Popular Mac Developer Slams Apple for 'Sad State of Macintosh Hardware'

[alien3dx]

Look at the products which Apple is working on.

The iPhone and iPad run iOS. The Apple TV and Apple Watch use a modified version of ios. Any future wearable device (such as a pair of AR glasses) will likely utilise a version of ios optimised for that form factor over macOS. A self-driving car will also run a version of iOS as well.

iOS is going to form the foundation of pretty much every new product Apple is working on, while macOS stays relegated to Mac devices.

macOS is not the future of Apple.


I foresee AR glasses making large computer screens obsolete. Will we be doing computing on the move using smart glasses tethered to our phones or tablets or even watches? Who knows. A lot of things can change in 10 years.

Even if we are still using iMacs and Mac pros running triple monitor setups a decade from now, my point still stands. The Mac doesn’t represent the future at Apple, and has little place in this new world order that Apple seeks to usher in, beyond creating apps and content for the platform (assuming by then, we don’t have some form of X-code for iPad or something).

By that point, you don’t need half a dozen different Mac models to get this sort of work done. Just a laptop and desktop form factor and that should pretty much cover the bases of what a developer needs.

A 13” and 15” laptop, iMac and iMac Pro, and ugh, take your Mac Pro while you are at it, whether form it may take.



You said it, not me.

Then you will understand why any sympathy I may have once had for your plight no longer exists.

Processor is useless for developer,compiling doesn't effect much. But the speed of disk (SSD)(upgradable) and memory (upgradable) is the most important ..

In my life in windows, only oracle db choke me to death my memory on 8 GB stick, while normal usage will be hover 3 ~ 4 GB. While in latest osx, normal hover also 6.6 GB and some more compress cache. I don't even knew where they put the compress cache 2GB . If the OSX have the ability like normal linux flavour or windows, i will cut the nonsense app hover.. But in OSX or JAVA world, if ram not use max, it gonna waste. This is why most of OSX user, will get the max 40 GB while i rarely see any prof user want 40 GB in windows at all. For max 16 GB is enough...

 

[Bacillus]

Look at the products which Apple is working on.
The iPhone and iPad run iOS. The Apple TV and Apple Watch use a modified version of ios. Any future wearable device (such as a pair of AR glasses) will likely utilise a version of ios optimised for that form factor over macOS. A self-driving car will also run a version of iOS as well.
iOS is going to form the foundation of pretty much every new product Apple is working on, while macOS stays relegated to Mac devices.
macOS is not the future of Apple.
I foresee AR glasses making large computer screens obsolete. Will we be doing computing on the move using smart glasses tethered to our phones or tablets or even watches? Who knows. A lot of things can change in 10 years.
Even if we are still using iMacs and Mac pros running triple monitor setups a decade from now, my point still stands. The Mac doesn’t represent the future at Apple, and has little place in this new world order that Apple seeks to usher in, beyond creating apps and content for the platform (assuming by then, we don’t have some form of X-code for iPad or something).
By that point, you don’t need half a dozen different Mac models to get this sort of work done. Just a laptop and desktop form factor and that should pretty much cover the bases of what a developer needs.
A 13” and 15” laptop, iMac and iMac Pro, and ugh, take your Mac Pro while you are at it, whether form it may take.
You said it, not me.
Then you will understand why any sympathy I may have once had for your plight no longer exists.

You’re running all kinds of self-fulfilling/wrong prophecies:
“macOS is not the future of Apple.” => well, that goes for any (computer) company lamenting its position and running itself into oblivion. Which is what they do themselves, not something that falls upon them - as they had the position, distribution network, resources and know-how to form the best computer industry of its kind.
“A self-driving car will also run a version of iOS as well.” => it never will, because iOS is not a real-time OS.
For that reason alone Apple bought QNX, which on the contrary is RT OS.
Only if the efforts are scaled back into a CarPlay-like platform (w/o core navi/steering) iOS may come into place. Which is very likely, as no car company wants to partner with Apple for obvious reasons.

 

[Abazigal]

I also think it’s worth revisiting this interview about the Mac Pro held last year, so as to keep everyone’s expectations realistic.

https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/05/apples-2019-imac-pro-will-be-shaped-by-workflows/

This is likely Apple’s vision of modularity - plugging in various accessories and peripherals to expand the versatility of your device.

Those wishing that Apple would quickly throw some parts together and ship a new Mac Pro will be disappointed.

On the bright side, Apple has in the very least admitted that it got the 2013 Mac Pro wrong and is now using that to its advantage by taking the time to rethink its entire approach to pro workflows. This doesn't mean that Apple will be successful in its pro strategy, but there is no denying that Apple is giving the topic significant resources and attention.

More than what it probably deserves at any rate, but that’s Apple for you, I guess.

 

[katewes]

I went from being the biggest Apple Fanboy/Stockholder to building 2 Windows machines in the last 3 months. I had been out of Windows for at least 15 years ... I didn't abandon Apple. Apple abandoned me.

Oh my goodness, this is my story too. My first Mac was the second model 512K Mac, and then I was into PC's because of work, and 15 years ago came back to Apple. I used to be an Apple evangelist, and brought my entire extended family and so many friends to Apple.

Now I loathe what Apple's corporate persona has morphed into.

For me, it was the removal of the matte-antiglare option from MacBook Pros. C'mon, with close to a trillion dollars of pile of cash, you would think Apple could have offered the anti-glare option for those users who need it. I myself have an iMac 5K Retina screen which is superb in my room with few windows - but my MacBook Airs are a nightmare when used on the road in very bright lighting.

Apple deserves to be one of those companies that shrivel and die after being in the limelight. Apple has no customer loyalty. It is only driven by greed for more cash. Remember the fairy tale of the dragon that amassed a mountain of gold just to sleep on its pile of gold. That's what Apple is like. It doesn't do anything with its cash. It just sits on it, gloating over how high the pile of cash is growing.

It's hard to imagine I would so eagerly evangelise people to Apple back in the early days. I think the hard reality came around 2013 when Apple removed the anti-glare option from MacBook Pros. It's then that I realise that the heart and core of Apple had become rotten. Steve Jobs passed away in 2011, and everything diseased about Apple was well under way by 2013.

Your quote speaks for me too: "I didn't abandon Apple. Apple abandoned me."

 

[crsh1976]

Look at the products which Apple is working on.

The iPhone and iPad run iOS. The Apple TV and Apple Watch use a modified version of ios. Any future wearable device (such as a pair of AR glasses) will likely utilise a version of ios optimised for that form factor over macOS. A self-driving car will also run a version of iOS as well.

iOS is going to form the foundation of pretty much every new product Apple is working on, while macOS stays relegated to Mac devices.

macOS is not the future of Apple.

While I won't refute that any future lifestyle device will likely run on some version of iOS, I think we need to keep something in perspective : iOS devices do not replace Macs (no matter how many ads Apple will make in favour of the iPads).

iOS is a lifestyle platform; for smartphones and watches and TV boxes it's fine, for pro use it falls short and shows that it wasn't meant for creating content. Case in point, iOS apps can only be created on Macs, and that's not about to change.

Admittedly, that does little to comfort those of us longing for new Macs and a genuine commitment to the platform, but Macs are essential to support the iOS ecosystem.

 

[welshboyuk]

eeerrr.. refurb store is down.

 

[villicodelirant]

Sorry but I am an architect and 2028 computers will certainly not be the same as we use now.

What can I say, see you in 10 years.
My money is on you still hving a taskbar and a mouse to drive AutoCAD 2028.

Why on earth would a business who can make a lot more money developing for the most be interested in a tiny proportion of computers?
You make no sense except wanting them to create computers just for you.

Wait, I don't want Apple to create computers just for me.
In fact, I haven't bought a Mac in more than 10 years.
In fact, it's obvious that it's in Apple's best interest to put its money on phones, those things literally sell themselves.

This does not mean that there won't be a demand for personal computers, which Dell, HP and Lenovo will be more than happy to satisfy.

macOS is not the future of Apple.

Without a doubt.

I foresee AR glasses making large computer screens obsolete.

This prediction has been made almost every year since 1990.
No, I really don't think that beancounters will run Excel on AR glasses in 2028.

You said it, not me.
Then you will understand why any sympathy I may have once had for your plight no longer exists.

Oh, I do have a few theories why, but none of them are pleasant to contemplate.

We'll just agree to disagree: I am strongly in favour of severe restriction of civil liberties and cruel and unusual pushiments for anybody who has ever used an "animoji", but not for those who don't hold the same opinion.

 

[Mr-Stabby]

I also think it’s worth revisiting this interview about the Mac Pro held last year, so as to keep everyone’s expectations realistic.

https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/05/apples-2019-imac-pro-will-be-shaped-by-workflows/

That worries me. While yes, i'm sure they have seen lots of examples of external eGPUs connected to iMac Pros and external Thunderbolt RAID arrays, this is most definitely not the norm. As time goes on, companies (like the one for which i work) tighten their belts more and more. Why would they pay up to three or four times more to buy a solution which does pretty much the same thing. The only real advantage Apple has is the macOS, and really as big a fan of macOS as i am, i am not going to buy a Maya and Premiere rig that costs three or four times as much, to likely get slightly less performance than a £1000 specced up media PC. It's sad but it's the truth. Apple i'm sure know that the Mac Pro is going to be a niche product, why not just make it the best that that it can be for the customer. Keep the iMac Pro for those who for some reason like everything being external, and give us an empty shell with some decent options for internal expansion, and we'd be oh so happy

 

[Bacillus]

....but there is no denying that Apple is giving the topic significant resources and attention.
...

In the media, that is.
In terms of actual operations (design, development, provisioning) a company of Apple’s size should be able to launch 10 Mac Pro’s on a yearly basis.
Look what other companies a fraction of its size can accomplish.

The other question is how viable the eGPU vision is, pricewise.

 

[crodonline]

I know that Dell, Lenovo, MS, HP, and others seem to be able to go from one generation of chips to the next as soon as intel makes the new ones available.

And they all run Windows as opposed to macOS. There might be a difference. But apparently there can only be one side to all of this. I have no skin in this game and I don’t know why my opinion bothers you or anyone. Other people have said similar things. It’s just an opinion.

 

[junkstory]

It would take Apple no effort at all, and I mean quite literally zero effort, to update the Mac Mini chipset and replace the CPU with a more modern one. It blows my mind that they won't even do something so trivial.

 

[iMcLovin]

This is all true - and I agree totally, but they can’t make machines for everyone. They make machines for the average and are not Dell / Lenovo / HP etc.
Look at the business make up and appreciate what Apple are - not a workstation manufacturer would be one observation.

Well, I agree that they can't have everything. Apple is more of a broader spectrum of machines. But still. iMac Pro is currently the ONLY (!) machine with professional hardware, and a lot of users use apple for professional work that require a powerful machine...but iMac Pro isn't a perfect machine for all use cases. Even apple admits to this, the only problem is that it takes them YEARS to fix their major Mac Pro mistake. THey admitted to it 2 years ago, and they are not informative enough on what's going on with the next Mac Pro they are working on and when it will be out. So, for those of us that needs a modular powerful machine, you either have to sit and wait for an unknown amount of time, or just jump ship. And I doubt Apple would like a professionals to abandon Apple....and to be honest I think in that marked Apple are loosing its customers more than gaining, and that can have a ripple effect for them. Not that I care, I will never get locked into apple for a professional machine ever again, but Im buying their "toys" and phones for other stuff though.

 

[Lone Deranger]

Apple updates the MBP roughly once a year. How often do you expect them to update it?

How about whenever a serious design-flaw with one of the main components comes to light?

 

[pete2106]

Computers are so 2013, it's all about watch bands now.

 

[Mizzie50]

"Apple needs to publicly show their commitment to the full Macintosh hardware line and they need to do it now."

No statement made in the last decade can be more true.

[doublepost=1529309451][/doublepost]I’m about to give up waiting, it seems like Apple are just not interested in the Mac line ups any more, they are too expensive for what we are getting and that’s a real shame, when I move systems it will though be end of iPhone for me as well.

 

[MandiMac]

All of the above said and done - it‘s gonna be a hell of a Q4 update regarding Mac this year

 

[R10k]

This thread is like Christmas come early for everyone here...

 

[BigMac?]

Seems this topic is shaking apple community really hard.
I always wonder myself: does Apple read this forum? and if, what do they think?
i hope they please us with some fruity new hardware and commitment to their "pro" line of products.

 

[czoli]

Agree or disagree, Mac value holds up extremely well and lifespan are increasingly pushing the boundaries...Look at MacBook Air from 10 years ago still fetching over $100 dollars on eBay. People are keeping their devices longer and longer no need for product refreshes every year. IMO.

this is because refresh is not happening

 

[tomscott1988]

We were in the same place in 2017.

The iMac hadn't been upgraded for a double release schedule and people were screaming out that the mac was dead and they came out with the 2017 iMac, macbook pros, macbook etc which at the time were well received. It was just months later when people who bought i7s were having issues with throttling and the noise was like being in a wind tunnel.

Something will come out soon but it will be crippled or gimped in some way that will make the buy a compromise rather than a purchase you can generally be happy with.

The main thing is Apple products are premium anyway. It makes the most sense to buy early so you get the most of your moneys worth because who knows when there will be an update.

Maybe Apples road map has changed. If they were honest with their user base there wouldn't be the doom and gloom all the time. I would be happy with an 18 month product release schedule but we will never be told about it.

If anything bad press is good press. Anyone at apple wont be worried about these threads but be super stoked people are so passionate about it. Its the way apple has operated for years the big build up. Then when the products land they will be the best thing since sliced bread for 6 months until problems arise like the keyboard in the macbook, the tiny chassis throttling, the tiny fans in the iMac.
[doublepost=1529312838][/doublepost]

this is because refresh is not happening

Hardly. Its always been the case.

The iMac and macbook line are only just over 12 months old. The rest of the line fair enough but it just needs to be discontinued so people can stop hanging on.

 

[SBlue1]

I foresee AR glasses making large computer screens obsolete. Will we be doing computing on the move using smart glasses tethered to our phones or tablets or even watches? Who knows. A lot of things can change in 10 years.

Even if we are still using iMacs and Mac pros running triple monitor setups a decade from now, my point still stands. The Mac doesn’t represent the future at Apple, and has little place in this new world order that Apple seeks to usher in, beyond creating apps and content for the platform (assuming by then, we don’t have some form of X-code for iPad or something).

By that point, you don’t need half a dozen different Mac models to get this sort of work done. Just a laptop and desktop form factor and that should pretty much cover the bases of what a developer needs.

Why do you think just graphic designers like photographers or architects need Macs? There are more user cases. My wife needs a new laptop for work, mostly office stuff and light photo editing, has to be 15" and the ability to run Boot Camp for some Windows stuff. What kind of Mac do you recommend? The cheapest 15" Macbook Pro is 2800 Euros. Comparable Windows machine is 800 to 1000 Euros. What now? Abandon Apple?

And AR glases are a gimmick like flying cars fantasies from the 50ies. We don't need to do computing on the move. Most people will still be working in offices in 10 years, typing on keyboards will always be faster than pointing in the air or even typing on a glass screen.

 

[BornAgainMac]

Maybe Apple should just have 1 laptop and 1 desktop to maintain. The components inside and not the price determine what you pay.

 

[richinaus]

What can I say, see you in 10 years.
My money is on you still hving a taskbar and a mouse to drive AutoCAD 2028.



Wait, I don't want Apple to create computers just for me.
In fact, I haven't bought a Mac in more than 10 years.
In fact, it's obvious that it's in Apple's best interest to put its money on phones, those things literally sell themselves.

This does not mean that there won't be a demand for personal computers, which Dell, HP and Lenovo will be more than happy to satisfy.



Without a doubt.



This prediction has been made almost every year since 1990.
No, I really don't think that beancounters will run Excel on AR glasses in 2028.



Oh, I do have a few theories why, but none of them are pleasant to contemplate.

We'll just agree to disagree: I am strongly in favour of severe restriction of civil liberties and cruel and unusual pushiments for anybody who has ever used an "animoji", but not for those who don't hold the same opinion.

In 2028 I can guarantee architects wont be using autocad - in fact I haven’t touched it for 15 years. But anyway, you know nothing about cloud computing either by the sounds of it.
I never said there wouldn’t need mice or input devices, what I said is that powerful desktops will not be required. Hence an iOS device wireless connected to a monitor or VR goggles if you want, will suffice.

You have zero vision. And this has nothing to do with emoji use or how you perceive an iOS device to be useful.

Yes the bean counters will be on the absolute basic machines available. But I know they wont be Apple, which is what this discussion is about,

 

[dilbert99]

It's really sad. I wish apple would realize that, while the profits come from iGadgets, it's the technologies from the Mac that makes iOS possible, not the other way around.

Perhaps the problem with Apple is that they have limited resources and fingers in too many pies so put them to where the money is.

 

[richinaus]

Why do you think just graphic designers like photographers or architects need Macs? There are more user cases. My wife needs a new laptop for work, mostly office stuff and light photo editing, has to be 15" and the ability to run Boot Camp for some Windows stuff. What kind of Mac do you recommend? The cheapest 15" Macbook Pro is 2800 Euros. Comparable Windows machine is 800 to 1000 Euros. What now? Abandon Apple?

And AR glases are a gimmick like flying cars fantasies from the 50ies. We don't need to do computing on the move. Most people will still be working in offices in 10 years, typing on keyboards will always be faster than pointing in the air or even typing on a glass screen.

She can’t afford an Apple computer then and justify the value proposition.

Who was talking about now and AR. And you can be damm sure they will be used extensively in 10 years - all architects I know already are using them, but as usual we are always ahead in the use. The benefit that was referred to was having a high resolution screen in front of your face rather than on your desk. I can totally see this happening.