Phil Schiller: Apple Working With Consumer Reports to Understand MacBook Pro Battery Test

[vmistery]

It's good that there is engagement between them rather than just bickering. Let's hope one way or another it's proven or disproven soon.

 

[Juicy Box]

There is a big difference in our comments. I am commenting on basis of first hand experience with a 2016 MBP15. Your comment is a comment on the observation of others.

What value have you added with your comments? Nothing.

This thread would be much more informative if only first hand users posted. This way we can compare notes and help each other out. Your comments are just chaff that get in the way of an informed discussion.

Donald Barar

I was providing an answer to your comment:

I do not understand the complaining.

Clearly you don't value other peoples first hand experiences, or just dismiss it. Either way, I have just as much right to post my comment as you do yours.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

Imagine this scenario at the next Fall Mac event...

"You know, for many years now, Apple has led industry hardware design in several ways, but one way in particular has come to be expected in every hardware generation: we've made our products thinner and thinner and thinner while maintaining key metrics important to our customers. That's very hard to do but we've been successful at doing it for a long, long time.

There comes a point though where the laws of physics trumps continuing to thin some of our products. For the last year or two, we've continued to prioritize thinner beyond those laws by removing things that some of our customer's tell us they miss. One thing we hate to do above all else is disappoint our customers.

So, today we are doing something revolutionary for the Apple you've come to know... today we are launching the next generation of Mac laptops that... are... thicker. Yes thicker. By adding just a few millimeters to the size- less than the thickness of 3 dimes stacked on top of each other- we are able to fill that space with more battery and more RAM. This MacBook's bigger batteries run not for 8 hours, not 10 hours, not 12 hours but 14 hours on a single charge.

And not just in our own lab tests. To talk about that, we're happy to have the most objective product review company on Earth here today. Help me welcome <name> from Consumer Reports to the stage.

The CR guy them comes out, talks about getting a pre-launch review model to put through their tests, makes a joke about Apple's demands for absolute secrecy and then confirms 14+ hours of battery life in CR testing.

Is that an abhorrent fantasy sequence? Would any of us HATE the idea of trading a few millimeters for more battery?

In my head, a move like that helps Apple take the "must be thinner" pressure off themselves in one swing AND makes it appear that customer wants trumps nickel & diming profitability and/or the (Henry Ford faster car) "we know best" stance. Or more simply: the Apple that we remember- the one that appears to care about users more than shareholders (whether they ever really did or not)- appears to be back.

Do we consumers rebel because it's not "even thinner" by kicking other useful utility out? Or is that a "shut up and take my money" launch... that also relieves the growing(?) sense that the Apple we think we knew has been lost to the bean counters?

Just a fantasy by a long-term Apple product buyer. If you don't like this one, roll your own. Key concept with this one is that it is relatively easily accomplished... not depending on some kind of major battery breakthrough or similar. And frankly: I think we're well past the day that "thinner" should be at the top of the list for the next generation product development team.

And hopefully that thicker laptop will again have MagSafe.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Of course it will (it's my fantasy, so I'll just imagine it in).

 

[codybarbo]

picked up the 15" MBP and the battery life indeed sucks...expecting a hardware update and getting this thing up to par with their claims

 

[mac_in_tosh]

I found the solution to all our MBP woes: just chuck this in your dongle satchel. Problem solved, lol.

Yeah, what's another $80? Ha.

 

[BuddyTronic]

Phil and Tim, get your act together. Give the Mac some love.

You know, for an extra 2 or 3mm "Thickness" - they probably could have had a 24 hour battery - but there is this idea of making everything slippery and thin - as if that were some wonderful attribute.

I'd rather have a MacBook Pro that weighed 2 pounds less that was made of plastic and maybe was a bit thicker to accommodate a larger battery. I'm no expert however - maybe the aluminum housing is already lightweight and has extra good stiffness. But this battery nonsense and thinness obsession seems to be causing problems for no good reason.

 

[bjet767]

The reality is: The Mac is a dying platform.

Really?

And by what stats do you make such a claim?

This wiki would disagree with you.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems

But I guess one can't believe everything posted on the internet!

 

[citysnaps]

Just curious! Did Apple question CR's battery tests when their products passed the tests in previous years??

And I need to understand what is Apple doing in their battery tests.. Are they just shutting down the computer and turning back on 10 hours later or what? Because with just some youtubeing and surfing on the web I get no more than 3 hours..

"Just curious! Did Apple question CR's battery tests when their products passed the tests in previous years??"

Why would they as CR's results were likely in rough alignment with Apple's?



"And I need to understand what is Apple doing in their battery battery tests. Are they just shutting down the computer and turning back on 10 hours later or what?"

And I need to understand what is Consumer Reports doing in their rigorous real-life tests, achieving 12 hours, 16 hours, 18 1/2 hours, and 19 1/2 hours of use. Since you're speculating, maybe they did something similar?

 

[zedsdead]

Just returned my tbMBP 13". I have NEVER in over 15 years of owning and using Macs returned one. But between the really poor battery life and the constant freezes I just couldn't take it anymore. The machine was $3000, and it did not feel like a $3000 upgrade from my 2013 rMBP which has had ZERO issues since day one (possibly the best Mac I have ever owned actually).

Gonna give it until rev 2 to see what Apple does. There have been way too many problems, and it isn't worth the effort. I use mine for work purposes and it wasn't making the cut.

It's honestly very upsetting. I know the Mac isn't completely being dumped by Apple, but the lack of focus and clarity on the line is really sad. That Mark Gurman article sounds 100% accurate. Part of me returning this machine was to send a message to Apple.

If Apple dumps the Mac I will dump Apple. I love the iPhone and iPad, but its the Mac that keeps me with Apple. It's people like myself and many on here that sold our relatives and friends on Apple, and if they abandon us the rest of the company will slowly erode.

I will wait a year and see what happens. This feels like the iPhone 4 Antenna issue that magically had a new design and was fixed with the iPhone 4s without Apple saying it was ever a full blown problem.

 

[triton100]

I wonder if Apple will be forced to allow people to trade in their MacBook Pro 2016s for the next improved updated model, if it is indeed proven that battery life is not as long as advertised.

As surely that is false advertising?
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Just returned my tbMBP 13". I have NEVER in over 15 years of owning and using Macs returned one. But between the really poor battery life and the constant freezes I just couldn't take it anymore. The machine was $3000, and it did not feel like a $3000 upgrade from my 2013 rMBP which has had ZERO issues since day one (possibly the best Mac I have ever owned actually).

Gonna give it until rev 2 to see what Apple does. There have been way too many problems, and it isn't worth the effort. I use mine for work purposes and it wasn't making the cut.

It's honestly very upsetting. I know the Mac isn't completely being dumped by Apple, but the lack of focus and clarity on the line is really sad. That Mark Gurman article sounds 100% accurate. Part of me returning this machine was to send a message to Apple.

If Apple dumps the Mac I will dump Apple. I love the iPhone and iPad, but its the Mac that keeps me with Apple. It's people like myself and many on here that sold our relatives and friends on Apple, and if they abandon us the rest of the company will slowly erode.

I will wait a year and see what happens. This feels like the iPhone 4 Antenna issue that magically had a new design and was fixed with the iPhone 4s without Apple saying it was ever a full blown problem.

I'm currently doing my own battery tests on the MacBook Pro 15 touchbar and so far it's not looking good.

I've put my 2015 MacBook 15 for sale on eBay and I have probably around 2 days left to decide whether to keep it, and return the new one. I'm torn.

Apart from the battery I personally really like the new machine. I love the touch bar. But I don't want to be stuck with a dud of a computer due to weak battery life. Ugh

 

[dogslobber]

People should stop using what they think Jobs would or wouldn't have done to reinforce their opinions. Just state your opinion and be done with it. None of know what Jobs would have done and he's gone.

People should stop saying people should stop saying what they think Steve would've done.

 

[KPOM]

You know, for an extra 2 or 3mm "Thickness" - they probably could have had a 24 hour battery - but there is this idea of making everything slippery and thin - as if that were some wonderful attribute.

I'd rather have a MacBook Pro that weighed 2 pounds less that was made of plastic and maybe was a bit thicker to accommodate a larger battery. I'm no expert however - maybe the aluminum housing is already lightweight and has extra good stiffness. But this battery nonsense and thinness obsession seems to be causing problems for no good reason.

It would take a lot more than an extra 2-3mm to get to a 24-hour battery. The old model weighed half a pound more and didn't have a 24-hour battery.

Aluminum helps with thermal management. Plastic isn't very conductive of heat.

 

[azpekt]

I put my rMBP 2015 for sale few days ago, to get 2016 one. Then I saw this news and Mr. Schiller awkward tweet. I deleted my for-sale message, and started to love my rMBP 2015 even more.

 

[junkstory]

It sounds like Consumer Report received a bad batch of Macbook Pros with faulty batteries. Still not an excuse for a $3k+ laptop.

 

[KPOM]

Jobs would never have let a gimmick like touchbar out of R&D, let alone Apple Watch and this MacBook (Air) Pro

How is the new MacBook Pro an Air? Perhaps the non-touch bar model, which uses the 15W processor, is an Air replacement, but the Touch Bar models use the same class of processors as their predecessors.
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It sounds like Consumer Report received a bad batch of Macbook Pros with faulty batteries. Still not an excuse for a $3k+ laptop.

It could be a software issue, as well. The wide disparity between their tests suggests it is a possibility. Apple clearly wants the CR recommendation, so it makes sense to see if CR stumbled upon a software bug that is causing higher power consumption.

 

[magicMac]

Unless I am reading it wrong the article says that when they ran the tests in Safari they experienced poor battery life -- conversely when they re-ran the tests in Chrome they experienced consistently high battery life. So I don't think your point stands.

you misread my post i'm afraid. Please re-read it and you will realise you have read it the wrong way round.

 

[pat500000]

Seems like cr have a big voice to get phill worked up. The next keynote they present will be a room filled with doubters.

"It's amazing."
"Boo!" "Show us the proof!"

 

[macTW]

You mean, Apple is working with Consumer Reports to help them understand how they're using the machine wrong.

The problem isn't that Apple's power saving features don't work. They work exceptionally well, that's where 16 hours is coming from. The problem is that they work too well and the battery is undersized. The moment you load the machine down, the battery % begins to drop through the floor because the machine quite literally was not designed for that kind of use. The "time remaining" indicator only served to highlight just how fast the % was falling (since it's far more difficult for a user to gauge the remaining time left based solely on a plummeting number), which is why they got rid of it. Apple wanted snazzy specs in a thin package, and this is the end result.

If they'd built the laptop properly with sufficient battery capacity, we'd be seeing a laptop that lasts 20-30 hours (!) under light use, and 7-8 hours under heavy use. Then I don't think anyone would be complaining. ~4 hours, however, isn't much, and is pretty inexcusable for what is being sold as a premium device.

No matter how much damage control they engage in, and no matter what they say about these devices or the users, it doesn't change the fact that the design is fundamentally flawed and Apple cannot change the laws of physics.

-SC

Have you ever seen a laptop fitting your dream specs? That's a dream for you, not "Apple built right."

Don't mix your desires with apples business plans. I'm surprised you know what apples plan was.

 

[ImaxGuy]

I agree, i.e. The MB Air, all we asked for was a retina screen, and they could laugh all the way to the bank for another 10 years

Yup. Apple also has this fixation of 10 hours battery life being the pinnacle of mobile computing & that seems to be their target for their reduction in size and weight of their devices generation after generation. What if we want/need MORE than 10 hours of minimal CPU activity?

 

[junkstory]

Have you ever seen a laptop fitting your dream specs? That's a dream for you, not "Apple built right."

Don't mix your desires with apples business plans. I'm surprised you know what apples plan was.

Thank you. You just summarized exactly why the Macbook Pro is poorly received: Apple isn't aligning their plan with the customers' desire anymore.

 

[Mark Booth]

Time to fire the cook.

First Christmas ever, nothing Apple under the tree. What a shame.

Yes, but just think of all of the dongles that are in the stockings of 2016 MacBook Pro buyers! Gold mine!

Mark

 

[pkissel]

You mean, Apple is working with Consumer Reports to help them understand how they're using the machine wrong.

The problem isn't that Apple's power saving features don't work. They work exceptionally well, that's where 16 hours is coming from. The problem is that they work too well and the battery is undersized. The moment you load the machine down, the battery % begins to drop through the floor because the machine quite literally was not designed for that kind of use. The "time remaining" indicator only served to highlight just how fast the % was falling (since it's far more difficult for a user to gauge the remaining time left based solely on a plummeting number), which is why they got rid of it. Apple wanted snazzy specs in a thin package, and this is the end result.

If they'd built the laptop properly with sufficient battery capacity, we'd be seeing a laptop that lasts 20-30 hours (!) under light use, and 7-8 hours under heavy use. Then I don't think anyone would be complaining. ~4 hours, however, isn't much, and is pretty inexcusable for what is being sold as a premium device.

No matter how much damage control they engage in, and no matter what they say about these devices or the users, it doesn't change the fact that the design is fundamentally flawed and Apple cannot change the laws of physics.

-SC

Worse still, they have failed to provide a compelling "buy" reason for those of us who buy rMBP 15s as a portable desktop replacement and don't necessarily care about battery life. My MBP is plugged-in and closed 90% of the time. The features I care about most Apple completely failed to improve/deliver in the 2016 MBP 15". Thank god that Apple still knew how to make a great rMBP15 in 2012 and mine is still performing well enough. And before someone suggests just going with a Windows laptop remember for some of us that just isn't an option for one reason or another. It's not one for me.

 

[mwidjaya]

I agree, i.e. The MB Air, all we asked for was a retina screen, and they could laugh all the way to the bank for another 10 years

So true. Even without retina, the MacBook Air is a favorite of mine. Walt Mossberg too apparently.

https://twitter.com/verge/status/804058345002799104

 

[Rogifan]

It's not the job of Consumer Reports to troubleshoot products. Their job is to use them as a consumer would, and report the results. That's it. There is no due diligence necessary beyond that.

So you get less than 4 hours in one test at 19 hours in another and don't wonder if something went wrong with your testing? Can you point me to another review that got 19 hours battery life?