Phil Schiller Defends iPad Mini Pricing Decision

[Fuzzy14]

Or someone has forgotten to consider that UK pricing has the sales tax included in it but US doesn't.

$329 at current rate comes to £205.11, add in the 20% VAT tax and you get £246.13. the listed price is £269. That difference comes from import taxes and the fact that Apple only recalculates like twice a year (maybe 4 times now)

Not at all, I know you've got local sales tax of 6-10% compared to UK VAT of 20% (which I claim back as a business user) but your own calculations prove that there's still a premium for the UK/Europe, in the 90s they were pretty near a £1=$1 exchange rate when the market rate was nearer £1=$2 . I've never seen UK prices modified to take account of exchange rate fluctuations so not sure what they are recalculating 4 time a year.

 

[Stately]

"and I think a lot of customers are going to be very excited about that," Schiller said."

Using Steve's words as a springboard, just to get to the psyche of the consumer, without integrity behind it, is not going to get sharp minds to buy. People are waking up. High prices for some hardware was always accepted because of performance tied in with aesthetics, i.e. the MBP. The MB's were accepted, because they were a sturdy machine, which boasted aesthetic value also and got the job done, in a compact size, for school etc. But now Steve's phrases are clearly being used to keep money coming in, instead of really trying to do something for the customers. The starting mini, could have easily and would have been appropriate, to start at 220. Guaranteed, they would fly off of the shelves, people would be happy, the company would be ok etc. You buy a machine for 300 and by the fifth month of payment to rip off att, on the lowest gigs, you have basically bought another ipad mini. Does this not make sense to people? Your paying a phone bill, that att always manages to find a way to mark up every month due to "backround apps running", and the "mysterious extra data usage" that couldn't possibly be, because you purposely let the device have downtime that month . . These stories are all commonplace now. But because we want our toys, we suffer to have and use them? The legacy of Apple is crumbling quickly and while I know Steve is gone as someone politely pointed out to me, it doesn't mean his legacy needs to die. Vision was his main asset and we are now seeing how vision, does actually need to be at the helm of a company. A couple fake nice words, uttered, just to get into the psyche of the individual, to trick them into feeling good about their purchases is low down. When Steve said that phrase, there was still purpose behind it. It is now just a tool.

 

[samcraig]

re: Apple/Android ecosystem

As someone who is mostly Apple (and heavily invested in their ecosystem) but also has a Samsung Skyrocket phone I was initially worried (before I made the switch) that the ecosystem on Android would be everything I had heard/read. I made a list of all the apps I used regularly - then the apps that I use every so often - and then the apps that I have but don't really use.

Before the switch - I went to the play store and found that all but maybe one or 2 apps I used regularly wasn't available (now they are). And the same was true down the line. There are, of course, apps that exist only on one platform.

I was sincerely concerned I might feel like I was missing out on some feature, app or experience by switching my primary phone to Android.

Honestly - I'm enjoying it. There are pluses and minuses to both the Android and iOS experience. Some features are different/better (subjective) and others not so much.

Both Apple and Android users make sacrifices (a strong word, I know) depending on which platform they go with. None, in my opinion is extreme. They are simply different even though there are similarities.

My last comment (I didn't intend on writing this much) is that I honestly feel there's a lot of ignorance and/or chest beating on this forum from people who really have no business talking about a platform they haven't really used. Something you've really dived into. I know there are some who have. But most comments come from those that have only tried it out in the store, have a friend who had one and played with it for awhile. Maybe you even bought one and then returned it shortly after (no doubt after being so ingrained with iOS that you just didn't want to go over any learning curve/or had issues with "change"). It might be a fun thing to bash the competition - but if you have no frame of reference - it's just worthless rhetoric.

 

[ChrisTX]

I'm sure you feel the same way every time you fill your gas tank. Or pay your electric bill. Or cable bill. Or grocery bill.

There's a big difference here. You make a valid point but what we don't know is exactly how much profit Apple is making here. We do know however that Amazon sells the Kindle Fire at just a hair below cost at $199 while it's slated to cost $209.63 to build. I think the idea here is that Apple isn't trying to undercut the iPod touch in any way, and they're certainly not trying to sell at a loss like everyone else. These other other companies realized that the only way to get a non iPad tablet to move is by price IE HP TouchPad. Before the HP fire sale on the TouchPad, you couldn't talk anyone into a non iPad tablet. Apple won't have this problem, and will probably sell a lot of Minis!

 

[samcraig]

Apple won't have this problem, and will probably sell a lot of Minis!

Especially with their "Buy and iPad Mini Get a Pedi" campaign

 

[Royalcards]

Apple is making their consumers pay higher because they know they have locked them in their ecosystem.

Just to think, we are paying higher not because of a deserved up to date hardware but because of Apple ecosystem which developers has contributed a lot with in the first place.

Take out the Appstore and lets see who buy this junk!

Greedy Apple!

 

[the8thark]

Even though it's functionally a tablet (just like the iPhone is functionally a tablet), the Touch doesn't occupy the budget tablet market. Most people aren't going, I want a tablet but an iPad is too expensive so I'm gonna buy a touch instead. They're going, I want a tablet but an iPad is too expensive so I'm gonna buy a Kindle/Nook/Nexus.

That's simply because Apple Advertised it as a touch screen music player. And not a fully capable tablet computer. The iPod Touch is both of these things as we both know. It is still a budget funny functional tablet computer, even if Apple don't advertise it as such.

 

[fertilized-egg]

My last comment (I didn't intend on writing this much) is that I honestly feel there's a lot of ignorance and/or chest beating on this forum from people who really have no business talking about a platform they haven't really used. Something you've really dived into.

That's the same for any forum with a brand/platform loyalty. I have a Playbook and a Windows Phone 7, and Android users are usually automatically dismissive of them before even trying them out properly even though they are cheaper and run smoother than Android equivalents. They won't buy Apple iPad mini because it's more expensive than Nexus 7? Why don't they buy Playbook at half the price of Nexus 7? It runs Android apps too after all. Heck why don't they buy Chinese tablets that run vanilla Android then?

If anything, I haven't seen any brand-centric forum where there are so many detractors for that brand like Macrumors. It's like some people stay here just to argue and criticize the Apple brand and its users.

 

[the-wanderer]

if he thought the product was suitably priced he would have wrote nothing.

ergo

he has to defend because even he knows apple is ripping people off. guilt is powerful.

 

[samcraig]

If anything, I haven't seen any brand-centric forum where there are so many detractors for that brand like Macrumors. It's like some people stay here just to argue and criticize the Apple brand and its users.

Maybe. I also think there are a lot of people who own Apple products (whether it's an iMac, Apple TV, iPad, etc or a combination of many) who argue and criticize Apple because just because they use their tech doesn't "excuse" Apple from being perfect (like any company). People tend to be passionate about things they care for. So some of these people - who are called trolls and other silly names are nothing of the sort - but rather people who want Apple to succeed and are invested but also disappointed by this or that.

And just like any brand-centric forum - there are those that can't deal with any negativity because they refuse to accept that the brand they love is not infallible. The defend, move goal posts, bash the competition and argue - because they feel threatened for some ridiculous reason.

It's the way of the beast. But I'm still entitled to post my little "essay"

ETA: Oh - and I think people like to state that it seems "worse" here. It's not. It's the same. There are all sorts of posters on forums like this that range from rational to heretic. I'm not sure why people think it's "worse" here or again - want to imply that other "fans" are worse than Apple's.

 

[techwhiz]

Android JVM

In many cases the iPad has out preformed on lower spec hardware then competitors with better hardware. Hardware is only half of the solution. A better developed operating system to take advantage of that hardware which is needed.

I'm not sure why Android has to use some java Virtual machine to run its applications while iOS runs it natively. Which is probably part of the problem.

You do realize, Android uses a just in time compiler, then caches the compiled code. This allows a single app to run across multiple hardware platforms. SO while you think it's a detriment, it's not. In the end it's still compiled code.
Underneath iOS is a stripped down MacOS, under Android is embedded Linux.

Your point is????

 

[kas23]

Maybe. I also think there are a lot of people who own Apple products (whether it's an iMac, Apple TV, iPad, etc or a combination of many) who argue and criticize Apple because just because they use their tech doesn't "excuse" Apple from being perfect (like any company). People tend to be passionate about things they care for. So some of these people - who are called trolls and other silly names are nothing of the sort - but rather people who want Apple to succeed and are invested but also disappointed by this or that.

And just like any brand-centric forum - there are those that can't deal with any negativity because they refuse to accept that the brand they love is not infallible. The defend, move goal posts, bash the competition and argue - because they feel threatened for some ridiculous reason.

It's the way of the beast. But I'm still entitled to post my little "essay"

ETA: Oh - and I think people like to state that it seems "worse" here. It's not. It's the same. There are all sorts of posters on forums like this that range from rational to heretic. I'm not sure why people think it's "worse" here or again - want to imply that other "fans" are worse than Apple's.

You really raise some excellent points. People are critical of the things they are passionate about. I certainly wouldn't take the time to go bash the BB Playbook on a BB forum because I couldn't care less about what they do with it. It's not that I have a strong opinion of the Playbook, I just don't seem to care about it.

I care about Apple products. I have many of them and would love to plop down $329 for an iPad mini. I don't think it's expensive. But I don't think you get value for that price. It's like Apple wasn't concerned with making a technologically superior product, they just wanted to put out *a* product with the lowest risk and let the chips fall where they may. Come on, it has 1-2 year-old technology in it. Even if they sold it for $100 I wouldn't buy it. I want a great product and am annoyed that I now have to wait another year to get it.

 

[frayne182]

Both OS have things to praise and things to complain about.

I personally like both worlds. if you never tried Android check it out sometime. Like sit down and actually try it. Its pretty good and offers experiences you can't find on iOS.

Vice versa there are things I like more on iOS. Personally I like Android tablets more then iPads.... But like the iPhone more then Android phones.


If the iPad mini came out before the Nexus 7 I probably would of got it because nothing else really caught my eye... But when the Nexus 7 came out it was the perfect balance for me. Price, features, and size.

7'' is perfect for me (Thats what she said)


Enjoy the mini for people that get it, but overall I think its a bit overpriced. Old dated hardware/software is supposed to go down in price over time. Apple is using less components, the same components, no retina, etc. Yet price doesn't drop.

I understand that they have set the standard for having higher prices, but doesn't mean they should continue that practice.

Seriously does the mini have Siri? Serious question I'm curious.

 

[techwhiz]

Platform Differences

That's the same for any forum with a brand/platform loyalty. I have a Playbook and a Windows Phone 7, and Android users are usually automatically dismissive of them before even trying them out properly even though they are cheaper and run smoother than Android equivalents. They won't buy Apple iPad mini because it's more expensive than Nexus 7? Why don't they buy Playbook at half the price of Nexus 7? It runs Android apps too after all. Heck why don't they buy Chinese tablets that run vanilla Android then?

If anything, I haven't seen any brand-centric forum where there are so many detractors for that brand like Macrumors. It's like some people stay here just to argue and criticize the Apple brand and its users.

I dismiss Windows phone because I can't remove the SD card and mount it on the desktop of anything. It behaves differently than any other platform. I dismiss Windows phone because, when introduced it crippled Exchange. SO initially Windows Phone was a POS. I have a buddy that loves it, but only Nokia as a hardware company has embraced it, and they got $1 Billion to do that. There is no real ecosystem around Windows Phone. No critical mass, if you will.

The Playbook was bad hardware when released. The cheap Chinese tablets are crap, with buggy ports of Android and from what I can see, never modern hardware with the best screens. A cheap Chinese tablet is not an iPad OR a Nexus 7.

We all appear to be adults here and we have differing opinions. I don't see this debate changing any minds, so why don't we just "Agree to Disagree"?

Some think the iPad is priced correctly, other too high.
It's a decent piece of hardware. Some of us will only buy it when there are refurbs, because that is where the value proposition makes sense.

 

[madrich]

Tooooo Expensive

I was looking forward to it for a "self" Christmas gift, but now I will wait. I will just have to my hold my iPod closer to my eye and pretend that it's bigger. :-(

 

[Oletros]

Seriously does the mini have Siri? Serious question I'm curious.

Yes, it has Siri

 

[fertilized-egg]

I dismiss Windows phone because I can't remove the SD card and mount it on the desktop of anything.

Not that those aren't fair enough but those issues make the current Nexus devices automatically non-starter for you too. Which clearly isn't the case with many Android buyers.

The Playbook was bad hardware when released. The cheap Chinese tablets are crap, with buggy ports of Android and from what I can see, never modern hardware with the best screens. A cheap Chinese tablet is not an iPad OR a Nexus 7.

The Playbook wasn't bad when it was released. Its hardware is still very usable and the thing still felt smoother than Honeycomb tablets. A Windows Phone 7 feels much smoother than any comparable Android phone as well.

Put it this way, the new iPad Mini feels more premium than Nexus 7, looks better, and based on iPad 2 vs Nexus 7, I believe it'll be still smoother and have better ecosystem. Pluss its display, despite its lower resolution, seems to be better than most other tablets including iPad 2 based on the initial reports as well as being significantly bigger than 7" Android tablets in size.

I'm pointing out that the same people who won't touch Playbook despite its great value, have no problem attacking Apple because it doesn't agree with their criteria. If you're fine with paying twice the price for Nexus 7 over Playbook because of certain reasons, I think the same goes for iPad Mini as well, especially considering that Playbook can run Android apps.

We all appear to be adults here and we have differing opinions. I don't see this debate changing any minds, so why don't we just "Agree to Disagree"?

That I have no problem with but Macrumors is made for bickering.

 

[samcraig]

Put it this way, the new iPad Mini feels more premium than Nexus 7, looks better, and based on iPad 2 vs Nexus 7, I believe it'll be still smoother and have better ecosystem.

This is, of course, your opinion. Since you haven't felt an iPad Mini (I'm perhaps assuming). Looking better is subjective. And so is the comment about ecosystems.

Definitely entitled to your opinion (and no need for it to come off as if I am suggesting you need my permission either). Just noting that it's your opinion. And others might have a different one.

 

[frayne182]

Yes, it has Siri

I find it funny that the iPad mini. Made completely out of iPad 2 parts can run Siri....

Yet the iPad 2 can't.


Not trying to bash, but I hate when Apple does this. Then claim that the hardware can't support it

 

[dcorban]

If $329 was all the cheaper Apple wanted to get with their iPad line, why didn't they just lower the price of the aging iPad 2 by $70? It's absurd to me that $70 is all that separates the iPad 2 from the iPad Mini.

Are you saying you'd rather have an iPad 2 for $70 more than the Mini? I sure would not.

----------

I find it funny that the iPad mini. Made completely out of iPad 2 parts can run Siri....

Yet the iPad 2 can't.


Not trying to bash, but I hate when Apple does this. Then claim that the hardware can't support it

I am genuinely curious to see a quote where Apple claimed the hardware was not capable.

 

[tom53092]

All this talk about overpriced is justified.

If the ipad mini come with retina display, A6 processor, then hell any premium to be paid is worth it.

Otherwise, this is just a recycled ipad 2. $329 is a high price!

Pretty much true.
I have no problem with the price of the base model or the screen or even the 2yo processor.

- No GPS in the WiFi unit. Yes, I know this is Apple SOP, but some of us like to get off the beaten path or use it for boating charts, where there is no cell access. Or just want maps while driving.
- High markup for extra memory. I think 32GB is the minimum you'd want to handle bringing some music, a few tv shows/movies, maps, and have room left to take videos and pictures.

To get 32GB and GPS in an iPad mini, you're talking $560.
That's a lot of money for something I want but don't really need, and will be obsolete in 9 months. I may wait for the iPad mini 2.

 

[frayne182]

Are you saying you'd rather have an iPad 2 for $70 more than the Mini? I sure would not.

----------



I am genuinely curious to see a quote where Apple claimed the hardware was not capable.

Explain why not then.

atleast they should update the iPad 2 to support features.

Its the same with Siri not on the iPhone 4 yet when you jailbreak it you can get siri running fine on it.

Or no turn by turn for the iPhone 4

Or features left out of the ipad 2 and 1.


Like I said, I love both... But I don't understand why they leave certain things out of their products when they can definitely handle them

 

[fertilized-egg]

This is, of course, your opinion. Since you haven't felt an iPad Mini (I'm perhaps assuming). Looking better is subjective. And so is the comment about ecosystems.

Definitely entitled to your opinion (and no need for it to come off as if I am suggesting you need my permission either). Just noting that it's your opinion. And others might have a different one.

I don't think ecosystem in tablets is really that subjective at this point. iPad ecosystem is simply better when you consider all the factors and I don't think I've seen anyone really argue that, usually the argument is that Android tablet app is "good enough".

Although I haven't felt or touched an iPad Mini, there are lots of hands-on reports and we have the current iPad and iPod Touch to easily guess the advantage since they share a lot of design elements with the iPad mini. You could argue Nexus 7 or Kindle Fire/Playbook are more practical due to their soft touch material but I don't think it's really that debatable which one feels more premium when compared side-by-side.

ETA: Oh - and I think people like to state that it seems "worse" here. It's not. It's the same. There are all sorts of posters on forums like this that range from rational to heretic. I'm not sure why people think it's "worse" here or again - want to imply that other "fans" are worse than Apple's.

I highly disagree. I participate in many brand centric forums and I do not see where there are a consistent stream of people who stay there and do mostly criticizing Apple and finger waving at Apple users for being biased and irrational. In Macrumors that's a very common practice but not so much in other brand forums.

 

[Tigger92]

should have been $249 for iPad 2 level tech ...

AAPL is failing

I am amazed at almost every product announcement (not including the FCPX debacle....and I do use it and am happy with it, I might add) includes many wannabe pundits that claim that Apple has either failed or is failing. Yet, nearly every time, Apple has either made inroads into a market or increased sales, etc.

Somehow, that doesn't exactly come across as "Fail" to me.

----------

Did you guys see that I posted that you can get a 3rd gen iPad for $50 more than the freaking Mini?? There is no way the currently spec'd Mini is worth it's price when you factor in that a full blown retina display equipped A5X iPad is only $50 more...

That is only your opinion. Others happen to think otherwise. It is lighter and easier to carry with one hand. That is definitely worth it to my wife who would like something smaller to hold that her current iPad, but still perform as well.

 

[Liquorpuki]

That's simply because Apple Advertised it as a touch screen music player. And not a fully capable tablet computer. The iPod Touch is both of these things as we both know. It is still a budget funny functional tablet computer, even if Apple don't advertise it as such.

Functionally it's a tablet but the Touch isn't a part of the budget tablet market. The budget tablet marketsize is 15 million units sold, dominated by the Fire, Nook, and Nexus, standardized by a 7 inch screen and a pricepoint around $200.