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Police Seize Gizmodo Editor's Computers and Other Property Related to Lost Next-Generation iPhone

XciteMe said:
NOT stolen, genius. How was the phone stolen if it was left in a bar on a stool with no name or return info? What were they suppose to do? Track him down at the Apple compound?


LOST phone =/= stolen.
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Your post = uninformed

According to California law, if you find property valued at $100 or more and you cannot find the owner of the property you must turn it over to a law enforcement agency for a period of time. If you do not take the aforementioned steps and you in turn sell the property you then have committed theft.

Thus theft = stolen
 
XciteMe said:
NOT stolen, genius. How was the phone stolen if it was left in a bar on a stool with no name or return info? What were they suppose to do? Track him down at the Apple compound?


LOST phone =/= stolen.
Click to expand...
It's not the usual definition of theft, but California law defines what happened that way.
 
Something else to chew on....

When Gizmodo published their scoop last Monday, they stated they had had the iPhone for "about a week". That would put it in their possession on or about April 12.

Further, in one of their stories, they explained that Gray Powell "lost" the iPhone on March 18.

March 18 to April 12. That's 3.5 weeks.

What was the thief doing with the iPhone in that 3.5 weeks? Did he stash the iPhone in some secret place in case the authorities came knocking at the door? Did he finally, after 3 weeks, believe the "coast was clear" and only then decide to sell the iPhone?

In my mind, that length of time lends suspicion to the thought that the thief KNEW he was guilty of a crime.

Or, maybe it just took him 3.5 weeks to find somebody stupid enough to buy it? :)

Mark
 
sethypoo said:
Take off your fanboy hat for a minute and think about what happened here...where does the burden of proof lie regarding the legality of this lost iPhone? Have they investigated the person who allegedly sold it to Gizmodo?

This is despicable and makes me embarrassed to be an owner of Apple stock and computers. Granted, I'm not about to sell either, but this makes me think twice about the company should it come to light they had anything to do with this.
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The local police force there has a task force just for investigating these sorts of crimes. Apple or the engineer probably did report the phone stolen but it is possible that the police saw or were alerted to Gizmodo's posts and decided to investigate.

Either way, Gizmodo broke at least 2 laws. Maybe the shield law will protect Chen/Giz or maybe it won't but how is Apple in the wrong here?
 
BillHarrison said:
According to california code, the item was only "Stolen" if the finder did not make "Reasonable" attempt to return the item. A phone call is REASONABLE attempt.

He does not have to use facebook, ibook, paypal, anything. If he attempted to call the owner (apple) and was shunned, then I think thats more than enough.

However, I have to wonder, at what point DOES it become stolen? I mean, Apple has the phone back. So was it ever stolen? Just because money traded hands does that mean its "Stolen"? If I find your lost dog, and I ask you to give me 50 bucks for gas to drive it to your house, is it now stolen? Was it stolen when he walked out of the bar?

Or was it never stolen because it was as Follows:

1: Lost
2: Found
3: Passed to 3rd Party (W/ Funds exchanging Hands)
4: Returned to apple

Does exchanging funds on a "Lost" item turn it into a stolen item? In what way?

I don't feel that automatically turns it into a stolen item. I mean, lets say my neighbor loses her dog. I am sitting at home a week later and a guy walks up and says hey, do you know who this dog belongs too, I found it last week. I say sure! It looks like my neighbors dog, she lost last week. But I have no way to contact her till tommorrow. He says hey, i hate to do this but I really need the 100 bucks I spent on dog food this week to feed this beast.

Now I hand him a 100 dollar bill, and take the dog into my possession, with full intentions of returning it to its owner.

Is the dog now stolen? According to everyone believing the iphone was stolen it is!


Was the item ever stolen? And what point did it BECOME stolen. And lets not forget, the legal system is, lets repeat this

INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY

Meaning this guy does NOT have to prove he took proper steps to return it! Its up to the prosecutor to PROVE he DID NOT take proper steps to return it.

NOT the other way around as everyone has been claiming.

Not to mention the fact that it WAS returned when the proper owner was found!
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Don't you feel the least uncomfortable spouting off about things you know absolutely nothing about? Do you not realize we have a system of laws that is taught in law schools and well-understood by thousands of lawyers and judges throughout the country? Don't you think lawyers would by and large know more than you about these questions? Would you be as comfortable just making things up about, say, medicine or nuclear physics?

I mean, I wouldn't walk into where you work and try to tell you how hamburgers ought to be turned.
 
To legally transfer ownership of a lost item, gotta get the law as a middleman (in part to cover your butt). That wasn't done.

This isn't Court, so we can spew any verdict we want here.
 
Revelation78 said:
Your post = uninformed

According to California law, if you find property valued at $100 or more and you cannot find the owner of the property you must turn it over to a law enforcement agency for a period of time. If you do not take the aforementioned steps and you in turn sell the property you then have committed theft.

Thus theft = stolen
Click to expand...

It's also illegal to commit suicide in black, but you don't see them stuffing those people into jail, do you? So stop quoting stuff, only judges and lawyers get to interpret.

It is illegal to wear any shade of black and cut your wrists while doing so in the state of California. Violaters are subject to a minumum $8000 fine and/or Jail time not to exceed 5 years.
(Penal Code Section: B/4887443)
 
crusadernm said:
I came to a funny realization. When you watch the old 1984 Apple ad, you come to the realization that Apple isn't the one trying to break through to the brainwashed masses. They are Big Brother themselves.
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I came to a funny realization when I read your post. I occasionally think about the fact that some of the people who sound really stupid on the internet are in fact just children or can barely speak English. But now I realize that some of them are literally retarded.
 
So many here act like this is all going to get very interesting with some sort of jury trial. Ha! Nothing could be farther from the truth!

Once criminal charges get filed and people start getting hauled to jail in handcuffs to be fingerprinted and photographed, the plea deals will start in ernest. The arrested principles will be busy pleading out to lesser charges in exchange for testimony against somebody else. Rinse and repeat.

Someone mentioned that representatives from Gizmodo met with police on Monday afternoon. I wonder what they talked about?

Mark
 
Ries said:
It's also illegal to commit suicide in black, but you don't see them stuffing those people into jail, do you? So stop quoting stuff, only judges and lawyers get to interpret.

It is illegal to wear any shade of black and cut your wrists while doing so in the state of California. Violaters are subject to a minumum $8000 fine and/or Jail time not to exceed 5 years.
(Penal Code Section: B/4887443)
Click to expand...

Actually they typically get sent to "get help." They don't just leave them be and tell them to have a nice day. You know, in NC where I grew up, you can be charged and arrested for rape if a girl was barefoot in your car. Yes just simply being barefoot. So what's your point?

So what, you can cite the laws as well, great! Maybe you can help in getting people to understand the basics of the law as it clearly states what occurred was a crime.

Also, don't tell me what to do, as you do not know my background, what I currently do and what I am and I am not capable of interpreting. My job involves interpreting laws everyday - I've had some practice. ;)
 
Cartaphilus said:
Don't you feel the least uncomfortable spouting off about things you know absolutely nothing about? Do you not realize we have a system of laws that is taught in law schools and well-understood by thousands of lawyers and judges throughout the country? Don't you think lawyers would by and large know more than you about these questions? Would you be as comfortable just making things up about, say, medicine or nuclear physics?

I mean, I wouldn't walk into where you work and try to tell you how hamburgers ought to be turned.
Click to expand...

Your shortest post of the day but you really drove it home. :D
 
NSMonkey said:
I came to a funny realization when I read your post. I occasionally think about the fact that some of the people who sound really stupid on the internet are in fact just children or can barely speak English. But now I realize that some of them are literally retarded.
Click to expand...

I don't think that the post that you have quoted sounds stupid or child like... there is a valid point in the observation being made.

Apple are no longer the company that they used to be... the big difference is that Woz no longer runs it! Steve has always been and is now more publicly the business tyrant that many have accused him of.

Apple would not be where they are without both Woz and Jobs but even Woz admits that Steve's hunger for a publicly popular company and his hunger for success are not neccessarily what Apple stood for back in the day.

When founded Apple wanted people to think different... they were friendly and happy to show their work and keep communications open, just read about how the first Apple computer was developed.

Now look at Apple and hear of all the people who are fired for showing prototypes early to the co-founder of all people!

Apple, as 'cool' as they are, as innovative as they are andwill continue to be are no longer the 'freedom fighters' of IT that they self proclaimed in their 1984 advert.

So with that in mind eplain how the poster that you have stripped down is 'retarded'!!!!
 
Cartaphilus said:
Don't you feel the least uncomfortable spouting off about things you know absolutely nothing about? Do you not realize we have a system of laws that is taught in law schools and well-understood by thousands of lawyers and judges throughout the country? Don't you think lawyers would by and large know more than you about these questions? Would you be as comfortable just making things up about, say, medicine or nuclear physics?

I mean, I wouldn't walk into where you work and try to tell you how hamburgers ought to be turned.
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:D Thumbs Up for a Great Post! :D

Mark
 
http://www.mercurynews.com/search/ci_14962324?nclick_check=1

From the linked article:
The warrant also gave police the power to look for information on any research done about Apple employee Gray Powell, who reportedly left the phone at a German beer garden.
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Pure speculation at this point but, wow, that sort of reads like the police are wondering if Chen's computers contained information indicating that Gray Powell was intentionally targeted. Could that possibly mean BEFORE the iPhone disappeared?

Also thoroughly enjoyed this comment from San Mateo County Chief Deputy District Attorney Steve Wagstaffe:

"Finders keepers, losers weepers — that only applies in the second grade, not in real life," said Wagstaffe.

I think Wagstaffe has been reading MacRumors! :D

Mark
 
Mark Booth said:
http://www.mercurynews.com/search/ci_14962324?nclick_check=1

From the linked article:


Pure speculation at this point but, wow, that sort of reads like the police are wondering if Chen's computers contained information indicating that Gray Powell was intentionally targeted. Could that possibly mean BEFORE the iPhone disappeared?

Also thoroughly enjoyed this comment from San Mateo County Chief Deputy District Attorney Steve Wagstaffe:

"Finders keepers, losers weepers — that only applies in the second grade, not in real life," said Wagstaffe.

I think Wagstaffe has been reading MacRumors! :D

Mark
Click to expand...

Nice find...

The quote is great!
 
drummingcraig said:
And if you care to read thru the almost 30 pages of this thread you'll see that I concede that I was wrong. So you can stop shaking your head now.
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I finally did just now, only it was 56 pages by the time I did. I accept the chastisement, and apologize for misjudging your generous character.
 
I must have missed the part where Gizmodo kept the phone. Didn't they return it to Apple? I know they didn't do it fast enough for some people but I don't think there is a "unless FOUND property is returned within 15 days it is considered stolen. In the end they DID voluntarily give it back without being forced to by the police.

According to some of you here if I found your watch and didn't give it back for a week because let's say I was too busy that I deserve to be arrested and put away for life. I can see some of you arresting me as I stood on your porch trying to give it to you because I had it in my hand.
 
Breaking News from the 4th Reich!

SS officers in action against freedom of press!

Read more and face draconian reality with smile on your face :)
 
ctdonath said:
It wasn't a matter of mere possession of lost property.
It was a matter of paying a third party for it while knowing it wasn't the seller's to sell.

You find my wallet, fine.
You find my wallet and sell it to a journalist so he can go thru the contents in great inquisitive detail and publish what he finds, I'm gonna have a big problem with that.
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I don't think the phone contained any personal data. So the comparison fails.

If the journalist would describe in detail the wallet itself, I would hardly have a problem with that.

And either way I don't see how this justifies what the police did.

I think if I had a device I want to keep secret and lose it and somebody finds it and writes about it on his blog the police would NOT act like this toward the guy.

And no, I don't think Apple should have special privileges because they are a company making mobile phones. Private property is private property and the same laws should apply to everyone.
 
pastparticiple said:
I must have missed the part where Gizmodo kept the phone. Didn't they return it to Apple? I know they didn't do it fast enough for some people but I don't think there is a "unless FOUND property is returned within 15 days it is considered stolen. In the end they DID voluntarily give it back without being forced to by the police.

According to some of you here if I found your watch and didn't give it back for a week because let's say I was too busy that I deserve to be arrested and put away for life. I can see some of you arresting me as I stood on your porch trying to give it to you because I had it in my hand.
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Let me just point out that you didn't give my watch back until you had cracked it open, disassembled it, and sold pictures of it on the internet.

Also, if you recall, you refused to give my watch until I had to send you that formal letter asking for it back.
 
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