Phil Schiller comparing iPad Mini to Nexus 7

[VandyChem2009]

Comparing a $199 table to a $329 tablet is like comparing a Kia to a Corvette. Yeah some people are going to like the gas economy and the cheapness of the Kia but what they want is the speed and sleekness of the Corvette. Or simply put you really can't compare apples to oranges.

 

[darngooddesign]

I shouldn't have to use my data plan or tether a device for GPS.

Tethering for the GPS doesn't necessarily use any data, but I do agree that the Wifi pad should have GPS.

you don't NEED a wifi to get a GPS signal with AGPS.

He's saying that the WiFi Nexus has GPS, so you can download all the map data while on WiFi and then use the GPS and map while away from WiFi.

While I agree with the mini's aspect ratio, however the same points he was made could be applied to the iPhone 5. Hmmm.

FWIW I think Apple should have increased the size of the iPhone 5 while keeping the same aspect ratio; however, you are more likely to use the iPhone most in portrait which isn't true for the ipad.

Comparing at $199 table to a $329 tablet is like comparing a Kia to a Corvette...

I think the iPad is $150 better than the Nexus, not $300 better.

 

[xofruitcake]

About the sales of the Galaxy S3.. from it's release until the day the iPhone 5 was released.. the S3 was beating the 4S in sales.. so not really a "niche" market. Beating the iPhone in sales is HUGE. Trust me though, I agree.. I prefer the 4:3 aspect ratio to the 16:10. But Phil was very misleading. The Nexus 7 has great build quality. He stated it was made of plastic.. only a small portion is made of plastic and it is not even noticeable. The front is glass, and the back is rubber.. however the rubber literally feels like leather.

S3 sold about 20m unit in the first 100 days (before Iphone 5 launch) and Samsung think that they can sell another 10m before end of the year. And then on to the next galaxy device. So the life time sales for S3 is about 30m units.. And Apple sold 37m Iphone 4S in 4Q11 and the ilfe time sales is around 120m+.. You be the judge as to whether S3 is s niche market... My point is that S3 design trade off to squeeze bigger screen into a smartphone work for only a portion of the customers. Most customers still want to put their smartphone in their pocket and don't look ridiculous when answer a call.. And there is always the ecosystem difference. And don't forget the price difference

http://www.zdnet.com/samsung-galaxy-s-iii-sales-hit-20-million-in-100-days-7000003819/

 

[zhenya]

you have to see the pictures to make that decision.. These two comparison pictures did it for me as far as app experience and web surfing experience go. The early hand on review seems to indicate the image is pretty sharp on Ipad mini with the lower resolution. Superior spec does not translate in superior experience, it seems. And the build quality go to Ipad mini with the early hand on review (aluminum vs plastic)..

The problem is that the picture of the webpage doesn't represent reality. The Nexus may have a physically smaller screen, but it has more overall pixels in either orientation. You should be seeing MORE of the webpage on the Nexus than on the iPad mini. I don't think they are doing any scaling to increase sharpness on the Nexus, so that was just completely misleading on Apple's part.

 

[fizzwinkus]

Oh really? I missed that, if so, good on Apple! Is it true GPS, or wifi assisted, if wifi assisted its a fail.

comments like this are priceless and need to be repeated.

 

[Southernboyj]

S3 sold about 20m unit in the first 100 days (before Iphone 5 launch) and Samsung think that they can sell another 10m before end of the year. And then on to the next galaxy device. So the life time sales for S3 is about 30m units.. And Apple sold 37m Iphone 4S in 4Q11 and the ilfe time sales is around 120m+.. You be the judge as to whether S3 is s niche market... My point is that S3 design trade off to squeeze bigger screen into a smartphone work for only a portion of the customers. Most customers still want to put their smartphone in their pocket and don't look ridiculous when answer a call.. And there is always the ecosystem difference. And don't forget the price difference

http://www.zdnet.com/samsung-galaxy-s-iii-sales-hit-20-million-in-100-days-7000003819/

I'd say over its lifetime, the S3 will sell around 40Million units.. that isn't Apple tier, but that isn't "niche". A "niche" market was tablets before the iPad. The S3 is the best selling smartphone besides the iPhone. I don't feel the S3 is too big, it feels fine in my hand and I'm an iPhone 5 owner.

 

[xofruitcake]

The problem is that the picture of the webpage doesn't represent reality. The Nexus may have a physically smaller screen, but it has more overall pixels in either orientation. You should be seeing MORE of the webpage on the Nexus than on the iPad mini. I don't think they are doing any scaling to increase sharpness on the Nexus, so that was just completely misleading on Apple's part.

But now that Apple raise the issue, everyone will look for it and see for themselves. I know my Samsung Infuse is useless when I surf the web in landscape mode and I can buy into the fact a 4:3 ratio in landscape mode will beat a 16:9 in term of viewable webpage real estate. And when the 4:3 ratio one is the bigger size tablet, it doesn't take a genius to figure that Ipad mini should show more of the webpage. And that is the reason Phil Schiller did the demo. Like it or not, it shows the strength of Ipad mini. Google should find some way to demonstrate their superiority on the resolution. That is the nature of marketing. And notice every review of the Ipad mini cite the difference in webpage viewable statistic that Phil Schiller presented. I think he did his job. Now it is up to Google to find holes in Ipad mini to make it stick into customer mindshare..

 

[firewood]

Yet the Nexus has a better screen, more RAM, is Quad core, and less $$$$$. Dumb tablet to compare it to.

Opposite. A great comparison.

I have a Nexus 7. The specs don't make it a better product. Not only are there less tablet apps for it, but a noticeably higher percentage of them are ugly compared to iOS apps. And a nice screen makes ugly apps even uglier.

I'm ordering an iPad Mini.

 

[rrl]

But now that Apple raise the issue, everyone will look for it and see for themselves. I know my Samsung Infuse is useless when I surf the web in landscape mode and I can buy into the fact a 4:3 ratio in landscape mode will beat a 16:9 in term of viewable webpage real estate. And when the 4:3 ratio one is the bigger size tablet, it doesn't take a genius to figure that Ipad mini should show more of the webpage. And that is the reason Phil Schiller did the demo. Like it or not, it shows the strength of Ipad mini. Google should find some way to demonstrate their superiority on the resolution. That is the nature of marketing. And notice every review of the Ipad mini cite the difference in webpage viewable statistic that Phil Schiller presented. I think he did his job. Now it is up to Google to find holes in Ipad mini to make it stick into customer mindshare..

Only in the Apple universe is 800 < 768. The demo was a scam. What's funny is if he did that same demo at apple.com he would have failed. If you can do math and you understand display/web typography, this page can help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_(typography)

 

[LizKat]

Did anybody else think Phil Schiller looked like a prick when he compared the two?

Yes. His disdain for the inferior and utterly fetid Nexus 7 was apparent. As he ravished the rather pedestrian and incomplete Android tablet applications I could hear eerie music in my head as if the Nexus 7 was about to meet its grisly demise and I was a willing spectator for the debauchery.

Go, Phil! He ambled on out out there, picked the mini up for a knife and cleaned the Nexus like it was a sunfish.

 

[gmanist1000]

I own the Nexus 7 and I can tell that the display is nowhere Apple quality. The price is something that wins from the iPad mini, but you get plastic build quality.

Moreover, Quad Core doesnt mean its better at doing everyday task. I believe the mini is fast enough for our everyday use.


Im getting the mini and ditching the Nexus soon.

I had the Nexus 7 for a while, it was okay. I can't wait to get my Mini though!

 

[tylerdurden500]

Good enough review

 

[ReValveiT]

The mini has AGPS.

The data version does. Costly extra that GPS.

 

[zhenya]

Only in the Apple universe is 800 < 768. The demo was a scam. What's funny is if he did that same demo at apple.com he would have failed. If you can do math and you understand display/web typography, this page can help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_(typography)

As I looked a little deeper into this I found out what actually happened. The pictures from the keynote were fairly realistic, with the exception that they did not put the Nexus in full screen mode which it does support natively.

The reason the Nexus doesn't show as much as the Mini is that it does not do 1:1 pixel mapping, meaning it has 961x600 density independent pixels - that makes the content a little bit sharper (ignoring the fact that this screen is an unusual pixel density, causing some elements to be scaled up from phone apps, some to be scaled down from tablet apps). Anyhow, the reality is the Mini does show more content than the Nexus 7.

We discussed this further in this thread. https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=16136463#post16136463

 

[xofruitcake]

Only in the Apple universe is 800 < 768. The demo was a scam. What's funny is if he did that same demo at apple.com he would have failed. If you can do math and you understand display/web typography, this page can help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_(typography)

They have picture to demo that and all the reviews that I read so far confirm that.. It is either a scam in your mind only or everyone else is delusional. You seems to forget that Ipad is 7.85 inches tablet while Nexus 7 is a 7 inches tablet. Just the size difference already account for a big part of the viewable webpage size difference and when you throw in 16:9 vs 4:3 ratio, the viewable webpage difference should be hugh. Phil Schiller played up the two card that Ipad mini has against all 7 inches tablet (the number of apps and viewable webpage difference) and he used the launch event to do it. And every reviewers bit on the bait and now it is going on all the TV broadcasting as well. So every buyers will look at this as a factor of making their buying decision. Schiller is doing his job. So what will Google marketing director do? I bet they will show pictures that look better on Nexus 7 when compare to an Ipad 2. And that is nothing wrong with it. It is the nature of marketing, play up your strength and talk about he weakness of your competitor. It is good that Apple take Nexus seriously. And Google should be happy that Nexus 7 is Apple's target. The only question which tablet will sell more in this Christmas season.

 

[zhenya]

You seems to forget that Ipad is 7.85 inches tablet while Nexus 7 is a 7 inches tablet. Just the size difference already account for a big part of the viewable webpage size difference and when you throw in 16:9 vs 4:3 ratio, the viewable webpage difference should be hugh.

Physical screen size has nothing to do with it.

 

[Byeen]

This comparison was terrible.

I loved Apple because it was innovative company, they were creating new products which were many times copied by other companies, and now, it seems to me like Apple is catching up to those companies, by creating new mini iPad and even comparing it with other product. It was cheap and they showed their weakness, that's my opinion

I hope we will see again something new, something breathtaking, like an iPhone, and I hope, it will be revealed by Apple, not Google

 

[rrl]

As I looked a little deeper into this I found out what actually happened. The pictures from the keynote were fairly realistic, with the exception that they did not put the Nexus in full screen mode which it does support natively.

The reason the Nexus doesn't show as much as the Mini is that it does not do 1:1 pixel mapping, meaning it has 961x600 density independent pixels - that makes the content a little bit sharper (ignoring the fact that this screen is an unusual pixel density, causing some elements to be scaled up from phone apps, some to be scaled down from tablet apps). Anyhow, the reality is the Mini does show more content than the Nexus 7.

We discussed this further in this thread. https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=16136463#post16136463

Wrong. As in the demo, we're talking about web browsing. The Nexus 7 web browser can display a web page, pixel-for-pixel, at 1280x800. Period. But when a web page uses a point-based font, the browser will force a screen with a smaller dot pitch (higher ppi) to use more pixels per character to maintain the point value. Point value is an absolute size (an inch is an inch), it's not a pixel value, which is relative to ppi. It's subtle, which is exactly how Phil scammed everyone.

Like I said, apple.com is the proper test. It renders the same, pixel-for-pixel, on any display. And at apple.com, the Nexus 7 will leave the iPad mini wanting.

 

[zhenya]

Wrong. As in the demo, we're talking about web browsing. The Nexus 7 web browser can display a web page, pixel-for-pixel, at 1280x800. Period. But when a web page uses a point-based font, the browser will force a screen with a smaller dot pitch (higher ppi) to use more pixels per character to maintain the point value. Point value is an absolute size (an inch is an inch), it's not a pixel value, which is relative to ppi. It's subtle, which is exactly how Phil scammed everyone.

Like I said, apple.com is the proper test. It renders the same, pixel-for-pixel, on any display. And at apple.com, the Nexus 7 will leave the iPad mini wanting.

Ok, so as I said in the other thread, some sites scale in the Mini's favor, some in the Nexus' favor, right? I see what you are saying about apple.com, but from a brief look at half a dozen popular sites, it appears most of them use point based fonts, or at least scale in a way that is more similar to the Guggenheim example than apple.com. Apple's homepage is an exception (but not the rest of the site). If that's correct, then the mini is going to provide a better experience on most of those pages, no?

 

[gmanist1000]

This comparison was terrible.

I loved Apple because it was innovative company, they were creating new products which were many times copied by other companies, and now, it seems to me like Apple is catching up to those companies, by creating new mini iPad and even comparing it with other product. It was cheap and they showed their weakness, that's my opinion

I hope we will see again something new, something breathtaking, like an iPhone, and I hope, it will be revealed by Apple, not Google

The real Apple TV (hopefully) will be the next iPhone.

 

[lighthouse_man]

A comparison that might end up being irrelevant come next Monday when Google holds its Android event.

 

[rrl]

Ok, so as I said in the other thread, some sites scale in the Mini's favor, some in the Nexus' favor, right? I see what you are saying about apple.com, but from a brief look at half a dozen popular sites, it appears most of them use point based fonts, or at least scale in a way that is more similar to the Guggenheim example than apple.com. Apple's homepage is an exception (but not the rest of the site). If that's correct, then the mini is going to provide a better experience on most of those pages, no?

Peoples mileage will vary. The full news.google.com, is an opposite example. And what you said is not true about the rest of apple.com. The Chrome browser has some rudimentary advanced settings to combat the font point scaling, but it's mostly useless for random browsing. In the end, grainy text is grainy text. The Mac mini is kind of a step backwards.

But I would like to correct one egregious error I made. Even in full screen mode, the Android browser retains the navigation soft keys, so if I read things correctly, that's 96 less pixels tall in portrait mode, and 85 less pixels wide in landscape mode, yet still more real estate than an iPad mini. Full, full screen mode is mostly reserved for video apps.

 

[xofruitcake]

This comparison was terrible.

I hope we will see again something new, something breathtaking, like an iPhone, and I hope, it will be revealed by Apple, not Google

Why? You got to sell your products and make your money before you can afford to be innovative and have money to fund the research and development. Apple is pushing a lot of new component into this refresh of almost the entire line of product and they are paying the price of doing so in term of higher cost and delay product production. What do you think passbook do? What about the fly over in the IOS map? what about the in-cell touch screen that Apple use in Iphone 5 allowing the phone to be thinner and lighter? What about retina display across the product line? I think Iphone 5 is the thinnest smartphone made. Those don't count?

 

[jclardy]

A big reason the web looks different is that the Nexus 7 has a different ratio... not a big deal

Actually it is a pretty big deal. I have a nexus 7 and web browsing is quite terrible in comparison to iPad, for two reasons:

1. 16:10 screen - in landscape you only see an extremely small window, which means you are scrolling around everywhere. For example, on the Verge you can only see the first row of the featured articles box. In portrait it is OK, but still requires more zooming than iPad.

2. Scrolling. I am not talking about "lag" here, but consistency. If I swipe on a webpage in the same manor multiple times it will scroll different amounts nearly every time. Had I never used an iOS device before this wouldn't be a huge deal, but after experiencing the consistency of the scroll gesture it is horrible using the N7. The problem seems to stem from the fact that Google doesn't prioritize touch input over everything else, so if the browser wants to take up CPU time rendering it will delay processing the touch which means it will scroll quickly when there is lightweight content (text) and slowly when there is javascript/images/video. On iOS user input always takes priority over everything so it doesn't miss anything, meaning it scrolls consistently.

Given the combination of the two the device is just a pain to use in landscape mode. ANd in portrait you don't get the iPad's content-aware double-tap to zoom (Double-tap on N7 results in a default zoom level, rather than zooming to fit the specific element you tapped on.)

 

[BigHonkingDeal]

The problem is that the picture of the webpage doesn't represent reality. The Nexus may have a physically smaller screen, but it has more overall pixels in either orientation. You should be seeing MORE of the webpage on the Nexus than on the iPad mini. I don't think they are doing any scaling to increase sharpness on the Nexus, so that was just completely misleading on Apple's part.

This is an actual screen shot from my Nexus 7