Phil Schiller Discusses 16-Inch MacBook Pro, Says Virtual Esc Key Was Number One Complaint About Touch Bar

[Cosmosent]

Has anybody asked Phil why Apple chose NOT to support "HDR" Video Playback with its new 16" ?

500 nits Brightness is strictly SDR !

One would think that for the Coin Apple wants for their new 16," they would have included a better Display !

Would have been happy with 725 nits, but certainly NOT 500 nits !

 

[jonblatho]

People have been wanting the mythical xMac for literally 18 years. Making a cut-down version of the Mac Pro saves Apple very little money, therefore it would save customers very little. What do I mean by this?

If you cut the eight slots of the Mac Pro down to two or three or four, that saves Apple maybe $5-10. PCIe sockets are cheap. If you cut down the power supply to 600-800 Watts, that saves Apple maybe $30-40. If you cut the ram sockets down from twelve to six, you save maybe $3-4 dollars. A smaller case, maybe you save $100.

So Apple saves a couple few hundred dollars, and your cutdown Mac Pro is at least $5,200-5,400, somewhere in that neighborhood. Who wants that?

The small tower isn’t going to happen. People want it for $2-3k but that’s not a profitable or viable product for Apple. Customers just wanting it aren’t enough, otherwise we’d already have it.

Especially those coming from the PC side, they always want a cheap mini tower. But Apple doesn’t do cheap anything. Not enough people would want an xMac at the price Apple would have to charge to bring it to market. That’s what I see anyway, ymmv.

PS Note I don’t say I wouldn’t want one; sure I’d love a smaller Mac Pro for $2k or $3k, even if it didn’t have high core count Xeons available. But I’d also like a 5” iPhone SE Pro for $499. Apple would need to sell it for $849-$899. So yeah, I understand why Apple won’t make those, even though I’d really, really like them

That was the case when the gap was between an up-to-$1,000ish Mac mini and a Mac Pro starting at $2,999. That’s no longer the case. Now, there’s a far larger gap between the models — especially if you happen to need or want a discrete GPU, which isn’t offered on the current Mac mini but is offered on the iMac, iMac Pro, and Mac Pro.

Yes, you can get an eGPU. No, you shouldn’t have to. (And besides, Apple could make quite a bit more money offering an internal discrete GPU as a BTO option.)

A modestly larger Mac mini with Intel Core processors and internal discrete graphics would be a very attractive option to quite a few people and no more niche than the current “pro” Mac mini, the iMac Pro, or the Mac Pro. Come next month, there are going to be quite a few people who don’t want an all-in-one machine (again, a common view) who feel forced to choose between the best-performing Mac mini money can buy, which isn’t exactly great, and the extortionately priced base-model Mac Pro.

And of course, when a customer feels boxed in like that, one of the likelier outcomes is that Apple winds up collecting $0.00 in revenue because the prospective customer chose to buy a Windows machine that fits their needs or build one themselves. Not that many people are inextricably tied to macOS, and indeed there are many users who fall into this gap that have instead chosen that option for years now.

There is a gap. The fact that Apple has left this gap for some time doesn’t mean that it doesn’t deserve to be filled, that there’s insufficient demand for it, or that they never will fill it.

 

[mdriftmeyer]

🤣, Duh.

 

[TMRJIJ]

What an ignorant thing to say. Chromebooks expose kids to Linux which has greater than 90% marketshare in the data center, cloud, embedded, etc. iOS/iPadOS is irrelevant in the real world. Not surprising since he's more like the Steve Ballmer of Apple and not someone competent like Steve Wozniak.

He is completely 100% wrong about Chromebooks in the classroom. He said the iPad works better. OK, just try and write an essay on an iPad. The glass keyboard is not that good. Maybe for very young kids who don't do much reading and writing. You need a real keyboard for real work

Have you ever tried to read a PDF version of a textbook on an iPad? You have to do a LOT of horizontal and vertical scrolling. On the 15" Chromebook the PDF formatted page works well enough.

Chromebooks run real web browsers too.

Finally, my experience is with high school students but if you ask students to do something on a Chromebook they can gt the right to work. But they are not nearly as productive on iPads

The Chromebook is very much like a Mac actually. I prefer them to any Windows 10 PC.

When I was in High School, we all hated the Chromebooks. I’m sure Google has improved their services from 2014, but back then these chromebook devices were just not suitable for productivity. Google Drive documents were hard to format correctly according to the curriculum requirements and a lot of freezing occurred due to limited network infrastructure. These issues would obviously never happen with actual Software Based OSs.

Also, I think my school got the cheapest ones on the market. About five of them broke every month. The build quality was cheap and not very portable. Somehow, I always ended up with the one with sticky keys (like literally sticky, some kid probably spilled something on the keyboard).

Teachers fought for the stack of iPads, even when they weren’t necessary (like in English classes).

 

[Naaaaak]

Headline is an Apple PR mis-direct manuever.

Lack of a physical Esc key really sucked, but most serious "complaint" was DEFECTIVE BUTTERFLY KEYBOARDS that ruined 4 years of Apple laptops.

 

[aksala]

Hey Phil - I think the Touchbar is the #1 complaint about the Touchbar.

 

[IG88]

The iMac doesn’t suit everyone’s needs, though. Many people simply do not want an all-in-one machine. Not to say the iMac doesn’t have a market — I’m typing this from my own 27” iMac right now — but to say that it sufficiently fills the gap currently left between the Mac mini and Mac Pro is absurd.

I didn't say that IMO it sufficiently fills the gap. I said Apple's answer to the question of "what fills the gap between the $6K MBP and Mac Mini" is iMac.

 

[alexandr]

Next year they will probably update it to 14" and the scissor keyboard.

with an escape key!

 

[code-m]

Has anybody asked Phil why Apple chose NOT to support "HDR" Video Playback with its new 16" ?

500 nits Brightness is strictly SDR !

One would think that for the Coin Apple wants for their new 16," they would have included a better Display !

Would have been happy with 725 nits, but certainly NOT 500 nits !

Apple needs some standout feature for 2020 revision, possibly HDR10/+, Anti-reflective Nano coating (similar to XDR) and higher refresh rates with 10th Gen Intel chip. The new 16” MBP is a good start to correct the mishap of the 2016 MBP. Apple is like a slow moving machine for somethings when it does not want to admit it made a mistake but quick in other regards to remove the OpticalDrive etc.

In due time my friend.

 

[markgpearse]

"To its credit, Apple listened and made the change"

Why do we have to give credit to companies that listen to their customers. Isn't that what companies are supposed to do? Is the acceptable default for companies not to listen.

 

[fokmik]

Has anybody asked Phil why Apple chose NOT to support "HDR" Video Playback with its new 16" ?

500 nits Brightness is strictly SDR !

One would think that for the Coin Apple wants for their new 16," they would have included a better Display !

Would have been happy with 725 nits, but certainly NOT 500 nits !

For over 700-1000nits its more for a external monitor...that higher brightness need active cooling and bigger battery...probably working on an 1000nits (even peak at 1000nits) your battery probably could last 3 hours for an portable device..
HDR or now XDR are for plug-in stand alone monitor....at least until the tech will allow us to have 1W 1000nits display

 

[2ilent8cho]

I've played with the Touch Bar a few times on friends MacBooks (who like it) plus I've played with it in the Apple Stores and always wanted a MacBook with it but I have a 2013 MacBook Pro, 2012 Air, 2015 Air and a 2017 MacBook , plus a 2014 Mac mini so I was struggling to justify it. But I think the just released 16" with 64GB RAM and a 4TB SSD might make a nice replacement for my 2013 MacBook Pro and I will finally get a TouchBar .

 

[winston1236]

I can imagine that several people's number one complaint about the Mac Pro will be its price. I wonder if Apple will listen and address the desktop market in the $2k to $4k range.

And another thing: Apple seriously needs to bring modularity back in some form, even if they don't offer it on all models. If I spend over $2k on a notebook, why on earth can I not upgrade it (SSD/RAM) when the time comes? Boggles my mind.

Yeah I'm not looking forward to even attempting to explain to the management at my company why we would need to spend 6k on a new workstation that previously was half that amount. They will probably make me buy the old (2013-) models or even switch to pcs for our editors.

 

[Hazmat401]

And of course no word from Phil, nor from those early "reviewers" about Apple completely screwing customers like me, who bought refreshed version of 15" just about a month ago. It even had that "new" badge in their online store up until yesterday!

All of them are comparing the new 16" MBP to the "last gen" but nobody tells you that this particular last gen was quietly refreshed just 2 months ago and has the same processors, being otherwise in many aspects an inferior machine for the same price (don't get me started on those keyboards).

So, I could basically have the new 16 with a 1 tb storage and better graphics if I just waited one month? But hey, they kept the same price! How gracious from you Apple using your customers as cash cows once again!

And special thanks Apple for your transparent and fair roadmap of products. And for such completely natural interviews in fancy lofts with youtube "influencers". Exactly what I needed. ☁︎☄︎⌁⚡︎☠︎

Lol... luck of the draw. I just picked mine up yesterday and it’s going right back!

 

[Fronkenstein]

🤣, Duh.

I tweeted that GIF to Apple support in 2017 asking for a way to reduce the sensitivity of the virtual ESC key, so happy to see that there finally Is a $3000 solution. Thanks Apple!

 

[fokmik]

"To its credit, Apple listened and made the change"

Why do we have to give credit to companies that listen to their customers. Isn't that what companies are supposed to do? Is the acceptable default for companies not to listen.

not really...companies had to hire intelligent people that along side the "usual" things to push the boundaries forward....when the first S class had airbags...nobody asked for them...nobody thought about them...they come because the company had brilliant people

 

[bruinsrme]

The new MBP rocks. I know people will complain.
I am really considering it instead of the new Mac Pro.
64gb RAM is awesome. Yes, the Apple tax on that hurts. Too bad, we can't update it later, but still, overall, I think the entire MBP is reasonably priced.

Complain? It’s the only reason I am reading this thread. its entertaining to say the least

 

[pacalis]

In my view the 12" retina macbook is still the best business product the company ever made. I see all of these products as specialty/creative which is not what the typical business person or student needs.

There still is nothing comparable for travel/portability. Wish they would bring it back.

 

[code-m]

with an escape key!

Todays announcement did reintroduce a physical ESC key, it will spread to the entire lineup.

The TB is Apples non-admission to incorporating a touchscreen. Granted macOS is not designed for touchUI, trying to duplicate certain functionality on a secondary display that draws ones attention away from the display is counter-intuitive and counter- productive. Hopefully a touchscreen in the years coming.

 

[jonblatho]

Most major degree seeking students in college would be absolutely fine with a Chromebook for their coursework.

I suspect that number is far smaller than you think it is, at least considering students who could use a Chromebook as their primary machine without having to employ hacks and nonsense to make things work acceptably, and even with those it’d still be flat-out unusable for some. I can say that a Chromebook would absolutely have been unacceptable for my undergraduate education as a meteorology major.

 

[Rogifan]

I have a question: if the butterfly keyboard is that bad (and I’m not referring to reliability issues) why didn’t Schiller’s product marketing team tell the designers and engineers that it would never be acceptable to pro customers? Isn’t it Schiller’s team who has a direct relationship with pro customers? Regardless of who thought up the butterfly mechanism the company as a whole signed off on it. Schiller got up on stage and announced it.

 

[jonblatho]

I didn't say that IMO it sufficiently fills the gap. I said Apple's answer to the question of "what fills the gap between the $6K MBP and Mac Mini" is iMac.

Understood, apologies for my misunderstanding.

 

[DonutHands]

They should have listened to the rest of the complaints about the touch bar and got rid of the thing all together.

 

[code-m]

In my view the 12" retina macbook is still the best business product the company ever made. There still is nothing comparable for travel/portability. Wish they would bring it back.

Probably comeback as an ARM based product as the processor in those rMB were worse performers compared to an iPad. Only saving grace was macOS.

I loved the size, weight of the device but it should have incorporated two USB-C, microSD slot for a competitive product. With the intro of external drive support within iOS this is a good indicator of a future ARM laptop.

 

[robjulo]

Yep....and shows ZERO understanding of how they are being used in schools, or the fact that schools are extremely resourced constrained. Just another out of touch Apple exec.

Completely unnecessary shot at chromebooks.