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Performance reduced after EFI update on MacBook Pro Retina

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Queen6 said:
Hardware is a lot more likely than software to me, or Apple would have issued a "fix" by now, unless the number of affected systems is very low. I think getting case numbers and going back to Apple is the way ahead for many of you. I would just show them the obvious slowdown (in OSX) and ask them what are they going to do about it, likely same as some the Logic Board will be replaced.

Why hardware related, my own 2.3 Mid 2012 Base has no such issue as do many, yet all Retina`s from this period have the same firmware. If the issue was directly related to code an awful lot more machines would be affected and there would be an equally increased amount traffic across the web.

I would go as far to say if Apple don't "side load" something into 10.8.3 I personally wouldn't be holding out for a patch/fix other than face to face with Apple to get resolution.
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I'm considering taking it in more and more. One question though. I never noticed performance reduction under OSX. Under Windows (playing games), I noticed it and was insane about it over some time until I read that I should reset the SMC. Since I did that, resetting the SMC solves the issue for me until it comes back. But I'll want to show them the reduction in performance under OSX of course. But how? Any idea of how to do something that will show FOR SURE that there is a performance reduction?

Thanks
 
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dastinger said:
I'm considering taking it in more and more. One question though. I never noticed performance reduction under OSX. Under Windows (playing games), I noticed it and was insane about it over some time until I read that I should reset the SMC. Since I did that, resetting the SMC solves the issue for me until it comes back. But I'll want to show them the reduction in performance under OSX of course. But how? Any idea of how to do something that will show FOR SURE that there is a performance reduction?

Thanks
Click to expand...

I would just show them the gaming performance, once the bug has kicked in and down-clocked the GPU, if they talk about SMC reset`s etc show them this post and the one on Apple forums and ask them if they consider this to be normal behaviour for a premium product. As far as I know Apple hardware is supposed to run Windows without issue. Any nonsense ask to speak with a manager, stay cool and polite at all times. You could even point out that others have a had a Logic Board replacement due to the same issue, however it will very much help if you can quote case numbers.
 
Queen6 said:
I would just show them the gaming performance, once the bug has kicked in and down-clocked the GPU, if they talk about SMC reset`s etc show them this post and the one on Apple forums and ask them if they consider this to be normal behaviour for a premium product. As far as I know Apple hardware is supposed to run Windows without issue. Any nonsense ask to speak with a manager, stay cool and polite at all times. You could even point out that others have a had a Logic Board replacement due to the same issue, however it will very much help if you can quote case numbers.
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So, I just go and show them a game running under Windows with reduced performance? Because that would be easy for sure. It happens all the time. I got to a point where I reset the SMC every time I want to play a game under Windows. Why go through the trouble of booting up, see that the game is throttling, shutting down and booting up again? It's awful.

I don't have any demanding games for OSX, otherwise, I'd try those. No other specific way?

I'll do that. Thanks a lot for your help.

Any more help would be appreciated. If I can get to show them the issues under OSX would be better. Just so they can't tell me the issue might be Windows. Plus, I am running Windows 8 (which is still unsupported). But, under Windows 7 the same happened.. but that's something I cannot prove.
 
dastinger said:
So, I just go and show them a game running under Windows with reduced performance? Because that would be easy for sure. It happens all the time. I got to a point where I reset the SMC every time I want to play a game under Windows. Why go through the trouble of booting up, see that the game is throttling, shutting down and booting up again? It's awful.

I don't have any demanding games for OSX, otherwise, I'd try those. No other specific way?

I'll do that. Thanks a lot for your help.

Any more help would be appreciated. If I can get to show them the issues under OSX would be better. Just so they can't tell me the issue might be Windows. Plus, I am running Windows 8 (which is still unsupported). But, under Windows 7 the same happened.. but that's something I cannot prove.
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The closer to stock your system is the better in the eye`s of Apple, so to that end I would find a game that will push the system under OS X, equally I would trigger the SMC bug in windows first ;)

Try triggering the SMC bug in Windows then try a video transcode with "Handbrake" in OS X it`s free and will load the CPU fully. I rather fear that going to Apple with a solely Window`s related issue wont get an entirely positive result.
 
I don't run windows on my MB, and all was well for the first couple of weeks playing a lot of kerbel space program and some Starcraft 2 in OSX. Wasn't until I tried to run Diablo 3 that I noticed performance issues.

If 10.8.3 and/or an EFI update doesn't fix this I'm taking mine in for repair.
 
Queen6 said:
The closer to stock your system is the better in the eye`s of Apple, so to that end I would find a game that will push the system under OS X, equally I would trigger the SMC bug in windows first ;)

Try triggering the SMC bug in Windows then try a video transcode with "Handbrake" in OS X it`s free and will load the CPU fully. I rather fear that going to Apple with a solely Window`s related issue wont get an entirely positive result.
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Exactly my point :)

I'll spend an evening over this to try and find a way to prove to them that something is wrong and then I'll take it in for repair.

Thanks once again ;)
 
Queen6 said:
Hardware is a lot more likely than software to me, or Apple would have issued a "fix" by now, unless the number of affected systems is very low.
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It is defiantly software (as in EFI). The bug wasn't there in the release EFI. In my experience and experiments what I have found (at least for some instances of the bug there may be more) is that after an SMC reset the thermal/power limits for the CPU/GPU are set to nominal. When a thermal/power limit is exceeded, a throttle event then occurs. This is ok and working as intended. The problem however is that when this happens the EFI then LOWERS the trigger thermal/power limit (and quite aggressively) for the next event often to the point where throttling occurs well within the normal operating envelope.

So the EFI has the ability to dynamically change the throttle limit (and there may be other instances where it gets lowered). Until a SMC reset it doesn't seem to increase it again.

L
 
Interesting. Is there anyone with a 15" 2013 rMBP that reported SMC issues just like the ones mid 2012 rMBPs have?
 
Laryngoscope said:
It is defiantly software (as in EFI). The bug wasn't there in the release EFI. In my experience and experiments what I have found (at least for some instances of the bug there may be more) is that after an SMC reset the thermal/power limits for the CPU/GPU are set to nominal. When a thermal/power limit is exceeded, a throttle event then occurs. This is ok and working as intended. The problem however is that when this happens the EFI then LOWERS the trigger thermal/power limit (and quite aggressively) for the next event often to the point where throttling occurs well within the normal operating envelope.

So the EFI has the ability to dynamically change the throttle limit (and there may be other instances where it gets lowered). Until a SMC reset it doesn't seem to increase it again.

L
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If it`s solely software why no update, it`s not as if it`s in Apple`s best interest, and it would be a relatively quick fix. If solely software why are only certain systems affected, I have deliberately tried with my own Retina and it does not throttle, and we are seeing initial reports of a change in Logic Board remedying the issue.

I have no doubt there is a relationship with software, yet it does not effect all systems, which to me lends to believe it`s a deeper underlying issue, and why Apple are reluctant to issue a patch as it may do more harm than good. We all know that Apple tend to take their own good time to get round to fix things, however this one has been ongoing for a long time and the Retina is a premium product.

As i say the more that take this issue directly to Apple the greater the chance of a fix be it hardware and or software, i know what i would do if it was impacting my systems.
 
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So, what do most people think? Software or hardware? I'm really on the fence here.. I don't want to risk being without the MBP for 15 to 20 days (up to a month actually) for nothing :confused:
 
Even if it's a hardware-initiated problem, it occured after the EFI-Update. So there exists away to revert this bug by some means.
It would be cheaper for Apple to hunt for this bug and patch the EFI instead of exchanging logic boards...
 
So, I called Apple Support and been talking with the guy for some time. He was really cool about this and said that he was aware of this issue and that I wasn't the first calling about this. He couldn't give me an answer about what was exactly causing it because they never heard a word about this from the engineering team. He said that, maybe, the EFI update is coming along with the 10.8.3 update but he can't know for sure (btw, this didn't seem like a hint but only his opinion). I also made sure he knew how mad I was about this situation given that I (we) just paid €2.5k for a product that doesn't perform as advertised because Apple did something wrong and, until now, didn't say a word about this. I will also send an email (already written) to every address I can find expressing how I feel and how they should pay more attention to top tier products' customers. I'll update you if I get a reply.

I searched for the EFI update on the Portuguese Apple website and found the changelog (can't access it on Apple.com) and the main issue they wanted to fix was the freezing of some machines after they reached certain temperatures. Now, what some users here said makes total sense. They reduced the maximum temperature the CPU could reach before throttling in order to solve this but ****ed up on the way.

The tech support guy told me to call an authorized support store near me that are actually good regarding hardware and talk to them about this problem in order to know more about it/get their opinion. I called and the guy who answered said that he was aware of this issue but couldn't help me right now because the store closed at 7PM. He told me to call tomorrow and someone will gladly help me.

After I talk to them tomorrow, I'll give you an update.
 
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hey guys seems that i got the bug back now so what they did at the apple service center here didnt work..
 
Visnus said:
hey guys seems that i got the bug back now so what they did at the apple service center here didnt work..
Click to expand...

Well, at least that confirms that it's a software bug. I guess you can be glad that a fix may be possible, if only Apple would pay attention.
 
bill-p said:
Well, at least that confirms that it's a software bug. I guess you can be glad that a fix may be possible, if only Apple would pay attention.
Click to expand...

Yeah, i will restrain my self from reseting Smc and go talk with them tomorrow and se what they say. it's so weird that my computer worked for about a month now with no problem. And for a computer for 4100dollar (the swedish price tag for the mid version 16bg ram) this shoulder even be a possibility.

ill check back here tomorrow after i've spoken with them.
 
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@ dastinger it`s great that you are getting in to dialogue with Apple and they are working with you. Let`s see what your local approved dealer comes up with, frequently i find that the independent shops are more knowledgeable when it comes to hands on.

I still have yet to see the problem on my 2.3, admittedly i don't use windows, equally if it was solely related to CPU/GPU temperate it would have well and truly triggered by now. I don't game a lot, however recently i started playing Witcher 2 and this is renowned for being a GPU killer, even on high setting temps`s are reasonable and performance is ok, no slow downs.
 
Queen6 said:
@ dastinger it`s great that you are getting in to dialogue with Apple and they are working with you. Let`s see what your local approved dealer comes up with, frequently i find that the independent shops are more knowledgeable when it comes to hands on.

I still have yet to see the problem on my 2.3, admittedly i don't use windows, equally if it was solely related to CPU/GPU temperate it would have well and truly triggered by now. I don't game a lot, however recently i started playing Witcher 2 and this is renowned for being a GPU killer, even on high setting temps`s are reasonable and performance is ok, no slow downs.
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Yeh, let's see what they have to say. I felt relieved when the guy at Apple Support told me he was aware of this. At least they now acknowledge this.

If the temps are not getting high enough, then you won't feel throttling. I bet that, when you try Windows under Boot Camp and play something like the latest Tomb Raider, you'll notice it.

Ironically, now that I want to reproduce the issue, I can't. I've been playing for 2 days without resetting the SMC and I'm getting the expected performance lol. This is like when you're looking for something that you really need and only find it once you don't need it anymore.
 
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A few weeks back on the apple discussion boards, someone said that 10.8.3 fixed the issue. I'm hoping its true. I reset the SMC before playing WoW just in case its going to be a problem.
 
I doubt 10.8.3 fixes it because it's probably a firmware issue. If it was the OS, it wouldn't happen running Windows.
 
Visnus said:
hey guys seems that i got the bug back now so what they did at the apple service center here didnt work..
Click to expand...

bill-p said:
Well, at least that confirms that it's a software bug. I guess you can be glad that a fix may be possible, if only Apple would pay attention.
Click to expand...

Visnus said:
Yeah, i will restrain my self from reseting Smc and go talk with them tomorrow and se what they say. it's so weird that my computer worked for about a month now with no problem. And for a computer for 4100dollar (the swedish price tag for the mid version 16bg ram) this shoulder even be a possibility.

ill check back here tomorrow after i've spoken with them.
Click to expand...

This is really bad news, as it was looking good that a hardware fix was the solution, if it`s back to software it still makes no sense why Apple have not released a firmware update. My own 2.3 Retina has pretty much spent the entire evening with both CPU/GPU temps above 80C with no adverse effects, and i can push it to the max without issue.

It might be worth document the spec of the machines and see if this narrows it down any:

2.3 Base Retina Mid 2012, 8Gb, 256GB SSD (Samsung) no bug as yet OS X only
 
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