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Panther and OS 9

Re: Re: Switch... but to PC

Originally posted by arn


It's chicken and the egg...

let me ask you this... Which will more quickly get pro audio apps ported to OS X?

1) Apple supports OS 9 indefinately (5-10 more years)
2) Apple drops OS 9 now.

Obvously, #2. I fully admit, things will be worse for a while... but in the end, it will be much better.

arn
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Ok, that is a rasonable point but, the thing is: why users have to deal with a one + year period to get the same thing from the manofacturers? I mean, why at this point we do not have "Digital Performer X" or "Protools X", obviously Apple din't take care of that, now the strategy is to push the consumer for us to push the developers ¿?

All this problem is because of the lack of interest of the manofacturers but, we the consumers are paying for that, Apple is the one that wanted to change OS, well, where is the support? This is getting a "traumatic" (is not that dramatic I know) transition for the user.

I can give you a big list of softwares that are not under OSX yet as well as hardware drivers.

I have been more thna a year now since OSX came out.
 
Re: Re: Re: Switch... but to PC

The audio software is coming. At this point, all of the "big three" digital audio workstation software packages have announced OS X versions - Cubase, Digital Performer, and Logic (pre-Apple purchase). We'll see if Cubase follows through given the Logic purchase by Apple, they must have been pretty mad about that. Don't know about ProTools, but I doubt they'd wait much longer given that the competition isn't waiting.

I'm pretty sure that pro audio is the ONLY remaining field that requires a full boot into OS 9 to work, and by the time these new systems come out and this rumor *maybe* comes true, audio software availability probably won't be an issue anymore. I agree with the others - if this were happening with the Power Mac systems just announced, this would be news, but since it's further down the road, it's a total non-issue.
 
Isn't it the other way round?

My understanding of this - which may or may not be completely wrong - is that Apple are not "blocking" the machines from booting in OS 9, they're just not enabling OS 9 to boot the new machines. I think this only means that the motherboard designs are changing in OS X's favour, which of course they must to optimise performance. They can't let Quark dictate their rate of progress.
 
Re: Switch... but to PC

Originally posted by mymemory

Very realistic statement, I do not think many profesionals will jump in to OSX yet. Every single video and audio production post house in my country runs on 9, jus isolated cases where people are using OSX, and are actually hackers or some other graphic designer but not no one running a real busines.
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I can't speak for your country, but here is the USA FinalCut is used extensively for professional video. The major of movie trailers you see in theaters and on video are now edited with FinalCut. I worked for a studio that was going throught the process of switching from Avids to FinalCut stations for all of its television production. If you've used FinalCut on OS9 and then compared it to OSX, you ain't never going back to OS9.

In terms of audio, there has been a significant lag. I believe it had something to do with something missing from OSX prior to Jaguar and that we should now see more tools being upgraded to OSX...I don't know the specifics, but I've heard from reliable people that this is the case, they just didn't provide the technical details.

One really great thing about OSX, is that it's so much easier to develop for that we should see a bunch of prosumer level audio apps...which is what I'm interested in. SoundEdit 16 was a great example of an pre-OS9 prosumer app, but unfortunately it hasn't been updated in years. I don't think Macromedia will ever update it or sell it, but I do think many shareware developers are poised to take its place...please people don't post messages with links to existing OSX shareware audio apps, we've seen them...none of them have multi-track editing capability yet (though this can now come with the changes in Jaguar).

The bottom line is that Quark, and the major audio apps are being ported to OSX and should arrive prior to Apple not upgrading OS9 to run on the yet to be released Macs. Even if there was a bit of a gap, I don't think it would be that big of a deal. A few people would hold off a bit on purchases, or keep their old machines on hand for a while.

I've been using OSX for almost a year now, but I keep an OS9 machine on my desk as well...why not? It's not like you get any real $$$ for an old machine. It's just an old PowerMac 7500 that I use as a Web server, television, and for the rare time I want to test something in OS9.
 
Re: Re: Re: Switch... but to PC

Originally posted by mymemory


Ok, that is a rasonable point but, the thing is: why users have to deal with a one + year period to get the same thing from the manofacturers? I mean, why at this point we do not have "Digital Performer X" or "Protools X"
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You'd better ask the makers of ProTools and Digital Performer. It's not apples fault. The makers of those programs are the ones who are guilty. Besides, Apple just purchased EMagic.
 
The question isn't whose fault it is, but whether Apple should be taking actions that will make it difficult or impossible for their core customers to work on their platform, buy their hardware, etc. Quark and ProTools users are among Apple's most important and loyal customers; it would be ill advised to do anything to alientate these folks, and while "talk to Quark" may be make the hardcore happy, it'll mean more people looking at other platforms.

This may not end up as an issue, since these programs will probably be ported before Panther comes out. But if they aren't, IMO it would be a really really bad idea for Apple to lock out their bread and butter. The last thing they should do is take actions that could potentially limit their sales.

-brennan
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Switch... but to PC

Originally posted by BongHits

...we live in an evolving world, you need to evolutate...
do you mean evolve?
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Yeh something like that .... I was refencing to the evolution, where the grumppy OS9er will go away one day if they want to make any effort in learning new thing:D

Sorry for my English...I'm an ESL:confused:
 
Pro Tools X is around the corner. The developers at Digidesign are currently training their reps on how to use the OS X version and troubleshoot. It should be a finished product within a couple of months. The reason it takes so long to port these apps to OS X is that the audio frameworks are COMPLETELY different than OS 9 and there's a lot to deal with. I don't know if Pro Tools will be a Carbon or Cocoa app, though. I'll see what I can find out.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Switch... but to PC

Originally posted by Mr. G4


Yeh something like that .... I was refencing to the evolution, where the grumppy OS9er will go away one day if they want to make any effort in learning new thing:D

Sorry for my English...I'm an ESL:confused:
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ok i must me be stupid...whats an ESL?
 
Originally posted by MacSlut
I agree. I don't think Panther has anything to do with it. It's more about not updating 9 from being able to boot up a new machine.

Blocking 9 from booting a machine would be stupid, on the other hand not devoting resources to developing the code modifications and confusing users with another version of 9 just isn't worth it.
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Blocking 9 from booting would be very smart at some point. What percentage of the cost of a product do you think is spent on code modifications versus QA and support? Even if 9 seemed to boot perfectly on some mythical future machine, at some point it makes sense to block its booting and spend the QA and support money on making X that much better. I don't think we've reached that point yet, but it seems that the last generation of people that really need a bootable 9 are some of the audio and video people, and those ports are likely coming fast.
 
Originally posted by Choppaface
hmmm how bout supporting my scanner before you drop 9 apple? or at least tip off a developer to write some sort of TWAIN app that will be compatible with it.....
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And my new Canon 1240U works just fine with the beta drivers made available weeks ago ;-)

I only had to ditch my Umax, but that's no real loss. Scanners don't cost **** anymore.

;-)
 
Sure!Go ahead,dump OS 9.I won't be buying a new Mac for quite some time.
Everybody seems to think the audio issue is solved as soon as the big name sequencers are ported.How much is it going to cost to upgrade $15k-$2k worth of audio software anyways?Which will of course all be made available the day you decide to switch!Anyone here have any idea the sheer volume of 3'rd party plugins and vst etc.soft synths that either cost an arm and a leg,or are so free they will probably never get ported? How many smaller,very usefull little apps are available that we will be lucky to see ported any time soon?You expect me to just jump into Nuendo for Mac OS X without 95% of the tools and toys that are the heart and soul of what I do?
I am not made of the money that lets me buy whatever I fancy like some of the wankers on this board,and I have no mind to just discard everything I've invested because some a**hole tells me to "let go of the past".Must be those jerks who needs the fastest,shiniest most expensive email machines they can get their hands on whom are so adamant that we stop whining about change! OS X does do email!!!
If Apple dumps OS 9 in the next two years,they are not going to be selling new computers to a lot of dedicated Mac audio types.
They upgrade their machines so goddam slow,why are they in such a hurry to downgrade their user base so fast?
If OS 9 (then OS X)were running on PC hardware,I would bail sooo fast,cause I really don't see what's so special about Apple hardware anyways,except that it's shiny,totally un-user buildable from select components and costs 35% more than it should!
 
Originally posted by JupiterZen


Extremely OFF TOPIC ;)

As a Dutch newbie here I want to say that this American beeping thing over words that are ordinary good english, really frustrates me every time.

What if I want to have a discussion about human fecies?

;)
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There are certain words on Macrumors that are cencorsed. So if you type in certain words it will automatically cencesor them for you when you post.

so you cant say ****, because even though I typed it, it was cencored.....but I can say crap.

So you dont need to be pissed of at "this american beeping thing".
 
Originally posted by teabgs


There are certain words on Macrumors that are cencorsed. So if you type in certain words it will automatically cencesor them for you when you post.

so you cant say ****, because even though I typed it, it was cencored.....but I can say crap.

So you dont need to be pissed of at "this american beeping thing".
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Well, than I have to get my English dicionary out so I can find really obscure words for common things :D

But seriously. Why are these words censored? In my opinion it stand directly in contrast to the American "freedom of expression"-thing you all hold so high up.

So I really don't understand the need for censorship.

And could I have a list of the words so that I can prevent using them in my posts :rolleyes:
 
It makes NO sense for them to do this.

You never take customer options away, especially when you are the underdog.

TL
 
Re: Re: Not exactly blocked

Originally posted by Rocketman

I am wondering what will NOT work in Classic that does work in OS9 itself? Name 5 things that are actual losses.
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well for me here are just a few:
Digital Performer
Absynth
Reaktor
Reason 1.0
Logic
Metasynth
MAX/MSP
and a metric shi+load of VST instruments and FX.

dumping OS 9 boot up will screw me and alot of others i know.
 
Originally posted by TechLarry
It makes NO sense for them to do this.

You never take customer options away, especially when you are the underdog.

TL
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Steve Jobs did tell the WWDC that OS 9 is dead. These 9 only apps need to be ported to OS X. Carbon has been available for how long? I want apple to spend it's money and time on OS X development, not OS 9 life support. Yell at the software vendors, as well as apple.
 
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