Penn State fires President and Joe Paterno

[yg17]

It doesn't matter. His job is to coach the football team. He brought the issue to the proper people. They didn't do **** about it. That's not his problem, as it has nothing to do with winning football games.

His job, and anyone's job, is to report crimes to law enforcement. Failure to do so makes you an accessory to that crime.

If the guy is stealing office supplies, you report that to the higher ups. If he's raping little boys, you report that to the cops.

 

[Aragornii]

It doesn't matter. His job is to coach the football team. He brought the issue to the proper people. They didn't do **** about it. That's not his problem, as it has nothing to do with winning football games.

After Paterno found out about the rape he summoned the AD to his home on a Sunday to talk about it. If that doesn't tell you who's in charge and who's the subordinate in that relationship, nothing will. That and the fact that Paterno is Penn State's highest paid employee.

 

[madmaxmedia]

He's not the one in charge. The athletic director and college president are above him. He told them. After that it's on them, it's not his job to do everything. If it was, he would be the president and they wouldn't have an AD. I agree with firing the president, but outing Paterno is ********.

No, it matters. Head coaches like Paterno have more power at their universities than their presidents. It's why the Ohio State president, when asked about whether he was going to fire former head coach Jim Tressel over NCAA violations, (half) joked "I hope he doesn't fire me."

There is a ton of money at stake, and its the head coaches that bring the money in. I'm not saying that is a bad thing, but you follow the money trail to see who has the most influence.

Paterno quite possibly (or probably) knew about a former incident involving Sandusky (considering Paterno is his direct superior and campus police were involved), yet then behaved in that manner when the assistant coach told him about another incident, involving a 59 year old man, a 10 year old boy, and inappropriate behavior in the shower?

Okay, he did what he was supposed to and report to his superior. Fine. But then to see this molester continue unpunished running his children's charity, using university grounds to ruin further childrens' lives? And do nothing, not follow up? There's no excuse. Paterno turning the other way on this horrendous act(s), basically sets the tone for the entire university. He knew this.

What if it was Paterno's grandchild in the shower being molested that night? Would Paterno still have let it sit as is? No way.

----------

His job, and anyone's job, is to report crimes to law enforcement. Failure to do so makes you an accessory to that crime.

If the guy is stealing office supplies, you report that to the higher ups. If he's raping little boys, you report that to the cops.

His legal obligation was actually to report to his superior, which he did. But to wash your hands after that, even when Sandusky was allowed to continue, is like Kenneth Lay pleading total ignorance of Enron's fraud. (I'm not comparing the actual crimes mind you, just comparing how pathetic the excuses are.)

 

[chrono1081]

I agree everyone who knew about it should have been fired.

-Did Sandusky commit a crime? Yes, he needs to be in jail.

-Did McQueary allow a crime to happen by calling his dad instead of cops (or getting Sandusky away from the child). Yes, but I know you can't press criminal charges on that.

-Did McQueary's dad contribute by telling McQueary to call JoePa instead of police? You bet! What a stupid mistake.

-Did JoePa let the crime get covered up (unwillingly) by only contacting campus police instead of the real police? Sure did! (I know campus police count as real police, I went to Penn State but thats no excuse not to call real police. Campus police don't deal with rape and murders and other horrible crimes on a daily basis).

-Does Curley and Shultz deserve to be fired for lying under oath and covering up a scandal? Yep!

The only ones I think should be charged with a crime are Sandusky, Curley, and Shultz, but everyone involved needed fired. Take away the name JoePa and the link to football and Penn State and I bet everyone would agree that all parties involved need to go.

I couldn't IMAGINE hearing some child was raped in a place I was in charge of and not doing everything in my power to bring the person responsible to justice. The coverup was done to protect one of Penn States major cash cows (football) at the expense of young children and its sad. Yet another reason I hate sports, it blinds people.

 

[madmaxmedia]

Pretty sure Paterno didn't tell campus police, he only told the AD.

If he had told campus police, I think they would have known to contact real police as soon as the assistant told them what he saw with his own eyes.

 

[chrono1081]

Pretty sure Paterno didn't tell campus police, he only told the AD.

If he had told campus police, I think they would have known to contact real police as soon as the assistant told them what he saw with his own eyes.

You know what, I think you are right on this. I was wrong. My bad

 

[HarryKeogh]

One of the sadder parts of the story is that a 28-year-old man built like a moose witnessed this and didn't run over to stop an old man anally raping a ten-year-old.

Who sees that and goes the other direction?

Nope, he had to look out for the ol' boys' club and Penn State over a child's life.

Why that guy still has a job is beyond me.

 

[PatrickCocoa]

Slightly off topic

If you remove the football and the name "JoePa" out of the equation then I think people would see straight and start to realize a serious crime was committed with an unknown number of victims and that the person committing the crime, and those who hid it all have a large guilt to share.

I disagree with you very strongly on this "if you remove football" hypothosis. The cover up of these sickening and disgusting acts is a function of a group of people self-identifying as a tribe or social unit. The social unit exists to protect itself.

This would have happened, and certainly is happening, in other self-identified social units. The most obvious recent example is the Catholic church in America. But this is certainly happening in other churches, in groups of college professors, in corporations, in political protest movements, and many other areas of life. That is, the proportion of football coaches who are pedophiles is exactly the same as the proportion of CEOs who are pedophiles is exactly the same as the proportion of OWS protesters who are pedophiles.

If this was not related to football, you would still see the same denial / minimization / deflection reactions as you're seeing with the Penn State students.

 

[rdowns]

If this was not related to football, you would still see the same denial / minimization / deflection reactions as you're seeing with the Penn State students.

If this was an English professor raping boys, you really think the students would have protested/rioted?

 

[chrono1081]

If this was an English professor raping boys, you really think the students would have protested/rioted?

This.

People are seriously blinded here over their love of football and JoePa. I've lost friends over this whole situation because I said that JoePa needed to go too and have had other friends scream at me on the phone for standing by my opinion on the matter.

People in central PA are fanatic about Penn State and JoePa for no reason. Not one person I know knows the guy in real life but you'd swear a relative died after this whole thing.

Not to mention in State College there were riots because JoePa lost his job. (No riots because of coverups mind you, only riots because JoePa was fired).

 

[iJohnHenry]

If this was an English professor raping boys, you really think the students would have protested/rioted?

If this cash cow called 'football' takes a crap, the poor students will have to fork-up more tuition $$$ in the future.

 

[jca24]

Every one of these bastards needs too be in jail.

 

[184550]

He's not the one in charge. The athletic director and college president are above him. He told them. After that it's on them, it's not his job to do everything. If it was, he would be the president and they wouldn't have an AD. I agree with firing the president, but outing Paterno is ********.

It doesn't matter. His job is to coach the football team. He brought the issue to the proper people. They didn't do **** about it. That's not his problem, as it has nothing to do with winning football games.

One of the sadder parts of the story is that a 28-year-old man built like a moose witnessed this and didn't run over to stop an old man anally raping a ten-year-old.

Who sees that and goes the other direction?

Nope, he had to look out for the ol' boys' club and Penn State over a child's life.

Why that guy still has a job is beyond me.

Thank you. My feelings exactly.

His job? He knew of one of his employees was RAPING little boys. His job was to be a human being and do everything in his power to make sure it stopped and the rapist arrested.

Knew? Knew? He didn't know anything. He heard second-hand from the then Graduate Assistant. He reported to his superior(s).

If anything, all the blame should rest solely on the Graduate Assistant who actually witnessed the assault yet chose not to report it to the proper authorities.

 

[madmaxmedia]

Thank you. My feelings exactly.

Knew? Knew? He didn't know anything. He heard second-hand from the then Graduate Assistant. He reported to his superior(s).

If anything, all the blame should rest solely on the Graduate Assistant who actually witnessed the assault yet chose not to report it to the proper authorities.

This guy is not just some assistant, he is/was one of Paterno's top assistants and his former starting QB. Paterno did not technically 'know' what Sandusky did, but he should've carefully gotten a full account himself from the assistant, grilled him on it if necessary, then made a decision based on that.

If the graduate assistant is to be blamed, then why not Paterno for not immediately setting him straight, and telling him "We're not passing Go, we're going straight to the police station right now"?

If the assistant doesn't get a pass (which I agree with you on), then why does Paterno? At each level it arguably gets worse. The graduate assistant might have been afraid of upsetting Paterno, upsetting the program, fearing for his position, whatever (not justifying, but just exploring his action.) Paterno has no such fear, he is the pretty much the top dog at Penn State and could have stopped Sandusky, prevented a major cover-up scandal, and saved himself and the program by acting.

I get that Paterno did what he was legally supposed to do (though perhaps so did the assistant in reporting to Paterno?) But does Paterno get a pass for never following up on it in the ensuing years when Sandusky was continuing to molest children under the auspices of his charity program, and still using Penn State facilities as of about a week ago?

All of this is made much worse by the fact that Sandusky was accused of this previously, was investigated by campus police. While its possible that Paterno, his direct supervisor, was never made aware of this, I doubt it. This was not some sort of isolated event.

I blame them both, for different reasons. Well, I blame Sandusky of course most of all. But the assistant and Paterno (and a bunch of others) are all responsible for sweeping it under the rug and going along with a cover up to protect the school and it's football program, and allowing a child molester to continue targeting children.

 

[184550]

This guy is not just some assistant, he is/was one of Paterno's top assistants and his former starting QB. Paterno did not technically 'know' what Sandusky did, but he should've carefully gotten a full account himself from the assistant, grilled him on it if necessary, then made a decision based on that.

At the time, in 2002 when the act was witnessed, that's exactly what he was; 'just some assistant'.

If the graduate assistant is to be blamed, then why not Paterno for not immediately setting him straight, and telling him "We're not passing Go, we're going straight to the police station right now"?

Paterno should have acted on secondary information?

If the assistant doesn't get a pass (which I agree with you on), then why does Paterno?

Because he did not witness the act first hand. As I said above, all the information he received was secondary.

At each level it arguably gets worse. The graduate assistant might have been afraid of upsetting Paterno, upsetting the program, fearing for his position, whatever (not justifying, but just exploring his action.) Paterno has no such fear, he is the pretty much the top dog at Penn State and could have stopped Sandusky, prevented a major cover-up scandal, and saved himself and the program by acting.

I get that Paterno did what he was legally supposed to do (though perhaps so did the assistant in reporting to Paterno?) But does Paterno get a pass for never following up on it in the ensuing years when Sandusky was continuing to molest children under the auspices of his charity program, and still using Penn State facilities as of about a week ago?

All of this is made much worse by the fact that Sandusky was accused of this previously, was investigated by campus police. While its possible that Paterno, his direct supervisor, was never made aware of this, I doubt it. This was not some sort of isolated event.

I blame them both, for different reasons. Well, I blame Sandusky of course most of all. But the assistant and Paterno (and a bunch of others) are all responsible for sweeping it under the rug and going along with a cover up to protect the school and it's football program, and allowing a child molester to continue targeting children.

 

[jca24]

They will all go down.

 

[Huntn]

I have not scanned this entire thread, but my understanding is that the problem with the assistant coach (who was a student/assistant when this first became an issue) is that when he stumbled across this situation in the shower room between a man and a boy, he should have done more than report it. He should have intervened. Apparently the bureaucracy was more worried about the Penn State Football program than a 10 year old. Then I heard some lawyer who was going to investigate, disappeared, as in gone, completely gone? Holy ****.

 

[MacNut]

At the time, in 2002 when the act was witnessed, that's exactly what he was; 'just some assistant'.



Paterno should have acted on secondary information?



Because he did not witness the act first hand. As I said above, all the information he received was secondary.

So every time the police get called to a crime because they get "secondary" information and never witnessed it first hand they should do nothing?

Paterno did nothing because he didn't want to destroy his football program or Penn State.

By your logic we should never do anything unless we witness it ourselves.

"Sorry kid but just because I didn't see you get brutally raped I can't help you"

 

[rocknblogger]

One of the sadder parts of the story is that a 28-year-old man built like a moose witnessed this and didn't run over to stop an old man anally raping a ten-year-old.

Who sees that and goes the other direction?

Nope, he had to look out for the ol' boys' club and Penn State over a child's life.

Why that guy still has a job is beyond me.

First let me say that everyone involved made horrible decisions and should be held accountable the crimes are disgusting.

I however disagree on your take about a 28 year old man built like a moose.

None of us can say with any certainty how we would have reacted. I imagine when Queary saw what he saw his brain and rational thinking shut down. This was not a stranger, he knew Sandusky since childhood. I would think that his mind could not process what it was that he saw and that's why he ran and called his father. I don't believe it had anything to do with covering anything up.

I was watching First Take today on ESPN. Jon Ritchie (an ESPN analyst) who also played football and who also knows Sandusky since the age of 13 said he would probably do the same thing.

The act that he witnessed is beyond anything a normal person would be able to rationally process in a few seconds. I'm sure that fear, intimidation (real or imagined), confusion and denial all played a roll in why he ran.

That said, it's what happened next that's troubling. His father should have called the police or at the very least the campus police. This is where the first mistake and bad decision occurs. From here going forward every single decision was the wrong one for the next 15 years.

I believe wholeheartedly that a lot more will be revealed in the coming weeks and months.

Those poor kids need help and justice and I hope they get both.

 

[Mac'nCheese]

That said, it's what happened next that's troubling. His father should have called the police or at the very least the campus police. This is where the first mistake and bad decision occurs. From here going forward every single decision was the wrong one for the next 15 years.
.

His father made the mistake? I think he did, as well. He was 28 years old. He knew right from wrong.

 

[MacNut]

His father made the mistake? I think he did, as well. He was 28 years old. He knew right from wrong.

Shell shock or not, he still have days after to report what he saw to the cops.

 

[madmaxmedia]

At the time, in 2002 when the act was witnessed, that's exactly what he was; 'just some assistant'.

He was Paterno's former QB, they had a relationship stronger than just some assistant. My point is that although secondary, Paterno knew the assistant well enough that he should have taken his account seriously.

Paterno should have acted on secondary information?

If you believe that the assistant is mostly at blame for not going straight to the police, then Paterno is also wronged the victim by not telling the assistant to go straight to the police.

But technically neither of them broke any laws in their actions. But I believe both are morally guilty, for different reasons.

Because he did not witness the act first hand. As I said above, all the information he received was secondary.

No, but had he bothered to even begin to investigate, he would have known this had happened before (if he did not already know), and should have questioned that Sandusky was allowed to run this charity for children and maintain an office at Penn State and be allowed to use its facilities.

If the same thing had happened to you, wouldn't you have some sort of gnawing doubt about whether letting things go would put further children at risk?

 

[rocknblogger]

His father made the mistake? I think he did, as well. He was 28 years old. He knew right from wrong.

I don't disagree but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for minutes or even a couple of hours after witnessing the event. His father should have understood that his son was in shock and couldn't make a rational decision.

Honestly Queary's actions are not abnormal. It's the classic fight or flight situation. A person is shocked, he/she will either fight or run. Neither is right or wrong it's how we as human beings are wired.

I'm a big guy myself, played football and boxed a bit in my teens. As a man, a jock, I would like to think I would have jumped in and saved the poor child but the truth of the matter is, until you're in that position you don't know how you'll react.

Again, I'm not excusing anything that happened in the hours and days following the incident. I'm only referring to the moment that Queary witnessed the rape.

 

[PatrickCocoa]

Fair question. You are right.

If this was an English professor raping boys, you really think the students would have protested/rioted?

Fair question. No, I do not think there would be riots if an English professor was fired for raping boys or covering up rapes. You are absolutely correct that football is different in that regard, as the number and intensity of people interested in football is much greater than those interested in English studies.

However, as per my original post, I do firmly believe that there would be the same level of denial, minimization, and deflection on the part of the (smaller) group that English professors are part of. There would be the exact same responses about "he did what he was required to do, report the incident", and "he's been a respected professor for 40 years", and "he's donated time and money to this institution", and "he didn't know about it", and "he was fired too soon/too late/at the wrong time of day/with not enough warning/with not enough respect", or "this is an attack by the Geology department so that they can get more money".

Again, this is not about football or English departments. This is about self-identifying groups of people. Think Michael Jackson fans. My point is that it applies to all groups, even the ones you're a part of. Even the ones that you're sure are different from all other groups, because you wouldn't join or remain in a group that would condone that.

My point is not that any particular ideology or political persuasion or religion is more or less prone to this problem (cover ups). My point is that all groups are exactly equally prone. If you believe that corporate CEOs would cover up something like this, you have to believe that Greenpeace would do the same.

 

[glocke12]

This.

People are seriously blinded here over their love of football and JoePa. I've lost friends over this whole situation because I said that JoePa needed to go too and have had other friends scream at me on the phone for standing by my opinion on the matter.

People in central PA are fanatic about Penn State and JoePa for no reason. Not one person I know knows the guy in real life but you'd swear a relative died after this whole thing.

Not to mention in State College there were riots because JoePa lost his job. (No riots because of coverups mind you, only riots because JoePa was fired).

I've had similar conversation with people that feel that Paterno is being "scapegoated"...

Complete B.S. Anyone who knew about this, especially after seeing that no criminal action was being taken against Sandusky after the AD was told about it needs to go.