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PayPal Angling for Mobile Payment Partnership with Apple

Macboy Pro said:
Also, remember, Paypal is regulated by the government as a financial institution. Much of what they do is to protect their business from fraud and audits showing they let fraud happen. I would trust my money with Paypal before I would with Apple. IMHO
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They are not regulated as a financial institution -- with the exception of in Luxembourg. They skirt this by offering their "services" via GE Capital and MasterCard, who are regulated. The funds held with PP are not insured thru the FDIC or NCIA, they have no charter, there are no audit examinations, and there is no disclosure or oversights that hit banks and other NBFI's.

Trusting your money with Paypal is akin to using your mailbox as a safe deposit box. High volume users will be fine, they'll jump thru hoops to protect them for fear of being found out as fraudsters themselves. But the average user? They're just a number.

I'd rather buy mortgage backed securities in 2007 than put any money in Paypal... at least I'd have something left after getting screwed.
 
Paypal is awful. Please don't do this Apple. PayPal has permanently locked my account with no explanation and no way to appeal. I've switched from eBay to Amazon Marketplace simply to avoid having to use PayPal.
 
Lazy said:
1) He doesn't necessarily know about the experience of small sellers.

2) Do you think Paypal is going to do their crap on a) someone famous, or b) a million dollar account? There's got to be some dollar threshold where transactions get some high level individual review before any actions are taken.

3) He can afford the lawyers to take action against Paypal if they screw him over, and not only get his money back, but possibly get damages. But if would never come to that. Do you think Paypal would let a the bad publicity from such a suit happen? They would just not screw him over in the first place (see number 2 above), or if they did something wrong by mistake they would just say oh we're very sorry Mr. CK and rush to fix it.
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Yeah that's a good point.

I don't think PayPal would want to screw with Apple either.

If this deal went through... there would be lots of money flowing into PayPal thanks to Apple.

I think PayPal would be even more careful with a company like Apple... moreso than with a celebrity like Louis CK.
 
ThisIsNotMe said:
I don't think you understand how payment processing works.

Those 'fees' are derived from fees charged by VISA, ect.
You think VISA processes payments for free?

On top of that you have PayPal which is a company and the only goal of a company is to generate revenue for shareholders.

Do you think that PayPal should simple provide their online service for free?
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Yes I quite understand. And already stated it is a cost of doing business and would never expect it for free.

But Paypal fees are high. Plus their exchange rates on currencies are high. I should be permitted to put US funds into a US account in a Canadian bank and decide at what exchange rate I want to use, not Paypal. Paypal use to do this and then decided it could take even more by not offering this service. They would do the exchange at their rate. 2.9% is not bad, but then add on a bad exchange rate and it does not help.

I use to sit on my US funds and watch the market in the days when I could put US dollars in my US bank account. It was such a nice way to recover some of those fees that I had to pay.
 
rofl my last reply on this board was im glad apple is doing mobile payment because I hate paypal! Hah what a slap in the face. Good luck with that apple.
 
BvizioN said:
Not sure why so negative comments about PayPal! I have been using it for over 8 years and it has been great for me. Never had a problem with it. That said, I would still want Apple do implement it on it's own.
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Let me tell you why I hate paypal. I use my credit card on there for everything at first, then they tell me I need to be verified ? Which is a scam to get your banking information. I give them the info and I purchase a new computer which cost me $700. It defaulted my funding source from my bank and guess what?! there went my rent money! and paypal told me to go to hell when I asked them to reverse it and charge my card. I got over that and asked that they make my default funding source my credit card and guess what?! Impossible to do so, why? Because they don't want to pay visa fees.. I would have to change it manually every time to use it. I hate paypal :mad:
 
Lazy said:
You are missing something: the horrible, criminal, callus experience with Paypal that so many people have had.

And Paypal should be very afraid of *any* other company that can offer a decent payments experience to a large number of people. Particularly a company with a well-known and highly regarded brand name.
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Oh, I guess we'll have to wait for Apple to come up with one.

That being said, anything that can take over for most of the brick and morter banks is okay with me.
 
furi0usbee said:
Apple should buy Stripe and build off that. Stripe has a very slick system already in place. Not only could they use it as the backbone for their payment system, but would be used to pay out devs, or any monetary transactions that go on behind the scenes.

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I used PayPal from 2001 until last year on my websites. I used it for both standard purchases as well as subscriptions. Do you know how much money I lost every year because people "forgot" to cancel their subscription or claimed to PayPal their card was used for an "unauthorized" purchase? Even though I could prove these people signed up a year ago, then after a renewal, said their card was used without their permission.. I always had to give the money back. Err... PayPal always TOOK my money and gave it back.

You don't even want to know my story about a guy who stole my MacBook Pro on eBay, and how it took me 4 months to get my money back from PayPal. Let me just say I had 100 pages in a PDF file of documents and evidence. Total nightmare. I was ready to sue them in small claims court, so they relented.

I now use Stripe on my subscription site, and it was a blessing. Since I had to rewrite most of the code for use with Stripe, I went ahead and just rewrote the entire back end, and it was a blessing in disguise.

Thanks PayPal!
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I agree that PayPal is no good....really, I don't think there are many companies worse than them.

That being said, automatically renewing subscriptions are evil and you deserve what you got as far as the subscriptions go for selling them.

Those that sell them count of the fact that a certain percentage will forget to cancel them. Bottom line, is if I pay for a month, let me pay for one month then renew if I choose to do so. If you offer a free subscription, allow the free subscription and then allow me to choose to renew or not, don't just automatically assume.

As for your story about the MacBook Pro.....this is exactly why I say they are no good. I would even go so far as to say they are plain evil. The worse part about this is that the other person probably never saw the money in their account. PayPal used it as an excuse to hold the money in their accounts and make interest off of it. Now, granted the amount of money that this amounts to for just your transaction is minuscule; however, if you figure there could be a million disputes at any given time, this adds up very quickly.

I have been on both the buyer side and the seller side of disputes and really, PayPal can't handle either of them. It's one of the reasons that I no longer buy anything from eBay or sellers that only accept PayPal. Instead, I tend to buy from Amazon and use Amazon Payment System. Why? Because when there is a problem, Amazon steps up and takes care of it quickly. It doesn't matter if it's their fault or not. Now, I do admit that I tend to avoid the Amazon marketplace, because I have had issues with a few sellers there and yes, Amazon stepped in to make it right, but I don't need that kind of headache.
 
Please Apple, partnership with PayPal would be a huge mistake, both for Apple's consumers and Apple Developers. Yuck, phewey, bleh, this would be load of dreck the rest of us do not want. C'mon Tim, do the right thing and say no.
 
I still have to use Paypal but if Apple did a seperate real alternative I would go for Apple.
 
Funny this topic should come to my attention today... As I just went and removed our credit cards from being stored on paypal (that was the first site, before going on to others like airlines, etc.)

Since the iCloud Keychain nicely, safely, and conveniently stores credit card information, it makes little sense to persistently store a card's info at multiple sites rarely used (only makes sense to store on a site that is frequently used or needs to make running top-ups, like Skype.

Re a partnership, I can't see the advantage to apple. If they design and roll out well, they will become a major player in a very short time. Indeed, with its scale, apple could directly play the roles currently enjoyed by banks and credit card companies and supplant the old players. (One day, you may buy your smoke detector from google, but you finance your mortgage and home renovations through Apple's iBank) Disruption pure!
 
gotluck said:
I'm just saying it's alot of protection. It's hard to imagine everyone here crucifying paypal is a seller of goods that could be deemed 'not as described'.

I won't sell, say used phones, on ebay, but I still sell stuff on ebay
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So maybe you've just been lucky because you sell items that attract clientele that are less likely to try to scam you. I don't picture a lot of lowlifes buying, say, scrapbooking kits.

But there are so many things that a buyer might try to scam off of a seller by playing the "not as described" card. DVDs, collectibles, electronics... it's just too easy to do and PayPal will, EVERY TIME, give the buyer his money back and screw the seller.

In my case I got lucky because the guy waited too long. Do you know what I was selling? Professional video gear. (This was back in the day before everybody and his dog was a filmmaker on YouTube.)

Listen folks, I'm not trying to poop on PayPal here. If you've had years of good experiences, then GREAT, I hope that continues. But all it takes is one loser to say "not as described" and you will lose your money. Be warned.
 
Macboy Pro said:
I know a small business owner that does almost $1M a year through Paypal and has had ZERO problems. I know a half dozen friends/family that have had MANY problems with Apple warranties, from lying technicians to different stories from different people on the same day. All companies can have bad Apples (pardon the pun) but I would not try and act like Apple is honorable and Paypal isn't. Thats ludicrous. People that hate Paypal are people who typically did not follow the policies or are practicing sketchy ethics themselves.

Also, remember, Paypal is regulated by the government as a financial institution. Much of what they do is to protect their business from fraud and audits showing they let fraud happen. I would trust my money with Paypal before I would with Apple. IMHO
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not true, I got scammed, seller closed account, Paypal said they cant do anything, since account was closed. So I lost $35, and I closed my account..too many scams. Not just me, read all the posts on this forum.
 
I wouldn't trust PayPal as far as I can throw them, and it's not that far. They are unregulated and can't be trusted.

Until their guarantee is worth more than a piece of used toilet roll I won't be using them again. Ever.
 
cmwade77 said:
I agree that PayPal is no good....really, I don't think there are many companies worse than them.

That being said, automatically renewing subscriptions are evil and you deserve what you got as far as the subscriptions go for selling them.
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I have never not refunded anyone who within a reasonable amount of time emailed and asked to be refunded. That's perfectly ok in my book. It's the people who file a claim with PayPal stating their card was stolen or used in an unauthorized transaction.

My average subscription is just about $9.95/year. All these people had to do was contact me, but because PayPal makes it so easy, they just file a claim. I only have about 500 customers for this site, and any issue can be resolved with a support ticket.

I send out 30 day and 7 day renewal emails, I have free trials, etc. I do everything I can so people know they are getting billed. Thankfully after moving to stripe, I have many more options and can use the stripe API to do even more to keep customers alert that an upcoming charge is at hand.
 
cmwade77 said:
As for your story about the MacBook Pro.....this is exactly why I say they are no good. I would even go so far as to say they are plain evil. The worse part about this is that the other person probably never saw the money in their account. PayPal used it as an excuse to hold the money in their accounts and make interest off of it. Now, granted the amount of money that this amounts to for just your transaction is minuscule; however, if you figure there could be a million disputes at any given time, this adds up very quickly.
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I'll briefly summarize. Sold a 2012 unibody MBP for like $1,300.00. Guy pays. Fine. I ship with insurance, signature confirmation and delivery confirmation. I mean the whole nine. Guys emails me saying the computer was a mess, dirty, filthy. Mind you, the thing was immaculate, I sold it after only several months to get my rMBP.

So he then files a claim. Without even really hearing my side, PayPal sides with him, and tells him to send it back. At this point, PayPal takes what money I had in my PayPal account and freezes it, then reduces my PP balance even further to meet the computer total. So right now I have no computer, have a PayPal account balance of -$1k+ and I'm not feeling great.

So all the guy has to do is tell PayPal the tracking number when he ships it back. Now it's my turn to tell PayPal when I get the computer back. Well, I went to pick up the computer at the PO as I wasn't home, and the girl brings me a large envelope, with the tracking number the guy gave to PayPal/eBay as the return. The thing weighed about 3 ounces.

So I call PayPal and tell them I was just defrauded and received an envelope with nothing in it from "John Smith" and that I want to escalate this claim as fraud. You'll never guess what they do next... since I did get the package the guy sent back, they sent him his money back, then they initiated my claim. Did you read that? I just told them I got an empty envelope back, and rather than thinking fraud, they paid him back, and then dealt with my claim. Brilliant.

So I had to get a police report, fax information, go to the PO, it was a nightmare. The police almost laughed me out of the station, until I went back and spoke to a very nice officer who pointed me to online forms for the PD.

This went on for the better part of the summer, I kid you not, as it took a while to finally get the police report. Even after that, they were still "working" on it, until I sent a letter to their corporate headquarters and their resident agent for my state, I then got a phone call. Within 72 hours, they put the money back into my PayPal account, and at least gave me back all PayPal receiving fees.

So in the end, the guy ended up with my computer, his money back, and PayPal paid me back the money he took back. Theres a business model.
 
Dear Apple,

Please don't use Paypal. They're awful. Buy a startup or use American Express' "Serve" brand instead. Please, not Paypal.
 
Rogifan said:
I'd love that. Is Jack Dorsey interested in selling?
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Anyone will sell anything. For the right price.

That said, I don't see why Apple needs to buy anything. They already have 700 million iTunes accounts with credit card info. They have TouchID. The hardest part of starting up a payment service is getting enough users that vendors are interested in using it. Apple already has the user base. FAR more so than PayPal and Square combined.

The only things left are developing an interface, and getting major vendors on board. Granted it's not THAT simple, but buying a company doesn't do anything for them. They are also probably waiting to get iBeacon into widespread usage first (MLB season opener puts iBeacon into its first widespread public use). That paves the way for mobile payments to be used without users having to learn how to do anything new.
 
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StyxMaker said:
I really think it's time for people to stop pretending they know what Steve Jobs would or wouldn't have done and what would or wouldn't have made him happy or angry.
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Except in this case, I think they're right on.

Steve Jobs has always been about the user's experience. Always. If he had entered the payment industry he seems to me to be the type of person that would recognize both sides of the transaction - seller and buyer - are his customers.

Paypal doesn't.
 
I would welcome this....

Dunno what kind of system Paypal has elsewhere to make it soo dang terrible, but I have been a long standing paypal user for 14+ month, and never had any issues...

If Apple could do this, then go for it...... Of course, i won't use it, but that's beside the point :)

I admit Paypal favors the customer, more than the seller. But that's how the cookie crumbles...

Its a bit one sided, but i've always gotten my money back from Paypal when buying stuff, and i would have to admit some of the stuff i reported wasan't even true. :) It was "just because" i wanted to..
 
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