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suneohair

macrumors 68020
Aug 27, 2006
2,136
0
For European (Q4 2007) and especially for Asian (early 2008) customers iPhone is DOA. Think about it... GSM/EDGE phone as a modern smart phone :rolleyes: If you have ever downloaded mail attachments or any files with GSM/EDGE you know what I'm saying. Thats just painfully slow. Browsing web pages isn't pleasurable either. Modern smart phone needs to at least 3G or better yet 3.5G. Old GSM/EDGE just won't cut it in real use.

In Q1 2007 Nokia will be releasing N95 which is 3.5G smart phone that is far ahead of iPhone regarding the features and specs By the time iPhone arrives to Europe Nokia, SonyEricsson, Samsung, Moto etc. have released even better phones.

Anyway, I have to say I love iPhone's big screen and that lovely graphics chip and especially the design but thats far as it goes. iPod / phone combo would be great but I rather wait for that real wide screen video iPod that I can actually use without being afraid of running out of battery all the time.

DId it ever occur to you that the staggered release is so they can get 3G into the thing?

I highly doubt Apple will launch this phone with EDGE in Europe and Asia. It is not gonna happen.

Same thing as far as phone features. Pushing the roadmap for those countries out to late 2007 and 2008 will allow Apple to release a phone in those markets that can actually compete and offer the same features with all their new enhancements and takes on the smartphone.

I highly doubt that Apple will release the current iPhone in Europe or Asia when that time comes. By that time, there will another rev of the iPhone. One worthy of being released in those markets.

That being said. Not only does the iPhones new interface, gorgeous display (can the n95 touch it? http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/26/nokias-n95-smartphone-goes-legit/), sexy seamless integration between the three main functions make me want it. But above all Mac compatibility. I have a Treo 650. I can barely get it to work with my Mac. It is a huge PIMA.

There are things I want the iPhone to have:

1: Strong developed support. EVen if under Apples watch. Everyone wants to say well what if Apple controlled the apps on your Mac? That is a weak argument. A Computer is such a general tool. It can do ANYTHING. You can't restrict the apps on it. The iPhone is a phone. Yes, it does other things but of course I want it to work as a PHONE first. My Treo 650 has crashed many times from adding applications. Even apps I have paid for that are reputable. The platforms are simply not stable. Sure not everyone experiences that, but I can understand where Apple is coming from here. Besides, Steve did not say "No apps will be produced", he simpy said Apple would offer apps and there may be apps from developers that are certified (or something like that). They will not let the support of developers slip through their hands.

I think making this a stable platform should be first most important part right now. Apps can come later.

2: 3G and WiFi. THis is important. EDGE is indeed slow. Peak performance is never met. With this phone offering rich media, it needs 3G. Also, it would seem that it needs better WiFi performance as well. I don't know what he was connected to in the Hall though. He said 3G will come. So it may be best to just wait. The reason here is that it adds to the bulk of the device. The Pearl is EDGE. Hence its size. The Q does have 1xEVDO but it is a CDMA dual band phone which would allow for a 3G antenna. It is slightly lager as well. The Treo 750 is a brick.

For me that is it. Replacement battery. Meh. Don't care. It isn't the end of the world for me. I don't carry extra batteries around. If my phone dies. It dies. But carrying an iPod cable around isnt too hard. When the battery needs to be replaced I will stroll into an Apple repair shop and get it done. No need to send it off.

What it comes down to is this: If it doesnt do what you need it to do right now, don't buy it. Things may be a lot different in June. I say people start writing and strongly voicing these issues. That is the only way to get them to add those features (which wouldnt be hard) before launch. But who knows what they are working on and what they didnt show us. June gave them a lot of room to work with. Maybe even to get some feedback (despite the whole FCC thing) to see what they can jam in.

Lets just wait it out folks. They have til June. If then it doesnt have what you want. Wait til the next rev.

I may wait. As my sprint contract isnt up until March 08. By then there should be a snazzy iPhone out.
 

quigleybc

macrumors 68030
most of the cool kids i know have PDA-like phones - lots of treos and SK III, some symbians, a few WinMobs and one blackberry.

but then, cool kids aren't the majority... :D



I wish I was a cool kid :(

What it comes down to is this: If it doesnt do what you need it to do right now, don't buy it. Things may be a lot different in June. I say people start writing and strongly voicing these issues. That is the only way to get them to add those features (which wouldnt be hard) before launch. But who knows what they are working on and what they didnt show us. June gave them a lot of room to work with. Maybe even to get some feedback (despite the whole FCC thing) to see what they can jam in.

Lets just wait it out folks. They have til June. If then it doesnt have what you want. Wait til the next rev.

I may wait. As my sprint contract isnt up until March 08. By then there should be a snazzy iPhone out.


Great post, I totally agree. It's not out yet, let's wait and see how it ends up. Plus living in Canada, I'll get to see how all the folks in the USA like it, cuz it'll take longer to reach us up here.
 

post-prof

macrumors newbie
Jan 12, 2007
3
0
iphone rocks - Best portable and most powerful device ever made

The iphone rocks - It is by far the best portable and most powerful device ever made.

There are no decent devices in the market where you can listen to music and view coplicated PDF files at the same time (lack of power perhaps, I don't know) and I don't want to give $1000+for a portable handheld pc....:mad:

I am a European and I will just wait for the phone to be available in my country! It is the best portable device (ipod+video+phone+internet and pdf viewer). FYI, I already own a SE P900 with excel an word support. I have never really used them since the SE P900 screen is too small for spreadsheets and as for word docs is concerned you can easily convert them them into PDF format.

I think the iphone will be exactly what I need for my communication and entertainment needs. Great work apple!
 

suneohair

macrumors 68020
Aug 27, 2006
2,136
0
The iphone rocks - It is by far the best portable and most powerful device ever made.

There are no decent devices in the market where you can listen to music and view coplicated PDF files at the same time (lack of power perhaps, I don't know) and I don't want to give $1000+for a portable handheld pc....:mad:

I am a European and I will just wait for the phone to be available in my country! It is the best portable device (ipod+video+phone+internet and pdf viewer). FYI, I already own a SE P900 with excel an word support. I have never really used them since the SE P900 screen is too small for spreadsheets and as for word docs is concerned you can easily convert them them into PDF format.

I think the iphone will be exactly what I need for my communication and entertainment needs. Great work apple!

Good post. A lot of the complaining about missing features is just because they aren't there. Not because they need them. Don't get me wrong I know people do. But I for one have never used my Treo to open docs. PDFs would be a joke, but I haven't used the documents feature.

Does it bug me that the iPhone doesn't have it? Yes. Why? Because I want a device to have every possible option and I am a geek. I like specs. Will the iPhone do it? Probably.

This poster is right on point. For HIM the device does what he needs it to do. It isnt for everyone. Just like the Blackberry, Q, and Treo. If one phone was for everyone we would all have the same thing.

Besides, the fact that most people are taking the time to whine about it probably means they want it.
 

gwangung

macrumors 65816
Apr 9, 2003
1,113
91
.... but even those who couldn't see the point could see the function.

No, they couldn't--they were being even more myopic that the folks on this thread were.

Though I have to say they probably had better reading comprehension...(I mean, people are whining about "no third party apps"--STEVE DIDN'T SAY THAT. People are whining about no 3G--STEVE SAID 3G IS COMING).
 

post-prof

macrumors newbie
Jan 12, 2007
3
0
No, they couldn't--they were being even more myopic that the folks on this thread were.

Though I have to say they probably had better reading comprehension...(I mean, people are whining about "no third party apps"--STEVE DIDN'T SAY THAT. People are whining about no 3G--STEVE SAID 3G IS COMING).

I totally agree! People don't listen.

However, for me, 3G absence in v1 of the iphone is not a big deal. 3G is too expensive. I prefer WIFI and WIFI is available now.... :)
 

kruzader

macrumors newbie
Nov 2, 2006
5
0
iPhone

Apple takes on being one of the most innovative companies of our time. Putting new technologies in common sense for our chaotic-tech life style.

Loyal to their software, but their hardware...not that much hardware, I will wait once the bugs are out, new and cooler features go in, and other phone carriers get this model.

QUESTIONS: They announce they will hit Europe in 3rd or 4th quarter and Asia in 2008...so why Cingular? Doesn't T-Mobile have more of a global market? I'll say about 4 out of every 10 friends have Verizon, 5 T-mobile, sprint or nextel..and then one weird one with Cingular?

When you buy a phone do you consider its features or the service? Do you buy a fancy car that runs at times or a decent car that always gets you places when you want?

I hope this is not a Bad Apple. IF it is, it will atleast open the eyes of phone companies. Look at the ROKR big LEMON, but heck some one took that idea and came out with a CHOCOLATE...now how sweet is that for consumers.
 

amphi

macrumors newbie
Jun 4, 2003
16
0
Vaporware: "Vaporware is software or hardware which is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge, either with or without a protracted development cycle. The term implies unwarranted optimism, or sometimes even deception; that is, it may imply that the announcer knows that product development is in too early a stage to support responsible statements about its completion date, feature set, or even feasibility."

There's no reason to suspect it won't come out as/when promised. It's been pre-announced, but that does not make it vaporware.

I see this mistake a lot with regard to iPhone.

Indeed but any discussion of 'what may actually ship' is a discussion about vapourware. So while I have no doubt it will ship there is a substantial vapour ware aspect to all the heated debate.

So no I didn't make a mistake in my usage :cool:
 

kruzader

macrumors newbie
Nov 2, 2006
5
0
Good post. A lot of the complaining about missing features is just because they aren't there. Not because they need them. Don't get me wrong I know people do. But I for one have never used my Treo to open docs. PDFs would be a joke, but I haven't used the documents feature.

Does it bug me that the iPhone doesn't have it? Yes. Why? Because I want a device to have every possible option and I am a geek. I like specs. Will the iPhone do it? Probably.

This poster is right on point. For HIM the device does what he needs it to do. It isnt for everyone. Just like the Blackberry, Q, and Treo. If one phone was for everyone we would all have the same thing.

Besides, the fact that most people are taking the time to whine about it probably means they want it.

To be honest, since this device is essentially going to be a lifestyle PDA, and since devs are already on it, I'd imagine it wouldn't be long before something like an open office or Entourage in stripped form gets released on the device. I think the Flash/Java support is false, especially since the safari on the iPhone is said to be a 'full HTML desktop class application' I refuse to believe that these won't be supported on official release.

DUring the keynote when he zooms into the NY times page on the lower left corner there is a plugging missing? I'm sure it was a splash or Java plugin. Why will NY times take the risk to deliver information and make users go through the trouble of getting a special pluggin? On the web come on, i dont find it in 2 seconds... click.
 

amphi

macrumors newbie
Jun 4, 2003
16
0
The iPhone is a widescreen iPod with phone capabilities and Internet access. As such it is a successor to the top-level iPod (in price, functionality and status, unfortunately not in storage capacity). Its main fault is its high price, followed by the storage capacity.

I'd agree chances are that this is the new form factor for the top of the line iPods - no reason that fancy interface could be put to use on a media player sans phone.

The original iPod did cost $400 and had only 5 GB memory. It sold well enough and technology progressed fast enough that Apple was able to first offer 5 GB, than 10 GB, than 20 GB and currently 30 GB at a price point of $300, which helped its sales for sure.

The iPhone might follow that model, or it might suffer from its high pricing like the original iPod photos did.

Big difference is that with iPod/iTunes apple blew everything that came before out of the water (and most things since). Now current smartphones (and yes I know it will not be marketed as a smartphone) are less than wonderful to use but compared to the mp3 players that the original iPod competed against they are true models of user friendly integration.

What I can't, perhaps for sheer lack of imagination, see is exactly what about the iPhone blows away the competition. It is perhaps in some ways a better widget (and all us Mac users appreciate a better widget) but I doubt it is going to be an equivalent revenue stream to the iPod. Rather it is a lovely design marker - for the next 10 years all phone designs will probably be referenced against it. So it is undoubtedly a brilliant marker for Apple as a high end (high margin) brand.
 

barnaby

macrumors member
Oct 4, 2006
42
0
For European (Q4 2007) and especially for Asian (early 2008) customers iPhone is DOA. Think about it... GSM/EDGE phone as a modern smart phone :rolleyes: If you have ever downloaded mail attachments or any files with GSM/EDGE you know what I'm saying. Thats just painfully slow. Browsing web pages isn't pleasurable either. Modern smart phone needs to be at least 3G or better yet 3.5G. Old GSM/EDGE just won't cut it in real use.

In Q1 2007 Nokia will be releasing N95 which is 3.5G smart phone that is far ahead of iPhone regarding the features and specs By the time iPhone arrives to Europe Nokia, SonyEricsson, Samsung, Moto etc. have released even better phones.

Anyway, I have to say I love iPhone's big screen and that lovely graphics chip and especially the design but thats far as it goes. iPod / phone combo would be great but I rather wait for that real wide screen video iPod that I can actually use without being afraid of running out of battery all the time.

We'd be silly to assume that this is the model that will arrive in asia. They're not gonna be standing still for a year.

They'll probably announce a 2nd generation iPhone by next year's macworld. This one is going to be like the first generation MacBooks and iMacs which didn't even have 64bit processors. They got into the market, and then when they could, they added the Core2Duo.

Apple is serious about entering this market. I'd expect a model with a 3.2gigapixel camera and 3G or better. This will be the model that ships to asia which is much more competetive than the US in regards to cell phones.

I also find it interesting that Cocoa was a bullet on the slide for reasons for using OS X. Especially if the phone is going to be locked. It might be nice if they allow development of widgets (as opposed to full blown apps) which have limited access to the OS.

Realistically, Apple is aiming for 1% of the market, which I'm sure they'll get. Once they're established, expect this product to grow. It won't change much on the outside, but it'll change a lot on the inside.
 

barnaby

macrumors member
Oct 4, 2006
42
0
What I can't, perhaps for sheer lack of imagination, see is exactly what about the iPhone blows away the competition. It is perhaps in some ways a better widget (and all us Mac users appreciate a better widget) but I doubt it is going to be an equivalent revenue stream to the iPod. Rather it is a lovely design marker - for the next 10 years all phone designs will probably be referenced against it. So it is undoubtedly a brilliant marker for Apple as a high end (high margin) brand.

1) Mobile market is much bigger. They don't need as big a slice of the market for this to be a big revenue stream.

2) The UI is only going to improve, and as Steve said: they've patented the hell out of it. It can improve on the hardware front, the competition can't match them on the UI front.

3) The original iPod, when it came out was just as unreachably expensive, and only came out in one type. Now we have standard, nano and shuffle.
And no one will argue it's integration is best.

They managed to beat windows media player because iTunes had a better interface and it played the same music. They'll have a much harder time with ms office as most smartphones have some office integration.
Time will tell how they battle this one out. Business users won't be happy with only storing ms word documents they get as email attachments.

If PDF is better than it is on PDA's and smartphones, i for one will love it as I use PDF much more than word as a document format.

Time will tell in the end
 

Grakkle

macrumors 6502a
Oct 6, 2006
624
2
Earth
All that Cingluar asks in return is exclusivity (for now) and a 2-year contract with them when you purchase. After exclusivity is over, I'm sure Apple will just sell the phone unlocked through its stores like it will do in Europe. At launch in the US, I don't think a significant number of American consumers care enough to have an unlocked phone to make it a big issue and sacrifice the deal with Cingluar.

As I stated in my earlier post, given what most carriers do to their phones in the US in terms of crippling (Verizon being the worst), Apple got really lucky that Cingular is subsidizing for practically nothing except the contract.

The contract limitation is a pretty big deal IMO. It's really a HUGE cap on the phone's versatility, and while I might spend $600 or even more for an unlocked phone (if it was a good one) I would not spend $600 for a locked phone, even the iPhone. Too expensive for what it is.
 

barnaby

macrumors member
Oct 4, 2006
42
0
Last time I checked OSX was XNU kernel + libc.

Everything else is value add for the Macintosh platform.

Now I agree with you that I would like to see more freedom, but lets keep these definitions, straight, please! Apple is not lying or even stretching the truth by claiming this thing runs a full OSX. It _does_ run a full OSX. It just appears that many people have a misunderstanding about what an operating system is.

He did include Cocoa and Cora Animation on the slide for reasons why to include it. I think we're talking about more than the kernel here. I agree that it's unlikely to be the entire OS.

I don't think we're going to find out any time soon how far it goes.
 

feffer37

macrumors newbie
Jan 7, 2004
24
0
East Lansing, MI
Negative Opinions

Sure, you're entitled to your negative opinions about the iPhone, but this bad flap is absolutely insane! It's just like all of you mac-zealots who complained about the iPod, and about every other cool and innovative product that Apple came out with. I mean, sweet jesus you guys, we've been screaming for a full screen ipod, and lone and behold, here it is! What, it's got a phone in it too, so I don't have to carry around 2 devices in my pocket?!?! Wait, and I can surf the internet with this thing?!?!!? Holy crap, I'd pay a Thousand for that convenience!!! $599 is a S-T-E-A-L!!!

You nay-sayers have GOT to put some perspective on this thing. Cool your horses, wait for the actual phone to come out in it's June release, and then render your opinions. And for that matter, for all of the complaining the mac-masses cried over the iPod, isn't it strange that EVERYONE now carries an iPod?!?!

Nuff Said.
 

amphi

macrumors newbie
Jun 4, 2003
16
0
1) Mobile market is much bigger. They don't need as big a slice of the market for this to be a big revenue stream.

but the patch where this first iteration is competing is a much smaller market and dominated by corporate buyers. No way that apple wants any part of the low/no margin bulk of the market.

2) The UI is only going to improve, and as Steve said: they've patented the hell out of it. It can improve on the hardware front, the competition can't match them on the UI front.

agreed, one thing that struck me when this was demoed was the idea that (with wifi) you have an almost perfect front end for an appleTV/media server solution. A sonos remote on steroids - the sonos is nice but only provides an audio solution. An iPhone would make the perfect remote/communicator for in house media control and net access (in addition to the odd phone call).

Time will tell in the end

The cynic in me thinks that the cingular deal says a lot about apples plans - the upfront and ongoing cash they will receive by locking it up will no doubt make up for a big chunk of the development and initial production run costs. Not to mention that if it fails to take off they can always blame the service provider ;)
 

Object-X

macrumors 6502a
Aug 3, 2004
633
142
The iFlip!

Who pays $600 for a cell phone besides business users who are going to require Outlook integration?

The same people who paid $400 for the first iPod when everyone said that was crazy. Sheesh. Count me in. Saving my pennies.

Besides, this is much more than a cell phone. It will become a platform. First gen devices are always expensive. Just wait, before long there will be the iPhone Nano, the iPhone flip (or iFlip!), ect. :)
 

rjwill246

macrumors 6502
Feb 22, 2003
415
0
USA (often) and Adelaide, OZ
You are so right

DId it ever occur to you that the staggered release is so they can get 3G into the thing?

The complaints about this device vs what is already out there are amazing. I was shopping for phones in the UK, France and Australia a few weeks ago and while they ARE capable of more than the CURRENT iteration of the iPhone, the bits and pieces cost a fortune. In each country, my friends needed SMS services because they considered regular phone use (talking) too expensive!!! Hello!!!!! I need my phone to TALK, not send bloody messages-- that is soooooo low tech and useless... I cannot believe the number of people I saw on the Tube doing messaging instead of talking--- get a grip! TALK for crying out loud.

And that may explain in large part why the US is NOT into messaging. It is slow, and it avoids talking, which is a far more natural meas of communication than sending writen messages-- really, really pathetic. Here, our European counterparts are basically screaming for a system that only does pedestrian tasks. I want to TALK not write messages... that is so low brow!!!

Even with its clearly compromised potential, this is an amazing device that no other phone can equal for all it does-- and it isn't only a phone!!!! Wait for the months to unfold and see where this puppy, based on the best OS out there, OS X, goes. It is sure to get to state of the art in no short order--- then, our poorer cousins might be able to actually talk to people at a reasonable price and not have to use an idiotic keyboard to communicate if their servic providers offered decent prices-- something that is sorely lacking right now. To get over 1000 VOICE minutes for 60 odd bucks a monhs in the US is not exceptional--- I tried that in the UK and Australia and couldn't believe the prices. In addition, no country that I have come across offers the same speed on the Internet for computing that the US does for such low prices. So these complaints from outside the US are odd---- In any case, 3G is likely, then hang on for 4G--- they are just around the corner.
 

stephenli

macrumors 6502
Jul 1, 2004
286
0
I suppose iPhone would have its 3G version by 2008, as one of its major market - JAPAN - does not use GSM network.....

really shocked that the phone have SIM-Lock... i was planning to get one and use other network regardless of 2 yr contract...
and how come it doesnt support flash and java....cannot believe.....

btw how about .mac?! how about mail account @mac.com?!
Yahoo!?.....well....i really want .mac.....
 

shrimpdesign

macrumors 6502a
Dec 9, 2005
609
2
I think a lot of people are looking at this wrong.

The iPhone isn't a smartphone. Remember the keynote? Steve said they were releasing an iPod, a phone and a internet communicator. I think they covered the three basic needs for a mobile device.

Personally, I carry around a phone, an iPod and a Nokia 770.

The phone was about $30 with a 2-year contract, my iPod was $79 and my Nokia 770 was $350. Now if I add the prices up it's 529 (after changing the iPod's price to the reasonable price of a 2GB Nano).

So that's enough to get a 4GB iPhone. I know I would definately jump on that. And not only would I only have to carry one device, my phone would FINALLY sync with iCal and I would have a much better video watching expirience than the Nokia 770.

The iPhone may not be a good choice for you, but I doubt it'll fail. It's going to be extremely popular.

Remember, the iPod had a lot less features than mp3 players back then, but with it's exceptional input device (scroll wheel) and overall simplicity.
 

chubad

macrumors 6502
Feb 1, 2004
325
1
Frozen Wasteland
This from David Pogues blog Today in the comments section:

"NEWS FLASH! Just spoke to a recent Apple ex-programmer who says that, in fact, the decision on third-party widgets has not yet been made. So maybe there’s a backdoor to adding new apps to this phone after all."
 

suneohair

macrumors 68020
Aug 27, 2006
2,136
0
I suppose iPhone would have its 3G version by 2008, as one of its major market - JAPAN - does not use GSM network.....

really shocked that the phone have SIM-Lock... i was planning to get one and use other network regardless of 2 yr contract...
and how come it doesnt support flash and java....cannot believe.....

btw how about .mac?! how about mail account @mac.com?!
Yahoo!?.....well....i really want .mac.....

No need for supposition when you follow up with a fact about Japan's network. It WILL have 3G by 08 at the latest. No doubts.

The bulk that is added to a quad band wifi phone isn't what Apple wants. In a year the tech will shrink and they can fit it in the same package. I personally don't want a brick like the Treo 750 or a dual band Q for the sake of having speeds not available in my area.

SIM-lock. That is probably apart of the agreement with Cingular. The new legislation might allow users to get an unlock code anyway. I havent looked into it much.

.mac is simple. Apple doesn't have near the amount of infrastructure that Yahoo has for delivering push mail to millions of iPhone users.

Maybe the mail can be .mac but tied to Yahoo? Forwarding maybe so you can use the .Mac?

The server limitations are likely the reason for no .Mac action.
 

Bali Cockfight

macrumors regular
Aug 17, 2002
117
0
Chi Town
Remember this though, if Apple let every Tom Dick and Harry develop for the Mac platform the chances are pretty high that you'd get the same old crap thats on the current PDA's let alone PC's.

Seriously have you seen the apps available for some of Palms models. They are awful.

That's right! Look at how discerning Apple is with widget developers. [sarcasm]
 

jhedges3

macrumors regular
Sep 11, 2003
133
0
NY, NY
I really, really hope that iPhone can open attached .doc and .xls files.... :(

Why?

Why would anyone want to read, edit, or create these sorts of documents on an iPhone? It just doesn't seem like the right device for it. Why not just wait until you get to your desktop or your laptop? Do you really get attached .doc and .xls files that are that important? I don't.
 
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