Popular Mac Developer Slams Apple for 'Sad State of Macintosh Hardware'

[EDS66]

I’ve spent the entire day compiling the components for my new PC build. Very heartbreaking but liberating at the same time. Kind of feels like breaking up with a lost love that is no longer there for you.... Tim’s Apple is a lonely place. I miss Steve.

One of the terms used to describe Apple's esthetic vis-a-vis PC esthetic is je ne sais quoi. There is just something ineffable about the hardware-software integration that Apple offers to the end users that the marriage of the Byzantine world of PC hardware and Kafkaesque world of Microsoft Windows (along with its incestuous offspring -- Microsoft Office) simply cannot reproduce.

That said, I just built a rig driven by the Intel i9 10 core, dual Samsung 960 pro NVMe SSDs. The 1080 Ti is driving dual 4K monitors. I can use the system with such alacrity that the allure of my iMac Pro system that sits on the other side of the desk is slowly waning.

I want the allure of the Mac back and I want the power!

 

[Robnsn2015]

Wow! Patronising and hillariously naive...

So Apple are the most valuable traded company in the world (One reason for which could be that their shares are overvalued) - based predominantly on a single product type (smartphones) which is reaching market saturation after 10 years of exponential growth. What could possibly go wrong...?

...but you still managed to miss the main point of my post which was that Apple can survive without the Mac, but the Mac can’t survive without Apple.

...and Apple’s services may only be 10% at the moment but it’s an area they are actively trying to expand, in contrast to the Mac...

Services are the fastest growing sector of Apple's business. The Mac is not. Hence, the apparent priorities.
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One of the terms used to describe Apple's esthetic vis-a-vis PC esthetic is je ne sais quoi. There is just something ineffable about the hardware-software integration that Apple offers to the end users that the marriage of the Byzantine world of PC hardware and Kafkaesque world of Microsoft Windows (along with its incestuous offspring -- Microsoft Office) simply cannot reproduce.

That said, I just built a rig driven by the Intel i9 10 core, dual Samsung 960 pro NVMe SSDs. The 1080 Ti is driving dual 4K monitors. I can use the system with such alacrity that the allure of my iMac Pro system that sits on the other side of the desk is slowly waning.

I want the allure and the Mac back and I want the power!

Yeah, I think the Surface Studio would be a counter-example.

 

[EDS66]

Services are the fastest growing sector of Apple's business. The Mac is not. Hence, the apparent priorities.
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Yeah, I think the Surface Studio would be a counter-example.

Nice screen and innovative interface, but the hardware is antediluvian (much like most of the Macs, alas...)

 

[73CortinaV8]

Sadly, Apple is being transformed into an entertainment company.

They even blew it with their the latest version of their cash-cow iphone. Tim Cook needs to go.

 

[EDS66]

Sadly, Apple is being transformed into an entertainment company.

They even blew it with their the latest version of their cash-cow iphone. Tim Cook needs to go.

That's rather categorical. In life, categorical statements are usually wrong, just like single factor explanations. I think Jobs was much more more tyrannical and despotic than TC. I think that the the size of the company is starting to hurt its output, or at least some of its output. I don't believe for a a second that Apple leadership dismisses Macintosh hardware as less important than their iToys. But I do think the company has gotten so big that it finds it difficult to be flexible enough in shifting focus dynamically.

Revenue stream is also a big part of this, but the rapid growth of Apple from a large company into a veritable behemoth is definitely to blame. I don't know the inner workings of Apple, but I am pretty sure that the engineering teams are much more abstracted from decision making management teams now than they were 10 years ago. It might seem obvious, but it would explain in part the disconnect between the dithyrambic pleas for new hardware from end users and blood-curdling silence from Apple Management.

 

[throAU]

Is there any proof that Apple's contemporary repair/replacement record is any worse than other computer hardware vendors?

I don't want to have to initiate a repair/replacement. That is lost time that i could have spent doing my job. A friend of mine had to do repair/replace 3 times inside of 3 months and thus lost an average of 1-2 days per month for 3 months wasted in replacing machine(s) and restoring from backup. That's actual time he could not service his customers.

Repair replacement is fine if the failure rate is reasonable. However, the failure rate of the new models is simply not comparable to the pre-2015 models.

I don't care how good or bad their warranty process is, if the machine is constantly needing repair, even if it is free.

No. Despite all the hysteria about the MBP butterfly keyboard, I haven't seen anyone provide actual numbers that would prove something widespread regarding that. It's all anecdotal experiences, and that includes the lawsuits that have been filed. I also haven't seen anyone provide numbers for other manufacturers reliability either.

I doubt you'll find those numbers as only Apple would have them. And good luck getting disclosure on that, when they're trying to deny the problem exists.

However, anecdotally amongst people i personally know with Retina 12" macbooks and butterfly keyboard Macbook Pros, around half of the users I know with such machines have had issues inside of 6 months. One of my friends had 3 replacement Retina 12" machines inside of 3 months (one lasted a week or less before the spacebar stopped working properly - he'd literally had the replacement a few days before it started failing - that was the last straw) and ended up swapping it for a 13" 2015 Pro (and has since been happy). He loved the form factor, but it just was not fit for purpose due to reliability issues. He previously had a Macbook Pro 2011 15", that had zero keyboard issues.

For one reason or another the old keyboards are fine, the butterfly keyboards are not.

Criticism is only constructive/productive when it's based on facts.

The facts are not available. Based on personal experience however, there's a big red flag hanging over the butterfly keyboard mechanism. One can also infer that given apple have a page dedicated to fixing issues with the butterfly mechanism with compressed air, there is an issue large enough to warrant a specific response. But yay. Who wants to carry a can of compressed air with their shiny thin and light macbook just in case the keyboard flakes out? Never in my 35 years of computing have i ever seen this requirement before.

I take all doom and gloom threads on here with a pinch of salt. But I have direct contact with plenty of people who have experience the butterfly keyboard problem and there's no way I'm buying a current gen machine until there's some sort of confirmation that the problem has been resolved.

 

[Appleaker]

Could it be that Apple is planning to unveil a completely refreshed Mac lineup in its September event? I can't imagine that Apple has any other reason for not updating their Mac lineup for such a long time. They probably want the biggest surprise effect possible.

October. It may be a Mac only event if they choose to announce the iPads at the September event.

 

[EDS66]

I don't want to have to initiate a repair/replacement. That is lost time that i could have spent doing my job. A friend of mine had to do repair/replace 3 times inside of 3 months and thus lost an average of 1-2 days per month for 3 months wasted in replacing machine(s) and restoring from backup. That's actual time he could not service his customers.

Repair replacement is fine if the failure rate is reasonable. However, the failure rate of the new models is simply not comparable to the pre-2015 models.



I doubt you'll find those numbers as only Apple would have them. And good luck getting disclosure on that, when they're trying to deny the problem exists.

However, anecdotally amongst people i personally know with Retina 12" macbooks and butterfly keyboard Macbook Pros, half of the users I know with such machines have had issues inside of 6 months. One of my friends had 3 replacement Retina 12" machines inside of 3 months (one lasted a week before the spacebar stopped working properly) and ended up swapping it for a 13" 2015 Pro (and has since been happy).



The facts are not available. Based on personal experience however, there's a big red flag hanging over the butterfly keyboard mechanism.

I take all doom and gloom threads on here with a pinch of salt. But I have direct contact with plenty of people who have experience the butterfly keyboard problem and there's no way I'm buying a current gen machine until there's some sort of confirmation that the problem has been resolved.

I am about to go to sleep, but I thought I would reply. For my Apple portable I have mid-2015 MacBook Pro retina. It's a fine piece of hardware. I've had it for a couple of years, and it has not been problematic in any way. Feeling the bug to get the new bigger and better thing, I went to the Apple store and got the 2017 MBP. it was nice. The screen was nice. I could deal with the ports, albeit reluctantly. I did not like not having MagSafe, but oh well. Mag Safe connector, by the way, should be enshrined in the IT hall of fame as one of the best inventions of all time -- right next to the telescope and light bulb.)

What I really did not like was the heat that the computer would generate and transmit through the keyboard. The keyboard, especially top left, would get very hot under load. Right away I suspected that the heat, long term, would cause problems. I consequently returned the machine. Other than the keyboard heat the computer was fine. The screen, especially, was nice -- much nicer than the 2015 MBP screen. So I am hoping that in the next several months, Apple will produce something that I can buy and rely on. I have my faith in them.

 

[wallah]

That’s the funny thing. Many people asking for Apple to update Macs more frequently actually are still using Macs from 5 years old or even older. So why would Apple do what these people demanded when they themselves are not frequent upgraders?.

Congratulations, you’ve correctly spotted the trend of infomed Mac customers not buying the last few generations of sealed up, unservicable products from Jony Ive.

Sealed up laptops that have a consumable battery guaranteed to die, and sealed up iMacs where the harddrive is (slow as molasses) also guaranteed to die—they all do at some point. Both scenarios have happend to me on earlier Macs and I replaced those consumable parts myself. Better ones in the case of HD->SSD on 3 separate ones. In recent generations, you have no choice. You have to get rid of your machine (at a discount b/c it’s not working and buy an expensive one) or get Apple to replace those items for 500+ dollars. And have your unit out of service for days if you don’t have a genius bar nearby.

Customers have been Ived in the back with this blind obsession of form over function. And manufacturing cost over function, too. At least if a fully soldered up, glued up unit was more cost-effective to make, the price would somewhat reflect that, but all the Macs run at—not just higher than PC prices—but right at the extortionate limit.

Customers were Ived in the back and rightly didn’t upgrade to expensive design mistakes. I read that over and over on here: people have really struggled to upgrade their older stuff to recent generations but were seriously put off by the compromises they would have to make.

 

[throAU]

They had a winning product, that was loved by many and turned it into a subpar mac product. Sad.

You could say that about the entire mac lineup at the moment.

 

[wallah]

Creative pros are never committed to any single product. They start with what they need and buy something matching it. And Apple doesn't sell that anymore. They pretend the best way to deliver that experience is by never updating their hardware, selling 2012 parts in 2018, but really it's reasonable to accuse them of just doing that to maintain their profit margins in the short term.

Also, the point of the Mac Pro is that sticking 12-core Xeons and pro GPUs into an all-in-one like the iMac Pro is a maintainability and heat management disaster (already shown that they underclock!), plus you can't fit more than one CPU or GPU in one unit like you're supposed to. Pros don't care that it looks nicer.

Yeah, you got Ived in the back on that.

 

[TheRealKingCol]

Maybe you should go back to college if you think Animoji development in anyway affects Mac hardware development.

I’m going to ignore your childish implication. I’m fully aware that the Animoji developers would have nothing to do with Mac hardware. You’re clearly missing the point. The point is that Apple as a company employs enough iOS devs to do things like that, yet, clearly can’t keep up with Mac hardware needs. If Mac development stagnates it will have larger implications to the rest of the company.

 

[alien3dx]

Apple waitin` co promote ... 9.9.2008 -> ICORE 9 .. Skip the ICORE 8..

 

[Bacillus]

Could it be that Apple is planning to unveil a completely refreshed Mac lineup in its September event? I can't imagine that Apple has any other reason for not updating their Mac lineup for such a long time. They probably want the biggest surprise effect possible.

I expect a 25 Teraflop MacMini, a giant fully upgradeable MacPro tower and a MBPro with 25 ports.
With fully working keyboards !
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Apple is too scared to license MacOS. For any price. When they did in the past, Power Computing, the "clone" was building a better computer, at a better price. I toured their manufacturing facility and they were getting ready to bring a huge facility on line. Then the license was pulled. They would have eaten Apple's lunch with computers.

So that will never, ever, happen again.

No. Because it pisses Cook off when others earn the money that he’s too lazy to gripe himself.

 

[SeattleMoose]

The Mac used to be the favorite child of Apple. But it is lucky if a meal is shoved under the door any more.
Meanwhile, the portables that cater to the Emoji/Social Media crowd keep sucking up all the time and resources.
And when they do get around to releasing a new Mac, they give you something like the MacBook Pro with deletion of useful interfaces (e.g. legacy ports, magsafe, etc.) and a crappy "moth" keyboard.
When it comes to Macs the movie "Idiocracy" comes to mind. Apple employees praising "Brawndo" (it has what our products need....more Emojis)

 

[Michael Goff]

Very sad really. Starting to lose the vision of Apple even being a computer company first and foremost at all.

Apple stopped being a computer company while Steve Jobs was still in charge.

 

[Lone Deranger]

Customers have been Ived in the back with this blind obsession of form over function.

Brilliant! Best quote of this thread. Kudos Sir!

 

[davidespinosa]

Which will Apple release first -- a new Mac Mini, or a self-driving car ?
It's a race !

[ I'm not the first to say it -- we're on page 76 ! ]

 

[pika2000]

Congratulations, you’ve correctly spotted the trend of infomed Mac customers not buying the last few generations of sealed up, unservicable products from Jony Ive.

And of course you forgot to even remember how Jobs didn't even want the original Macintosh to be user accessible.

 

[obiwan]

I think it's about time Tim Cook penned an open letter to the Mac community.

 

[theluggage]

I think it's about time Tim Cook penned an open letter to the Mac community.

No, we have had plenty of platitudes - it’s about time Apple released a new Mac Mini, a new Mac Pro and a proper mobile workstation (with a reliable keyboard).

 

[Val-kyrie]

This thread represents less than 0.1% of the customer base. And Internet forums have always distorted complaints because people are more motivated to whinge and moan online than post compliments. So you'll often have the view a lot of people are very unhappy if you just guage Internet forum feedback.

It is not the size of the pebble but the size of the ripples it creates which matters.

Many here are in positions to influence the buying decisions of others directly and others here are the reason iOS (and macOS) is so flush with with quality apps. Without the small percentage of enthusiast voices and software developers, there will be no future success for Apple. If Apple does not address the concerns of the vocal minority, it will lose their support and by the time Apple sees the ripples of its failures in sales, it will be too late.

 

[Abazigal]

I think it's about time Tim Cook penned an open letter to the Mac community.

I am not sure what you even want him to say.

The iMac and MacBook Pro are roughly 1 year old. The iMac pro was released at the start of the year. Apple has committed to a Mac Pro for 2019 and stated that a Mac mini is “coming soon”, though no time frame was given.

It’s not exactly the pace of Mac upgrades that users here might want, but it’s something, and truth is the Mac is never going to Apple’s top priority unlike in the 2000s.

 

[Val-kyrie]

Only if you're using one of the special variants. For most people who use Windows 10 you can only delay the reboot, not avoid it. If there's any one complaint against Windows 10 this is it.

Same complaint I have against iOS--downloading updates to my device WITHOUT my permission.

Unlike iOS, in Win 10 Pro, automatic updates can be turned off.

iPads are typically now on 12-24 month update cycles. It's fine.

I hope all those advocates for Macs on ARM remember this! Once Apple transitions, they will stagnate the lineup just like they are doing now.

 

[EdT]

Apple stopped being a computer company while Steve Jobs was still in charge.

Many of the people at the top of Apple's management today were put there by Steve Jobs. The iPad, iPhone, and the Apple TV were all started under Steve Jobs and not by Tim Cook. You can blame Tim for the time and money spent on driverless cars and the media decisions and the direction of software on all of the OS's in every device made in the last 7 years but most of the hardware decisions come from the Steve Jobs era. And a lot of the people Steve depended on to help manage the company back then are still there.

Steve made at least one very stupid decision. He died from a very treatable type of pancreatic cancer. Had it been treated immediately he probably would have extended his life by years and potentially been cured of the disease-https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/8841347/Steve-Jobs-regretted-trying-to-beat-cancer-with-alternative-medicine-for-so-long.html --

In short, Steve Jobs was not infallible.

Steve Jobs made mistakes. And the company he co-founded still bears the marks of his decisions and philosophies, for both good and bad. His desire to hide what Apple was working on, to keep details and specs secret is still very evident today. I personally think this secrecy and lack of a public road map for where products are going and when are costing the company sales on devices, especially computers. Tim Cook didn't start that policy, Steve Jobs did. People investing in hardware want to know, at least roughly, where it's going to go. And when.