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Go back and read the other THOUSAND posts that state clearly how and what crime was committed by the parties involved. Also, what if I said I was there and Gray never had a drink? How do YOU know he was drunk and lost it?

If I had a prototype iPhone, I would:
a) not be carrying it into a BAR. And that too, a German one.
b) have it secured, and secure it on me at all times
c) certainly check my pockets to reassure myself that I had it on me, as I'm leaving a public place

Again, regardless of how you look at it, it goes to claim that the employee was careless and LOST it. It is safe to argue here that he was likely drunk to have lost a prototype iPhone. I would win the argument over yours, because he did end up losing it.
 
Apple doesn't need to demand anything about the process, Giz published the process for all to see, including the police....:eek:

Apple didn't obtain a search warrant. Outside of law enforcement it is impossible to obtain a search warrant. Where do you get this notion that apple called up the DA and said search Jason's home and give us his computers?

The "finder" is protected under the law, at this time, to my understanding.

Fair enough mate, and I'm not claiming anything ... I'm just giving my opinion based on my understanding of what's being disclosed so far by the likes of MacRumors, etc. Whether my understanding is right or wrong, is of course questionable.

While Apple may not have given Jason Chen's name and demanding his home be searched, it was searched because Apple demanded legal action be taken against Gizmodo, so they're the source of the actions. Obviously any "legal investigation" and the people investigated during it are at the discretion of the investigating officials, so as you say it very well could have been the authorities who ordered the raid on Chen's home.

However, you won't stop any niggling doubt in some people that the egomaniac himself, Steve Jobs, has had far more input into who is to "blame" and who has to be "punished".

As I said, I know Apple is a business and I love the company and love their products, and have been an Apple customer for a decade now. It's just disappointing when every day on here it's rumours of someone being fired for this, someone being punished for that ...
 
If I had a prototype iPhone, I would:
a) not be carrying it into a BAR. And that too, a German one.
b) have it secured, and secure it on me at all times
c) certainly check my pockets to reassure myself that I had it on me, as I'm leaving a public place

Again, regardless of how you look at it, it goes to claim that the employee was careless and LOST it. It is safe to argue here that he was likely drunk to have lost a prototype iPhone. I would win the argument over yours, because he did end up losing it.
But the employee didn't break any laws. Where as Gizmodo did break the law. So DA is investigating it.
 
If I had a prototype iPhone, I would:
a) not be carrying it into a BAR. And that too, a German one.
b) have it secured, and secure it on me at all times
c) certainly check my pockets to reassure myself that I had it on me, as I'm leaving a public place

Again, regardless of how you look at it, it goes to claim that the employee was careless and LOST it. It is safe to argue here that he was likely drunk to have lost a prototype iPhone. I would win the argument over yours, because he did end up losing it.

PROVE that he lost, PROVE that it wasn't lifted off of his person....

Regardless if drinking took place or not, that does not give another person the right to take your property and sell it to someone else. What if he checked periodically, what if he checked when he left? The phone could have been lifted and he guy left right away...

You will not win an argument based on your opinion. Again, you keep saying he lost it, prove he lost it.
 
PROVE that he lost, PROVE that it wasn't lifted off of his person....

Regardless if drinking took place or not, that does not give another person the right to take your property and sell it to someone else. What if he checked periodically, what if he checked when he left? The phone could have been lifted and he guy left right away...

You will not win an argument based on your opinion. Again, you keep saying he lost it, prove he lost it.

Works both ways genius....PROVE it was stolen? see how that works? And something tells me "winning arguments" with the fanboys is impossible from the go..they are oblivious to reality.
 
Is it possible that the way that Gray lost the phone is: he was carrying 2 phones his personal iphone and the proto..as he left the bar he checked his pockets and felt the phone figuring it was the proto and continued home..then relized the phone he felt in his pocket was his personal phone..

I have done something similar..everytime i get out of my car i check my pockets to make sure my keys are there before i close the door..i did that went into my house a few hours later i cleaned out my pockets and i had the company keys in my pocket (these were keys to internal doors at a company that probably 99% of the people here hates hehe)..my personal car keys were sitting on the seat safely locked in the car...

Just showing a different possible reason for the lost phone...
 
Has this been posted yet?
 

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And what about the Trade Secrets that Gizmodo revealed to Apple's competitors?

Even if Gizmodo broke trade secrets or any other law for that matter, a big if, that does not mean that the protections offered to them under the law, in this case the shield laws regarding Journalists being exempt from having devices they use for journalism, no longer apply. They still have those protections, not matter what law they have broken.

King Mook Mook
 
Works both ways genius....PROVE it was stolen? see how that works? And something tells me "winning arguments" with the fanboys is impossible from the go..they are oblivious to reality.

Prove it was stolen, hmmm.....


According to California law, if you find another person's property you must do your due diligence to locate he owner. If you are unable to locate the owner and the value of said property is $100 or more the item must be turned over to the police for a period of time. If the "finder" of said property does not follow the aforementioned steps and sells the property then that person has committed theft under the law of California.

So according to the law, it was stolen. More to your point, nope, I can't prove it wasn't lifted out of Gray's pocket not did I claim it was. I merely stated what if(s) since most people like to say it's Gray's fault for being a drunk and losing a prototype.

I was merely drawing your, and others, attention to the fact the no one can prove what happened that night. So it goes without question that people shouldn't be on here blaming Gray for losing the phone.
 
too many internet / google prosecution lawyers quoting pure rubbish here.

Again, I cringe every time I read "buying stolen goods", it needs "allegedly" in there, every time. And nobody is "guilty" of anything until it's proven in a court of law.

Anything Gizmodo posted on their website about the phone is not an admission, anyone and everyone has to be cautioned before you can use it as an admission, otherwise it's just "hear-say" - which is where that term comes from.

And all Gizmodo have to say is that they paid nothing for the phone. The $5,000 was for the unverified story - a fair sum that jounalists pay all the time for a leading story.

Let's drop all talk of Apple suing for millions just now, this is a criminal investigation. Once it's complete, whatever the outcome, Apple may pursue some civil action. And although the burden of proof required is completely different - another fact missed by all the internet prosecution lawyers here - they will have to show a financial loss due to the Gizmodo posts if they go for damages. And they will have to be able to show every cent as a loss, not just pick some obscene number of millions of dollars.

What is more likely, is that Apple wants to ensure that none of the technical details or data of the phone has been leaked to rivals. What Gizmodo (and this site) posted on the iPhone was pretty bland, it's not going to give any competitors an edge before this model is released. In fact compared to the iPhone 3GS, the most exciting thing was the new shape (flat rear).

Brace yourself for cringing. If the finder/seller actually told Gizmodo the tale it reported on its website, and if the seller told Gizmodo the truth, then the seller is guilty of theft, pure and simple. There is no requirement to say "allegedly" outside of Mrs. Murphy's journalism class. You will never hear a prosecuting attorney ask for the death penalty by saying that the evidence supports the conclusion that the defendant is allegedly guilty. People are guilty of things all the time that are never taken to court, and other people are free to say so.

So let's move on now to the rules of evidence. An admission is admissible in evidence against a criminal defendant; of course it is hearsay, but it is one of the many exceptions to the general hearsay rule. It is trustworthy because people don't often say things that are against their own interest unless they are true. We sorted this out a few hundred years ago, by the way; you'll want to keep up. Okay, and this requirement that someone admitting facts that evidence his guilt of a crime? Turns out that only applies to a custodial admission, and the rule was adopted to protect people in police custody from having a confession coerced from them. Since presumably there was no policeman holding reporters captive in Gizmodo's offices when they wrote the story that appeared on their website, there was no one there to caution them, nor was there any need to. As a matter of fact, when you read their account, it may sound a bit like gloating.

And the difference in burden of proof between a criminal and civil trial did not escape notice; no more than anyone neglected to mention that judges often seem to wear black robes. These are things that are widely known, apparently even to people who know little else about the legal system.

And yes, Apple and its engineer, if they pursue their civil remedies, may be required to prove their damages, but the award need not be limited to their actual loss. They may be awarded punitive or exemplary damages which are intended to punish the defendant, and not to make the injured party whole. Moreover, Apple will be entitled to a multiple of the value of the stolen test iPhone, not just its proven value. And if Gizmodo is found to have defamed the Apple engineer who lost the phone, it may be deemed to be libel per se, and damages will be presumed even without proof of specific dollar loss. So there is no equivalence between the proven direct loss and the verdict, let alone to the cent.

I'll leave it to those more aware than I am of the value to a competitor of seeing the images of the test phone to determine the likely damage to Apple of having information divulged. Nonetheless, common sense would dictate that a competitor knowing that the next iPhone will contain a forward-facing camera will be better able to avoid making the wrong decision about whether or not to include that feature in his new models. Knowing that the new phone will have a battery with significantly more running time may cause a competitor to incorporate similar technology in his devices to avoid being placed at a competitive disadvantage. I would not be as insouciant as you regarding the damages that Apple may be able to prove it suffered as a result of the premature disclosure of its trade secrets.

So when you get ready to discard the pure rubbish you say you've found on this thread, I've got a few more things for you to add to the pile.
 
I came to a funny realization. When you watch the old 1984 Apple ad, you come to the realization that Apple isn't the one trying to break through to the brainwashed masses. They are Big Brother themselves.
 
My dream

is that one day, commenters and bloggers and posters and tweeters learn how to spell "no one" and "lose"
 
It's also very interesting to see Gizmodo's legal response which seems to hinge on a blog being a 'newspaper, magazine or other periodical publication' and I'm not entirely convinced that's how the legal system sees it. On a related note it's telling that even the Giz legal rep comes across as a bit of a dick when you read his 'this man is a journalist' letter.
"The California Court of Appeal has recognized that these protections apply to online journalists"
 
Apple looks bad because they appear to be the storm troopers of recent. Whether it be heavy enforcement of app store rules and then to this. Even if they didn't have a hand in this, it looks bad on them.

As far as the police, give me a break. Even though legally they may be justified, seems a little funny that an iPhone proto can generate this much effort. There must be little or no crime in California.

Rational arguments have nothing to with this. In land of rational, none of us would own apple computers or buy the Apple reality distortion field.

Just for the record, I have a 3GS, 2 AEs, MBP, and Octo 2.26. I love my Apple stuff but I'm not a fanboy. I can see Apple going the way of MS in terms of public perception if they are not careful.


This is just....LOL.

"The California Court of Appeal has recognized that these protections apply to online journalists"

Irrelevant. Journalists are only protected from revealing their sources of information. Doesn't apply here.
 
How disappointing.

Further proof that Apple have lost track of what they once were.

Are Apple right to demand answers over the circumstances surrounding the new iPhone prototype and it's journey into Gizmodo's hands? Of course they are.

However, are obtaining warrants to remove computer equipment from the editor of the website's home a justified action? I wouldn't say so.

...

Today though, I'm a far more sensible and objective person. Apple are a business, they exist to make their shareholders money. Brand loyalty is worth nothing these days, and the sad thing is that the happy-go-lucky company who strived to "Think Different" have ended up, through corporate growth and financial greed, managed to turn out like every other corporation.

Shame.

Read this slowly. Apple did not obtain any warrants. Apple is not the police. Apple is the victim of a crime. Why you would pick this moment, when Apple has been victimized by the theft of an extremely valuable prototype to be sad and ashamed of them is utterly baffling.
 
Given my family's needs, I am the owner of two ibooks, four powerbooks, three macbooks, four macbook pros, four iPhone's, two iPad's and numerous ipods. I do not consider myself a fanboy, but I feel that Apple's actions here are truly despicable. Noone stole anything. Apple's employee got drunk and lost the iPhone. I would temporarily suspend the employee for being careless, and call it a day. If Apple does not drop charges, the iPads I purchased a couple of weeks back will be my last Apple purchase.

No offense but you're a bit of a jacka$$.

You do realize that you've accepted as the whole truth, the story of a person that positioned himself to gain $5,000 and remain anonymous. The most suspect person in this whole thing, and you just take it all as truth because you read it. If I tell you the Earth is flat, will you go driving around your neighborhood screaming it to the people?

How do you know the Apple employee was drunk? Did you give him a breathalyzer? How do you not know for sure that the person that found the phone didn't actually steal it?

The person that got outed and had his information all over the internet, has not given any interviews, has not spoken publicly about this incident at all. Perhaps him and the police know something that you in all your infinite wisdom happened to look over?

I'm sure everyone at Apple is real worried over your threat of returning your iPads.
 
Chen was in possession of stolen property, the police raided his house.

You have no evidence the Apple had sway in the matter, it could merely be the media attention.

Take off your fanboy hat for a minute and think about what happened here...where does the burden of proof lie regarding the legality of this lost iPhone? Have they investigated the person who allegedly sold it to Gizmodo?

This is despicable and makes me embarrassed to be an owner of Apple stock and computers. Granted, I'm not about to sell either, but this makes me think twice about the company should it come to light they had anything to do with this.
 
i realize that but they cant go and take all there servers and computers because they reported it. If you were a journalist writing a story, the law would protect you and you would be even less likely to have this happen to you. Section 1524(g) of the California Penal Code states that no search warrant can be issued to a publisher, editor or reporter in electronic or print media, in relation to any story they were working on or their sources. thats why gismodo should be left out in the way that they didn't steal it in any way. the only reproduction at this point is they would have to give it back (only if the seller actually stole it).

Oh, you've been listening to that devilish COO of Gizmodo again, haven't you? You naughty doctor you, you know that will get you thinking improper thoughts.

So imagine this. You are a very wealthy man (some of those excavated artifacts are pretty valuable!), and one day a noted jewel thief, aware that your new young wife has an appreciation for large diamonds, approaches you saying that he is short on funds and will let you have his latest heist, consisting of $3 million market value of diamonds-- just the sort your wife adores--for a mere $1 million. You love the idea, but you are concerned about being charged with a crime. So you consult with your best friend who just happens to be an ex-solicitor from England who moved to the U.S. to take a job here. He thinks a moment and hatches a clever plot: he advises you to go into the blogging business. You blog about jewelry, who is designing what, what the mines are doing, and how jewel thieves operate. You even include some little tidbits about jewel thievery picked up during your chats with the cash-strapped thief. Naturally your "researcher" does much of the real work, but you look it over, and put your by-line on the blog. You then conduct feverish negotiations with the jewel thief via email from your MacBook Pro, and ultimately take the jewels and pay the money. You then publish a feature on your blog with photos of your wife proudly modeling her new diamonds.

Someone who had the diamonds stolen from him thinks he recognizes several pieces as being the ones he once had and calls the police. The police, in the company of an expert jeweler, carefully examine the photos on the blog and compare them to the archival photos of the jewels provided by the victim. The jeweler swears out an affidavit saying that in his professional opinion, the jewels are the same. The District Attorney takes the affidavit and an application for a search warrant to a judge asking him to issue a warrant for the sheriff to search your home and your MacBook Pro for diamonds and for any evidence of emails, appraisals, business cards, etc. Do you seriously think that the fact that you wrote a blog about your stolen jewels is going to protect you from being searched?
 
Take off your fanboy hat for a minute and think about what happened here...where does the burden of proof lie regarding the legality of this lost iPhone? Have they investigated the person who allegedly sold it to Gizmodo?

This is despicable and makes me embarrassed to be an owner of Apple stock and computers. Granted, I'm not about to sell either, but this makes me think twice about the company should it come to light they had anything to do with this.

First off, they can't investigate the person that sold the iPhone to Giz, it's protected under the Privacy Act - you know a few pages back in this thread that actual article was posted verbatim for people to read.

The legality lies with Giz's own published articles on how they obtained it, again read for the last few pages and you'll get actual cited California law clearly stating what law was broken by the parties involved.
 
Take off your fanboy hat for a minute and think about what happened here...where does the burden of proof lie regarding the legality of this lost iPhone? Have they investigated the person who allegedly sold it to Gizmodo?

This is despicable and makes me embarrassed to be an owner of Apple stock and computers. Granted, I'm not about to sell either, but this makes me think twice about the company should it come to light they had anything to do with this.

You replace apple employee with any other employee in another company, they will do the same thing. I work for a financial firm, we have more sensitive data in our company owned laptop, so if I ever misplace it, i will report it to the police. Then it is upto the police to investigate.
 
NOT stolen, genius. How was the phone stolen if it was left in a bar on a stool with no name or return info? What were they suppose to do? Track him down at the Apple compound?


LOST phone =/= stolen.

if you sell and make profit off someone else' property, its as good as stealing, as per California law, it seems.
 
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