Please try harder Apple, -I just got a dell

[Sanpete]

Currently I think they have prioritised thinness so much that it has affected overall appeal.

The facts, as already pointed out, show otherwise.

Why didn't they just wait and get it right?

Again, the fact is that the battery life is significantly better than for the 2015, using the same OS. Why should they delay to "fix" that? People had already waited a year and a half.

The "bones" I wish Apple would toss us are centered more around desktop workstations, and there are plenty of us talking about it in the Mac Pro forum. This thread is about laptops, and I don't use a laptop for work, I'd rather not derail it by sharing my desktop woes.

Ha, the mystery will remain, then. I hope you'll get whatever it is eventually.

 

[Queen6]

The "bones" I wish Apple would toss us are centered more around desktop workstations, and there are plenty of us talking about it in the Mac Pro forum. This thread is about laptops, and I don't use a laptop for work, I'd rather not derail it by sharing my desktop woes.

Agreed, sadly Apple seems completely incapable of producing a competent desktop computing solution, any doubting the same just need to view the forums...

Q-6

 

[niploteksi]

Can't tell what that I said you're trying to disagree with. Apple has always had a small share of the market, has always had higher prices and been more upscale. No doubt average people can enjoy that, but most don't want to pay extra for what Apple offers.

I'm not trying to disagree with anything you said. I thought you meant that Apple made products for a niche market and I now realise you meant a minority of the entire market. Since there has been so much talk about "pro" and "power" users I thought you were referring to that. Simply a misunderstanding.

 

[Nilhum]

The facts, as already pointed out, show otherwise.



Again, the fact is that the battery life is significantly better than for the 2015, using the same OS. Why should they delay to "fix" that? People had already waited a year and a half.



Ha, the mystery will remain, then. I hope you'll get whatever it is eventually.

The battery for the 2016 is objectively worse. It is a 33 kilowatthours less for the 15 inch. Where have you gotten the idea that it is better. Even on these forums the polls show that most people are getting roughly 6 hours with light use and 60% brightness. The 2012-2015 was well above that in battery life.

The only new Macbook that has a good battery life the is non-TB 13 inch.

 

[Sanpete]

The battery for the 2016 is objectively worse. It is a 33 kilowatthours less for the 15 inch. Where have you gotten the idea that it is better. Even on these forums the polls show that most people are getting roughly 6 hours with light use and 60% brightness. The 2012-2015 was well above that in battery life.

The only new Macbook that has a good battery life the is non-TB 13 inch.

The battery *life* (not battery capacity) of the 2016 15" is objectively significantly improved over the 2015 for the kinds of things people usually rely on batteries for, i.e. light to medium tasks. You can check the controlled tests at Ars Technica and Notebook Check, which tested both when new.

Most people using the 15" who post about this here report very good battery life, 9 to more than 10 hours for browsing and watching video is typical. I got over 11 in my test, with 17 Safari tabs open, several hours of streaming HD video, some light text editing, default scaling, with keyboard backlight on. I was in a fairly dark room much of that time, so my screen brightness was also fairly low except for the video, but the results were more than adequate.

The only model with a spotty record in this regard is the 13" with touch bar, but problems with it have led many to suppose the new MBPs with touch bar in general have battery problems. Not so.

 

[sn0warmy]

Meanwhile, I owned a Dell XPS 15 9550 for all of 2 weeks before returning it and buying a 13" tMBP. This machine has been perfect for me, ultimately coming from a 15" MacBook Pro that I previously used for 2 years.

The new Dell XPS machines are great on paper with excellent specs to boast, especially the newest 9560. However, in my personal experience, the machine felt bulky and cheap in comparison with the MacBook Pro. Additionally, getting it setup perfectly with all the correct drivers and configuring it to play nicely with my Dell 34" monitor + bluetooth keyboard and mouse was an absolute nightmare.

In my opinion, if you can get a Dell XPS for under $800, then I can understand going that route. But when the worthwhile versions are $1200+, it's just way too much money for what it is.

 

[The Mercurian]

And for what appears to be far more people the impact on battery life of going with desktop RAM is a deal breaker. Manufacturers have to chose, offer the option for 32 GB with reduced battery life, or stick with 16 and better battery life. For now, more people care about the battery life, judging from all I've seen, so Apple's choice makes good sense for more consumers. There is a rumor they'll offer a 32 GB option later this year, though.

Yeah I'm living on hope on those rumours. But you are making a false dichotomy here - the choice was not between 32GB vs battery life - it was between 32GB and making it much thinner than anyone, needed, asked for or expected.

 

[Sanpete]

Yeah I'm living on hope on those rumours. But you are making a false dichotomy here - the choice was not between 32GB vs battery life - it was between 32GB and making it much thinner than anyone, needed, asked for or expected.

It is a choice between 32 GB and battery life. The extra 23 WH a larger battery could supply isn't enough to make up for the extra power use of desktop RAM over the typical amount of time a battery would hold out, which is supposed to be 10 hours for the 2016 15". Using DDR4 eats up (by the best estimates I can find) 5 to 84 more watt-hours over ten hours. That's 5 WH more if merely idling for ten hours, and up to 84 WH more under full load continuously for ten hours. Further, it would make App Nap drain the battery way too quickly, as the machines using that often don't enter standby but keep power to the RAM while sleeping.

In addition, we don't know that the battery space is too small for a 99 WH battery. It's certainly big enough for a larger battery than is in it.

The facts we do know are that the battery life was was significantly improved, and the machine was made thinner and lighter, and yet some people complain about both!

 

[The Mercurian]

It is a choice between 32 GB and battery life. The extra 23 WH a larger battery could supply isn't enough to make up for the extra power use of desktop RAM over the typical amount of time a battery would hold out, which is supposed to be 10 hours for the 2016 15". Using DDR4 eats up (by the best estimates I can find) 5 to 84 more watt-hours over ten hours. That's 5 WH more if merely idling for ten hours, and up to 84 WH more under full load continuously for ten hours. Further, it would make App Nap drain the battery way too quickly, as the machines using that often don't enter standby but keep power to the RAM while sleeping.

In addition, we don't know that the battery space is too small for a 99 WH battery. It's certainly big enough for a larger battery than is in it.

The facts we do know are that the battery life was was significantly improved, and the machine was made thinner and lighter, and yet some people complain about both!

Right, right right. The point is Dell can fit 32Gb into the XPS. DELL can bring this to market - the consumer has the choice to buy it or not. If you are doing memory hungry stuff you are not going to run on battery for 10 hours anyway. By the way I don't agree with your assertion that battery life was improved. Aren't lots complaining aobut battery life not being good enough ?

 

[burgman]

Exactly Apple only follows the money such is the nature of the market. Apple's focus is lifestyle products, they ceased being a computer company years ago, today we see the results, never has less is more been more appropriate. Today Apple only serves Apple, with the Mac customer being very far from the top of the list.

From a business perspective I simply don't trust Apple not to abandon or pick up product lines as they see fit, or when Apple feels the tech press response may negatively impact it's reputation. All in all a sad state of affairs Apple could have made such a difference, it didn't Apple just followed the money. 80% is good enough for the common user, however those of us that rely on such systems for a living expect more...

Q-6

Never understand these type of posts. Please provide a successful business that serviced a shrinking customer base in one segment and ignored other wildly successful divisions? Microsoft writing off 7 Billion dollars on Windows phone comes to mind. Tech landscape is littered with failures from not focusing on the bottom line and making products the largest customer will buy year after year. The kinda pretentious "those of us who rely on such systems expect more" Possibly don't understand the right tool for the job as it is, not some predefined wishlist. Which circles back to pretentious

 

[Sanpete]

Right, right right. The point is Dell can fit 32Gb into the XPS. DELL can bring this to market - the consumer has the choice to buy it or not. If you are doing memory hungry stuff you are not going to run on battery for 10 hours anyway.

It doesn't have to be very memory-hungry stuff to more than use up an extra 23 WH. The XPS does indeed offer 32 GB, and that's one reason it does indeed get significantly worse battery life than the 2016 MBP. The XPS models with only 16 GB get worse battery life than they could too, since they also have to use desktop RAM in order to have the option of upgrade. That's the trade-off. You may care more about the extra RAM, but it appears most people care more about the extra battery life.

By the way I don't agree with your assertion that battery life was improved. Aren't lots complaining aobut battery life not being good enough ?

As I explained above on this page in response to Nilhum, it's the 13" with touch bar that people are mostly complaining about. The vast majority with the 15" are finding the battery life to be very good, better than for earlier models. For carefully controlled professional tests, check the reviews by Ars Technica and Notebook Check, among others, for the 2015 and 2016 15" models.

 

[SDColorado]

it was between 32GB and making it much thinner than SOME, needed, asked for or expected.

Fixed it for you. For others, like myself, the thinness and lightness of the new units, was a key factor in the upgrade decision. I purchased it with the idea of giving my wife my older 15" and selling my 13". I love my new 15" MPB and the form factor is a big reason for that love.

 

[csurfr]

That's odd that Apple offered no help. Most of us get help from Apple about those kinds of things.

Weeks of troubleshooting with no resolution in sight. The engineers have / had no idea what was causing it. No amounts of data capture would shed any light on the issue. I took photos and videos to document what was going on. No joy.

I simply grew tired of not being able to get any work done and spend my time troubleshooting for Apple. In the end I didn't have a choice, it had to go.
[doublepost=1488420855][/doublepost]

As I explained above on this page in response to Nilhum, it's the 13" with touch bar that people are mostly complaining about. The vast majority with the 15" are finding the battery life to be very good, better than for earlier models. For carefully controlled professional tests, check the reviews by Ars Technica and Notebook Check, among others, for the 2015 and 2016 15" models.

You might be correct about that. Mine was a 13" with the touch bar.

 

[MrX8503]

I have the nTB MBP 13" and it's the best laptop I've ever used. Got an LG 5K on the way and it's gonna be sweet to be able to dock with one cable. Yeah the MBP doesn't have any legacy ports, but it's got TB3 that can deliver 14M pixels to my eyeballs.

 

[CaptRB]

The battery for the 2016 is objectively worse. It is a 33 kilowatthours less for the 15 inch. Where have you gotten the idea that it is better. Even on these forums the polls show that most people are getting roughly 6 hours with light use and 60% brightness. The 2012-2015 was well above that in battery life.

The only new Macbook that has a good battery life the is non-TB 13 inch.

There are a lot of opinions here, most are just about useless and not based on actual experience.

I own both the 13 and 15" Touch Bar machines and I recently sold my 2015 rMBP 15".

The new machine gets better battery life. PERIOD. I had these machines side-by-side running PS and LR, as well as running videos. I'm shocked that people still carry on with these silly "alternative facts."

I'm sorry if a few people don't like the new MBP, but it's a fine machine for the MAJORITY of users and Apple exists to make money. They don't exist to build the exact machine you want. But the good news is that there are a ton of options.

The HUGE disconnect is that my new 15" Touch Bar bests last years Machine in so many ways. It's Apple's most sweeping set of improvements in years. And it only costs slightly more.

But again...the folks who continue to try to trash the machine are spitting into the wind and alternative facts don't help much...

This is the best notebook I've owned and I've owned MANY. They are used on still photography shoots tethered and as editing stations. The more I use it, the more it impresses me both as a writing tool and for my shooting. There is no better machine available that provides the overall experience of the new Touch Bar machines. It's that good.

Grinding teeth over Apple's success or a majority of happy owners isn't earning anyone any new friends.

Cheers,


R.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

For many people its a deal-breaker. There was a guy posted before about how his company which provides scientific equipment to thousands of customers would have to switch from Apple due to this point.


The rest of your post was simply attacking to OP and projecting your values and wants and needs onto everyone else. Practice what you preach friend.

Still very few people, a few people posting on here is not many people out of the millions of computers sold. Scientific calculations should be offloaded to a large desktop prferably a 12 core with 128gb or 256gb ram, if you are using a laptop for that work you are using the wrong tool for the job.

Not at all I was pointing out my preferences I specifically said I couldn't care less what anyone else buys and what their reasons are but as you seemed so intent on explaining what you want I thought an opposing view would provide some balance.

 

[The Mercurian]

It doesn't have to be very memory-hungry stuff to more than use up an extra 23 WH. The XPS does indeed offer 32 GB, and that's one reason it does indeed get significantly worse battery life than the 2016 MBP. The XPS models with only 16 GB get worse battery life than they could too, since they also have to use desktop RAM in order to have the option of upgrade. That's the trade-off. You may care more about the extra RAM, but it appears most people care more about the extra battery life.

As I explained above on this page in response to Nilhum, it's the 13" with touch bar that people are mostly complaining about. The vast majority with the 15" are finding the battery life to be very good, better than for earlier models. For carefully controlled professional tests, check the reviews by Ars Technica and Notebook Check, among others, for the 2015 and 2016 15" models.

Right. And how does the MBP hold up under load ? Because I can tell you my 16GB 2014 MBP will give about 6 hrs max if I kill unnecessary processes, dim the lights etc. However under load it won't do more than 2.5 - 3hours. None of them do when you are really pushing them.

Fixed it for you. For others, like myself, the thinness and lightness of the new units, was a key factor in the upgrade decision. I purchased it with the idea of giving my wife my older 15" and selling my 13". I love my new 15" MPB and the form factor is a big reason for that love.

Before it came out I didn't hear anyone saying "I was it was 25% thinner". Did you ? Truth is they could have made it 10-15% thinner and everyone would have been delighted. The extra space could have been battery and everyone would have been twice as delighted.

Still very few people, a few people posting on here is not many people out of the millions of computers sold. Scientific calculations should be offloaded to a large desktop prferably a 12 core with 128gb or 256gb ram, if you are using a laptop for that work you are using the wrong tool for the job.

Not at all I was pointing out my preferences I specifically said I couldn't care less what anyone else buys and what their reasons are but as you seemed so intent on explaining what you want I thought an opposing view would provide some balance.

Don't tell me how to do my job. The facts are this. I have no office. I travel alot for work. I need a laptop. Occasionally I also need 32GB. There are many like me. I DO have a desktop also. It goes unused most of the time. I want to sell it. I cannot unless I buy a 32GB laptop. It is devaluing. My current laptop has another year in it. I'd rather replace it with an Apple. If theres is no 32GB option, I'll have to, reluctantly, buy a Dell. There are many like me. And don't worry. Nobdoy is forcing you do buy a 32GB machine jsut because I want to.

 

[leman]

The battery for the 2016 is objectively worse. It is a 33 kilowatthours less for the 15 inch.

33 kilowatt-hours less, wow. I could power a tesla car on a 2015 MBP battery alone

Where have you gotten the idea that it is better.

Independent benchmarks, user reviews and also personal experience. What you are probably referring to are complains about certain bugs (especially related to GPU power states) that have long been fixed.

 

[The Mercurian]

This is the post by a scientician I was referring too. Note he is talking about thousands of users/computers:
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...y-life-concerns.2010291/page-24#post-23820850

 

[leman]

Agreed, sadly Apple seems completely incapable of producing a competent desktop computing solution, any doubting the same just need to view the forums...

Sorry, what is incompetent about the 5K iMac? It is still the best all-round all-in-one on the market and its competitively priced.

 

[ressac]

i would get dell if not macOS, Windows is such a crap OS, there is always something wrong with it

 

[leman]

This is the post by a scientician I was referring too. Note he is talking about thousands of users/computers:
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...y-life-concerns.2010291/page-24#post-23820850

That is a very specific niche and I don't think its fair to expect Apple to cater to this niche.

And besides, the 32GB debate is more complex than often thought. Its not only the battery life that takes a big hit, but also efficiency. A consumer-level quad-core CPU simply cannot consume that amount of RAM efficiently. If you really find yourself in a situation where you need to process such large quantities of data quickly, you really need workstation CPUs with quad-channel memory controllers or more. I would bet that most users that need 32GB (including the post you are quoting) simply suffer from suboptimal algorithms and badly programmed software which does not work with memory efficiently. For a work one can do on a laptop anyway, pairing of fast SSD with less RAM should not make much of a difference, as the next portion of data can be streamed in while the CPU is busy with consuming the previous batch.

 

[SDColorado]

Before it came out I didn't hear anyone saying "I was it was 25% thinner". Did you ? Truth is they could have made it 10-15% thinner and everyone would have been delighted. The extra space could have been battery and everyone would have been twice as delighted.

I wish it would have been 25% thinner and lighter back in 2013. It would have saved me the effort and expense of buying a 2014 13" model as a compromise that I never quite got along with.

 

[maflynn]

I hate a touchscreen on a laptop

I like them, I find it useful. Many other people seem to like them too. I guess one size doesn't fit all

, I have no need for 32gb very few people do

My work computer needs it, because I'm runnning multiple Vms, my home computer not so much. I'm not prepared to tell other people they don't need more then 16GB because they know their needs better then I do. Basically, I know I don't need it for my home usage, but I'm not going to say few people don't need it.

On another topic, I will say that it seems for my needs, OS X has been hampering more then windows has

I had to boot into windows 10 this morning, for one thing GotomyPC runs much better on windows then OS X. I was dealing with significant performance issues for some bizarre reason while connecting to my work computer. Rebooted into Windows and that problem disappeared.

VPN is another thing that doesn't seem to run well for me in OS X. I'm talking about corporate VPN client. Maybe I can spend an hour or two with my help desk to get it to work, or I can boot into Windows and work. I opted for the latter

 

[Sanpete]

Right. And how does the MBP hold up under load ? Because I can tell you my 16GB 2014 MBP will give about 6 hrs max if I kill unnecessary processes, dim the lights etc. However under load it won't do more than 2.5 - 3hours. None of them do when you are really pushing them.

Can't tell what you're getting at. Again, desktop RAM uses more power than laptop RAM. It worsens battery life. That's a plain and simple fact. Again, it can easily use more power than a 23 WH increase could make up for over ten hours, even without full load. That's the tradeoff with 32 GB RAM.

Again, you may care more about having more RAM, but it's evident that more people care about battery life.

You may not care about the size and weight of a laptop (which is strange, since portability is sort of the point). Most others do care. You can read comments here everyday about how size and weight are key considerations in choosing a laptop.

Again, there's already extra space for a larger battery. You're just ignoring plain facts when you complain about the fact that Apple both increased the battery life and decreased the size.