Phil Schiller Claims Customers Aren't Asking for Built-In Blu-Ray Anymore

[3282868]

If I ripped my own collection on to a HTPC I would still have to hang on to all the originals, however I use Meritline 500 hanging file cases along with storing the disk art in binders, saved a lot of space.

I ripped my Blu-Rays on my 12-Core Mac Pro, used Handbrake (spent ~6 months studying codec's, advanced strings, multiple audio tracks - iDevices default to the first track which must be stereo, the rest DTS/5.1/7.1 Auto-Passthrough and handbrake supports DTS in M4V/MP4 containers for a while now so no need for MKV), and they're fantastic! I setup my Pioneer 50" elite, Samsung 50" LED 3D and compared a Blu-Ray disc to one my my encodes, very little difference. I tossed them after. Although it took a long time (most Blu-Ray Handbrake encodes took 7-8 hours, I let each run overnight), they're about as future proofed as you can get and the advanced strings compressed them to about 8-14 GB's an encode. Copied them to my Synology server with a Mac Mini running Plex, love it.

Apple 1080P's are a joke in comparison. Until the average consumer can get 50Mbps internet, they'll have to be. Until then, while SD DVD's may be fading, Blu-Ray (esp DL 50GB BD's) are essential for me and a lot of others I know.

It's not "night and day" at all. Did you read ArsTechnica's comparison of iTunes 1080p quality vs Blu ray?

One study which many in the industry called into question. Believe me, if you know what you're doing, there is a huge difference. Aside from the picture quality, the lack of DTS and true Blu-Ray sound is a big issue. My Handbrake encodes support DTS and about every audio codec.

 

[nuckinfutz]

I'm noticing the irony of people here talking about ripping Blu-ray discs. The BDA never wanted you to be able to rip BD discs. You're hacking and if you've found a way to get your BD discs ripped you can find a way to get playback on your Mac.

The rest of us that don't give a %^&* can peacefully move on in our lives without some loud rotating POS in our computer.

 

[unlinked]

I believe the "no one asks for it" line is utter ******** too. They make their money via iOS and the iTunes Store, and that's why there's no BD support. It's competition to their bottom line.

People usually stop asking for stuff when it is obvious it is never going to happen.

 

[\-V-/]

I'm noticing the irony of people here talking about ripping Blu-ray discs. The BDA never wanted you to be able to rip BD discs. You're hacking and if you've found a way to get your BD discs ripped you can find a way to get playback on your Mac.

The rest of us that don't give a %^&* can peacefully move on in our lives without some loud rotating POS in our computer.

Someone poop in your cornflakes this morning?

 

[Porco]

they aren't talking about the disks. they are talking the insane licensing fees to support them.

And yet Sony can sell me a full PS3 system (£159) for less than the cheapest iPod Touch costs here (£169, not even the latest gen). So it can't be all that expensive can it?

Clearly it isn't just about the financial cost at all, they just put it in the 'too difficult' box - they can't be bothered supporting it because they think it'd be tricky to implement the DRM stuff in the OS, and they want to push people into using iTunes. It's the classic overreaching, over-controlling side of Apple that even many fans of their products (like me) hate.

I'd have bought a Mac Mini by now as a HTPC if it had a BD drive and official OS-level support for BD movie playback. Would that really be competition to an AppleTV? Are they really in the same price bracket? Would they really compete for the same customers? I doubt it, personally.

Instead I just bought another PS3.

 

[The Bulge]

I'm noticing the irony of people here talking about ripping Blu-ray discs. The BDA never wanted you to be able to rip BD discs. You're hacking and if you've found a way to get your BD discs ripped you can find a way to get playback on your Mac.

The rest of us that don't give a %^&* can peacefully move on in our lives without some loud rotating POS in our computer.

And for that we give our thanks to Apple.

 

[3282868]

I'm noticing the irony of people here talking about ripping Blu-ray discs. The BDA never wanted you to be able to rip BD discs. You're hacking and if you've found a way to get your BD discs ripped you can find a way to get playback on your Mac.

The rest of us that don't give a %^&* can peacefully move on in our lives without some loud rotating POS in our computer.

First of all, it is not illegal. It is if you are pirating copies. Most BD's now don't need to be decrypted.

Secondly, OS X Blu-Ray app's have been available for a long time now; watching a Blu-Ray on a Mac is legal in part due to the industry lessening restrictions (in hope to increase physical media sales).

Lastly, I didn't realize you were the authorities on this matter. From your post history, you seem to have a very "holier-than-thou" attitude towards others whom you may not agree with. It would benefit you to treat others with the same respect and courtesy as you would like to be treated. Your comment serves little purpose other than to disrespect others.

Thank you.

 

[MacStu09]

I'm a bit shocked at how many people here think "cloud" and external hdd storage are a fantastic option? For crucial data, I, as well as most professionals with data worth more than $30k to the company, ALWAYS make physical backups via disc.

Yes, discs can warp and be damaged, but if you take care of them, it's really not likely. I've never had a disc become unreadable in my entire life. Yet I've had numerous hard drive failures, flash data corruption, SSD failures (though only a small amount), and I've had a company lose cloud documents - I don't even know how.

Any person with valuable info will save it to physical...meaning most professionals....also, it's a desktop.

Some people made comments "good, I won't have to hear that horrendous spinning anymore." Well...if you don't use discs anyways...why are you hearing discs spin-up...I mean...well, you get my point...I hope.

 

[dank414]

I'm a customer. I'm not going to demand for one, but it'd be really nice to have one.


One other thing. Opposed to what Apple thinks, lots of folks still don't have the internet throttle speed to download 1080p, so they're stuck with bluray.. hell I'm one of them. My freaking dsl blows (everything I stream online is at 480p or maybe 720p).

 

[nuckinfutz]

Someone poop in your cornflakes this morning?

Froot Loops

And for that we give our thanks to Apple.

Yes thank them for not joining the group that wants to shackle you to a physical disc forever. What happens when your BD disc gets destroyed? You buy another movie. That doesn't happen with a digital file.

First of all, it is not illegal. It is if you are pirating copies. Most BD's now don't need to be decrypted.

Secondly, OS X Blu-Ray app's have been available for a long time now; watching a Blu-Ray on a Mac is legal in part due to the industry lessening restrictions (in hope to increase physical media sales).

Lastly, I didn't realize you were the authorities on this matter. From your post history, you seem to have a very "holier-than-thou" attitude towards others whom you may not agree with. It would benefit you to treat others with the same respect and courtesy as you would like to be treated. Your comment serves little purpose other than to disrespect others.

Thank you.

What you are doing is in fact illegal. Even if you purchased the movie with good ole hard earned cash you are breaking the law every time you rip a movie. The DMCA states, in a nutshell, that breaking any copy protection is unlawful regardless.

http://www.chillingeffects.org/anticircumvention/faq.cgi

Duly noted on my attitude. Note that I'm on your side. I think the DMCA thwarts "Fair Use" doctrines and criminalizes behavior that was once legal (making backup copies of purchased movies)

I think Apple should stay clear of Blu-ray. It has little utility to people with computer needs and from Schiller's comments the majority of consumers agree.

 

[3282868]

I'd have bought a Mac Mini by now as a HTPC if it had a BD drive and official OS-level support for BD movie playback. Would that really be competition to an AppleTV? Are they really in the same price bracket? Would they really compete for the same customers? I doubt it, personally.

Instead I just bought another PS3.

Do it, I got a Mac Mini with a Synology server and a BD player as there are great app's that play BD's in OS X.

MacGo's Blu-Ray Player is the best I've used out of about 4-5 I tried. Highly recommend, no issues with any Blu-Ray's I've used (got an external LG 3D Blu-Ray drive for about $89 at BestBuy, probably cheaper now, also has Lightscribe).

http://www.macblurayplayer.com

 

[janstett]

understand this. the future is in the cloud and the winner will be the one who got all the control in the mobility business. Not Apple, I mean Everyone. Google, Amazon... you name it. Cloud are spreading all over, light devices are going to arrive sooner than what we can expect. Apple is leading the technology industry not in devices this time but in service delivery. This generation is more comfortable downloading than grabbing an item.

Truth -- the only ones who own the whole chain end-to-end

 

[likemyorbs]

I guess if it's good enough for you, it must be good enough for everyone.

All respect intended; I hate that attitude.

When did I say it's good enough for everyone? I know some people prefer bluray, and so there are plenty of options for them on the market if they absolutely must have it built into their computer. I'm just explaining why I'm in the majority of consumers that doesn't want it. I don't need an optical drive wasting precious space in my computer, if you want it buy it separately. But shipping it standard when most people will never use it is not good business.

 

[lordofthereef]

I don't have a bluray player in my house at all. Bluray movies are overpriced and inconvenient. I much prefer netflix streaming. The image quality is sharp enough for me.

Overpriced? Sure if you get the limited collectors edition at launch. I have over 200 movies and paid an average of $8-10 a piece on them. Netflix is great, I use that too, but it's far from the be all end all due to their limited collection. Star Wars, lord of the rings, Bourne, are a few of the series off the top of my head that I haven't ever seen on a streaming option.

 

[janstett]

This thread will probably fade away like the rest and someone should refresh it in 5 years when dvd and blu-rays are basically gone.

and/or the Mac as we know it today is basically gone, replaced with oversized iDevices

 

[nuckinfutz]

I'm a bit shocked at how many people here think "cloud" and external hdd storage are a fantastic option? For crucial data, I, as well as most professionals with data worth more than $30k to the company, ALWAYS make physical backups via disc.

Yes, discs can warp and be damaged, but if you take care of them, it's really not likely. I've never had a disc become unreadable in my entire life. Yet I've had numerous hard drive failures, flash data corruption, SSD failures (though only a small amount), and I've had a company lose cloud documents - I don't even know how.

Any person with valuable info will save it to physical...meaning most professionals....also, it's a desktop.

Some people made comments "good, I won't have to hear that horrendous spinning anymore." Well...if you don't use discs anyways...why are you hearing discs spin-up...I mean...well, you get my point...I hope.

Discs are slow.

For a consumer ODD make ok sense for backup (even though I think cloud backup is still a better solution) but for a small, medium business tape still make the most financial sense. It's hard to beat the price per GB of a LTO-4 cart.

I've watched optical vendors promise the world (any old beards remember the Pinnacle Micro Apex drive "Put a fork in your hard drive" lol) but they've simply never been able to scale to match HDD. Remember when everyone was talking about Holographic discs?

 

[lordofthereef]

I think Apple should stay clear of Blu-ray. It has little utility to people with computer needs and from Schiller's comments the majority of consumers agree.

Apple has become incredibly adept at telling consumers what they want. They tell you you don't want bluray. You stop asking for it. They report you are no longer asking for it. This sort of things seems to have been true, with a few exceptions, such as mms, over the years.

It's also interesting to hear apple say they don't make decisions based on consumers requests when it's in their favor. Now that it is in their favor that consumers are no longer requesting it, they make sure to point that out. Clever marketers indeed. That's one thing I will always admit they are leaps and bounds ahead of the competition with.

----------

I'm a customer. I'm not going to demand for one, but it'd be really nice to have one.


One other thing. Opposed to what Apple thinks, lots of folks still don't have the internet throttle speed to download 1080p, so they're stuck with bluray.. hell I'm one of them. My freaking dsl blows (everything I stream online is at 480p or maybe 720p).

Most consumers will probably find 720p streaming to be good enough. Admittedly I can't tell much of a difference between that and 1080p. Where bluray shines is the audio. It always shocks me to see so many people bragging about their high end tv, computer, etc and then using built in audio (to be clear I am making no assumptions about any one poster here, merely posting my observations). I don't consider myself an audiophile, though I do have what I consider a nice surround system. The difference between steamed content versus a bluray is night and day when it comes to audio. It is almost as staggering as when we made the jump from sd to hd.

 

[robanga]

When did I say it's good enough for everyone? I know some people prefer bluray, and so there are plenty of options for them on the market if they absolutely must have it built into their computer. I'm just explaining why I'm in the majority of consumers that doesn't want it. I don't need an optical drive wasting precious space in my computer, if you want it buy it separately. But shipping it standard when most people will never use it is not good business.

That is the way i see it for those that love their disks is to buy a third party solution for their mac or buy a Windows PC that still has one, or better yet buy an actual BR player that is at home in your A/V cabinet. Unless you are like in a dorm situation who actually watches movies on small screens? Yes i get the travel thing but carrying disks around to travel?

Next, who actually connects their whiz bang HP Envy (love that product name) 14578X laptop via HDMI to their 55" TV? I've seen one person do this sort of thing one time, when they wanted to show vacation pix.

 

[3282868]

Apple has become incredibly adept at telling consumers what they want. They tell you you don't want bluray. You stop asking for it. They report you are no longer asking for it. This sort of things seems to have been true, with a few exceptions, such as mms, over the years.

It's also interesting to hear apple say they don't make decisions based on consumers requests when it's in their favor. Now that it is in their favor that consumers are no longer requesting it, they make sure to point that out. Clever marketers indeed. That's one thing I will always admit they are leaps and bounds ahead of the competition with.

True of their professional market. Neglect the Mac Pro, Pro-Apps (let's be honest, FCPX - even with the latest "big" update - is nothing compared to 7, Avid, Premiere Pro), even drop a dedicated display lineup for one stripped down 27" iMac LED, then claim "See! It's a dying, niche market! No one is buying Mac Pro's!"

It may not be as large a market as cheaper ARM devices and such, but PowerMac's and their CCFL LCD's were top notch and highly regarded. Sure, make billions from selling large amounts of consumer level products and iTunes eco-system purchases, but there IS a market for professional power systems, there IS a need. Now, most have moved on as Apple seems to believe what's best for the consumer. Shame.

 

[boazjoe]

Yeah, no one cares anymore about taking video of their kids, vacations,
etc..I know cause Apple told me and I am an Apple Cult member and I believe everything because I cannot think for myself anymore.

Agreed. Family memories are SO over-rated. Oh, not only do I think so, so do my childrens' grandparents. Why, just the other day they were mentioning that they didn't want any more videos in the mail of their children playing. Too 1900's. They would rather just see a school picture, instead.

Been waiting two years for USB 3 on an iMac and we get this crap.

 

[scoobydoo99]

Looks like some are STILL telling other people what they do and don't need. Why do you care if someone wants to use an optical disc?

You're still not getting it. I DON'T care what others want, need, or have. If you want to use a pencil, paper, and snail mail to communicate - have at it! I'm commenting on the overall marketplace in general and trends in methods of consumption/storage. Streaming and cloud storage are the future. Physical discs will die a slow death. Nothing's going to change that. Apple is just a bit ahead of the curve in removing optical drives from their products. Most users don't ever use them. Why should we all carry around extra weight/expense for something we'll never use just because some techno-dinosaurs whine about wanting old-fashioned storage media?

 

[nuckinfutz]

Unfilled promises

I'd say us disc buying consumers are more sheep than an Apple fan every was. My reasoning is this.

Every disc format that has been trotted out with grandiose claims that pretty much went unfulfilled. Look at Blu-ray today and ask yourself what benefits does it offer over DVD? Yes sure it has higher quality audio and video but remember Blu-ray is a format that should last a decade or more. What areas did they blaze new trails with?

Mandatory Managed Copy - Read the text folks. You were supposed to be able to purchase a Blu-ray movie and get some form of managed copy. This would have given you the ability to have a digital version on a server or mobile device and beyond. It was supposed to be "mandatory" but what we have today is a BD movie for $20 and if you want to pay more money we'll toss in a digital copy. The studios are essentially making consumers pay extra for what they promised would be available in the beginning.

BD-Live - This was supposed to be the most forward leaning of features. It was going to take the physical disc and marrying it in perfect synchronization with web content. You'd be able to watch movies in sync with others and comment or view special Director data all updated from a web server. Early Blu-ray players even had hard drives to host Managed Copy files and BD-Live content.

Where are these two technologies today? Mothballed. The BDA sold you a bill of goods and then famously overpromised and undelivered. And now some of you fools beg for the truncated, the castrated version of Blu-ray. Stop being sheep. The sooner we get rid of this Blu-ray debacle the better we can move forward with real technology. That's going to be digital folks sans any stupid polycarbonate disc.

 

[janstett]

Yes thank them for not joining the group that wants to shackle you to a physical disc forever. What happens when your BD disc gets destroyed? You buy another movie. That doesn't happen with a digital file.

No, what happens with a digital file is the company hosting it goes out of business, or your account gets suspended, or the rights holder pulls the plug, or you have exceeded the number of devices authorized, or your account is terminated because you bought a bogus iTunes gift card on eBay.

To say nothing of the less extreme cases, such as your internet service being down.

See, you NEVER "own" anything you bought that way.

 

[Menneisyys2]

Welcome to the Pirate Club.

Well, actually, disabling HDCP won't help pirates as it has nothing to do with cracking the DRM to make the disc copyable / rippable.

Mind you: HDCP is indeed a real PITA for a lot of legit users without a HDCP-compliant TV set or adapter (should you need to convert the HDMI signal to, say, VGA or RGB).

 

[robanga]

I'd say us disc buying consumers are more sheep than an Apple fan every was. My reasoning is this.

Every disc format that has been trotted out with grandiose claims that pretty much went unfulfilled. Look at Blu-ray today and ask yourself what benefits does it offer over DVD? Yes sure it has higher quality audio and video but remember Blu-ray is a format that should last a decade or more. What areas did they blaze new trails with?

Where are these two technologies today? Mothballed. The BDA sold you a bill of goods and then famously overpromised and undelivered. And now some of you fools beg for the truncated, the castrated version of Blu-ray. Stop being sheep. The sooner we get rid of this Blu-ray debacle the better we can move forward with real technology. That's going to be digital folks sans any stupid polycarbonate disc.

Exactly true. Sales of the format have been lagging so i suppose somewhere that is used an excuse for not living up to the format's promises. But then again if you deliver maybe their would be more sales. Digital downloads trumped the higher quality, lower user friendly experience. This happened in the world of digital music as well.