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Wow I can't believe this thread is still going and there are STILL IDIOTS (yes I mean that) who think Apple is in the wrong for not letting someone leech off of their software for free.


Hahahaha. I guarantee these people who are siding with palm would be the first to complain if someone leeched off of their wifi, or spliced their cable line without their knowledge, or siphoned their gas...see where I'm going here?

EDIT: Seriously guys this argument is like Sony crying to someone because Microsoft won't let them run XBox Live on the PS3.
 
Thx to those that answered to my question.

Now to ask another which makes me wonder...

If this is a illegal hack and all signs in the sky prove it... why does Palm go so hard on Apple?

Nobody here will tell me Palm has idiots in their company.
 
Thx to those that answered to my question.

Now to ask another which makes me wonder...

If this is a illegal hack and all signs in the sky prove it... why does Palm go so hard on Apple?

Nobody here will tell me Palm has idiots in their company.

There are idiots in EVERY company, as there are in any human endeavor. The trick is to not allow them to make the big decisions. We'll see if that's what happened at Palm in the months ahead.
 
By the way I see things going...new executives are all air totally out of synch with reality and driven mad by money. Come on at least we can have decency, I only see these kinds of tactics from children.
 
Thx to those that answered to my question.

Now to ask another which makes me wonder...

If this is a illegal hack and all signs in the sky prove it... why does Palm go so hard on Apple?

Nobody here will tell me Palm has idiots in their company.

Maybe Palm thinks that if they have a good preemptive strike on Apple, the Pre and syncing will still survive in the end, whereas if Apple had taken legal action first, it would have been over for the Pre.
 
the Pre and syncing will still survive in the end,

It really isn't surviving now, since it has (and will) be broken regularly by iTunes updates, until that possible major iTunes update which will break syncing for good. And we really don't know what action (if any) Apple will take beyond breaking Pre syncing in this manner. This is only the beginning.
 
It really isn't surviving now, since it has (and will) be broken regularly by iTunes updates, until that possible major iTunes update which will break syncing for good. And we really don't know what action (if any) Apple will take beyond breaking Pre syncing in this manner. This is only the beginning.

Remember, I was speaking in the mindset of a Palm exec. Their goal is to ensure it survives, and they probably believe this is its only chance.
 
Facts:
1. Apple originally blocked the Palm's Pre device by their USB's VID which is the original mistake from Apple and the reason why Pre reported it to the USB Implementers board.
2. Because, Pre has to find out a quick fix to it to get into the iTunes, they identified their device with Apple's Vendor ID (happens with firmware update on Pre) - which is also not a good business as they faked the USB drivers. So before apple gets on them they reported to the USB forum as a pre-measure.

So looks like Apple started the mudslinging and Pre did a quick fix to help their customers by putting their reputation at stake*.

* - Pre's rep was at stake because there are millions of Apple fan boys out there falsifying the information.

Wow, someone has no clue what they're talking about. Apple didn't block anything or anyone by their VID. All they did was design iTunes to only respond to their iPods. Kinda like, oh, you know, every other piece of software that is designed to work with a single product/line? Seriously, Palm's got it all backwards in yet another way. And so do you.

jW
 
Palm's goals are to A) get free publicity for the pre, and B) Make Apple look like the big 'bad guy' who doesn't care about customers and is more interested in protecting its 'monopoly'.

Syncing from the Pre will likely be broken in the end, but at least Palm can say that they tried for their customers, but Apple beat them down. And should Apple stop caring and let it sync or license it, their brazenness got them a feature.

I don't see how doing this is a lose for Palm, aside from the litigation costs if it goes that far.
 
The way I see it, iTunes is like Apple's night club and it's employing its bouncers to make sure that only people (players) who are 'on the list' can get in.

Now it might suck if you're a PalmPre person to see all the Pod people getting on when you're not allowed, but it's up to Apple. It doesn't give you the right to sneak round the back and get in through the fire escape, or at least if you that you shouldn't feel you have to the right to go and complain about it when Apple put a bouncer at the fire escape too.

Anyway, clearly Palm are trouble-makers and deserve to be barred. They're both being a bit childish, but it's Apple's party, so they can cry if they want to.

Go find your own party, Palm!
 
Hahahaha. I guarantee these people who are siding with palm would be the first to complain if someone leeched off of their wifi, or spliced their cable line without their knowledge, or siphoned their gas...see where I'm going here?

That doesnt make any sense at all. What is Apple losing if a Pre syncs with iTunes? Apple isnt losing moeny, they arent losing potential sales (unless you count people who buy ipods because its the only thing that syncs directly with iTunes, but once again, thats tying and apple has a massive market share in the portable music market). So tell me, if i plug a pre into iTunes, what has apple lost?

Im amazed that some people will bow down and praise apple no matter what, even if the end result is worse for the customer. I swear, some fanboys here care more about apple than their own families...
 
That doesnt make any sense at all. What is Apple losing if a Pre syncs with iTunes? Apple isnt losing moeny, they arent losing potential sales (unless you count people who buy ipods because its the only thing that syncs directly with iTunes, but once again, thats tying and apple has a massive market share in the portable music market). So tell me, if i plug a pre into iTunes, what has apple lost?

Im amazed that some people will bow down and praise apple no matter what, even if the end result is worse for the customer. I swear, some fanboys here care more about apple than their own families...

Nonsense. Some of you Palm apologists are hypocrites. How would you like if someone broke into your house and started living there. When you kick them out, they break back in and then call the police on you. I'm sure none of you would like that but because it's Apple, it's alright for another company to hack into their own software and then report them when they block it.
 
Nonsense. Some of you Palm apologists are hypocrites. How would you like if someone broke into your house and started living there. When you kick them out, they break back in and then call the police on you. I'm sure none of you would like that but because it's Apple, it's alright for another company to hack into their own software and then report them when they block it.

absolutely hilarious that moronic mac ppl think this is some huge issue. what if apple all of a sudden decided your macbook will not be able to run 3rd party apps and only ones made by apple? exact same thing.
 
There are idiots in EVERY company, as there are in any human endeavor. The trick is to not allow them to make the big decisions. We'll see if that's what happened at Palm in the months ahead.

Idiots or not they still have legions of lawyers that use the books to interpret the law.
So I am wondering if collateral damage that let's say Palm is willing to accept by going out with their claims isn't something that will still benefit them in the long run and it might hurt Apple.

There's a lot of people here that jump into conclusions very easy "just because" they believe they know everything. I'm just wondering what might actually drive decisions like this as in the end I'm just a consumer and could care less about some companies and their internal issues as long as they provide me with a decent product for which I payed for.
 
Wow I can't believe this thread is still going and there are STILL IDIOTS (yes I mean that) who think Apple is in the wrong for not letting someone leech off of their software for free.


Hahahaha. I guarantee these people who are siding with palm would be the first to complain if someone leeched off of their wifi, or spliced their cable line without their knowledge, or siphoned their gas...see where I'm going here?

EDIT: Seriously guys this argument is like Sony crying to someone because Microsoft won't let them run XBox Live on the PS3.

I deal with Knuckleheads day in day out. I really did not expect to see so many here! I'm with you completely. I'm so fed up with whinning imbesiles
that populate our planet.

If Palm was knocking off MS's software or IP there would be no arguement what so ever. It would be expected. But when it comes to Apple then a different set of rules are applied. Talk about double standards and total hypocrisy.

Apple please get Palm over a barrel and totally annihilate them. Then the knuckleheads can whine for a few months and then it's over.
 
So you hack itunes to pretend you're and ipod and then report Apple? The audacity of these folks. :mad:

iTunes should have much higher and open standards to comply with usb standards. apple is at fault. they always make such great software but then have to ruin it with what you can use it with. all apple hardware sucks..! either that or it's very overpriced. palm just wants to be able to provide convenient use to this great software.
 
iTunes should have much higher and open standards to comply with usb standards. apple is at fault. they always make such great software but then have to ruin it with what you can use it with. all apple hardware sucks..! either that or it's very overpriced. palm just wants to be able to provide convenient use to this great software.

Microsoft should have more open standards too. I can't believe I can't use Xbox Live on my PS3. It's an outrage! They have a monopoly on the online video game market, and they're not letting me use it! Anti-trust!
 
iTunes should have much higher and open standards to comply with usb standards.

Why?

apple is at fault.

Are you a member of the USB consortium that is in charge of enforce of their rules or a judge?


they always make such great software but then have to ruin it with what you can use it with.
So? That is their right. You are making a pointless argument that ha no basis in fact.


all apple hardware sucks..! either that or it's very overpriced. palm just wants to be able to provide convenient use to this great software.

1) If palm wants to create convenient access than they should go through the same means that everybody else uses. Being palm doesn't make them any more special. Apple has already made its library info as well as its sync services readily available to anyone who wises to use it.

2) If you believe Apple hardware sucks or is overpriced, than do not buy it!. Nobody is holding a gun to your head.
 
imagine apple issuing an ipod firmware update for the vendor id used by the palm pre to trick itunes...

who would a pre user call if his pre starts malfunctioning ?

apple or palm ? my guess ? apple.. , since itunes is the one providing the update. now that is where the real problem lies.

if you trick itunes that you are an ipod and you are something else ( a pre ) then features such as updating a firmware may become a problem.
 
Does Microsoft allow my iphone to sync with their Zune Desktop or the Pre?

They would if Apple didn't block other media software synching with iPods and iPhones.

For example, JRiver Media center has many more features than iTunes and is the software of choice for many power users. Unfortunately, Apple break support with every update and have threatened JRiver with legal action if they allow synching with ipods or iphones.
 
They would if Apple didn't block other media software synching with iPods and iPhones.

For example, JRiver Media center has many more features than iTunes and is the software of choice for many power users. Unfortunately, Apple break support with every update and have threatened JRiver with legal action if they allow synching with ipods or iphones.

Yeah I guess that's why Microsoft allows Pres to sync with Zune Desktop or Apple also controls that ability?
 
What would people be saying if Microsoft did the exact same thing to get the Zune syncing with iTunes? Especially if Microsoft didn't bother to make an application for syncing and ONLY used iTunes?

I feel like no one on this forum would be okay with that.
 
Alright, here goes...

First of all, I'm going to start off by saying that I am not going to be discussing the legal issues behind the whole Palm-Apple war. I'm just going to discuss why Apple should allow other devices to sync with iTunes.

People argue that iTunes is a selling point of iPods and iPhones - by making it non-exclusive to their product lines, it would be cutting sales of their iPhone and iPod lines. I, and many others, don't agree. iTunes is not a selling point on a Windows machine - if a user inexperienced with using Mac OS in their lifetime came across iTunes on a Windows computer, the user would assume that Apple is incapable of writing good software. It's just that bad. It bogs down the computer, it's not as snappy as the Mac version (which is at most marginally more responsive) and is a negative aspect of buying an iPod as a Windows user. Considering that Windows is a huge part of the computer marketplace - well, you get the idea.

iTunes comes preloaded with every mac, and with some PC vendors, it's preinstalled on a PC as well. That means regardless of someone using an iPod or not, the iTunes software comes free of charge, with minimal hassle to get it up and running. If they choose to buy another music player or phone knowing very well that their new computer has iTunes on it, Apple isn't getting any of that money anyway. So regardless of it syncing with iTunes or not, if someone prefers another media player, Apple isn't losing significant sales of their iPhone and iPod lines because those people don't buy into the Apple brand of PMPs. So Apple isn't losing any money by allowing other devices to sync with iTunes - if anything, it would be a major selling point to get more people to purchase DRM-free music from iTunes and DRMed content such as movies from iTunes as well - getting more money than they would have "lost" from non-iPod purchases, regardless of how little their margin is - because, again, they don't lose money from a non-iPod purchase.

So then comes the question of unsupported hardware. Easy, the answer is, Apple doesn't have to support it. Since it's clear that a device *can* work with iTunes without full consent and approval by Apple, why not just have the hardware manufacturer of the 3rd party PMP take care of the support? Put a noticeable disclaimer on wherever they advertise iTunes syncing, that Apple does not support the feature and they should contact the 3rd party hardware manufacturer instead, and Apple wouldn't be liable for any complaints. It doesn't hurt apple as stated by my last paragraph, and would actually make iTunes a *much* more useful application on a new Mac if a user already has an existing PMP that supports iTunes sync - they already have a PMP, they don't plan on making another purchase for the sole purpose of iTunes compatibility.

And to the people who are claiming that Palm is piggybacking on the many years of development going into iTunes - tough luck. iTunes is free software in which you have the option of paying for content, and since Apple wouldn't particularly lose sales from interoperability with other devices, it would actually help Apple more than harm them. Apple is only retaliating because Palm has a product that is a direct competitor with the iPhone - and since that competitor happens to be on a different network, with different pricing plans, a different coverage area, yet competitive hardware pricing with the iPhone, I'm pretty damn sure that people who buy a Pre instead of an iPhone are very confident that they prefer the Palm product, on Sprint, over the Apple product, on AT&T, and Apple is not seeing any damn hardware profits coming from them anytime soon, regardless of whether they allow Pre media sync or not. And if someone finds out that they don't really like their newly purchased Pre because of various issues they may come across, Pre media sync is not the reason why they're going to switch to an iPhone, so whether or not Apple enables Pre sync, the profits from the iPhones they sell are dependent on the success or failures of others, not the interoperability of their product and the competitor's. iTunes sync does not a product make.

Rant over.
 
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