Panther by Mid-October?

[henryblackman]

Originally posted by iJon
the announcment day for panther has not come yet. they have told us that panther is in existence and will come before the end of the year. the announcment day is when steve tells everyeone when the exact day panther will ship. and from that day on if you buy a mac or jaguar you will recieve a copy of panther for 20 dollars, covering shipping and handling.

iJon

I partly agree. Only Apple know the date of shipping of Panther and this has not yet been made public. Nontheless, an annoucement has been made. We know most of us will have a final GM copy of Panther before 31st December 2003.

Apple has a tendancy not to acknowledge a products existance until it ships though. The 17" PowerBook and G5 are exceptions to this, I believe to allow hype to build and to fit with their conference schedule.

I also agree that those purchasing Macs (including G5's) are buying knowing Panther will be available reasonably soon; but I do believe that there should be some compensation for that. I'd like to see it free (or $20 for shipping), of course I don't think it will happen.

We don't see MS doing this either, but their "annoucement of Longhorn" is what, 4 years ahead? This is an annoucement of a roadmap, which is fine, but Apple's "annoucement" is a little closer than this.

 

[esheep2001]

Originally posted by henryblackman
Actually, legally, a contract is indeed entered into at the point of ordering. It however cannot be changed once payment is taken (but can be before). The delivery dates are "expected", if you read the small print of the purchase contract it says Apple can change the delivery date and it is not a guarenteed date.

Hey, I have no problems with that. I just thought you wanted G5 purchasers left in the cold.

Apple have never said you get Panther for free, so they have no requirement to do so. I however think they *should* since the G5 was announced after Panther. I'm just saying it shouldn't be limited to G5 buyers.

That's cool and i agree 100%. I think we just got our wires a little crossed

e.

 

[iJon]

Originally posted by henryblackman
I partly agree. Only Apple know the date of shipping of Panther and this has not yet been made public. Nontheless, an annoucement has been made. We know most of us will have a final GM copy of Panther before 31st December 2003.

Apple has a tendancy not to acknowledge a products existance until it ships though. The 17" PowerBook and G5 are exceptions to this, I believe to allow hype to build and to fit with their conference schedule.

I also agree that those purchasing Macs (including G5's) are buying knowing Panther will be available reasonably soon; but I do believe that there should be some compensation for that. I'd like to see it free (or $20 for shipping), of course I don't think it will happen.

We don't see MS doing this either, but their "annoucement of Longhorn" is what, 4 years ahead? This is an annoucement of a roadmap, which is fine, but Apple's "annoucement" is a little closer than this.

what do you mean you partly agree, thats how apple does it and did it last time. apple lets us know that panther exists. but customers dont benefit until the day where they annouce an exact shipment date. apple did this last year, but powermacs benefited from it. apple introduced jaguar in may at wwdc, steve said it would ship by summers end. later on in the summer apple announced that jaguar would ship on august something if i remember right. then steve said if you buy a mac with 10.1 or a 10.1 box you would recieve a free upgrade by mail for 20 dollars, or if you were lucky apple threw in the discs before shipment. the way the powermacs benefitted that time is that apple shipped the new powermacs about a week before jaguar was announced and apple reloaded jaguar on to them. i just dont understand when you said you partly agree, because that is how it will be done.

iJon

 

[henryblackman]

Originally posted by esheep2001
That's cool and i agree 100%. I think we just got our wires a little crossed

e.

Apologies if I came across a little harsh.

While I value what Apple does very much, and I appreciate the break-neck speed of OS X development; I do worry that Apple are setting a trend of $129 each year to keep current.

Support is dropped quickly of the last version which frankly is a shame - although it is not without reason (such dramatic changes version to version - again with good reason). MS has not long dropped support for Windows 95 - a 8 year old OS - but Apple has already dropped support for 10.1 - an (just) under 2 year old OS. Seems a little eager to me.

I'll no doubt pay $129 (with EDU discount) each year as I feel it's worth it. I'm also paying to be ADC Select so I've legitimately seen Panther and I can see how far Apple is going, especially under the hood, but it's an expensive business.

If this was Microsoft, they've be slaughtered by the press, customers, business etc.

 

[henryblackman]

Originally posted by iJon
what do you mean you partly agree, thats how apple does it and did it last time. apple lets us know that panther exists. but customers dont benefit until the day where they annouce an exact shipment date. apple did this last year, but powermacs benefited from it. apple introduced jaguar in may at wwdc, steve said it would ship by summers end.

SNIP SNIP SNIP

i just dont understand when you said you partly agree, because that is how it will be done.

iJon

I partly agree because I maintain that an annoucement has been made. A pretty clear one at that.

However given your own logic that an annoucement has not been made how do you know exactly what will be done? Apple may not repeat what they did for 10.2, they did give away 10.1 for people who had the coupons 2 years ago. I know, I got mine for free.

At the end of the day I'm stating my opinion. Clearly yours differs, however it is no more based on fact in this instance than mine. Given that Apple have indeed not mentioned a price tag, or upgrade schedule, I would say this is perhaps a litt more open than we might first suggest. You should probably read the post above which also discusses this point.

 

[iJon]

Originally posted by henryblackman
I partly agree because I maintain that an annoucement has been made. A pretty clear one at that.

However given your own logic that an annoucement has not been made how do you know exactly what will be done? Apple may not repeat what they did for 10.2, they did give away 10.1 for people who had the coupons 2 years ago. I know, I got mine for free.

At the end of the day I'm stating my opinion. Clearly yours differs, however it is no more based on fact in this instance than mine.

apple will do this because they like money, and they did it last time. if apple announces panther will come out in a month, no one will buy a mac because they will wait until panther comes installed on it. this way yo utell the customer, sure go ahead and buy it, and just mail this in and they will send it to you. and by the way, you didnt have to have coupons to get 10.1 for free. you just walked in a got it, and 20 dollars for shipping for people who couldnt walk in and get it.

iJon

 

[jZilla]

Originally posted by Hawthorne
$130 bucks for Expose and the font management by themselves is worth it to me.

Don't expect their (apple's) font management to be good enough for "professional" use, I just can't see it being "as good" (ie it's not great) as Extensis Suitcase for eg.

Sure getting a chance to not have loads of duplicated fonts will be cool, but as it stands I expect to install Extensis Suitcase even with Panther.

YMMV of course.

 

[jZilla]

Originally posted by henryblackman


My point was why should it have to give anything away specifically for G5 buyers?

Mine was that they told us how fast the G5 was/is but that it's dramatically slower under Jaguar (Smeagol) so maybe there is a case for G5 buyers to get a voucher/discount when Panther finally ships.

?

 

[henryblackman]

Originally posted by iJon
apple will do this because they like money, and they did it last time. if apple announces panther will come out in a month, no one will buy a mac because they will wait until panther comes installed on it. this way yo utell the customer, sure go ahead and buy it, and just mail this in and they will send it to you. and by the way, you didnt have to have coupons to get 10.1 for free. you just walked in a got it, and 20 dollars for shipping for people who couldnt walk in and get it.

iJon

Really this is annoying, but I'll post one last time. You shot me down for saying what Apple should do, but you are predicting the future mate. You might be right, but in your own words it's not been announced yet so it's still an open issue.

Apple aren't as greedy as you make out. Look at iLife. Not the cost upgrade like was predicted (unless you want iDVD which is fair enough). Perhaps due to reports of Steve Jobs reading forums and backtracking, or perhaps the plan all along. No one knows until it's announced do they?!

You're comment re; no one will buy a Mac until Panther ships. Hello? We all know it's coming, and yet people are buying the G5 knowing it will come with 10.2.7. Your circular arguement is finally agreeing with what I made out in the first place.

Oh, and you're wrong re: 10.1. I had to present coupons at my local Apple dealer, otherwise no go. Perhaps this was different for you, but it is fact for me.

Can we close this issue now? No one knows what will happen for sure, things can change, Apple might charge, or might not, might give it to G5 owners or not. It's all opinion and all heresay until the final annoucement is made. Here's for Apple Expo Paris later this month.

 

[henryblackman]

Originally posted by jZilla
Mine was that they told us how fast the G5 was/is but that it's dramatically slower under Jaguar (Smeagol) so maybe there is a case for G5 buyers to get a voucher/discount when Panther finally ships.

?

A good point, but my iMac is a lot slower under Jag than Panther too... and I'd love to get it free

 

[iJon]

Originally posted by henryblackman
Really this is annoying, but I'll post one last time. You shot me down for saying what Apple should do, but you are predicting the future mate. You might be right, but in your own words it's not been announced yet so it's still an open issue.

Apple aren't as greedy as you make out. Look at iLife. Not the cost upgrade like was predicted (unless you want iDVD which is fair enough). Perhaps due to reports of Steve Jobs reading forums and backtracking, or perhaps the plan all along. No one knows until it's announced do they?!

You're comment re; no one will buy a Mac until Panther ships. Hello? We all know it's coming, and yet people are buying the G5 knowing it will come with 10.2.7. Your circular arguement is finally agreeing with what I made out in the first place.

Oh, and you're wrong re: 10.1. I had to present coupons at my local Apple dealer, otherwise no go. Perhaps this was different for you, but it is fact for me.

Can we close this issue now? No one knows what will happen for sure, things can change, Apple might charge, or might not, might give it to G5 owners or not. It's all opinion and all heresay until the final annoucement is made. Here's for Apple Expo Paris later this month.

we can close it, wasnt trying to piss you off or anything. and yes the 10.1 issue was different for me, as coupons were not needed and i didnt see why they would have to be because you arent allowed to sell them and every store, reseller or apple store got boxes of 10.1 cd's for free. but you are right, it is up in the air, and we realy dont nkow what will happen, i just assume thats what they will do and stick by it. and about the g5 thing, i cant imagine apple giving panther free to them, that would be a generous gift though, 100,000 free copies of panther, but who knows.

iJon

 

[splatter]

About Marklar...

A guy I know "may or may not" have "marklar". Anyway, what I saw was amazing and repulsive at the same time. He had what seemed to be either an early version of Marklar or a really spiffy windows theme that also allows the user to run .app files. It bogged down the system a lot and he didn't have the ability to open .dmgs w/o special libs. Safari ran on this PC but I tried an app file that is compiled like a .pkg (quake 3) and it read it as a folder, so i don't know whats up w/ that. Anyway, It was built onto windows, he had to reformat his harddrive and files to HFS+ and it would run windows and some cocoa applications simultaneously. You don't have to believe me, but I know what I saw. It was a nice idea, but I still would prefer the apple OS on mac hardware, especially if you have to keep windows to run OS X.

Edit: I just looked at safari and its compiled like a .pkg too, I dont know why it would run safari, but not Q3. I'll try some other programs when i get a chance and see how they fare.

PS: I'm working on getting screenshots from the guy

 

[AppleMatt]

Originally posted by henryblackman
I agree with OpenGL. It seems to be getting slower, first through the 10.2.3 to 10.2.6, and now in Panther.

Lastly, Quicktime. Have Apple forgotten about it? As far as I can see, the player is very different in 10.3 seeds. At least in terms of the options in Movie Properties (I can no longer turn on High Quality); and it appears to be more responsive. However this may just be the player. I seem to remember better support for Quicktime in Cocoa APIs in Panther, but I may have just made that up.

I'd like a Finder that really is multi-threaded. I can't bear having to wait with a spinning ball when browsing my iDisk (remotely). I know this probably comes down to WebDav, but I see it a lot when the spinning ball appears and that's that. Multi-tasking OS my arse.

I don't know what's going on with QuickTime, my guess is to make an omelet you have to break some eggs. I'm positive performance and options will match Jaguar, and hopefully exceed it, eventually.

OpenGL...who knows. On the one hand you would think that it would improve greatly, but on the other you wonder why it still isn't faster in this late stage.

Agreed about BBOD.

AppleMatt

 

[trianglejuice]

Originally posted by dongmin
Yeah!

Anyone try Panther on an iBook? Jaguar runs decent on my G3 500 mhz, but it's still way slower than OS 9. I used 9 for the first time in a few months and couldn't get over how much faster everything was.

No biggee. I'll be shelling out for a G5 dualie soon. I just want to make sure I don't completely abandon my iBook, my baby.

One way to fasten your iBook, is get the full ram (640 MB). Now you can run Mac OS X more smoothly (and it's even faster than OS 9).
A second way is to get Panther. I tried the very first beta (alpha actually) and it's a huge difference compared to Panther. I even can say that it's a bigger step from Mac OS X.2 to X.3 than from X.0/X.1 to X.2.
I have an iBook 600/640 and with the possibilities of OS X.3 I can say I'll never switch to OS 9 again...

TJ

 

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by jZilla
The target audience by far is the G5 owning crew - who have been dicked about no end.

No voucher/discount will really be a slap in the much.

here's hoping for _something_ back from Apple.

I am trying to undersdtand your logic that machines that have been out a week or two could have owners being dicked around by anybody for anything? Oh, ya. What logic?

Rocketman

 

[Macmaniac]

I've heard it pre-orders for $180 maybe I'm wrong but it could be true

 

[Brother Mugga]

Totally and utterly tangential, but...

Is it just me, or are there an inordinately large number of Brits posting on this thread? I clocked some of the idioms and then looked at those postings that have locations.

Is it a holiday in the U.S. and no bugger bothers posting from home, or what?

Or maybe it's always like this and I've only just noticed?

Cheers

Brother Mugga

 

[CheekyGit]

Nice Xmas gift....

Panther would be a nice Xmas gift. Order it in October and it will show up in mail sometime in December. Sorry to be sarcastic. With the shipping delays of the PowerBooks and PowerMacs, I can't help to think that Panther would join that club too.

 

[iJon]

Re: Nice Xmas gift....

Originally posted by CheekyGit
Panther would be a nice Xmas gift. Order it in October and it will show up in mail sometime in December. Sorry to be sarcastic. With the shipping delays of the PowerBooks and PowerMacs, I can't help to think that Panther would join that club too.

apple usually does a pretty good job with software. ealier this year they had a problem with ilife and it shipped a week later.

iJon

 

[henryblackman]

Re: Totally and utterly tangential, but...

Originally posted by Brother Mugga
Is it just me, or are there an inordinately large number of Brits posting on this thread? I clocked some of the idioms and then looked at those postings that have locations.

Is it a holiday in the U.S. and no bugger bothers posting from home, or what?

It's a holiday! That and I was in work trying not to do any work

 

[etoiles]

Re: Totally and utterly tangential, but...

Originally posted by Brother Mugga
Is it just me, or are there an inordinately large number of Brits posting on this thread? I clocked some of the idioms and then looked at those postings that have locations.

Is it a holiday in the U.S. and no bugger bothers posting from home, or what?

Or maybe it's always like this and I've only just noticed?

Cheers

Brother Mugga

Labour Day

 

[panphage]

Re: Totally and utterly tangential, but...

Originally posted by Brother Mugga
Is it just me, or are there an inordinately large number of Brits posting on this thread? I clocked some of the idioms and then looked at those postings that have locations.

Is it a holiday in the U.S. and no bugger bothers posting from home, or what?

Or maybe it's always like this and I've only just noticed?

Cheers

Brother Mugga

It's labor day, the last major holiday of the Summer in the US. Most people are barbequeing and getting pissed and flashing frat boys at the lake.

 

[etoiles]

Originally posted by iJon
and yes the 10.1 issue was different for me, as coupons were not needed and i didnt see why they would have to be because you arent allowed to sell them and every store, reseller or apple store got boxes of 10.1 cd's for free.

I went to the Valley Fair Apple store with my coupons to get 10.1 a few months after the release, only to be told that they had run out of CD's, that I couldn't get the upgrade from Apple any longer and that my best bet was to try another store like CompUSA or the like... the sales guy (who had just finished his instore presentation of OSX) refused to burn me a copy, too, citing some licensing/copyright BS. I wasn't very happy, eventually just got it from a friend...

Anyway, just to say yes, your experience with ugrades may vary.

 

[CompUSAMacNerd]

CompUSAMacNerd,
It's not just prettier, there's a lot of under the hood improvements as-well, take a read of the linked articles for examples. Couple that with the improved performance of apps on existing hardware, I'm sold.

AppleMatt [/B][/QUOTE]

Oh yah. I'm pretty sure that there is a lot improvements that isn't real noticeable to the naked eye by staring at the O/S itself, but I'm also just thinking for my needs.

Quartz Extreme is definitly cool and I'll admit that. I didn't mention it before (cuz I'm at work and I didn't have a lot of time to really talk). I was playing Warcraft on my iBook and did see a noticeable difference in speed and preformance. It rocked.

But, for my needs, which is real, real basic photoshopping and dream weaver, I don't know if the improvements will really help me out in the long run. Its just /another/ 130 bucks I'd have to shell out after doing it for Jaguar. If this happens on a year to year basis, thats a lot of money to shell out everytime they come out with an 'improvement'. I think offering upgrade plans with proof of purchase of previous versions, that'd it'd make customers, and retailers (Like me) happier

My argument is not with the OS/, cuz it rocks. I just can't see myself, at least, shelling out another 130 for the OS.

See ya guys :>

 

[beefstu01]

And I, as a student at Cornell University, had class today. A day of labor. Yay.