Phil Schiller and Craig Federighi Talk iMessage, Siri API and Mac App Store on 'The Talk Show'

[rhett7660]

So much hatred and negativity here. What did you all expect from WWDC? An Apple Flying Saucer that syncs with a 5D iPhone that can read your mind?

iOS 10 is by far the biggest update in years. Apple is in a difficult situation here: all information and functionality in iOS is locked up in apps. In essence, iOS is still nothing more than row after row of icons. So they have to open it up or they fall even more behind. And that's what they did. Opening up Siri, Maps and Messages for developers is a huge deal. It will hopefully change the way we use our iDevices. But now we have to wait to see what the developers come up with.

And yes, I'm very happy the butt ugly notification and control centers are getting a new look. They are appalling right now.

It's more obvious that they are struggling with macOS and tvOS. macOS is mature and they have no clue on improving it anymore and that's a shame. And tvOS keeps on being an uninspiring little box you only buy if you're a huge Apple fan only to realise it's virtually useless.

But by far the biggest issue I have with Apple is that they seem to lack the resources or drive to make their services and features available outside the US. Over here (Belgium, Europe) we still don't have any use for Passbook or Wallet, Apple Pay will never ever arrive, Siri on tvOS is non functional, Nearby in Maps or Predictive Typing don't exist, and so on... At least with Google, I don't feel like a second grade customer.

I wonder if this has to do more with the countries as opposed to Apple. Other companies such as Amazon have issues with rolling out their services to other countries also. I am wondering if there is a lot of red tape or regulations that they have been working on, or have decided it isn't worth the energy given the return on investment.

 

[name99]

New Apple vision: lowest common denominator pandering

People spend a year telling Apple they only thing they want from the next version of OSX is bug fixes.
Then when Apple gives them a release that is 90% bug fixes (and so there is little to talk about except "fluff") they complain like it's the end of the world.

God people suck.

 

[Speedy2]

You are joking right? For iMessage to pick up? It's already massively successful.

Outside the US hardly anyone cares about iMessage. Everyone else uses Whatsapp or WeChat.

 

[Wowereit]

I said at the time I hope the rumors were untrue. iMessage is a flagship feature across Apple's platforms and they don't need to give it away to people who make the wrong choice by purchasing Windows PC's or Android smartphones. If you want to be part of the iMessage movement, you buy Apple products.

I'm glad Apple has the confidence to keep things like iMessage exclusively for its customers.

Enjoy your Apple gulag.
Being part of the iMessage movement? Great movement at 15% marketshare.
The future is cross platform applications.

 

[MarsViolet]

If you think iOS/phones are going to get displaced by cars, that's hilarious.

iPhone sales are already starting to drop off. If smart phones stop being a growth market Apple will milk the iPhone for all it's worth and get busy on the next great thing.

 

[American Hero]

Why would he resign?

Because he's a clown. A professional liar is another name for his position.
[doublepost=1466031349][/doublepost]

Pay him no mind. Another Arm-Chair CEO that can't manage his own finances much less a billion dollar company. The stupidity is palpable!

If you were smart, you'd know Schiller isn't the CEO.

I think you received the hint of what I'm trying to say here.

 

[Michael Goff]

Because he's a clown. A professional liar is another name for his position.

Any real, specific, reasons? Or just personal attacks?

 

[American Hero]

Any real, specific, reasons? Or just personal attacks?

He agrees with having 16 GB of base storage on the iPhone.

"Can't innovate anymore my ass." Um, it's a Mac Pro with a new design.

Between Cook and Schiller, they're both responsible for how Apple looks like major crooks compared to most companies. His job is to blow things out of proportion by making overpriced products sound better than they really are. Anyone who actually likes the guy has fanboy written all over them.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

I remember when Linus Torvalds wrote an expletave-laden article about HFS and HFS+ filesystems. Linus called it real terrible.

Several articles were written including a piece in CIO magazine titled
"Linus Torvalds: Apple's HFS+ is probably the worst file system ever"

In that article, which can be found online, Linus said "Ok, so NTFS did some of the same. But apple really took it to the next level with HFS+." He also said of the developers of HFS+ "Give them some paste, and let them sit in a corner eating it. " Strong words. Thankfully Apple has budget to fix it.

 

[CFreymarc]

This "talk" looked too staged.

 

[Osty]

Unfortunately, this is a hard truth. Joe and Jane could care less about whether their new iPhone is using an A8 or A9, or whether their new MacBook has Skylake when Broadwell and Haswell run perfectly fine.

Too true. If we're honest, Sandy Bridge reached the point where it was good enough for everything an average user throws at it. That's why Intel is struggling to shift silicon; computers reached the point where they are good enough 5 years ago. It's a similar story with tablets.

The only thing that will force people to upgrade is if everyone suddenly decides that VR or some other new paradigm is a must have. Again though, it's only nerds who care about VR, in the mainstream it's not even moving the needle and will go the way of 3D TVs.

Apple stopped pandering to us nerds a long time ago. Apple is not in the business of peddling Intel's overpriced offerings just so a couple of nerds can crow about their geekbench scores. They cater to mass markets and mass market users don't need hexacore Xeons to mess around on Facebook.
[doublepost=1466034125][/doublepost]

I remember when Linus Torvalds wrote an expletave-laden article about HFS and HFS+ filesystems. Linus called it real terrible.

Several articles were written including a piece in CIO magazine titled
"Linus Torvalds: Apple's HFS+ is probably the worst file system ever"

In that article, which can be found online, Linus said "Ok, so NTFS did some of the same. But apple really took it to the next level with HFS+." He also said of the developers of HFS+ "Give them some paste, and let them sit in a corner eating it. " Strong words. Thankfully Apple has budget to fix it.

He was right too. HFS+ is the biggest bottleneck in the system (it can only write one file in a single operation) so Apple has to get around it caching to ram. It has a lot of other problems too.

I am really excited by this. If this new file system is half as good as ZFS or even EXT4, it will be enough to stop me making the complete switch to Linux.
[doublepost=1466034720][/doublepost]

Still cannot forget Tim Cook coming out for the keynote and bowing to the Chinese.....how about all the other fans around the world?

Because with one word: China, he can address 1.3 billion people.
[doublepost=1466036144][/doublepost]

Apple lost it's DNA, values and focus.

No, they just changed to adapt to the mainstream market and their values are more inline with today's zeitgeist of diversity and the environment. I personally wish more company's had their social conscience.

There's plenty of other vendors out there who will pander to people who buy on specs and price.

 

[abhibeckert]

Outside the US hardly anyone cares about iMessage. Everyone else uses Whatsapp or WeChat.

I'm outside the US and have never met anyone who uses WhatsApp or WeChat.

It's about an even split between iMessage, Facebook and 'ol fashioned SMS. Since iMessage falls back to SMS, it's what I use.

 

[Osty]

Is that like a bowel movement?
[doublepost=1465984749][/doublepost]

We expected the World Wide Developer's Conference to be aimed at developers rather than children who like emojis, fireworks, and invisible ink.

The conference is, the keynote is not.

 

[Michael Goff]

He agrees with having 16 GB of base storage on the iPhone.

"Can't innovate anymore my ass." Um, it's a Mac Pro with a new design.

Between Cook and Schiller, they're both responsible for how Apple looks like major crooks compared to most companies. His job is to blow things out of proportion by making overpriced products sound better than they really are. Anyone who actually likes the guy has fanboy written all over them.

So you hate the head of marketing doing his job?

 

[name99]

I remember when Linus Torvalds wrote an expletave-laden article about HFS and HFS+ filesystems. Linus called it real terrible.

Several articles were written including a piece in CIO magazine titled
"Linus Torvalds: Apple's HFS+ is probably the worst file system ever"

In that article, which can be found online, Linus said "Ok, so NTFS did some of the same. But apple really took it to the next level with HFS+." He also said of the developers of HFS+ "Give them some paste, and let them sit in a corner eating it. " Strong words. Thankfully Apple has budget to fix it.

Linus thinks that ANYTHING that doesn't match the paradigm he is used to (x86 instruction set, hierarchical paging VM, C89 language, UNIX OS) is garbage. He is utterly unwilling to accept that there are multiple ways to solve problems, and that there are computing problems that look very different from the server-dominated Linux world he lives in.
You're doing yourself no favors by taking his rants seriously. To listen to him ARM also sucks (just like PPC before it), Objective C sucks (as does Swift), etc etc.

 

[robeddie]

iPhone/iPad and any other similar smart devices are computers. They actually work very much the same as their less mobile counterparts (you see, laptops are also mobile devices.)

Despite the fact that you think you can't do anything with them, today's iPhones and iPads are twice and more as powerful as laptops from less than 10 years ago (in raw computing power), are completely interactive.

You might not like how they work and what they allow you to do, but they are computers and very capable ones at that.

Despite the fact what internet warriors think about, you can create things on an iPad Pro out of the box that you can't on a macbook. I don't think its a replacement, and I don't think it will be any time soon, but saying these are "consuming devices" and "not computers" is just shallow ignorance.

If you don't deem the power iPad Pro sports under the hood as computing that's your problem not the devices problem.

Pure fact that it's a different kind of computer doesn't mean its not a computer. Or a consumer device (like TVs or radio transmitters or something).

It's all semantics. When those of us say 'real computer' these days, we mean something more that a toy designed almost exclusively for media consumption and social networking. We all know a digital clock is a 'computer' technically, anyway. But when we use the term 'real computer' we are referring to something that has the flexibility to run almost any program available (not just what apple deems fit on the app store) ... something that allows us to manage our files and programs in unique ways ... and something that allows us to use truly powerful content creation software (like Adobe premiere) to create complex works that may require way more than 128 gigs of space and require external drives to support. The list goes on, but again, my point is that when we say 'real computer' we're definitely not talking about the ipad.

 

[developer13245]

Then go back to Windows already! To listen to you developers talk out here on these forums, it's seems that's all you developers care about, is what Apple is doing for you, or that's all Apple should be focused on, is what's in it for you as a developer. Features that may matter to an end user don't matter, right?

Everyone complaining about emojis and other new features that debuted in the keynote. I got news for you, Apples sales numbers and stock price are more important than your developer priorities and consumers buying Apple products that have the features that have become main stream in today's social world take priority.

If Apple does a study and discovers thousands of people are choosing to buy Samsung phones over iPhones because their phones have features the iPhone doesn't, guess what...here comes iOS 10 with quirky emojis and other gimmicks. I could live without all that crap myself, but it is what it is and Apple has to stay relevant.

If Apple doesn't stay relevant, then you can be a developer for a product people no longer care about and don't buy. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Does Apple need to show you developers some live? Maybe so, just don't act like you always deserve priority.

Are you so drowned in flavor-aid that you don't see how the issue of developer satisfaction is dodged?

See Apple's latest financial reports to see how iPhone sales have declined.

And see :
https://www.macrumors.com/2016/06/02/meeker-2016-internet-trends/
and:
Apple's Suppliers Projecting Weak Demand for iPhone 7 Due to 'Lack of Innovation'
... to see how the future for iOS is dimming.

Apple has forced some very bad changes to the app store in the last few years.

Family share forces us to give away 5 copies for one sale. They also removed discoverability features from the app store by removing the simple sort by release date feature.

You make it sound like Apple would be just fine without app developers. Apple treated developers well in the beginning of the iOS app store because Apple needed developers (large and small) to make the platform a success. Now the changes Apple has FORCED on developers are killing small developers. This will not turn out well for Apple.

 

[ilman92]

It's all semantics. When those of us say 'real computer' these days, we mean something more that a toy designed almost exclusively for media consumption and social networking. We all know a digital clock is a 'computer' technically, anyway. But when we use the term 'real computer' we are referring to something that has the flexibility to run almost any program available (not just what apple deems fit on the app store) ... something that allows us to manage our files and programs in unique ways ... and something that allows us to use truly powerful content creation software (like Adobe premiere) to create complex works that may require way more than 128 gigs of space and require external drives to support. The list goes on, but again, my point is that when we say 'real computer' we're definitely not talking about the ipad.

What a narrow definition of computing, while dismissing devices outside your definition as toys designed for media consumption. Quite a number of professions can work exclusively or almost exclusively with the iPad for their computing tasks. The paradigm is changing.

 

[developer13245]

People spend a year telling Apple they only thing they want from the next version of OSX is bug fixes.
Then when Apple gives them a release that is 90% bug fixes (and so there is little to talk about except "fluff") they complain like it's the end of the world.

God people suck.

Where does Apple say that 90% of changes are bug fixes?

 

[TechZeke]

I don't know how true that is. Maybe if no one is assisting them in the purchase, but I have never installed an SSD for a non-technical client where they weren't blown away by the speed. On top of that, the vast majority of the people whose computers I work on rarely exceed 150GB, and it's generally MUCH lower than that.

The only two groups I see that regularly use a lot of space are professionals in graphic arts, video, or heavy music and people who do a ton of torrenting. There are other outliers, but your "average" user doesn't even know how to fill up 500GB. It's not like they're storing their photos in RAW or something.

My mom is currently scanning old pictures and is worried she's going to fill the computer up. "Mom, you've used up like 10 gigs." "Is that a lot." "You have another 200 left. You're good."

I never said average joe or Jane actually needs the storage, but typically all they see is that 500GB machine is cheaper than the 128GB machine. Plus, what you say falls exactly in-line with my observations as well. Unfortunately, my experience is not that great when it comes to recommending laptops which is why I've given up on doing it even when people ask - almost every single time when I recommend an SSD, my advice is thrown out the window because they feel they need 500GB or 1TB.

Typically, with cMBP for example, they buy the machine then a few months later complain about how slow it is. It's just how it is.

 

[developer13245]

... and one more thing...

We are developers - so we have experience developing. Most of us have worked in organizations similar to Apple which means we have insight into how Apple's outward actions point to enormous problems INSIDE Apple.

My sad opinion is that Apple is rotting. I could spend a week writing an op-ed "takedown" that explains why I believe this is the case. However, it would not be in my best interest to do so. Yes - Apple retaliates, picks winners, etc.... they need to hold all the cards, so crossing them is not a good idea.

The biggest evidence that Apple is rotting, is how iOS 9 implemented "trickery" in getting users to update to the latest release. When an update is available, a system alert is displayed, but if the user hits the "install Later" button then a passcode screen is shown (I don't know what happens if an unlock passcode is NOT set).. the option to "just go away" is hidden at the bottom of the enter passcode view. The only reason for this workflow is trickery.

Apple used to pride itself with being so user centric design focused, which was very good.. But seeing this type of trickery is strong evidence of how far their core principles have slipped.

 

[Black Magic]

Because he's a clown. A professional liar is another name for his position.
[doublepost=1466031349][/doublepost]

If you were smart, you'd know Schiller isn't the CEO.

I think you received the hint of what I'm trying to say here.

The fact that you can't figure out that I'm referring to you pretty much validated my original comment. In short, the mind is a terrible thing to waste.

 

[PeterJay]

The Mac users I know, like myself, want stability and not gimmicks, and a new file system is the most exciting thing Apple has announced with relevance to the Mac in many years' time.

Then you and your friends are not typical iOS users (neither am I, for that matter)
[doublepost=1466063445][/doublepost]

Try using Messenger or other apps that support that, if needed. Perhaps google will step up and write an app supporting iMessage for their users?

it would be best if Apple wrote a "Messages for Android" to let Android users follow and participate in the conversation, but simply not allow Android users access to the newest features or plugins.

 

[MH01]

Because with one word: China, he can address 1.3 billion people.

I think it's shameless ass kissing for profit. Apple does not need to do that ... Profits will come . Though this is TC Apple , highest company value = profit

 

[PeterJay]

New Apple vision: lowest common denominator pandering

The keynote has a worldwide, non- techie audience.

We get the rest of WWDC
[doublepost=1466063931][/doublepost]

Of course, if you don't even talk about your File System, how do you expect developer to get excited about it?

Yet