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100s of reviews and user reports contradict CR.

95% of negative comments here by people who don't have new MBP.

Congrats for looking like hysterical wallies. It makes the rest of us wonder what else you use the internet for besides spreading misinformed and inexperienced opinion.
[doublepost=1482656439][/doublepost]

Some of that is agreeable but some of that is misinformed. Let's break down what you posted.

1. crippled the mac mini from quad core to dual core

I agree that more cores can be useful but apps have been making better and better use each core in the last few years. Intel pricing and release dates also had an impact on Mac Mini specs.

Quad cores have higher energy consumption too. The planet matters.

2. crippled the mac mini from user replaceable RAM to soldered irreplaceable RAM ?

The whole Mac line is moving towards easy recyclability. This is something people need to be aware of. The planet matters.

3. crippled the iMac to soldered RAM and 5,400 rpm HD

Soldered RAM again is an issue of ease of recycling. The HDD is became home users prefer disk space and want to keep costs down. If you are pro you go for the SSD version.

4. crippled the MacPro removing all the expansion HD slots and CARD slots ?

True this annoyed a lot of us Pros. But it was primarily EU energy regulation that killed off the Mac Pro tower. When Apple had to take it off the market they redesigned the Mac Pro to be power efficient. The planet matters.

5. crippled the mac book to one only port, a slower processor and removed mag safe ?

Intel's release dates decide which CPUs get used.

You can't have MagSafe and USB charging. It would require multiple power lines and a bigger PSU.

6. crippled Mac OS X so you no longer can access ROOT, no longer can format to 0, etc. ?

You can access root if you want. You can format to zero - choose the higher secure option. It's just the wording that has changed.

7. crippled Quicktime

Because soon it will no longer be needed and is no longer supported on Windows.

8. removed the airport base stations and Apple monitor ?

Because Apple is happy to let specialist companies supply these peripherals to consumers. What's there point of buying panels from Samsung or LG and competing against them when they can sell cheaper?

I am sorry with all due respect you appear to be clueless about technical matters and it seems you justify anything with either mainstream media statements or your own facts

the people who understand technology know what I was referring to in my list
 
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I have the mid 2015 MacBook Pro 15 maxed out version and it gives the exact same battery performance as the new 2016 equivalent.
[doublepost=1482687789][/doublepost]
Hi there, I'm finding my MacBook Pro 2015 gives the same short battery life as my new 2016 Macbook pro touchbar model.

3 hours for video editing SD non 4K.
5 hours playing two YouTube videos simultaneously. On both machines.


I believe your data. Also, I don't have a 2015 MBP and therefore I cannot form an opinion of my own.

That being said, I have a question for you. All respectable reviewers (like those at TheVerge for example) found that the battery was underperforming, especially when compared to last-year models. This is in contrast with what you say. Any thoughts about this?


My personal experience is, as I already wrote, very bad.
As soon as you start using "seriously" the MBP the battery life drops to 1-2 hours (very surprised by your 3 hours of video editing, I'll try myself very soon).
The lightest use of it I can imagine gives me 5-6 hours.
 
:rolleyes:

So, after rating almost every past Apple product very, very highly, CR just figured out this click marketing trick... and decided to compromise their long-term reputation of objective consumer product reviews to get more clicks? How can we write such stuff down?

It's called "shooting the messenger" and is quite common from a historical perspective...
 
100s of reviews and user reports contradict CR.

95% of negative comments here by people who don't have new MBP.

Congrats for looking like hysterical wallies. It makes the rest of us wonder what else you use the internet for besides spreading misinformed and inexperienced opinion.
[doublepost=1482656439][/doublepost]

Some of that is agreeable but some of that is misinformed. Let's break down what you posted.

1. crippled the mac mini from quad core to dual core

I agree that more cores can be useful but apps have been making better and better use each core in the last few years. Intel pricing and release dates also had an impact on Mac Mini specs.

Quad cores have higher energy consumption too. The planet matters.

2. crippled the mac mini from user replaceable RAM to soldered irreplaceable RAM ?

The whole Mac line is moving towards easy recyclability. This is something people need to be aware of. The planet matters.

3. crippled the iMac to soldered RAM and 5,400 rpm HD

Soldered RAM again is an issue of ease of recycling. The HDD is became home users prefer disk space and want to keep costs down. If you are pro you go for the SSD version.

4. crippled the MacPro removing all the expansion HD slots and CARD slots ?

True this annoyed a lot of us Pros. But it was primarily EU energy regulation that killed off the Mac Pro tower. When Apple had to take it off the market they redesigned the Mac Pro to be power efficient. The planet matters.

5. crippled the mac book to one only port, a slower processor and removed mag safe ?

Intel's release dates decide which CPUs get used.

You can't have MagSafe and USB charging. It would require multiple power lines and a bigger PSU.

6. crippled Mac OS X so you no longer can access ROOT, no longer can format to 0, etc. ?

You can access root if you want. You can format to zero - choose the higher secure option. It's just the wording that has changed.

7. crippled Quicktime

Because soon it will no longer be needed and is no longer supported on Windows.

8. removed the airport base stations and Apple monitor ?

Because Apple is happy to let specialist companies supply these peripherals to consumers. What's there point of buying panels from Samsung or LG and competing against them when they can sell cheaper?
Hardly anything you listed can be taken seriously. Soldering RAM and SSD is a good thing because the planet matters? What a joke.
Why would it be better for recycling to have a soldered RAM rather than a DIMM? Sorry I don't get it.
It wouldn't be better. The posters statement is just silly to begin with, but lets just say soldered RAM happened for environmental reasons. With un-soldered RAM, if it would go bad, you would just replace the bad RAM, with soldered RAM, the whole computer will most likely get replaced, unless you pay for a logic board replacement. This would lead to replacing more material than just RAM alone. Also, it would require more energy to replace a whole computer, than RAM sticks alone.

I am sorry with all due respect you appear to be clueless about technical matters and it seems you justifying anything with either mainstream media statements or your own facts

I wouldn't worry about post. I do not think the post was even serious.
 
Presumably CR's test suite was rigorous putting the laptop under a standardized reasonable real-life computational load in their battery life test suite.

What you're saying is a 19 1/2 hour result, almost twice as long as Apple's published maximum battery life spec, is a reasonable number and should not have caused CR to blink an eye or wonder in the slightest if their tests and procedures may have been faulty, or if the tests had been properly administered and monitored for accuracy.

What number would pique your curiosity and cause you to wonder? 25 hours? Maybe 40 hours? How about 100 hours?

Go ahead, pick a number that would give pause and motivate you to look even a little bit deeper to try and understand what's going on. If you won't pick a number, I'll assume you're totally fine with 100 hours.

Would any of those results cause you to say, "Hmmm... Something is wrong, the laptop is seemingly executing our suite of rigorous tests as expected (loading web pages, playing video , whatever, etc), but the battery is lasting what seems like (relatively) forever - I wonder if there's something wrong with our test procedures, and if they're being administered and monitored properly." Otherwise, do you see anything wrong with that lack of intellectual curiosity?

It's as if they were saying, well, the laptop was hooked up and turned on doing our standard set of tests as expected, and yes we got a battery life result that's almost twice as large as Apple's published maximum battery life number, but that's cool, it must be true, no need to look further, or even wonder about our test procedures.

What if CR were testing, say a Ford F150 truck with their optional eight cylinder engine, one which might have an EPA mileage rating of, say, 15 - 21 MPG. And they conducted a set of mileage tests over a closed loop course where they got 41 MPG in one set, would you find anything strange about that? If not, why not? Would you expect they might want to investigate the reliability of their test protocols and procedures? If not, why not?
The facts were the results were all over the radar. They had results from 3 hours to 19 hours. So that is a warning sign of very inconsistent results. The second issue is when the tests were done using other web browsers. Safari was causing major battery drain issues not Chrome. So this would lead anyone to believe if web browsers were causing this much of an issue, what other apps will have the same effect? I worked for Apple for 14 years and know how they operate Q and A. It isnt intense and always rushed. They love to get free help from the public or wait for issues after the fact to come out before they fix issues. Of course it will take then a very long time to admit there is even a problem aftert they blame the consumers first. Recent example is the iPhone battery issue.Theyve known this issue for quite some time affected all phones but wont budge till forced to fix them all. Right now zero plan to address all of them. Its a very shady company behind the scenes and if the public only knew the rhetoric they put out behind the scenes. Have a great Christmas, we will disagree as it sounds like Apple can do no wrong in your eyes and everyone who says anything slightly critical is completely wrong. Or youre Apple super secret social media police defending Apple and looking for employees.
 
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Because Apple is happy to let specialist companies supply these peripherals to consumers. What's there point of buying panels from Samsung or LG and competing against them when they can sell cheaper?

Why not let Apple make computers by them too? I'm sure they will be cheaper. All Apple had to do was design the outside of the monitor and make it from the same materials as Macs, how difficult can it be? Since Apple is acting as the Gucci and Prada from the tech industry they of all should know how important it is to fit by your suit.

As for the soldered Ram and ssd's, there isn't any other reason to do so except pure greed. As someone else already told it will shorten its lifecycle and all will go away as pure waste. Apple shouldn't only talk green when it suits them but act green as well.
 
I believe your data. Also, I don't have a 2015 MBP and therefore I cannot form an opinion of my own.

That being said, I have a question for you. All respectable reviewers (like those at TheVerge for example) found that the battery was underperforming, especially when compared to last-year models. This is in contrast with what you say. Any thoughts about this?


My personal experience is, as I already wrote, very bad.
As soon as you start using "seriously" the MBP the battery life drops to 1-2 hours (very surprised by your 3 hours of video editing, I'll try myself very soon).
The lightest use of it I can imagine gives me 5-6 hours.


The thing is, though I have a laptop it's nearly always plugged in so I've never really noticed whether my laptops were giving good battery life or not.

It wasn't until this thread and the negative news that got me to thinking I should check it out. I basically ran both my machines side by side. Mid 2015 specced out 15 inch and latest specced out 2016 15. I found they both got the same results. Which it has to be said are not great.

I never realised till it was brought up by CR etc how bad.

Not even saying my tests are exhaustive though. I'm not a tech expert. I'm a creative user. I literally simply ran a couple of videos through safari on each one and noticed that you got 3 mins life for every 1 % battery equating to 5 hours. And as I said before with video editing I got around 3. But I wasn't using 4K or any heavy grading or layered graphics like motion or magic bullet. The battery life I got seemed concurrent with both machines.

I'm now torn over which machine to keep. Everyone's raving about the 2015 but as Im seeming to find they are both the same battery wise. Everything else re noisy flat keyboard, ports etc I can live with and I really like the touch bar. I got a good deal when I bought the 2016 which offset the massive outlay for it. So if the battery life I'm finding is the same as the 2015 I'm thinking I may as well keep the 2016. I think I may have answered my own question.
 
I really don't get it - why is everybody obsessed with battery life...? There's a fundamental problem with this machine - it's not what it was supposed to be ie. MacBook Pro. It's simply overpriced MacBook/MacBook Air.
I don't really believe any pro (ie. somebody getting the machine for professional use) will disagree... You get a MacBook Pro stripped of all pro features (from basic stuff like being upgradeable to small things like MagSafe or card reader). I think Apple is simply confusing a pro with a person who owns a big collection of dongles of all sorts.
I really don't care about these 2mm they shaved. But I do care about the machine being pretty much unusable for any serious work.
 
The facts were the results were all over the radar. They had results from 3 hours to 19 hours. So that is a warning sign of very inconsistent results. The second issue is when the tests were done using other web browsers. Safari was causing major battery drain issues not Chrome. So this would lead anyone to believe if web browsers were causing this much of an issue, what other apps will have the same effect? I worked for Apple for 14 years and know how they operate Q and A. It isnt intense and always rushed. They love to get free help from the public or wait for issues after the fact to come out before they fix issues. Of course it will take then a very long time to admit there is even a problem aftert they blame the consumers first. Recent example is the iPhone battery issue.Theyve known this issue for quite some time affected all phones but wont budge till forced to fix them all. Right now zero plan to address all of them. Its a very shady company behind the scenes and if the public only knew the rhetoric they put out behind the scenes. Have a great Christmas, we will disagree as it sounds like Apple can do no wrong in your eyes and everyone who says anything slightly critical is completely wrong. Or youre Apple super secret social media police defending Apple and looking for employees.

"Have a great Christmas, we will disagree as it sounds like Apple can do no wrong in your eyes and everyone who says anything slightly critical is completely wrong. Or youre Apple super secret social media police defending Apple and looking for employees."

Absolutely not true and a cheap shot. That's the refuge of being out of gas and not being able (or willing) to address the issues I've brought up.

So once more, hopefully without obfuscation or put-downs this time... With Apple's laptops under CR's standardized suite of rigorous real-life battery tests (web browsing, video playback, etc), since 18 1/2 and 19 1/2 hour battery life numbers don't raise your eyebrows and seem plausible to you, what greater number of hours would you say, "Hold on, there's something wrong here, maybe it would be good to look at the tests, test procedures, and test monitoring.

Would 50 hours cause you to take notice? Maybe 100 hours? Surely there must be a number that you would find surprising, triggering even a tiny bit of curiosity? It really is a sincere, simple, and very meaningful question.

Or, perhaps you wouldn't find those numbers unusual when browsing the web with any laptop?
 
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In short, you would take random anecdotes of poor battery life from people on forums and social media at their word? Just like that?
Unlike Apple those people don't have financial incentives to lie. I know you're one of the biggest Apple fanboys on the forum, but even you should be able to understand that you're unlikely to get complete honestly concerning the flaws of a product from the people who market said product.
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I've owned the base model nTB 13" for about a month now and can tell you I almost consistently get 10+ hours per charge.

But people choose to believe the horror stories over the countless others who have no issues at all. People are aching to make this a huge scandal, just like antenna-gate. Apple has slowly cultivated the most ocd/fanatic/dramatic user base of any company I can think of, and the new MBP launch has showcased it at its ripest. Sad to see so many are disappointed. My experience with this new machine has been nothing short of excellent. But even though you say you trust users' feedback, it seems you (and many others) trust those who have negative experiences more than those who have positive ones.
Instead of facing the reality that a lot of people are having battery issues, you seem to want to deny it so you can assure yourself that you bought a good product.

"Your experience" is one anecdote. It doesn't change that battery life problems are occurring for users and reviewers alike.
 
Totally agreed.

It is so maddening that these guys are overlooking the strategic value of Mac platform in the whole Apple ecosystem.
...

Totally agreed.

... If they'd built the laptop properly with sufficient battery capacity, we'd be seeing a laptop that lasts 20-30 hours (!) under light use, and 7-8 hours under heavy use. Then I don't think anyone would be complaining. ~4 hours, however, isn't much, and is pretty inexcusable for what is being sold as a premium device.

No matter how much damage control they engage in, and no matter what they say about these devices or the users, it doesn't change the fact that the design is fundamentally flawed and Apple cannot change the laws of physics.

-SC

... The difference between idle power consumption and use under load is so vast these days, that I totally understand that a battery estimate is not accurate.


I think the problem is because Apple failed to communicate that users are now responsible for managing their energy.

If they'd simply taken an engineering technique and given it apple name as they sometimes do—Smart Power for example—and touted it as a feature, users would understand that these laptops are different. When it came time to form a judgement, people would have heard about Smart Power ten time already and wouldn't harp on the batter life as much.

It's a a product marketing failure for the most part. These machines are powerful and capable, yet users are blindsided by their characteristics because they don't know that they are different. Instead they just stated 10-hour life and hoped nobody would notice?! I have no idea here, it seems obvious looking back.

That said, they did fail to give these enough capacity (watt-hours). It should have been more for the same volume and weight and this was their engineering failure. That would limit the extent of the frustration, but not the cause.
 
Nobody would complain about a Pro machine that was modern, space gray and just a little thicker.
It could have USB-A and HDMI plus Ethernet.

But no, Apple did not want to build a reliable product.

USB-A and terrestrial Ethernet are the past. USB-C/TB3 and 802.12ac are the future. Since time only travels one direction (to the best of our knowledge), how would you rather Apple had designed a laptop that most people will use for the next five years or more? Especially since you can have a USB-A port with a $3 passive adapter, and an Ethernet port for $10, any time you want; but you can't turn either of those legacy ports into a 10 Gbps USB-C or 40 Gbps TB3 ports for ANY amount of money or hoping....

And do you realize how silly you sound when you say "Apple did not want to build a reliable product?" You undermine any points you may have with a stupid statement like that.
[doublepost=1482700207][/doublepost]
Just shows the Mac isn't a big deal to Apple anymore. Some of you people on here should consider Windows 10 devices, it's pretty cool and you can have it anyway you want it.

Whether tablet, 2 in 1, traditional laptop or desktop, your covered, you no longer have to wait on Apple to provide you over priced hardware when you can get a pretty good system for almost half price.
"A pretty good system"; talk about damning with faint praise!

Go back to service your NSA Overlords.
[doublepost=1482700416][/doublepost]
Apple made the battery in the 2016 MacBook Pro 1/3 smaller than the 2015 without reducing power consumption by 1/3.

Can anyone really be surprise with the worse battery life?
And how do you know what the actual power consumption is? Do you work in the Mac development group at Apple?
[doublepost=1482700627][/doublepost]
The 15", with 1TB SSD and the 460 AMD GPU should sell for $2500.
This is the amount I would be willing to pay.
I'm waiting for better mobile NVidia offerings and probably a revised Dell XPS.
Then I will switch and buy my first PC Laptop since I fully went OSX in 2006.
OH, you mean the XPS 15 who's battery info detail page returns a 404 error?

Yeah, gave fun with Dell's "we use whatever us ceapest this week" hardware choices.

Oh, and Windows 10, Spyware Edition...
[doublepost=1482701155][/doublepost]
I can confirm the battery life is terrible. I took a flight from the west coast to the east (of the US), and the laptop died before the end. My macbook air would have handled that, plus a lot more. It seemed short given the activities I was performing, I don't anticipate returning it at this point however
Of course we believe you, since you don't state:

1. The charge level when you entered the plane.

2. How long you sat on the ground before you took off.

3. How long the flight lasted.

4. How long the battery lasted.

5. What you were doing with the laptop.

6. Whether you had cycled the batteries all the way from full charge to empty and back,a few times before your trip (Rechargeable batteries take a few Deep-cycles before they deliver maximum run-time).
[doublepost=1482701365][/doublepost]
Battery on the 2016 model is 1/3 smaller than the 2015 model: that's the issue.
And you know that be ause you are privy to Apple's internal current-draw tests?
 
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I don't want to sound pedantic, but how many of you pro users of the new MacBook actually need to be able to have your MBP unplugged or independent from a power source to do the pro work? It's not a question intended to distort the fact that somewhere along the line mistakes have been made by Apple - maybe. I'm just curious of how effective your workflows are when in an unplugged environment.
 
The thing is, though I have a laptop it's nearly always plugged in so I've never really noticed whether my laptops were giving good battery life or not.

It wasn't until this thread and the negative news that got me to thinking I should check it out. I basically ran both my machines side by side. Mid 2015 specced out 15 inch and latest specced out 2016 15. I found they both got the same results. Which it has to be said are not great.

I never realised till it was brought up by CR etc how bad.

Not even saying my tests are exhaustive though. I'm not a tech expert. I'm a creative user. I literally simply ran a couple of videos through safari on each one and noticed that you got 3 mins life for every 1 % battery equating to 5 hours. And as I said before with video editing I got around 3. But I wasn't using 4K or any heavy grading or layered graphics like motion or magic bullet. The battery life I got seemed concurrent with both machines.

I'm now torn over which machine to keep. Everyone's raving about the 2015 but as Im seeming to find they are both the same battery wise. Everything else re noisy flat keyboard, ports etc I can live with and I really like the touch bar. I got a good deal when I bought the 2016 which offset the massive outlay for it. So if the battery life I'm finding is the same as the 2015 I'm thinking I may as well keep the 2016. I think I may have answered my own question.

Intetesting read thanks for posting.
Assuming Sierra on both rMBPs
Have you noticed any change in battery life on your 2015, since upgrading to Sierra.
 
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Way back in the 80's or late 70's, a Consumer's Union (CR) exec was quoted as saying ~"We're not selling facts, we're selling entertainment. Our articles should entertain our readers - we love it when an underdog wins a comparison review."

The irony of the situation is that, by refusing to accept advertisements (which they adamantly claimed was a prerequisite for unbiased reporting), CR had to depend on subscription sales to keep their revenue up. Unfortunately, this executive's statement rang true. Whenever they reviewed a product category I was familiar with (e.g. audio equipment), their results were vastly opposed to my experience (and even the experiences of the most casual audiophiles). I have been skeptical of their 'findings' ever since.


Apple does have a problem with battery life - or at least they did. But for CR to report this way is highly irresponsible. If they cared about they issue, then they would have reached out to Apple already - not the other way around! To simply take the lowest figure and throw out the rest is highly manipulative and irresponsible. This leaves the reader with no idea whether the problems were caused by Apple, or by Consumer Report's ignorance. For example, maybe it's simply something like Spotlight indexing gone mad. Addtionally, Apple may have already fixed the (core) problems with their latest software updates - CR should have done more testing to find out. After all, a laptop is not made of only hardware.

Responsible reporting determines the cause, and then lets the reader decide whether it will affect him or not.
I agree with everything you have said, plus point out that, since they themselves admit their low-lifetime figures were not repeatable with Chrome, tells me there is some background process or processes running amok in Safari itself. And if CR wasn't concerned with Clickbait, they would have done more testing that excluded Safari, since it is pretty damned obvious that it is the real culprit.
[doublepost=1482702844][/doublepost]
I have bought macbook pro after another for 3 iterations over a span of 15 years. This time I am going to buy the HP spectre. Just too many issues on the MBP for the price.
You're a liar or a fool if you say that and have actually looked at the Spectre's specs. So which is it?
[doublepost=1482704258][/doublepost]
This is a huge black eye.
Sez you.

However, it seems like almost all of the people that have actually purchased one would disagree wholeheartedly.

So, who do you think is right?
[doublepost=1482704410][/doublepost]
"Results do not match our extensive lab tests or field data."

That's funny, because they sure as hell match my real world use, Phil. Battery life and price have been my only real two complaints with the new MacBooks, but they are legitimate gripes and the main reason I'll most likely be keeping the max spec'd 2015 13" I bought at the same time to compare the two, and returning the 2016 MBP w/ TB next week.

Right. You bought nearly $5k's worth of laptops, rather than do a few hours of research. I believe that.

NOT!
 
Some of that is agreeable but some of that is misinformed. Let's break down what you posted.

1. crippled the mac mini from quad core to dual core

I agree that more cores can be useful but apps have been making better and better use each core in the last few years. Intel pricing and release dates also had an impact on Mac Mini specs.

Quad cores have higher energy consumption too. The planet matters.

2. crippled the mac mini from user replaceable RAM to soldered irreplaceable RAM ?

The whole Mac line is moving towards easy recyclability. This is something people need to be aware of. The planet matters.

Let me get this straight: Do you really believe that Apple started to sell mas with soldered RAM, irreparable machines and so on because they are simpler to recycle?
 
Right? I mean, look at it another way... companies like Dell who have very little margin in their products and much lower profit levels, have something like 10 models of laptops vs 2 or 3 -- and they manage to update them once every 6 months or a year.
You say that like it's a good thing.

Those companies aren't really Updating Anything. They are simply doing VERY incremental changes that essentially put the same hardware into new plastic, and calling it an "Update".

Now, I won't say that Apple hasn't had to do some of the same at some points along the way. Everyone is bound by the same Intel, Nvidia and AMD Roadmaps; but at least Apple is trying to innovate, with 5k displays, the hands-down world's fastest SSDs, 80 Gbps worth of multifunction I/O that can be easily and cheaply adapted to almost any legacy I/O, while being very future-proof, and their unique-in-the-industry Touch Bar. And all that is just in one model-year to the next.

Sorry, but that is just a bit more innovative than the typical HP/Lenovo/Dell "speed-bump" "Updates" (which Apple also does fairly often, and with little to no fanfare).
[doublepost=1482706001][/doublepost]
This is sooooo much it.

Undersized battery, masked by extreme power saving features. When you need CPU/GPU there just is no way to save energy and the battery should have been designed for that use case. They didn't, because they wanted a thin machine more than they wanted the battery to last.

So their bizarre focus on thinness actually now makes the machine less portable, 'cause there isn't power enough to keep the machine running for very long. Funny how that worked out.
Look, dude; although I agree that most power-savings functions won't help much in flat-out operation, they only reduced the battery capacity by 17%, not 50%. So, all things being equal, the most that that should have reduced the balls-to-the-walls battery life would be approximately 17%. 17% of 10 hours (600 mins) is 102 minutes, or a battery life of about 8 1/2 hours. That's not nothing; but it isn't the difference between 10 hours and 3 hours.
[doublepost=1482706071][/doublepost]
Thank god that the public magazines and CR are testing these devices. If no one would do it all customers would get flawed devices from Apple - where is the quality assurance and control from Apple? It is non-existent at all or on a very low level?
So, Ars Technica and others are just Shilling for Apple, then?
[doublepost=1482706199][/doublepost]
The real Mac Pro from 2012 was already great. An beautiful tower with lot of expansion capabilities. They only needed new chips inside the logic board - instead Apple gave us this black trashcan no one was asking about... a joke.
Apple just mis-calculated their and Intel's ability to push the adoption of Thunderbolt. It was an idea who's time is just now beginning to come true.
[doublepost=1482706847][/doublepost]
In the meantime, drop the price Phil!
you promised a Ferrari but you delivered a Toyota at the same price.
And be advice you and you buddy Tim, you are neglecting the Mac because
is not as much profitable as iOS devices, but you are making a huge mistake.
I have a lot and all sort of Apple devices because I like the ecosystem,
as soon I see that is not advantageous to buy a Mac, I stop buying everything is branded Apple.
Does a 5k Display sound like "neglect"?

Does the only laptop that can drive TWO external 4k displays sound like "neglect"?

Does 4 identical, future-proof USB-C/TB3 Ports with 80 Gbps I/O Bandwidth (more than ANY other laptop) that you can use in a wide variety of ways sound like "neglect"?

Does an industry-leading SSD design with nearly THREE TIMES the performance of ANY other SSDs sound like "neglect"?

Does a Unique-in-the-Industry multifunction OLED Touch interface sound like "neglect"?

Does a Best-In-Breed Trackpad nearly the size of an iPad mini sound like "neglect"?

...And ALL of those improvements are since last year's model!

Yeah, it's too bad that the Mac is only receiving more REAL innovations than the rest of the other OEM's laptops COMBINED. It's just being neglected...
[doublepost=1482707047][/doublepost]
And he's pretty much the only one out seeing Apple's POV.
Ahem.

I've been preaching the innovation of the USB-C/TB3 and the Touch Bar, etc. since the product debuted. Look at my posting history.
[doublepost=1482707545][/doublepost]
If everyone is saying the same thing, I would certainly believe the communities crowd sourced feedback based on real world usage over marketing text on the manufacturers site. At minimum all of the negative feedback should at least make you skeptical.
Why?

There was a Metric Buttload of "Negative Feedback" on the 2016 MBP ALL over the Internet weeks before the first one shipped. And ya know what? People on the internet like to bitch. A lot.

A LOT.
[doublepost=1482707701][/doublepost]
but my results aren't "anecdotal" as I've actually posted screen shots of my results,
LOL!

That's the very definition of "Anectdotal" (face palm)
[doublepost=1482707952][/doublepost]
I'm sure that apple can replicate the results if CR can and thousands of their users . They have countless reports of poor battery life
And countless reports of great battery life.

Now what?
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Apple's obsession with thinness has led to decline in battery. Not everything has to be razor thin.
It's not just Apple. Take a look at ads for the HP Spectre, for example. They look like the original ads for the MacBook Air, minus the envelope. All the camera-angles emphasize thin, thin, thin.

Who can blame Apple for giving the majority of people what they want? After all, do you realize how the ads for the Spectre, etc. would read if the MacBook Pro was twice as thick (or even 1 stinking millimeter thicker) than their offerings?

They are called "Competitors" for a reason.
 
If these devices are meant to be used plugged in,then whats the point in making them thinner.Gaming laptops are meant to be constantly plugged in which is why they are thick.You dont see manufacturer tryng to reduce the weight on those things now do you?
Game laptops are thick because that's what Gamers expect. And because they have big heatsinks and fans. Nothing more.
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right, i think the answer to your question is common sense / usability. If you plan to go to a meetings / fly a lot for work / grab a coffee in starbucks and work on your presentations, then yes, weight and size is key. If what you do is game a lot, then the macs are deffo not something you should throw your money at. Gaming machines are 100% designed and sold for a specific task and use case. These macs are sort of do a lot of things and do them good. Loads of companies out there issue laptops to their employees, not to play games on but to do their work from wherever they can (hotdesking in officers is a real thing). For all those people, size and weight is truly important.
No laptop, desktop or any others thing in the world can perform perfectly under all circumstances. Each buy what works best for them. Were I a gamer, I would certainly look elsewhere. But for what I do, for what pays my bills, the 15"MacBook pro i have is almost perfect.
That is the most perfectly-worded response I have read on here.

Bravo!
 
Does a 5k Display sound like "neglect"?

Does the only laptop that can drive TWO external 4k displays sound like "neglect"?

Does 4 identical, future-proof USB-C/TB3 Ports with 80 Gbps I/O Bandwidth (more than ANY other laptop) that you can use in a wide variety of ways sound like "neglect"?

Does an industry-leading SSD design with nearly THREE TIMES the performance of ANY other SSDs sound like "neglect"?

Does a Unique-in-the-Industry multifunction OLED Touch interface sound like "neglect"?

Does a Best-In-Breed Trackpad nearly the size of an iPad mini sound like "neglect"?

...And ALL of those improvements are since last year's model!

Yeah, it's too bad that the Mac is only receiving more REAL innovations than the rest of the other OEM's laptops COMBINED. It's just being neglected...
Instead of neglect of the MacBook Pro, I think screwed up the update is more appropriate. Let me explain why.

Many have argued that Apple have built it future-proofed, but we live in the present and what we buy have to work well right now too and not just years down the road.

A released product has a series of choices made to deliver a set of (a)features and leave a bunch of them out. Ideally (b)form follows these functions and (c)pricing is set so that consumer can see the value of it. I think Apple screwed up (went too far or not far enough) in all these 3 areas and put the MacBook Pro outside the sweet spot for many Apple fans.

(a) Features
I acknowledge the improvements in display, ssd, usb-c. Not so much for oled touchbar or over-large trackpad. More important than what they added is what they took away from the Pro line - magsafe, usb-a, sd card, and perhaps already gone from last version the sleep indicator light, upgradeable ssd, upgradeable RAM.

Now many would argue donglelife is the solution for this transitional period. I would say what a pain in the backside and clearly breaks the beautiful form in real-world usage (please go find silly pictures of all sorts of dongles clumsily hanging off the MBP when connecting to peripherals).

(b) Form
Well, as mentioned above, the donglelife breaks the form. More importantly for the Pro, the slimmer form sacrifices battery capacity too much. This going too far in form over function has surfaced in batterylifegate thread here.
While all of us appreciate beautiful design, slimmer profile and all that, it has to be counter balanced with loss of functionality. I think many of us would be fine if it is as thin as the previous gen MacBook Pro and we get better battery life in return.

(c) Pricing
The significant increase in price has given many people second thoughts. Firstly, it is outside what we used to pay for a MacBook Pro for a start.

This is where I think Apple has not gone far enough. They could have been more aggressive with the pricing to be closer to previous gen price point. Alternatively, the oled touchbar should be an BTO option so people who don't see the value can opt out.

Anyhow, these are my thoughts. Please carry on with the batterylifegate discussion.
 
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It used to be that Apple PR was proactive, they seem incredibly reactive in 2016, needing to respond and put out fires on their products. While I agree that its probably a software fix, its still egg on Apple's face and it doesn't really help their case in selling laptops.

Given that so many people have reported less then stellar results, why couldn't Apple have uncovered this before rolling it out?
Spoken like someone who has never developed a product.

No amount of lab and alpha/beta testing can hold a candle to releasing a product to a million or so users in a few-weeks' time; especially with the bitch-amplification-factor of Social Media and "tech" Forums; where everyone is an InstaPundit(tm).

Multiply that by the farector that everyone expects every single thing "Designed by Apple in California" to have Cold-Fusion power, Travel Faster-Than-Light, Guess what the User wants and return Spotlight searches even before the Query is made, etc.

So when they release a Laptop that merely has the year-over-year improvements of a 5k Display, the ability to drive two external 4k Displays, an SSD that is something like THREE TIMES faster than the competition, four multifunction, identical Ports with an industry-leading EIGHTY Gbps total of I/O bandwidth, a best-in-breed TrackPad nearly the size of an iPhone 7 Plus, plus a Unique, Multitouch input/display that provides the ability to provide a wide variety of control paradigms without stealing screen-space, InstaPundits yawn and say "Is that all ya got?"

Been happening for a few decades now. But there is no doubt that the Hate and Rudeness of people posting on the internet in general has become far worse in the past few years.

It's just the same ol' b.s., only louder. They'd whine about HP and Dell's offerings, too (and if you dig, you can find that that is actually the case); but, in general, nobody cares about them, so they simply don't get the "column-inches" that every single thing that Apple does, does.
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The battery life is kind of strange... for most times it seem to last about 4h, but 1-2 times it has actually made it up to about 10h (estimate).

Even stranger is the condition it is tested. While i tried today I had no application started and still only around 4h (display brightnes turned down to about 25%). The time i got 10h i was working as normal with web, onenote and such.
Did you think to pop open Activity Monitor to see if there was some random Process pegging the CPU? Nothing else besides prevarication would explain your battery-life figures, sorry.
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I think Apple should just do the following to clear up this mess, and their mess of a notebook lineup:

- Ditch the current MacBook Air line and sell the MacBook as its successor (name it MacBook Air), while more or less matching the old MacBook Air pricing.

- Make the new MacBook Pro the evolutionary version of the current MacBook, name it simply "MacBook" and sell it at MacBook prices (or slightly higher).

- Continue (re-introduce) the 2015 lineup of MacBook Pro, update their internals and display, keep the iconic keyboard and a good selection of ports, and maybe throw in the SG color option. This would be the true Pro laptop, without compromises. Sell it at 2015 MacBook Pro prices (or +100 at most).

It would be a much better balanced lineup, and I bet their laptop business would see a considerable boost. Most of all, there would be a lot of happy customers – which pays more in the long run than the silly profits they now ask for the new MacBook "Pro", while alienating a lot of their customers.
I've got a better idea:

Howabout they just throw in a couple of $3 USB-C to USB-A adapters with the new MBP and tell people to ****?
 
Yep. I'm sure some people get good battery life, but there's been too many stories of bad battery performance for me to take the risk.

Besides, let's not pretend that would be the only reason not to buy it anyway

And yet they're selling like hot cakes. Yup, must suck.
 
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