The iPhone section is horrible I think. As is (sometimes) the iPad section. The Mac section tends to be pretty civil though.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Politeness on forums?
- Thread starter whitedragon101
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
The iPhone section is horrible I think. As is (sometimes) the iPad section. The Mac section tends to be pretty civil though.
I was initially posting a reply to this post, but I realized it may be a topic of its own.
Many forum sites, or sites that include forums like online newspapers, are realizing that they need to do something more than having pages of rules and a plethora of warning and ban-happy volunteer moderators if they are to sustain or regain high quality discussion.
It's no secret that the civility of MR forum participants has decreased over the past decade while, inversely, the enforcement, warnings, bans, and locking of threads by those policing the forums have increased. So, we find ourselves asking the same question pondered by many other societies of sorts - if we have things policed so well, why aren't our people more creative, happy, and cooperative?
From what I've written, you probably think I'd blame the moderator. I do not. Instead, I think our collective potential for politeness and creativity is stymied by the old standard that we all post under pseudonyms and monikers. If we all posted with our real name, conversations would be more civil, more friends would be made, and I believe, moderators would be more tempered and even-handed when their actual name is attached to an enforcement action.
edit: Case-in-point -- mystery moderator removes this from it's own thread to make it #47 on a forum about politeness
I think you're right about an increase in membership equalling less transparency/politeness. Unfortunately, that's how people tend to react in large groups. It's a paradox that a site generally wants more members, but that more members means new - or at least an increase in certain types of - problems. But there you have it.
Also, as Apple has added products, new types of members have been attracted to the site. That means old skool Mac users have had a new dynamic in the membership to relate to. It isn't always smooth sailing when something expands.
There are however no ban-happy mods here. Banning is too much work, it's much more than just clicking on something in vBulletin. There's a whole program we follow of evaluation, discussion, escalation - and all of this has to be documented in the same way, so the info is available to all the others (transparency). It can be a headache, too, because there are often not clear-cut answers. We want to be as fair as possible, while we also try to look at a given situation on its own merits.
Believe me, if it were just a matter of banning anyone who makes work for us, without having to go through the set of hoops we've set up for ourselves in the name of being careful and fair, there would be a LOT more bannings!
I write on the forums here quite a lot and in almost every single thread people are rude and insulting. It just seems accepted. Casual rudeness/insults people just accept.
I think if people could write on a forum as if they were talking to a friend it would just make for a better environment.
I don't have a way of doing this but I just thought other people might feel the same way and want to chip in.
That does get me too. But. I have participated in many forums over the years and this one is the most polite one I have encountered. With everything though, there is always a bad apple that will spoil it for the bunch. Whenever someone is behind a keyboard or a steering wheel with a horn their humanity always drops a couple notches on the ladder. Car horns are what really gets me. Nearly all the morons on the road are just driving around looking for someone to mess up so they can honk at them. Oh god that gets to me like no other. The horn was originally intended to alert another driver to their presence. "don't switch lanes now I am here". It has turned into "stupid you just messed up you dumb" horn.
Last edited:
Get real
For one thing, on a forum we are not talking to friends. We are communicating with whoever wants to jump in, and with that comes quite a diverse, and sometimes controversial range of points of view. In real life our friends tend to be those who share somewhat similar opinions and values.
For another thing, among some groups of friends debate is normal, differing opinions can be expressed quite strongly, and language can be quite robust. Amongst close friends the etiquette that you might expect in a work place, class room, and the like is often dispensed with.
Harden up……. in the real world environment things can get quite nasty. On some other forums things get quite colourful. Here on MacRumours it is all very genteel (and overly censured) by comparison.
I write on the forums here quite a lot and in almost every single thread people are rude and insulting. It just seems accepted. Casual rudeness/insults people just accept.
I think if people could write on a forum as if they were talking to a friend it would just make for a better environment.
I don't have a way of doing this but I just thought other people might feel the same way and want to chip in.
For one thing, on a forum we are not talking to friends. We are communicating with whoever wants to jump in, and with that comes quite a diverse, and sometimes controversial range of points of view. In real life our friends tend to be those who share somewhat similar opinions and values.
For another thing, among some groups of friends debate is normal, differing opinions can be expressed quite strongly, and language can be quite robust. Amongst close friends the etiquette that you might expect in a work place, class room, and the like is often dispensed with.
Harden up……. in the real world environment things can get quite nasty. On some other forums things get quite colourful. Here on MacRumours it is all very genteel (and overly censured) by comparison.
Last edited:
What I fail to understand is the need to use terms such as 'Get Real' and 'Harden Up' to reinforce your point. To my mind, they are an example of the dismissive tone which is too often substituted for reasoned argument in the name of 'freedom of speech'.
I grant that the internet is not a public space where one meets friends face to face, to chat, and nor is it a work space, where other constraints concerning behaviour tend to apply, and obviously, that one will communicate in a different manner, especially as one is cloaked by anonymity and the saving grace that it is highly unlikely that one will ever encounter any of one's interlocutors in a face to face setting.
However, that should not bestow on it an exemption from according those with whom one engages in communication a degree of basic courtesy; this is even more important in a context and setting - the internet & online communication - where the etiquette and norms of how one communicates are only now being developed.
Last edited:
There's an interesting article on Slate that applies to some of the MR commenters:
http://www.slate.com/articles/healt..._machiavellianism_narcissism_psychopathy.html
http://www.slate.com/articles/healt..._machiavellianism_narcissism_psychopathy.html
As I think is mobilehaathi's post was intended to point out, the study was based on a "paper and pencil" personality test and self report... and was correlational. While interesting, it has the weaknesses of self report studies, and there is no justification for the assumption of causality.
I would suggest the study has value in possibly stimulating replication with better measures. There is no indication in the Abstract (I have not read the entire study...especially the Analysis section) whether statistical techniques which can offer some conclusions on causality in a correlational study were used.
In short, it is an interesting attempt to determine the type of individual who "trolls", but I wouldn't yet take the conclusions to the bank.
Indeed, I think I'd categorize this under "intriguing pilot study," with all the associated caveats. Plus the additional caveat that this is nowhere near my own field of study, and thus I have limited ability to comment on the dirty details.
It does fall into my field of study, and I think the phrase "intriguing pilot study" nicely characterizes the value of the study. Much more need be done, an experimental study of some kind with control group(s) for example, before any really definitive conclusions can be drawn.
A good first step...many more needed.
Looks like I have been chided for using the common language of the peasant that I am, in this politely eloquent, if somewhat loquacious post.
Couldn't agree more, I find those forums to be filled with such nasty characters that ruin so many of the discussions I come here to follow. I've been a member of this site for quite a few years and I've definitely noticed over the past few years a serious deterioration in the quality of discussions coupled with a general increase in the nastiness and lack of respect in discussions (in certain forums as you say). It's been quite sad watching this happen.
I'm curious about the application of one of the forum rules you posted ...
In the last couple of weeks there have been at least three instances of this very thing [IMO] by the same member. I have reported all three and yet nothing was done and the posts still remain ...
[Quoted posts removed]
It would seem to me that this is obviously trolling and not suitable for any discussion here in MR. But perhaps I am mistaken. It could be just my over-active sense of political-correctness at work.
Could a moderator please explain why these posts are deemed appropriate and do not violate the rule of "negative-stereotyping and obvious generalizations"?
Thank you.
Last edited by a moderator:
Hm. Thank you, well said and well asked.
I, for one, hadn't realised that there was a pattern to these gratuitously sexist posts, although I had spotted the most recent one. Well, a defence of 'comedy' seems to me to be somewhat inadequate in the circumstances.
I would think so as well.
One thing to note. Despite my reporting this member, I don't want to see anybody banned. I'd prefer that a moderator simply explain to that member that those kinds of posts are not acceptable and will not be tolerated.
Still looking forward to hearing from a moderator why they are being currently seen as acceptable.
Maybe it's just me.
Last edited by a moderator:
Still hoping to hear from a moderator as to why those posts are currently seen as acceptable.
Maybe I should report my own post just to get one of them to notice.
Still hoping to hear from a moderator as to why those posts are currently seen as acceptable.
Maybe I should report my own post just to get one of them to notice.
There is a Yo Dawg joke in here somewhere, but I am not smart enough to piece it together.
MOD NOTE: We're aware both of the original posts and your posts here. Our internal review process can take a while as we cover many time zones, so asking another mod or admin a question can take a while to get an answer.
B
Indeed.
Well, from my perspective, I appreciate it too, and will admit that it had crossed my mind to report that particular post as well. In the event, I decided against it, seeing that it has already been raised. Thank you for flagging it, citizenzen, and thank you for acknowledging the concerns a number of us have raised, balamw.