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Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Markleshark, Feb 19, 2008.
Good on Porsche, the charges for owning a car in this country are becoming stupid.
They'll never win.
And though I love fast cars, there's hardly much point in driving one around London other than to show off.
Probably Porsche is trying to protect their Cayenne market more than the 911s etc
Yes, chelsea tractors are clearly an endangered species, and must be protected.
I'm finding it hard to work up much sympathy.
I certainly agree!
Markleshark - you sound like your avatar!
I am quite happy for the charge to go ahead, I rekons people that drive these things should be able to afford a few extra quid.
So they get to punish the evil rich, promote a political agenda, and screw over some german car companies...sounds like something the UK might do.
I tried twice driving through the "congestion charge" zone at about 10 pm when it is free. Unfortunately on both occasions it turned into a "congestion zone" so I won't do that again
Where Porsche certainly has a point is that the amount of the charge is quite irrational. If your car is classed as producing 224 gram/km of CO2, which is quite a lot, it costs £8 if you are not a resident, and a fraction if you are a resident. One percent more (226 gram/km) and it costs £25 per day, whether you are a resident or not. That is completely unreasonable. And here a nice quote: "By comparison the latest diesel-powered BMW X5s emit less CO2 than the Mayor of Londons preferred means of transport, the black cab. While the X5 3.0d and X5 3.0sd emit 214g/km and 216g/km respectively, the very latest LTI Vehicles TX4 2.5 produces 233g/km. "
So you can have a car that costs 25£ a day because of its CO2 emissions while producing less CO2 than a black cab that is free. It doesn't make sense. Not that driving a Porsche if you live in London isn't stupid, but I can't see a justification for a £9000 a year tax on stupidity.
I know someone who bought a B registration Porsche (that would make it about 1987 or so) for £600 and drove if for several years. I don't think he could have afforded to pay £25 a day congestion charge. That charge for a month was more than the purchase price of the car.
that tends to be way with limits; they are set at one point.
I understand what you are saying but the point is, the world's getting a little hotter, it's a small change to make and makes you look a little bit less of a to$$er... He's doing people a favour! lol
Is Porsche only challenging this charge because it makes them look good? Even they know they won't succeed, so why not just say it, put it out there for all to see, and look good in the process?
So is it a congestion charge or an emissions charge? Making it free for some cars (OK, a small number) makes no sense, since they still take up space on the road.
It seems to be a political statement more then anything. I own a Porsche (88 924s) and will be doing my part to put out some extra Co2 this weekend for my london brethren
Well thats a very responsible attitude. Well done for being so grown up.
Well done for respecting someone else's opinion.
Personally, I think the congestion charge is a criminal offense. I'm not old enough to do so yet, but don't we pay road tax etc... so we can use the roads?
Unfortunately the saved carbon from London getting rid of large engined cars is immediately lost every time a bendybus goes up in smoke
I'm all for getting rid of 4x4s in urban areas BTW. They're designed for the country, not Chiswick.
A guy who lives a couple of streets away from here drives one. It's funny to see how often he's refilling at the gas station
With you there both times. Everything about bendy buses annoy me. I swear I'm going to die by being crushed by a 453 on my Marin. Its worse that most drivers of these buses race off the lights and brake sharply. An unpleasant experience.
I'm sorry? Didnt realise criticism of other peoples irresponsible actions was not allowed on these boards.
Why do you think its a criminal offence? You might not agree with it, but its totally legal. Its not uncommon to limit traffic in city centres. In Athens (i think) they alternate between letting in odd-plated and even-plated vehicles only.
Having lived in London for a few years (and as a car driver, cyclist and public transport user), I personally think cars should be discouraged from busy London roads at busy times. Whilst the C Charge is a very crude way of doing this, there doesnt seem to be a better way to ease congestion in London.
I think my old Nissan Micra is better off road than a Cayenne.
Thats funny, because Cayenne's aren't that bad off road, and they're pretty fun in the sand with the right tires and such. Nothing like 500hp and some dunes.
If you can afford a Porsche, you can afford £25 a day.
I own 2 Porsches (albeit older- 944 & 914). I could not afford that, I am just a poor American.
I wonder what percentage of Cayennes has ever been off-road... maybe 0.5%? (snow doesn't count). It's 100% percent show off (in the case of the white Tech Art pictured, 140% show off). Hence the tax
As a pedestrian I believe it's often preferable to be hit by an SUV rather than a car, but I digress, the Congestion Charge is about neither reducing congestion nor carbon emissions and this new increase won't make any significant change to either.
It seems to be wonderfully trendy to poke fun at the bendy buses but they make a lot of sense - multiple access points mean that you can get people on and off easily without the stupid scenario where people refuse to move down or go looking for seats upstairs so everyone is stuck standing by the driver. And because they are all on one floor they are far more accessible to disabled passengers and those with restricted mobility. As a cyclist I know to steer clear of them, just as I would lorries (especially left hand drive lorries which are a far greater problem both within london and on motorways because their drivers are often inexperienced, unfamiliar with driving on the left and often don't recognise our legislation on when to take rest breaks).
I'm all in favour of changes to the congestion charge. People who whine that they have a large family and therefore need this much space are neglecting to mention that they somehow can afford to live/school their children in a part of london where you can't buy a flat for less than a quarter of a million and a house is at least four times that. People who have picked up second (third or fourth) hand porsches are not driving them through central london everyday. The fact is this will reduce congestion and increase revenue from a group of people who can afford to pay it - those who can't can easily find alternatives. In addition the new system will actually reduce the charge for smaller vehicles so before people start complaining about little old people needing to be driven to hospital appointments (etc), remember that this can now be cheaper.
I live in London and I like what Ken is trying to do with the place, it is very refreshing to have a politician who isn't afraid to make unpopular decisions (especially when the complaining is generally led by a vocal minority).
I totally disagree on this point. In London they make no sense at all. They make perfect sense in cities with nice grid pattern street layouts or with nice wide avenues such as Paris or Barcelona. However, in London's overgrown medieval track layout they make no sense at all. They are also frequently driven as a weapon, don't pull into bus stops since the the bus stops are often not long enough to accommodate them, cannot easily navigate through the city's abundance of roadworks and due to their length block junctions at pretty much every set of traffic lights. They therefore cause a ridiculous amount of congestion in the centre of London and undo any good gained from the congestion charge.
Double decker busses make sense for London. I know the Routemasters were no good for those with physical handicaps, but bendybusses are not a good choice for replacement.