W-A-R-E! GET IT? IT DOESN'T EXIST! IT'S A HOPE, A PROMISE, A DREAM, A PHANTOM, A WISP, AN ILLUSION, A POTEMKIN VILLAGE, A GHOST. NOTHING MORE!

Wait until the unit falls into the hands of actual, real-world customers (and Sprint's less-than-awesome network) before praising or damning it.* THEN we'll find out if Palm can right itself in some very deep waters.

* And when will this be?

While I agree the proof is in the pudding, the Pre isn't vaporware. People at CES got to play w/a working Pre. The Pre exists, it's just not shipping yet. If CES 2010 rolls around and the Pre still hasn't shipped THEN you can call it vaporware. Get it?


Lethal

 

[NT1440]

While I agree the proof is in the pudding, the Pre isn't vaporware. People at CES got to play w/a working Pre. The Pre exists, it's just not shipping yet. If CES 2010 rolls around and the Pre still hasn't shipped THEN you can call it vaporware. Get it?


Lethal

Keep in mind that many companies make units just for press releases. Yes the proof is in the pudding. We'll see just how good the production model turns out to be.

I myself am not interested, I dont really want much in a phone, the thing I like about the iphone is that its a phone (all I care about in a cell phone) but more importantly to me, its an ipod touch as well.

Maybe things change when you actually have a cell phone? I don't own one.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Keep in mind that many companies make units just for press releases. Yes the proof is in the pudding. We'll see just how good the production model turns out to be.

Considering Apple's routine habit of announcing products well in advance of them shipping having someone screaming about the Pre being vaporware, an illusion, a ghost, blah, blah, blah is just a bit ridiculous.

I myself am not interested, I dont really want much in a phone, the thing I like about the iphone is that its a phone (all I care about in a cell phone) but more importantly to me, its an ipod touch as well.

Maybe things change when you actually have a cell phone? I don't own one.

Horses for courses. I have no interest in a Touch because the storage is too small. Maybe when it's storage capacity triples I'll replace my 80gig iPod. Of course by that time if the iPhone storage gets big enough I'll just get an iPhone and dump all my music and stuff onto it so I won't need to carry around a cell phone and an iPod.

If the Pre works well and can sync well w/my Mac using third party software I'll be a happy camper and probably re-up w/Sprint (currently I'm out of contract w/them).


Lethal

 

[jhande]

Just the other day I was looking at my old Palm Pilot, Palm Vx, Treo 650.

Let's just stipulate that what follows is a personal preference, hmmm ok

I'm really impressed with the Pre. While I have the 3G (paid for, unlocked), I must admit if the Pre lives up to the demos and specs, then the iPhones future in my pocket is threatened. Apart from the obvious tech specs, here are a couple of points I've been mulling over:

Does anyone remember how quickly PalmGear grew? It was actually the first real app store online. Yeah Palm fubared it well and good with their shenanigans, but I've bought a lot of apps there, and it basically worked really well. If done right, and more liberally than Apple does, it might just work better.

With DRM disappearing from iTunes, I have no problem wrt my music library (only about 10% is DRMed in any case). I can't remember the name of the god-awful music player the 650 had, but they won't repeat that disaster. So media looks good. Screen size doesn't bother me. I've read hundreds of books on the Vx and 650. If I could watch movies on the classic, I can watch it on the Pre.

As far as the whole webapps contra compiled apps business is concerned, unless you are a developer who actually understands how hooks into the systems libraries work, please, please do not comment on this aspect. If done right, this is actually a really big deal, and pretty cool.

Just one final point: Mr. Jobs, I'd really, really appreciate the ability to copy a snippet of text from, oh say, my address book and paste it into an email. Non-hacked landscape typing would be nifty too, but hey, no pressure.

Way to go, Palm

Just my .02

 

[bloodycape]

I am pretty sure multitasking on the iphone is more of a software limitation than hardware. I remember back in 2004-2005 I had a HP WM2003 SE device that had like an old Samsung 300mhz processor that wasn't that fast and yet I was able to listen to music, while I surfed the web via wifi, to cut and paste info into an email I was planning to send. So if an old device like that could/and still would do it then an iphone with newer and better hardware should easily do multitasking.

 

[NT1440]

I am pretty sure multitasking on the iphone is more of a software limitation than hardware. I remember back in 2004-2005 I had a HP WM2003 SE device that had like an old Samsung 300mhz processor that wasn't that fast and yet I was able to listen to music, while I surfed the web via wifi, to cut and paste info into an email I was planning to send. So if an old device like that could/and still would do it then an iphone with newer and better hardware should easily do multitasking.

Its more about the RAM than the CPU. I beleive the iphones CPU runs underclocked around 416ish mhz. I could be remembering wrong tho.

 

[Dmac77]

Its more about the RAM than the CPU. I beleive the iphones CPU runs underclocked around 416ish mhz. I could be remembering wrong tho.

The Blackberry Bold can copy and paste, and it has the same amount of RAM that the iPhone does (128 MB). Software is the only thing blocking copy/paste.

Don

 

[kdarling]

I am pretty sure multitasking on the iphone is more of a software limitation than hardware.

It's a managerial limitation, implemented in software. Apple decided that the easiest way to avoid any background processing slowdown, was to not allow background apps at all. Except theirs, of course, which just proves that they're necessary and desirable.

All other apps must be written to save their state at any time a call comes in or you go back to the home menu. It's a waste of development effort and battery / cpu usage.

Its more about the RAM than the CPU. I beleive the iphones CPU runs underclocked around 416ish mhz. I could be remembering wrong tho.

It's clocked at ~412MHz. The 620MHz rumor came about from looking at spec sheet top limits for a certain way of manufacturing the chipset. What the actual working limit is for the particular chip used in the iPhone, I'm not sure anyone knows. Higher speed = higher cost.

However, the new generation iPod touch runs at 532MHz, which is more in line with other Samsung chip-based phones.

 

[str1f3]

seth weintraub article

interesting article from seth weintraub from computerworld:



Palm Pre's processor beats Apple iPhone's
While there are hundreds of hardware and then software layers on top of the processor, not much else can make as big an input on the overall abilities of a device than the horspower it has under the hood. In this race, Palm Pre's engine beats the (current!) iPhone hands down.

That doesn't mean that by the time mid 2009 rolls around, the iPhone won't have a bigger engine, but we won't know until the second Apple is ready to tell us.

The current iPhone has an ARM 11-based Architecture from Samsung (S3C6400). While a popular chip with many advantages, it isn't state of the art. In fact it is pretty middle of the road. And for battery draw (and heat?) reasons, Apple doesn't even crank it all of the way up. IT currently doesn't even reach 500MHz.

As I stated last month, most new multimedia phones will be coming with ARM Cortex A8-based microprocessors which offer roughly double the speed at, again roughly, the same battery draw as the ARM 11 series processors.

Palm's Pre is the fist such phone to have a ARM Cortex processor. By most accounts it is the TI OMAP 34x0 series.



I have to believe that Apple, when they do their yearly iPhone update in June/July (not just flash storage upgrade) will be able to match this processor with either their own PA Semi based ARM Cortex processor or a Cortex processor from another vendor.

To get an idea of what these processors are capable of, check the website below.

From the TI OMAP 3440 Specs page:

The OMAP™ 3 architecture combines mobile entertainment with high performance productivity applications
Advanced Superscalar ARM® Cortex™-A8 RISC core enabling 3x gain in performance
Designed in 65-nm CMOS process technology adds processing performance
IVA™ 2+ (Image Video Audio) accelerator enables multi-standard (MPEG4, WMV9, RealVideo, H263, H264) encode/decode at D1 (720x480 pixels) 30 fps
Integrated image signal processor (ISP) for faster, higher-quality image capture and lower system cost
Flexible system support
Composite and S-video TV output
XGA (1024x768 pixels), 16M-color (24-bit definition) display support
Flatlink™ 3G-compliant serial display and parallel display support
High Speed USB2.0 On-The-Go support
Seamless connectivity to Hard Disk Drive (HDD) devices for mass storage
Leverages SmartReflex™ technologies for advanced power reduction
M-shield™ mobile security enhanced with ARM TrustZone™ support
Software-compatible with OMAP™ 2 processors
HLOS support for customizable interface
Support for OpenGL ES 1.1
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everybody should give apple a chance to answer back. yes webOS now has the best mobile OS design now but give apple a chance with the new hardware to see what they can do. nobody knows what os 3.0 will look like or what it will do.