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On hindsight, I actually appreciate compressed audio and video if that means I can store 10000 CDs/DVDs/Blu-ray worth of content in a big harddrive...

Now looking at my hundreds of CDs and DVDs and Bluray gathering dust that I can't be bothered going through them again.

They belong in a garage sale soon or they will all end up in the trash bin eventually.

If you are more than happy with a lower quality of product for the convenience factor then that's fine.

However, remember you do NOW have the choice and luxury of being able to choose to give your current CD's and BluRay movies away to friends/family or to sell them to others to get money back for other things.

A think you cannot do with the media you are paying (perhaps the same price for) online. It has no value you can ever recoup and you can't even officially give it away to family either.
 
The fact that you can't see the evidence here is telling about how you think. He is a liar, because Blu-ray is here, now, today and into quite a few tomorrows, whether you like it or not. Apple wants to force their consumers into their money-removal system, where all media is lower quality and rented for a fee, or purchased digitally for a larger fee. There is no disputing that. Blu-ray threatens that revenue, and Apple wants to make maximum profits. The argument of being held back is for suckers. Spinning media is cheaper, and only a fool would believe that living in tomorrow while ignoring realities of today is best. The way it *really* works is that new tech moves in slowly, phasing in as older tech phases out with the realities of cost and acceptance.

If new tech was going to be forced upon people, I wish it was renewable energy, not some gadget for consuming media. Force us to stop using oil, not waste time in new ways with lousy-looking media. Or, if you're going to force the end of Blu-ray, at least have something that looks and sounds as good or better, not just say, "Oh, it will be better later." Screw that. The best is here today, and it's Blu-ray. When something is better for the same price or less, it will take over at that time.

The fact that ODD is gone from most Apple devices is very warming and pleasant.
 
And I guess all of you don't have a decent AVR, let alone a decent speaker system. If you ever heard a Blu-Ray DTS HD Master over a decent home theater (which btw is specced up to 10MBit/s stream for audio) you wouldn't talk this stuff out of your backs.

Do I need a Mac as HTPC? Sure as hell not, because I actually own a lot of Blu-Rays and some of them (those Live Concert Blus) are a real joy to watch over and over again.

You're preaching to deaf ears here my friend. I agree with you.

These fanboys have never owned a set of Klipsch Cornwall, La Scala or Heresy for surround sound. It would blown their little perceptions of audio and video away.

They are used to cheap little speakers on a cheap little screen.

Keep your 240P, 320P... I'll take 1080P at 45Mb/s
 
The fact that ODD is gone from most Apple devices is very warming and pleasant.

Indeed.

Had a friend with Lion that wanted to erase his HDD before selling his Mac. The "old school" way would have been to boot from the OS disc and then run disk utilities and erase the computer.

Now with Lion and Mtn Lion we just booted from the Recovery Partition and did the same thing without the need for optical disc. This made the process like 4 times faster. I just do not miss crappy optical discs anymore with regard to computing.

I have no problem with Blu-ray as an acceptable movie distribution format other than the lack of follow through on the features that were forward leaning (Managed Copy, BD-Live)
 
Some company should come up with a few good industrial designers and and a Linux team and make incredibly nice but expensive PC's so "Pro" users can feel unique again. (or Superior, depending on your opinion). They could load up every drive, format, codec etc. etc.

I'm really serious there is a business model in that.

The problem though, is the software. Most of the applications are not running on Linux. ...Hey there is another business model.

You may jest (I can't tell how much) but I can see a day when serious Pros will indeed jump from OS X and Windows to an OS like Linux. Apple are focusing more and more on consumers and Microsoft are looking at Apple's income and thinking they want a bigger slice than they currently get.

I seriously think DRM, dumbing down of software and the over milking of customers will drive more people towards open source. Not everyone, but it's something that gets more attractive to me as time goes by.
 
Because people make a their living using this techno-dinosaur technology. Sounds like you need to go to the gym if you are having trouble carrying an optical drive.

It's a good thing for those people that Apple sells an external optical drive. And Blu-Ray drives are available from third parties.

When it comes to having the drive INSIDE the computer case as standard equipment, we're in the realm of personal preference. I prefer it as an extern option that I can leave behind when I don't need it, or easily attach when I do need it.
 
If you are more than happy with a lower quality of product for the convenience factor then that's fine.

However, remember you do NOW have the choice and luxury of being able to choose to give your current CD's and BluRay movies away to friends/family or to sell them to others to get money back for other things.

A think you cannot do with the media you are paying (perhaps the same price for) online. It has no value you can ever recoup and you can't even officially give it away to family either.

Which of course is why the studios and sales channels like Apple and Amazon love downloads and DRM so much.
 
So I need to buy a $1,000 display to get a docking station?

Dell welcomes you with arms wide open. Be my guest.

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Indeed.

Had a friend with Lion that wanted to erase his HDD before selling his Mac. The "old school" way would have been to boot from the OS disc and then run disk utilities and erase the computer.

Now with Lion and Mtn Lion we just booted from the Recovery Partition and did the same thing without the need for optical disc. This made the process like 4 times faster. I just do not miss crappy optical discs anymore with regard to computing.

I have no problem with Blu-ray as an acceptable movie distribution format other than the lack of follow through on the features that were forward leaning (Managed Copy, BD-Live)

Only optical media in my house are two dvd discs, one is Snow Leopard and the other one is iLife.
 
So I need to buy a $1,000 display to get a docking station?

No, but remember your thesis seemed to be that people don't know to ask for a product unless i'm mistaken. People aren't asking for blu-ray in Macs in large enough numbers to matter and that's not because they are ignorant but rather they just don't care.
 
i buy all my movies on Blu-ray. love it. bite me Phil.

Sure, but that doesn't mean you want/need it on your computer necessarily. I like having a blu-ray player connected to my TV, but the only reason I would want one for my computer would be to rip them... And if I decide to do that, I'd rather have the option to buy an external drive than have one automatically included that I'd probably never use.
 
Things are very simple. It is what it is. If you like it and need it go and buy it. If you don't and it's unsatisfactory for some reason go and find an alternative, plenty of those. Problem solved. Peace and joy. Everyone is happy.
 
You may jest (I can't tell how much) but I can see a day when serious Pros will indeed jump from OS X and Windows to an OS like Linux. Apple are focusing more and more on consumers and Microsoft are looking at Apple's income and thinking they want a bigger slice than they currently get.

I seriously think DRM, dumbing down of software and the over milking of customers will drive more people towards open source. Not everyone, but it's something that gets more attractive to me as time goes by.

I think the time for Linux to break out as a serious alternative to Windows or OS X for "Pros" has already come and gone.

Pros do use Linux as an alternative to other Unix brands for servers, but the audience for Linux as a desktop OS seems to be dedicated hobbyists.
 
My next purchase is going to be an external Blu-Ray burner for my Macbook. Recording home videos in full HD fills up even large hard drives in no time at all. This is even worse with the current trend of tiny SSD's in the latest computers and tablets.

It's also not very convenient to give your friends and family a hard drive, so they can watch your home movies. Especially if the drive is HFS formatted and you are giving it to someone with a PC.

What you need is a standardised way of packaging video, that's easy for anyone to use... like blu-ray.

There is youtube etc, but the quality is terrible even in HD and until everyone has high speed fibre broadband, it just isn't up to the job.

If Apple wants to sell me a computer without an optical drive, then they should make the minimum SSD size at least 256GB on the base model. iPhones and iPads should be minimum 32GB by now. These chips are cheap at last, but for some reason Apple insist on ripping people off.

I understand why Apple might not want to include Blu-ray drives in their computers, but they should offer their own external drive, or at least better support for them in the OS.
 
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I think the time for Linux to break out as a serious alternative to Windows or OS X for "Pros" has already come and gone.

Pros do use Linux as an alternative to other Unix brands for servers, but the audience for Linux as a desktop OS seems to be dedicated hobbyists.

Linux has had over a decade to prove it could do something beyond the server room and has utterly failed. Next!
 
If you are more than happy with a lower quality of product for the convenience factor then that's fine.

However, remember you do NOW have the choice and luxury of being able to choose to give your current CD's and BluRay movies away to friends/family or to sell them to others to get money back for other things.

A think you cannot do with the media you are paying (perhaps the same price for) online. It has no value you can ever recoup and you can't even officially give it away to family either.

Excellent points....So basically with "cloud" content you never have ALL aspects of ownership...Imagine not having control over your own personal home movies.
 
It's spin, but it works for myself and all my friends and family. Not a single one of us use CD or Blu-ray and appreciate Apple not forcing us ALL to have one. I do not want to be forced pay an extra $100 for a blu-ray player I won't use in a fatter laptop/desktop.

If you want it, quit crying, buy an external one.

Well you did not save that $100 either and the Macrumors forum of what 10,000 - 20,000 people doesn't account for the whole USA yet some here will insist it does.
 
*You* can "pretty much" guarantee it? Ok good. Great. If I have issues in the next half-century finding a Blu-Ray compatible drive that will work with a then-modern computer, I should come find *you* and you'll take care of it? I should only have 3-4 exabytes of data for you to recover by then.

Let me give you a few exercises so you can demonstrate the quality of your 'guarantee'.
  1. Find me a cassette drive so that I can pull some software for an Apple II from it.
  2. Find me a working 8" floppy drive that I can plug into my system.
  3. Find me a punch-card reader that will interface with a Windows 8 laptop.
  4. Now find me some software that will run on my computer (under either OS X 10.8 or Windows 7, your choice) that will allow me to read and recover the data I have stored in a Microsoft Works word processor file from 1993.

The difference between those and optical disks is that those older formats didn't go away until there was a clearly superior removable media standard to the older format which supplanted it. Punch cards were replaced by floppies. Cassettes were replaced by the CD. Floppies were replaced by recordable CDs.

And in each case, it took 15 - 20 years from the time the superior removable media standard came out for it to supplant the older standard. And compatible hardware remained (and still remains) available for the most popular of those standards for many many years later. I can still buy a 3 1/2" floppy drive today that'll work on a modern Mac. That's a 30+ year old tech, which has been obsolete for over a decade now.

Now, CDs, despite the advent of DVD and Blu-Ray, managed to keep a strong showing, because a conscious decision was made to use the SAME physical shape for the newer formats. So while few people still make CD-Rs, they effectively piggy back on newer formats like Blu-Ray and will be supported as long as those newer formats.

Add to that the fact that there is a HUGE volume of media being produced today on CD, DVD, and Blu-Ray, both commercially and by individuals and companies. There's no real sign that this is going to stop any time in the next decade at least. And there's NO sign right now of anyone coming out with a new removable media format which is superior to any of those without being backwards compatible.

(No - I don't count cloud storage as a workable replacement - although it has a lot of uses of it's own. It's a different sort of storage, but not really a competitor for removable media...)

If there were such a format on the market today, I'd be willing to say that Blu-ray's days are numbered - 15-20 years from today people might not be using them anymore. And maybe 30 years from now it might become hard to find a Blu-Ray drive.

But there isn't, and the odds are just as good that the next physical media format will decide to use the same disk format as CDs/DVDs/Blu-Rays for backwards compatibility. If that happens, there's no reason we shouldn't be able to read Blu-rays for many decades to come.

These are the issues with what most people think of as 'long-term' archives. Changes to undocumented formats, changes to hardware so profound that you've got to chain 3 or more adapters in order to allow you to plug it in, and that doesn't even guarantee it'll actually do the job at that point. And I'm not even talking about spans of time as long as the life-spans claimed by 'archival quality' optical media today. (Most notably because we weren't using electronic, or even electromechanical, computers yet that long ago.)

The fact of the matter is you *can't* guarantee it. You can't even guarantee that the 'archival quality' disc will last more than a decade. In practice, many 'archival quality' CD-Rs, with manufacturer estimated life spans of 50+ years, failed inside of 10 years despite being stored according to the manufacturer's recommendations. Burnable DVDs are a bit better, but still have the same root issue. Why? Because those life spans are estimated (based on standard tests, yes, but those test give numbers that cannot be verified, because even *pressed* CDs haven't been around long verify a life-span that long). Even 'archival quality' discs commonly have an *unburned* shelf-life of 5-10 years, even the *best* 'archival quality' discs have dyes which will degrade in less than a month of exposure to sunlight.

No, you can't guarantee that *any* individual instance of media will last as long as its manufacturer claims, but no optical media labeled 'archival quality' by it's manufacturer has lived up to those claims in practice yet. (As you said, CD-Rs, one of the earliest wide-spread writable optical formats, are less than 30 years old, and the manufacturers claim terms longer than that for their life spans, though quite a large number of those discs have since failed.) Pressed discs, I'd give decent odds on that front, but pressed discs aren't used or archives. They're used for mass reproduction of the same data on thousands or millions of blanks.

Even with proper storage, the National Archives site recommends that you test your optical archive media "at least every two years to assure your records are still readable", presumably so you can catch the 'bit-rot' in the dyes before it exceeds the capabilities of the format's error correction measures. And this is in their FAQ on how to deal with storing *Temporary Records*.

Professional archival groups are busy looking for *actual* long-term storage solutions, because none of what we have now actually fit the bill.

You think I'm unaware of these things? I've been dealing with archival issues for 30 years - I know all of the issues with them. It doesn't change the fact that right now (and for at least the last decade), there is simply no more effective archival media out there for your average small company than optical media. DVDs are still the most cost effective, but Blu-rays are quickly getting to the point where they'll eclipse them. I've already had to deal with clients who mistakenly believed that external hard drives were acceptable for archives - they simply fail WAY too easily, and often in only 3-4 years. And don't get me started on Flash Drives...

(And you think the long term support issues for Blu-rays is a problem? That's a *trivial* problem compared to long term support issues for hardware interface formats. SCSI and Wide-SCSI are already nearly impossible to find, and even IDE/ATA is starting to become pretty difficult. Hardware interface formats always thresh faster than removable media because removable media drives can always be made foe new hardware interfaces. That said, I'll predict USB lasts at least 20-30 years as well for much the same reason CDs/DVDs/Blu-rays will be around that long - but I'm less optimistic right now about the long term for Firewire, SATA, or Thunderbolt...)

If you're a big company with a lot of funding, there are other solutions, but for smaller companies, stick with optical disks.

FWIW, the vast majority of archive quality disks seem to hold their data pretty well. I've recently recovered data off of 20 year old CD-Rs with no issues whatsoever. Yes, the National Archives suggests testing regularly, and I agree - no matter WHAT storage medium you use. I also strongly recommend triple or better redundancy on archiving anything remotely important - and storing them in different locations. Because no media is 100% foolproof, and no storage is 100% disaster proof.
 
Indeed.

Had a friend with Lion that wanted to erase his HDD before selling his Mac. The "old school" way would have been to boot from the OS disc and then run disk utilities and erase the computer.

Now with Lion and Mtn Lion we just booted from the Recovery Partition and did the same thing without the need for optical disc. This made the process like 4 times faster. I just do not miss crappy optical discs anymore with regard to computing.

I have no problem with Blu-ray as an acceptable movie distribution format other than the lack of follow through on the features that were forward leaning (Managed Copy, BD-Live)

What if you installed a new hard drive that didn't have a recovery partition? What would you boot off?
 
It is funny that they posted that picture of Phil with the iMac because if you watch the keynote you will notice when he turns the iMac for the audience he is very careful exactly how far he turns it so they couldn't see the big bulge on the back.
 
You're still not getting it. I DON'T care what others want, need, or have. If you want to use a pencil, paper, and snail mail to communicate - have at it! I'm commenting on the overall marketplace in general and trends in methods of consumption/storage. Streaming and cloud storage are the future. Physical discs will die a slow death. Nothing's going to change that. Apple is just a bit ahead of the curve in removing optical drives from their products. Most users don't ever use them. Why should we all carry around extra weight/expense for something we'll never use just because some techno-dinosaurs whine about wanting old-fashioned storage media?

Let me guess, your large latte weighs more than the weight Apple spared you now from their lineup or do you carry around an iMac, MBP at the same time?

When you limit ones choice trends change because there is a removal or lack of thus what is left is sometimes crap, simple. I can change a trend by starting some BS and giving only the options I wish to offer thus making your choice not so great so you will follow my lead. I did this for a paper in college and people who don't know will always follow a calm strong lead even into a wall if the wall looks soft enough :cool:
 
Bring Back Optical Drives

I've yet to hear anyone ask for a thinner or lighter iMac either... :rolleyes:

I have heard people asking for cooler and quieter iMacs and for iMacs with desktop CPUs & GPUs. ;)

I think Apple is making it very clear, it wants it's customers to download all their software (and back it up) via the cloud. Or more specifically Apples ****ing cloud.
 
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