Hopefully they will put up a new hardware event soon. Enough is enough, pretty disgraceful. I sit there every night looking at my very powerful PC I built and look out the window and wonder, but bottom line is I want to make music on a mac with Logic and my laptop is old and noisy. It's so frustrating. I'd buy a new mac pro tomorrow. What happened to the G5, those were great days! Shame on you Apple.
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Popular Mac Developer Slams Apple for 'Sad State of Macintosh Hardware'
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And that's not to mention that you don't have to buy it all at once.
I often upgrade my GPU on its own cycle, the motherboard + RAM + CPU on another cycle.
Once you have solid basics (power supply, case, cooling, storage), the rest can be done when the time, funds, and offers are right. Oh, and you aren't restricted to specific screen size/aspect and have to replace it every time you want an upgrade (which costs a small fortune).
I cannot vouch for the current state of Apple and Intel's relationship, but the Apple of 2008 very much depended on Mac sales to help finance the new iPhone and iTunes App Store which was set to launch on July 10 of that year. Apple (Steve Jobs) aggresively pushed Intel to improve integrated graphics and lower power consumption in its CPUs, the fruit of which was the original MacBook Air, introduced back in January of that year.
Fast forward ten years and Apple is now no longer a partner so much as they are a customer of Intel's. Intel cannott help but see a missed opportunity with the iPhone and iPad custom SoCs that Apple is now desiging in-house and manufacturing without Intel. How this affects Apple's ability to gain early access to engineering samples is pure conjecture at this point.
Moving from 7th-Gen (Kaby Lake) to 8th-Gen (Coffee Lake) is more than a simple chip swap, at least when I think of how Apple may decide to update the 13" and 15" Macbook Pros. The first CPUs that Intel released back in late-August of 2017 were only suitable as direct replacements for the nTB 13" MacBook Pros. Intel did not release suitable replacement CPUs for the TB 13" and 15" MacBook Pros until April of this year (2018). There was zero chance that the lowest end 13" MacBook Pro was going to get a CPU bump before its higher-end, higher margin siblings. That is just not how Apple operates. Just because Dell and HP do it, doesn't make it a smart business move.
Along with CPUs, Intel introduced a new Thunderbolt 3 controller (Titan Ridge) in January of 2018 and two new mobile PCHs (HM370 & QM370) in April of this year. Apple may also be working on implementing terraced batteries that were rumored to have been pulled at the last minute. And they may also be reworking the chassis to fix the keyboard or intergating the Magic Keyboard mechanism instead.
Apple may also be waiting to introduce upgraded MacBook Pros alongside a 13" MacBook, that will most likely take the place of the current nTB 13" MacBook Pro and simplify Apple's portable lineup. The last news on the 13" MacBook said it was not ready for intro during WWDC, which would affect the Pro intro as well.
The bottom line is that most of the time, lie it or not, it is never just a chip swap with Apple.
I almost wonder if Apple should just start selling OSX to compete with Windows, and let you run it on anything.
This would be better than being forced to run it on terrible hardware. I ran a hackintosh ten years ago but it was a pain to upgrade and I'd get kernel panics every once in a while.
This would be better than being forced to run it on terrible hardware. I ran a hackintosh ten years ago but it was a pain to upgrade and I'd get kernel panics every once in a while.
While I would love to install macOS on my own hardware, why would Apple want to do that?
There is not much profit in selling an OS, the business is selling hardware.
Windows is not even close at being the biggest source of revenue for Microsoft.
That sounds like the 5k Thunderbolt Display. Apple’s idea of a desktop laptop is probably a 15” MBP hooked up to 1 or 2 5k displays, with an E-GPU connected as well for extra graphics power. Then when it’s time to pack up and go, disconnect everything for a thin and light laptop that’s easier to bring around.
Apple is making money , but if you look close to the numbers they tell a different sorry, the accounts rule apple , that will lead to the down fall like before..
To quote the ubiquitous disclaimer: "Past performance is no guarantee of future results." More to the point, failed predictions of past doom are no guarantee against future doom.
Anyway - "The Mac is doomed" and "Apple is doomed" are two different things.
We're whining because we're Mac users not because we're worried about our Apple shares.
Apple could happily transform itself into an entertainment and services company and the shareholders would be perfectly happy. Or, a momentary dip in their share value due to some random whim of the market could see them taken over and asset-stripped overnight.
I'm not a betting person, but if, in 10 years time, Apple are a subsidiary of Disney, I wouldn't be astonished.
Whether they'll keep building Macs is another matter. If the Mac keeps getting neglected because phones, cars, watches and TV shows are more interesting and promise windfall profits then that's the end of the Mac.
Phones/tablets are going to take a huge bite out of the "traditional" personal computer market - Macs are a mature product and there probably won't be pressing reasons to upgrade every 18 months any more, but that doesn't mean that they're not a viable business (if things worked like that, you wouldn't be able to buy a fridge or a washing machine any more). The need for "proper" PCs isn't going to go away any time soon.
If Apple want to walk away from the Mac market then they better be pretty sure that they've got the Next Big Thing in Tim's famous pipeline. Phones and tablets are also rapidly reaching maturity - the days of everybody buying a new phone every year are probably numbered. In entertainment, well, music is probably safe but hardly the Next Big Thing, while Apple are starting a long way behind Netflix and Amazon on the TV front. Self-driving cars will require enormous social, legal and infrastructure changes to really take off.
You make a good point, but I guess I was just thinking of Apple continuing on its current trajectory -- they've been dropping hardware for some time now. They no longer make displays, they no longer make Wifi hubs. Can laptops be far behind?
Maybe if they made strategic partnerships with other laptop manufacturers, rather than just let the OS run on anything.
I guess I'm just wishing out loud, I just want a laptop with decent keyboard that lets me run OSX.
Currently, VMs of Mac OS can only be legitimately run on Macs. Once all Macs have iMP-style security subsystems (which is probably what the rumours of ARM-based Macs are about) that will be hard to circumvent. And, like Hackintoshes, although Apple would need to be completely frothing-at-the-mouth bonkers to prosecute private individuals for breaking their licenses, it makes them completely unsuitable for business/professional use.
I disagree.
There have always been QC issues at apple. The difference is back in the day say 2006 there was very little social media as FB went to the masses that year and youtube wasn't like it is today, those years were the produced people like iJustine and MKBHD etc and now youtube is a go to for product review because of that.
Basically those flaws were not as well communicated through media etc. Culture has changed and people are far more tech savvy and those people above have made their careers doing so.
Now apple is the target to test against and anything people can find is documented and made much bigger than it is.
Apple also were far far smaller so the amount of units that failed were far fewer. Now they are a conglomerate and sell millions of products... in 2017 they sold 19.25 million macs in 2006 they sold 5.3 million.
The funny thing is that in 2017 where macs have grown 700% since they moved to intel we tangled in these threads where apple isnt interested and they will drop the mac. That 19.25 million units is a multi billion dollar industry.
Its easy to say that apples products are crap now but they are still the best made products its just unfortunate the keyboard has its issues on the 2015 macbook through 2017 macbook pro. It is a fact they have tried to cut down on production costs with glued components, non up gradable parts etc which I dont agree with but they arent the only company doing it. Until there is law and legislation that adds more consumer protection to ensure the longevity of these products of course apple will try to keep reducing costs.
Its a fact that a 2016 macbook pro wont last as long as a 2010 macbook pro simply because if it ships with 8gbs of ram which 90% will in 3 years time 8gb will be anemic. In 2010 you could upgrade the macbook pro to 16gbs and replace the drive which essentially made the 2010 relevant for a long time past its intended life.
My graphics card in my 2006 macbook pro died a month after the extended warranty and as a good will gesture they repaired it. Consequently after the repair I sold it and bought a 2009 unibody macbook. I didnt need to quote consumer protection law they did it for the inconvenience and I ended up spending more money with them.
TBH if you had fought hard enough you would have got a resolution with the graphics card. Here in the UK consumer rights essentially give you a 5 year warranty. A product is estimated to last that period and if it fails you can take it back for repair or replacement under fit for purpose act. Although the UK is far ahead of any other country in this respect there are laws in most countries to help.
Also back in 2005-2010 were the golden modern years they were so willing to help because they wanted people to switch. Ive never had a bad experience with apple care. I had my macbook display replaced twice in the last 2 years because the chassis keeps scratching a line across the screen. No contest each time replaced without issue.
If Mac changes from Intel/AMD compatible chips to ARMs I’m not sure VM’s will be possible, at least on a practical basis.
For me, a Mac Mini, if properly updated, would have sufficed. I waited a long time and when it was clear Apple would still be doing anything but updating it (and Tim Cook saying the Mac Mini "is important"), I just went and put up a Windows/Linux PC. Granted, the interface is not as elegant as a Mac, but as years pass the differences are slowly but steadily getting eroded, and performance is as good as I need (well, much better, to be honest).
I would have loved to once again put my hands on a Mac, and I waited long for it, but it seems my love is unanswered.
I would have loved to once again put my hands on a Mac, and I waited long for it, but it seems my love is unanswered.
Thank you for your post. I see and understand your intent now. I have withdrawn an earlier criticism in good faith.
I still think you’re a little harsh on the previous generation that wants a fully servicable, top-end rig
We should acknowledge the death of tinkering with a Mac Pro to inexpensively upgrade it for years. There is a grieving process for the cheese grater that will never be reincarnated.I think this thread is a collective wake for that reality. I hope Apple learned something about what was loved and what was lost. Apple should deliver a proper eulogy at its next hardware event to put the idea of all old Mac Pros to rest (JUST the idea, not the actual old Macs that still run great!!!)
Then tell us with excitement which new babies have been born and why they’ll make us happy again.
And if we’re not happy with the family after that, keep the old one for a bit longer, or the HP Z workstation will get your mojo back, or check out the thousands of windows PCs out there that have absolutely no barrier to entry on price.
edit: I personally think that the MacOS has a lot of value, security, and convenience, so I will pay more for it. But I would like the consumable parts of my Macs, like batteries and harddrives, to be more easily replaceable by myself at home.
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I thought we were on an MM retreat and had limited time to reply, hmmmmm.
You still haven't answered my question regarding what you meant when you said: "Tim Cook deserves criticism".
This is despite me repeating it to you numerous times and yet strangely you've replied to multiple other comments posted after mine. If you really are "genuine about engaging in honest conversation" could you please elaborate on that statement for me.
Sooo, you're basically admitting that you participated in this thread in order to hijack it for your own personal biases. Essentially you're admitting you're a hypocrite because you're doing the very thing that you accuse the "haters" of doing.
Moderators, where are you? How is this not trolling behaviour?
Furthermore, you're implying that the moderators here on MacRumors are not doing their jobs by allowing other threads to be held hostage by those that are "screwing up any attempt of meaningful discussion". Hence because the Moderators here must (by extension) be so useless & incompetent you saw it fit to take the law into your own hands, hijack this thread and "send a message" to all those "haters" & "raging" "Madmen".
Moderators, are you just going to let this guy get away with this?
Forget delusions of grandeur, this is a flat out God Complex.
Anyhowsssss, since people can apparently break forum rules without any consequences, let me say that by posting the above comment you're either extremely stupid or plainly trolling. Since I gather you are somehow involved in teaching I can only hope & pray that you are in fact trolling because, honestly, the idea that someone as dumb as your above statement implies, is somehow responsible for educating others makes me not want to live on this planet anymore.
You still haven't answered my question regarding what you meant when you said: "Tim Cook deserves criticism".
This is despite me repeating it to you numerous times and yet strangely you've replied to multiple other comments posted after mine. If you really are "genuine about engaging in honest conversation" could you please elaborate on that statement for me.
Sooo, you're basically admitting that you participated in this thread in order to hijack it for your own personal biases. Essentially you're admitting you're a hypocrite because you're doing the very thing that you accuse the "haters" of doing.
Moderators, where are you? How is this not trolling behaviour?
Furthermore, you're implying that the moderators here on MacRumors are not doing their jobs by allowing other threads to be held hostage by those that are "screwing up any attempt of meaningful discussion". Hence because the Moderators here must (by extension) be so useless & incompetent you saw it fit to take the law into your own hands, hijack this thread and "send a message" to all those "haters" & "raging" "Madmen".
Moderators, are you just going to let this guy get away with this?
Forget delusions of grandeur, this is a flat out God Complex.
Anyhowsssss, since people can apparently break forum rules without any consequences, let me say that by posting the above comment you're either extremely stupid or plainly trolling. Since I gather you are somehow involved in teaching I can only hope & pray that you are in fact trolling because, honestly, the idea that someone as dumb as your above statement implies, is somehow responsible for educating others makes me not want to live on this planet anymore.
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There’s many polite discussions in this forum, especially in threads regarding troubleshooting and occupational challenges. This topic, however, is a philosophical one. Passions are understandable.
How does One have an reassuring discourse about a product’s future when the company is secretive about its plans? There’s already been considerable speculation and constructive feedback in recent years. People who are vested in the brand and need to re-equip for practical reasons, are dismayed that the product is no longer the best investment. Their loyalty is being taken advantage of. They deserve more insight and evidence than a vague Tweet pledging respect for the Mac.
What business succeeds by putting its priorities before the customer’s? If Apple isn’t designing a customizable Mac to satisfy the wants of the people in this discussion—and desktops aren’t in vogue with Sally Selfiemaker—who the f**k are they designing it for?
Remember when TV manufacturers and media purveyors decided 3D television is what people should want? That was a business putting its vision ahead of the customer’s. Needless to say, it was a self-serving decision that failed to impress.
Huh? Nope. Apple uses exactly the same Intel chips as everybody else. I assume they get a bulk discount, but that is about it.
It's a sad state of affairs when my Mac Pro 2012 with dual Xeon X5690 processors, 128GB of ram, 512GB PCIe SSD, and Nvidia GTX 980 is bigger and faster then Apple's latest 2018 gear. Hopefully the new ARM based Mac Pro will redeem Apple, because otherwise I'm building a Hackintosh or switching to Linux.
That makes no sense at all. How much does Apple make on the sale of macOS right now? Zero, how could they craft a business model where they would allow macOS to run on non-apple hardware and make a profit at it?
Back in the day, apple had a "clone" business where they licenses the OS to hardware makers and that (among other poor decisions) nearly bankrupted the company. Apple makes more money selling Macs then it ever could with licensing macOS
One advantage I see of getting OSX in everyone's hands is that it lowers the barrier to develop iPhone apps. So there could be more people willing to feed the beast that is the iPhone. I hope the bean counters at Apple are able to spin this positively and actually liberate OSX..While I would love to install macOS on my own hardware, why would Apple want to do that?
There is not much profit in selling an OS, the business is selling hardware.
Windows is not even close at being the biggest source of revenue for Microsoft.
Twitter doesn't offer nearly enough character space to appropriately write what I want to say to Apple.
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Apple didn't have an iPhone supporting the entire company "back in the day". If Apple didn't have the iPhone sales supporting their company right now, they'd be belly up and flushed down the toilet. Right now, they could most certainly re-write their OS to sell to the general PC using public. They'd probably make more money selling their OS to everyone else vs. selling computers to a small niche of users.
...Besides, if you felt you needed an "apple built computer", you could still purchase one from their store.
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How so? They were making money before the iPhone was rolled out. Granted they would not be the powerhouse they are now, but short of conjecturing that they would fold there's no evidence that a Mac only Apple would have closed down.
Yes they could and the advantages of having tightly integrated hardware (the mac) and software would be eliminated. Most people would choose not to spend money on an operating system. People don't buy Macs for macOS, they buy Macs for the apple experience and when its software only you lose a great portion of the apple experience. One great advantage apple has is the ability to tightly integrate the hardware and software.
So you're saying your saying they'd make more money selling an operating system that they now give away for free? Do you realize that Macs account for 5.6 billion dollars last quarter for Apple.
Apple Q2 2018 financial results: $61.1bn, 52.2m iPhones sold
I think your position is flawed, apple is far better off making and selling Macs then licensing the OS. Just consider how much more over-head apple would need for support. They would need to support Joe citizien trying to install macos on his Asus but for some reason the camera isn't working, or he's getting kernel panics. I don't see licensing the OS as a solution that is superior to selling the hardware. Apple tried it and almost went out of business the last time.
I had a similar post in another thread;
Been a Mac / iOS user since 2007. Every 6 months I get fed up with Apple and decide to switch. I am fortunate to have an Android/Windows backup kit through work that I dont use. The only thing I have found is I never make it more than a few days before switching everything back to Apple.
The Apple things I find a very hard time shaking loose;
The things about Apple that gnaw at me
Lastly, I think some of what we are all expressing about Apple is part of the normal product / marketing lifecycle. This thread is over 72 pages and many, many, many posts are from longtime 20+ year Apple die-hards. This is not just a few bored internet pundits. This should be a very major concern for Apple's marketing team but I dont think they care. We are past the growth stage and in the maturity phase. There are enough people still jumping on the Apple bandwagon to offset disgruntled early adopters and evangelists.
Apple is definitely leaving some of us behind. You are smart to start looking over the wall.
Been a Mac / iOS user since 2007. Every 6 months I get fed up with Apple and decide to switch. I am fortunate to have an Android/Windows backup kit through work that I dont use. The only thing I have found is I never make it more than a few days before switching everything back to Apple.
The Apple things I find a very hard time shaking loose;
- The connected ecosystem - everything under one roof. Less to manage. Rather than "it just works", it's more like "it works the way I like it".
- Security / Privacy (or the illusion thereof) - Safari ad blocker, iOS system wide ad blocker. Apple's supposed respect for privacy. Every time I use my Google stuff, I am both amazed and dismayed at how good / invasive they are. Ads on Android are pure h3ll. In the end I find myself wanting to run from that level of data gathering.
- The lack of polish with non-Apple hardware - Yes, the new Lenovos, Dell's and HP's all look good. But they dont have that solid feeling like an Apple device. There's just enough flimsy plastic or feel that will come up somewhere to annoy me.
- Good stock software - Preview. The rest I can live without. Working with PDF's on Windows is a PITA w/o spending $$.
- Higher resell. I usually upgrade 1-2 items per year and the Apple stuff tends to fetch a 10-25% resell premium.
The things about Apple that gnaw at me
- The lack of updates (I like new tech stuff and waiting once a year for my Apple fix is getting clinically ridiculous)
- Missing software - like MS Office, Project, Visio. I know there are alternates but they don't compare.
- The prices. I'm getting past the "shut up and take my money" phase with Apple. I am much more deliberate about thinking what's the best hardware for my needs. Two Apple things I have recently left behind (routers > went with Ubiquiti and smart watches > went with Garmin). The prices Apple are asking these days are insulting. I've owned a few BMWs and it's the same thing. That level of expenditure in today's world is not necessary. Older BMWs were cool sports cars. The new ones are a German Buick. Save your money. A new Honda is 90% as good. When Angela Ahrendts came on board, they said they would start taking the brand more up market and I don't think it's what hardcore tech people want to see. I even found myself embarrassed recently, sitting at a conference and realizing that everything on my person was Apple (new MBP, phone X, watch). I felt like some douche showing off.
- Apple's move away from good tech and more as a lifestyle brand - This I find very polarizing. Not everyone is going to identify with the new Apple and it's vision for the world. The hypocrisy of being an eco friendly company while making all your parts non-replaceable is high.
- The rising wall -. I used to love the walled garden analogy. It's cozy there. The problem is I am starting to notice that they are adding layers to heighten the wall. I don't see it coming down anytime soon on Apple's part.
Lastly, I think some of what we are all expressing about Apple is part of the normal product / marketing lifecycle. This thread is over 72 pages and many, many, many posts are from longtime 20+ year Apple die-hards. This is not just a few bored internet pundits. This should be a very major concern for Apple's marketing team but I dont think they care. We are past the growth stage and in the maturity phase. There are enough people still jumping on the Apple bandwagon to offset disgruntled early adopters and evangelists.
Apple is definitely leaving some of us behind. You are smart to start looking over the wall.
Twitter doesn't offer nearly enough character space to appropriately write what I want to say to Apple.
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Apple didn't have an iPhone supporting the entire company "back in the day". If Apple didn't have the iPhone sales supporting their company right now, they'd be belly up and flushed down the toilet. Right now, they could most certainly re-write their OS to sell to the general PC using public. They'd probably make more money selling their OS to everyone else vs. selling computers to a small niche of users.
...Besides, if you felt you needed an "apple built computer", you could still purchase one from their store.
Why would anyone pay for an OS if there are free alternatives. Its like paying for a web browser. This is not the 80ies anymore.