Patreon Planning iOS App Update to Skirt In-App Purchases

[threesixty360]

I think the judge is forcing them to accept the ruling they already had against them? Apple are just where they should have been by now right? So Pateron et al would have done this anyway.

The only place left for Apple is to compete with payment companies and offer more than Stripe or Epic in terms of functionality and lower their prices. I imagine IAP is crucial to the business of hosting / verifying free apps.

Knowing them they will get their money some other way. Maybe the avg IAP purchase amount made by users will be added on to the price of Apple devices? Ultimately the consumers will end up paying for this rather than the developers or Apple themselves.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

Bingo. Greedy developers don’t seem to understand that a 70/30 split with Apple on any given purchase from any given customer is still more profitable to them than no sale at all to said customer.

Why can't the software be sold BOTH places? People are so black or white...

 

[walnuts]

I'm optimistic that this is enough of a gut punch through Apple's plans that hopefully they announce a new, worldwide, developer and competition friendly plan that can finally stop this rent-seeking nonsense and just focus on being a good App Store- one that competes on merit not lock-in. I think it's not too late to win back support if they do it right. Desperately clinging to the pockets where they can still get away with rent seeking can't possibly be worth it anymore.

 

[spazzcat]

You've got it wrong. The developers wouldn't make a penny without iPhone users. Apple made their money when they sold the phone to the user. Any transaction between the user and the developer should not involve Apple. Not to mention, developers pay a fee to Apple to be a developer.

You really have no idea what Apple provides developers. Apple provides them a store, a platform, payment process, and development tools. And I agree, they need each other the App Store does not maintain itself for free.

 

[spazzcat]

Apple bout to get dried up on services.

I have a feeling very little is going to change...

 

[iOS Geek]

Why can't the software be sold BOTH places? People are so black or white...

Never said it couldn’t. But be honest…unless it’s a requirement to sell in both places…quite a few (if greedy enough)would jump at the opportunity to NOT.

 

[spazzcat]

You will be able to buy it still - it will either stay the same price as it is now in the App Store (but discounted directly through developer w/CC payment) or it will go up in price (in which case the developer decided to be greedy and raise their App Store price to make more money). I doubt many software's will leave the App Store.

Magically the price will be the same in both places.

 

[jimothyGator]

Without Apple, these developers would be making apps for other platforms. And in that situation, not many people would prefer to buy Apple devices. Apple would only make a fraction of their revenue without the app developers. It’s a mutual relationship, but Apple isn’t treating developers as equals.

And yet they were (and are) making apps for iOS, so that demonstrates that even with Apple taking a 30% cut, developers found this an acceptable deal. It is, as you mentioned, a mutually beneficial relationship or it wouldn't happen.

 

[Adamb10]

30% is hardly greedy considering none of these developers would make a penny without Apple.

And apple wouldn’t make a penny without developers. Goes both ways.

 

[vantelimus]

All Apple had to do was NOT be greedy; now they may lose all access to app money.

Who does Apple they think they are, charging the same rates as every other tech company for access to their platform? This is a win for the freeloaders and a loss of incentives to innovate. Why should investors spend billions to create something novel and unique with such high value that it changes the very nature of the way people communicate when the ability to make a profit will be taken away by the courts?

 

[mdriftmeyer]

This is one I absolutely approve of.

What Patreon is charging of creators, and for what, and that entire relationship, has nothing to do with Apple and they should get no cut of it at all.

Why? Without Apple this business goss bankrupt in less than one year. They depend on platform interoperability, third party testing and certification from Apple, have an exceedingly small developer investment and access to > 1 billion potential clients w/o having to reach them haphazardly that is the Web.

Why do you suppose Epic still wants to be reinstated within the ecosystem? They can't make profits without it.

Tencent has been subsidizing them steadily since their near majority investment in Epic. Tencent is pushing for Epic to resolve matters and get access to those store customers once again they arrogantly thought would bypass the store to head to their site.

They found out it's not happening.

 

[lenard]

The way I look at if these companies want to stay on the App Store for free and skirt fees
then I see no need to buy from them thru their payment process.

 

[vantelimus]

Without Apple, these developers would be making apps for other platforms. And in that situation, not many people would prefer to buy Apple devices. Apple would only make a fraction of their revenue without the app developers. It’s a mutual relationship, but Apple isn’t treating developers as equals.

You forget that Apple investors risked billions of dollars to create this market.

 

[bcortens]

Why? Without Apple this business goss bankrupt in less than one year. They depend on platform interoperability, third party testing and certification from Apple, have an exceedingly small developer investment and access to > 1 billion potential clients w/o having to reach them haphazardly that is the Web.

Patreon would absolutely not be bankrupt in a year without Apple. I would argue when Apple started to force them to adopt IAP they should have just switched to a PWA.

 

[vantelimus]

Bingo. Greedy developers don’t seem to understand that a 70/30 split with Apple on any given purchase from any given customer is still more profitable to them than no sale at all to said customer.

Not to mention that the people who believe this will bring them lower prices are going to find prices outside the App Store will not be 30% less, and if they are discounted at first, they will within short order be raised back up to the price they are charging now through the App Store. It is naïve to think that developers don't operate under the same capitalist incentives to make as much profit as possible as do large companies.

 

[vantelimus]

And apple wouldn’t make a penny without developers. Goes both ways.

You act as if there is no value to the Apple ecosystem and the hardware. There is a lot. The number of apps I use that I have paid money for on the iPhone is probably 3, of which, only one remains out of a total of 100. You are mistaken if you think the iPhone exists in any significant part because people can buy apps for it. The most valuable apps to most users are free social media apps or other apps subsidized through advertising.

 

[bcortens]

Not to mention that the people who believe this will bring them lower prices are going to find prices outside the App Store will not be 30% and it will within short order be raised back up to the price they are charging now through the App Store. It is naïve to think that developers don't operate under the same capitalist incentives to make as much profit as possible as do large companies.

You’re just ignoring history right now.
Patreon literally just went though this, they gave creators a choice of either raising prices or taking a revenue cut…
So, for creators that were forced to raise their prices (because they couldn’t afford to eat the lost revenue) this absolutely will lead to lower prices.

 

[Plutonius]

The CEO must live in section 8 housing, wanting everything for free.

Most people and all companies want everything for free until it impacts them.

 

[Chungry]

You really have no idea what Apple provides developers. Apple provides them a store, a platform, payment process, and development tools. And I agree, they need each other the App Store does not maintain itself for free.

I pay for their sucky tools. I take exception. We can't make first class AVP apps because of their lack of focus and precision

 

[vantelimus]

You’re just ignoring history right now.
Patreon literally just went though this, they gave creators a choice of either raising prices or taking a revenue cut…
So, for creators that were forced to raise their prices (because they couldn’t afford to eat the lost revenue) this absolutely will lead to lower prices.

You are ignoring human nature.

 

[verdi1987]

Oh good, go have your credit card info stolen from a low quality payment system. 😂

They already have a payment system in place that they were using prior to the in-app requirement change that began late last year. There was a direct payment option in-app. Presumably, they would just need to restore that functionality. Incidentally, it accepted Pay, and they continue to accept Pay on the web.

 

[verdi1987]

Magically the price will be the same in both places.

Currently, most creators on Patreon have opted to pass along the increase to patrons, so the web prices are lower than the in-app prices. (I think by default the subscription prices were increased as subscriptions were migrated.)

Creators set the subscription offerings, not Patreon.

 

[bcortens]

You are ignoring human nature.

You claimed, without evidence, that prices would stay the same. Patreon was forced to raise prices on iOS, creators told their audiences that they were being forced to raise prices and encouraged them to go to the web.
This is real history that happened last year! If I’m right Patreon will let creators advertise the lower web price with links. If you’re right the prices on the web will be raised to match the iOS prices.

I am not worried about being wrong on this.

 

[bcortens]

You act as if there is no value to the Apple ecosystem and the hardware. There is a lot. The number of apps I use that I have paid money for on the iPhone is probably 3, of which, only one remains out of a total of 100. You are mistaken if you think the iPhone exists in any significant part because people can buy apps for it. The most valuable apps to most users are free social media apps or other apps subsidized through advertising.

You may be unique then, or perhaps it’s me.

I will say flat out if the iPhone didn’t have third party apps I wouldn’t have a iPhone. I also wouldn’t have AirPods or an Apple watch or an iPad. So that’s four hardware purchases Apple would lose if they didn’t have third party app support on iOS and iPadOS.

 

[frenchcamp49er]

Can’t wait for the whining when Apple adds fees