Phil Schiller Says Apple Tested and Rejected Touch Screen Macs, Finding It 'Absurd' on a Desktop

[jmgregory1]

I don't get comments like this. It would take you 2 seconds to test and realize that you can touch every point on a touch screen laptop without raising your elbows of the desk. I can touch at least the bottom third without even moving my elbows from the position they naturally rest at while I'm typing. In other words, on a theoretical touch screen macBook, I'd be able to fully interact with at least the dock without making any changes in my hand/elbow position.

Sure, you can slide your arms / hands / fingers forward toward the screen, with elbows on the desk, but it is a very inefficient movement and if your entire work day revolved around doing that, you'd likely develop tennis elbow very quickly.

I'm sitting at my desk now, in fact, and my normal hand/finger position on the keyboard does not allow me to even touch the screen (not even at the bottom where the dock is), without having to slide my arm forward. The only movements my elbows / arms make are very small adjustments if using the trackpad, otherwise my wrists are resting on the wrist rest of my 15" rMBP and I can work uninterrupted for hours in this position. The same is true when I'm standing at my desk (a sit-stand unit).

I've mentioned this before, that I tried to make an iPad and BT keyboard work similarly, for travel instead of bringing my rMBP with me, but it is just so inefficient, having to move between keyboard and screen, I stopped trying and went back to either bringing the laptop or just the iPad (using on-screen keyboard).

 

[Ries]

The problem is vertical touch. Do you understand the debate?

This is how i use my laptop 75% of the time

Can't even see the touch bar, a touch screen would be 10x as useful.

 

[MH01]

Surface Studio is a super-tiny-niche machine aimed at a tiny subset of illustrators; it's a classic example of what Apple could have done but ultimately rejected as a very bad idea.

Adding a layer of touch control means more complexity, bugs and costs, and the absurd sticker price of Microsoft's machine shows it.

question. Have you seen that Simpson episode ? Cause the surface studio has no relation to the homer car.... and very much is not a bad idea if you know who it's made for.....actual pro users... it's very innovative.

You do realise the touch bar has added to the cost of the MacBook Pro.....kettle pot?

 

[macTW]

whereas a touch bar on a laptop makes perfect sense

Entirely different scenario.......

Touch bar is adjacent to the current interaction device, the keyboard. The screen is far and at a tough angle and displays information your greasy hands would block.

 

[thealkimist]

This is how i use my laptop 75% of the time

Can't even see the touch bar, a touch screen would be 10x as useful.

Design principle #1: You cannot design for every use case.

 

[MacsRuleOthersDrool]

Really am not sure what the obsession is with touch screen on a Mac. A feature just to have a feature, maybe? I have an XPS15 and can count on one hand how many times I've used the touch interface. Leave touch to mobile. Point and click makes too much sense on a desktop.

Just change for the sake of change.

It's because MS (for once) has done a REALLY bang-up job showing the VERY LIMITED USEFULNESS of this ONE FEATURE (touch display) in the VERY BEST POSSIBLE light; and in some people's minds, have cast Apple as no longer being "the next big thing".

It's all marketing BS on MS' part; but ya gotta admit, the pig really IS wearing some pretty spiffy clothes...

 

[macTW]

This is how i use my laptop 75% of the time

Can't even see the touch bar, a touch screen would be 10x as useful.

If that's how you use your laptop, save money and get the device designed for that - iPad...

 

[Kabeyun]

In regards to the MacBook Pro's switch to Thunderbolt 3/USB-C ports, and the subsequent frustration by some users who fear needing to purchase and keep track of many dongles, Schiller said that "we're absolutely more sure than ever that we've done the right thing," because of the standard that USB-C is set to become.

I have no idea how his comment addresses said frustration. If I discover I can't plug anything in to my new Apple laptop, I don't feel any better being reminded by Phil Schiller that it's the new standard. I do understand how the following comment would have relieved frustration:

"USB-C has had emerged as the cabling terminator standard, and we understand how irritating it is to deal with adapters and dongles, as well as incompatible cabling. So we've decided the following: to bundle a USB-C to USB-A cable with every new laptop to make it easy to use your legacy peripherals, a 3.5mm to lightning adapter with every new laptop so you can use your new iPhone's earbuds with your new laptop, a lightning to USB-C cable with every iPhone 7 so you can sync it with your new laptop, and a iPhone/iPad wall charger that has a female USB-C outlet instead of USB-A. And while we're at it, as a bonus since iPhones can shoot 4K video, Apple TVs will now be able to display it."

 

[macTW]

But the TouchBar doesn't... ?



See the Surface Studio.

We did. It's garbage.

 

[Ecuadorexpat]

Apple's senior vice president of worldwide marketing, Phil Schiller, recently continued the company's stance against turning its desktop and laptop devices into touch screen-enabled computers, which some customers believe could be advantageous additions to the macOS platform. With the new addition of the "Touch Bar" on the MacBook Pro line, seen by some as a potential step towards a full-on Mac touch screen, many Apple executives have come out saying this isn't the case.

Speaking with Backchannel, Schiller has now stated that a multi-touch display on a MacBook "wouldn't be enough," because it would begin a divide between MacBook and iMac. But, if the company implemented the same touch screen on a desktop it would "become absurd," due to the iMac's main source of user interaction -- the keyboard and mouse or trackpad -- residing too far away from where users would raise their hand to interact with the screen. Ultimately, Schiller said this line of thought is "lowest common denominator thinking."

All the same, Schiller confirmed that Apple has tried out touch screens on a Mac in its labs over the last few years and the company "absolutely come away with the belief that it isn't the right thing to do," he said. "Our instincts were correct." When asked whether the Touch Bar was the beginning of a larger influence by iOS on the macOS platform, Schiller said this was not the case.
In regards to the MacBook Pro's switch to Thunderbolt 3/USB-C ports, and the subsequent frustration by some users who fear needing to purchase and keep track of many dongles, Schiller said that "we're absolutely more sure than ever that we've done the right thing," because of the standard that USB-C is set to become. For context regarding the amount of cables available, MacRumors recently collected some USB-C adapters and dongles available from Apple and third-party accessory makers into a roundup.

Ultimately, Schiller said that the "fundamental difference" between the MacBook Pro's naysayers and fans is divided between those who have not yet interacted with the laptop, and those who have. Thankfully, many more will be able to get a chance to use the MacBook Pro and Touch Bar as the first round of shipments have begun arriving to pre-order customers today.

Article Link: Phil Schiller Says Apple Tested and Rejected Touch Screen Macs, Finding It 'Absurd' on a Desktop

 

[thealkimist]

You're the only one wasting time by trying to justify the lack of not doing something when other less valuable companies are doing the very same thing you're saying Apple can't do for absurd reasons that you've come up with that have no basis in reality. Yes, we are quite done.

I'll only listen to you if you actually have some design research experience with actual case studies and proofs to demonstrate your case, rather than tell me other companies who inflate value propositions to make their products seem more attractive.

 

[StayPuft]

We did. It's garbage.

Based on what?

 

[MacsRuleOthersDrool]

It's odd to me that there continues to be so much "controversy" about this. I own a laptop with a touch screen; that aspect sucks. I never use it. The last thing I want to do is smudge up my screen, and hold up my arm in front of me for extended periods. It doesn't make sense and they are absolutely correct on this.

Yes, and I agree wholeheartedly; but MS has created a "buzz" around their ONE feature, and marketed the HECK out of it, to some obvious success.

But can you think of ONE other feature in ANY "Surface" commercial? Of course not! That's because the REST of their computers SUCK.

Oh, and don't forget: Windows 10.

 

[apolloa]

For all those complaining, please remember what Steve Jobs said about this topic.

And he also said...

So your point is what?? It's called sales tactics and it sucks lots of people on here in a treat..

 

[StayPuft]

I'll only listen to you if you actually have some design research experience with actual case studies and proofs to demonstrate your case, rather than tell me other companies who inflate value propositions to make their products seem more attractive.

You literally just said nothing.

 

[niun]

Heh, this is fun....

More of the same ol' BS..

Surface Studio.. Yes it's niche.. But.. MS has shown the world what can be done with a little bit of thought.
This is the first iteration of the Studio.. It will be copied and released at much lower price points.

Lets imagine a world where your average user has the CHOICE of how to interact with their content. Again with the Surface studio it's not only a touch screen drawing board.. You can use it as a regular desktop. Just as I can use my Surface Book as a regular laptop for coding and as a Wacom tablet for drawing. Nice to have the choice.

Apple went out of their way selling touch. I remember SJ up on stage touching Photo's, Web Pages etc.. This was the way to interact with content. An entire generation is being brought up touching devices, manipulating things with their fingers on screens. This is how children interact with almost all digital devices now.

Apple need to wake up to that fact or just admit they want nothing more than iOS.. I'm betting the next round of iPad's are going to be dirt cheap and offer a few more ports.

 

[thealkimist]

You literally just said nothing.

That's because I'm using language that you are completely unaware of. Google keywords I've said to you so far. I dare you.

 

[StayPuft]

That's because I'm using language that you are completely unaware of. Google keywords I've said to you so far. I dare you.

Since you're incapable of using actual logic to have a discussion, we're done here.

 

[macTW]

Based on what?

I suggest coming out from under that rock. The general consensus is that Surface Pro notebooks fail at both being a laptop and being a tablet. Check any forum.
[doublepost=1479149912][/doublepost]

Since you're incapable of using actual logic to have a discussion, we're done here.

Lol you didn't understand his comment...?

 

[apolloa]

Yes, and I agree wholeheartedly; but MS has created a "buzz" around their ONE feature, and marketed the HECK out of it, to some obvious success.

But can you think of ONE other feature in ANY "Surface" commercial? Of course not! That's because the REST of their computers SUCK.

Oh, and don't forget: Windows 10.

Erm the magnetic keyboard that featured so heavily in the Surface commercials. You know those Pro tablets which were and are so clever and innovative that Apple half coppied them.

 

[MacsRuleOthersDrool]

Everyone said the same thing to Steve Jobs when he released a smartphone with only a touchscreen. Executives like Cook and Schiller have no creativity, vision, or taste.

There is a BIG difference between a Touchscreen on a device you actually hold in your hand, vs. a Touchscreen on a device on a "stand", a foot or so away.

And no, the Surface Studio does NOT address that problem, and in fact makes it WORSE in it's "drafting table" configuration (25 degree angle), by making you have to HOVER your ENTIRE ARM ABOVE the display to keep from accidently making "touches" where you don't want them.

 

[Mac 128]

For all those complaining, please remember what Steve Jobs said about this topic.

Steve also refused to give the Mac arrow keys. He wanted the customer to use the mouse to move the cursor, not arrow keys. But the reality is arrow keys are often much more efficient than having to select the cursor -- this is true for iOS as well. Sometimes I'd much prefer to hit the back arrow key rather than awkwardly try to insert the cursor with my pudgy finger tip to change a few letters.

Possibly the only reason we have the arrow keys today is that Jobs was forced out of Apple and Scully allowed the Mac Plus to have them.

 

[thealkimist]

Since you're incapable of using actual logic to have a discussion, we're done here.

Oh yeah? Tell me how I've been illogical. If you think cost-benefit categories only applies to what the consumer pays for the product, then you don't have a clue as to what it entails to design a product.

 

[v0lume4]

You have to be kidding me. Microsoft said the same thing, that's why they created the Surface Studio. A computer that, you know, folds down to lie on the desk in front of you.

 

[2457282]

Depends on use case I suspect. For example - my laptop was going to be my primary/only computer. Which means I needed to connect my iTunes external drive, my "misc" external drive, power cord and possibly external monitor.

I agree that in a few years it will matter less. But I needed to buy for "today."

Agreed. I put all my external drives on the network so I don't need to plug them in directly to my laptop or desktop. With the new OLED bar on the macbooks, connecting an external monitor is less advisable.