I wouldn't call him 'just some assistant'. He was previously a star QB for Penn State and served as their recruiting coordinator. He had as much a vested interest in not seeing the football program hurt as Paterno.
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Penn State fires President and Joe Paterno
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I wouldn't call him 'just some assistant'. He was previously a star QB for Penn State and served as their recruiting coordinator. He had as much a vested interest in not seeing the football program hurt as Paterno.
This is an excellent view from a sociological perspective. Pedophilia exists in all classes, occupations, racial, and ethnic groups.
Perhaps a clear definition of pedophilia is in order: it refers to any inappropriate sexual behavior between an adult (usually defined as over 21, sometime a little younger) with a pre-adolescent individual. If I remember correctly, if the victim is post adolescent, say 15 or 16, it is (technically) considered child abuse, not pedophilia. This is not a comment on the current case - just provided for denotational purposes.
I agree. The whole issue of big time college football is a topic for it's own thread.
But a comment; I have felt for years that the hypocrisy and lying involved in big name college football is appalling. Secret payments to players, pimping off female students to prospective recruits, demanding faculty pass players who will lose eligibility if their grades are poor (something I witness while in grad school) - all create an environment of compromised ethics and rule breaking as an integral part of the sport culture.
I have felt that one way to reduce this culture of lying and deception was to chuck the "student athlete" myth entirely. The athletes (again, I'm talking about big time programs) would be paid employees of the university. Their job would be to play sports. and be paid for it - like any pro sports farm system. If they wished to take classes, they could do that as any university employee could. Usually, university employees can take classes, and matriculate, for greatly reduced, or free tuition. This eliminates the b**********t of the so-called student athlete.
If this cash cow called 'football' takes a crap, the poor students will have to fork-up more tuition $$$ in the future.
I'm sure that you are not suggesting that the probable increase in tuition that would result in losing income from the athletics programs would justify misbehavior on the part of the athletics programs. I've read enough of your posts, iJohn, to know that it was not your intent to suggest this. I write this out of fear that your post might be misinterpreted.
Please forgive me for presuming to speak for you.
Wait until they all start singing and turning on each other, cutting deals with the prosecutors. Ol Joe knew the deal. He is toast.
Dozens of people are going to end up being charged with one thing or another, included people in government.
The rioter are just drunks. Note there is a huge counter-demonstration being organized by those with brains. Penn should start expelling the pro-pedophiles morons immediately.
Dozens of people are going to end up being charged with one thing or another, included people in government.
The rioter are just drunks. Note there is a huge counter-demonstration being organized by those with brains. Penn should start expelling the pro-pedophiles morons immediately.
I don't believe he would have had to physically intervene, just a simple "what the hell are you doing?" would have most likely sufficed.
Of course, he might have been shocked and scared too, but as it was pointed out on Bill Mayer last night, if it is left up to the bureaucracy nine times out of ten the decision will be to cover up and that is what they teach those within the system. It can be a tough choice for whistle blowers who are scared of the blow back when they stand up against those in power. So it must be concluded this guy was weak and rationalized himself out of independently taking steps to correct the problem. Easy for me to say...
I am not impressed by students who before weighing the gravity of the situation, thought rioting on behalf of their beloved coach was the right thing to do.
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I will agree to that. Its easy to say I WOULD HAVE.... I still think there is something wrong with someone who walks away from a rape however, it is criminal if time passes, you've discussed it with someone and you still do nothing. I think we agree to that 100%.
I'm sure that you are not suggesting that the probable increase in tuition that would result in losing income from the athletics programs would justify misbehaviour on the part of the athletics programs. I've read enough of your posts, iJohn, to know that it was not your intent to suggest this. I write this out of fear that your post might be misinterpreted.
Please forgive me for presuming to speak for you.
Presume away, for I meant the misbehaviour of the students, and why they would ever riot over the school doing the right thing.
Future tuition costs was the first that came to mind, because it would be self-serving for them.
Being crazy for football was not in my mind, as we don't have 'higher education' sports frenzy anywhere near what you folks have.
Mirror, mirror, on the wall . . .
As an aside, and off topic from the original post, I will point out that Bill Mayer's statement also applies to Bill Mayer's show. Or any show.
There's a bureaucracy built up around any show - writers, producers, bookers, renting studio time, payroll, hiring and firing camera operators and gaffers, janitors, makeup artists, etc. If one of those workers sees someone close to Bill Mayer, or Bill Mayer himself, engaged in behavior that would threaten the show (and the potential notifier's job) if publicly revealed, we may see the same situation as occurred at Penn State.
As an aside, and off topic from the original post, I will point out that Bill Mayer's statement also applies to Bill Mayer's show. Or any show.
There's a bureaucracy built up around any show - writers, producers, bookers, renting studio time, payroll, hiring and firing camera operators and gaffers, janitors, makeup artists, etc. If one of those workers sees someone close to Bill Mayer, or Bill Mayer himself, engaged in behavior that would threaten the show (and the potential notifier's job) if publicly revealed, we may see the same situation as occurred at Penn State.
The bottom line is that it appears that a serious crime occurred there at the time. Nobody who saw or heard about the incident did enough to make sure that a proper investigation was conducted. And no one seems to have acted in a way that indicated they though the alleged criminal wouldn't do it again. That inaction may not be a crime for some of the people involved, but at the very least it looks very unethical and extremely creepy. You can't expect people to give a pass when it comes to child rape. Unless you're the Catholic Church, that is.
+1
The downside of ruling a little fiefdom that is the football program is that you share some of the blame when your subordinates do something wrong. It happens on your watch.
There's also the fact that this is a PR disaster for the university. How can someone think that the Penn State board of trustees would be OK with Paterno trotting out to coach the team against Nebraska? The broadcasters would not be able to avoid mentioning the scandal that's going on. Anything that looked like a farewell sendoff to Paterno would indicate that the university does not take the allegations seriously. Outside the State College area, the sentiment was overwhelmingly against Paterno coaching another game. At a time when indictments are being handed down and more people will get added to the investigation -- including former and current PSU employees -- the university can't afford to look like they're OK with it. Even if the board thought Paterno was completely innocent, they had to fire him.
Now Queary is saying that he did in fact stop the rape when he stumbled upon it. I don't know, the grand jury report is pretty detailed as to what he told them. I guess we won't know all the true details until the trials.
And did anyone see that Bob Costas interview last night? Did you catch how Sandusky stuttered and hesitated when asked if he was sexually attracted to young boys? He's a vile and disgusting human being (allegedly). I actually can't believe his lawyer let him do this and I don't think he did anything to help himself.
If/When he gets to prison he'll get what's coming to him. Over and over and over again. Our justice system may sometimes seem like its broken but the prison justice system is alive and well.
And did anyone see that Bob Costas interview last night? Did you catch how Sandusky stuttered and hesitated when asked if he was sexually attracted to young boys? He's a vile and disgusting human being (allegedly). I actually can't believe his lawyer let him do this and I don't think he did anything to help himself.
If/When he gets to prison he'll get what's coming to him. Over and over and over again. Our justice system may sometimes seem like its broken but the prison justice system is alive and well.
I heard some of the replays on the radio of the interview this morning
After listening, I don't know how anyone could not be convinced he is guilty as sin
After listening, I don't know how anyone could not be convinced he is guilty as sin
1. I heard a good comment on the radio regarding him taking 17 seconds to answer the question about if he was sexually attracted to young boys-
"If I ask my kid if he stole a cookie, and he takes 17 seconds to tell me no- I know he stole a cookie."
2. If you are questioned or accused of such criminal behavior but are actually innocent, if you have half a brain you would know not to ever do anything remotely resembling the charges ever again, for the sake of all involved (including yourself.) Instead this guy continues to take showers with boys, having boys sleep over, and other such activities???
Wouldn't it be nice, just this once, if this stain upon humanity would man up and admit his crimes, thereby providing his victims some privacy as well as a sense of closure and vindication? Alas, I'm sure that what we'll get instead is a vigorous defense with the best legal help money can buy. His victims will be dragged through the agony of a public trial in which every aspect of their personal lives will be dissected, all so that he can try to convince a jury against all odds that he was "just horsin' around."
It's Everywhere, Even the English Department
One of the subtopics of this thread was how the protect-the-image, circle-the-wagons response is not limited to any particular group, but exists in ANY group. A few commentators used "an English professor" as an example of a member of a group that would react differently.
Well.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/victim-pen...sity-professor/story?id=14960575#.TsQMn1Z80oF
Again, I understand that there will be no student rioting when/if this professor is fired (if he's actually still working). I agree that the reaction after the firing by people will be different for English professors than football coaches. But my point is that during the period when the abuse is happening, all groups will rally 'round the flag.
For example, I saw an entry on digg that Jon Stewart has made some comments on Sandusky. I haven't seen that show so I don't know what he said. But it's certainly possible that if someone on that show was engaged in criminal activity or abuse, that other people involved in that show would not call the police.
One of the subtopics of this thread was how the protect-the-image, circle-the-wagons response is not limited to any particular group, but exists in ANY group. A few commentators used "an English professor" as an example of a member of a group that would react differently.
Well.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/victim-pen...sity-professor/story?id=14960575#.TsQMn1Z80oF
Again, I understand that there will be no student rioting when/if this professor is fired (if he's actually still working). I agree that the reaction after the firing by people will be different for English professors than football coaches. But my point is that during the period when the abuse is happening, all groups will rally 'round the flag.
For example, I saw an entry on digg that Jon Stewart has made some comments on Sandusky. I haven't seen that show so I don't know what he said. But it's certainly possible that if someone on that show was engaged in criminal activity or abuse, that other people involved in that show would not call the police.
For most pedophiles, these urges are a compulsion. Almost all of them are aware of what society's standards about such things are and go out of their way to keep their activities secret. But it's a compulsion nonetheless, so they DO keep doing it, even when they know the risks of getting caught. What sounds rational to us on this matter does not apply to them.
And when I say it's a "compulsion", please don't think I'm absolving of these people of blame. The fact that they're aware it's a crime and do it anyway proves that most of them aren't clinically insane.
Oh yeah, I definitely agree. My point was that if he was truly not a pedophile, then there's no way a rational man continues these sorts of activities even if he's not actually molesting them.
Right. I suppose it's possible that Sandusky's pause was him trying to answer in a way that didn't sound suspicious. But I think that someone who had been wrongfully accused would immediately blurt out that he would never do something like that. It seems unlikely that an innocent person would have to think about how to answer that one.
The nation's 10-year old boys clear it all up pretty well (this is from the Onion, but you probably already knew after reading the headline)-
Nation's 10-Year-Old Boys: 'If You See Someone Raping Us, Please Call The Police'
Nation's 10-Year-Old Boys: 'If You See Someone Raping Us, Please Call The Police'
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Protect the Tribe!
Another protect-the-tribe reaction was shown last week when more old emails were leaked from the University of East Anglica Climate Research Unit (CRU).
Completely separate from the science of climate change, and the method by which the emails were acquired, and the motives behind the leakers, it's obvious that the scientists at the CRU decided that the greater good required any issues that could be perceived as mistakes on their part needed to be suppressed.
This doesn't make their conclusions wrong, it's just an example of how humans relate to one another.
Another protect-the-tribe reaction was shown last week when more old emails were leaked from the University of East Anglica Climate Research Unit (CRU).
Completely separate from the science of climate change, and the method by which the emails were acquired, and the motives behind the leakers, it's obvious that the scientists at the CRU decided that the greater good required any issues that could be perceived as mistakes on their part needed to be suppressed.
This doesn't make their conclusions wrong, it's just an example of how humans relate to one another.
Sandusky charged with 14 more counts and didn't make bail.
http://espn.go.com/college-football...jerry-sandusky-arrested-new-sex-abuse-charges