Potential Benchmark for iPhone XR Successor Shows 4GB RAM, Moderate Performance Gains

[realtuner]

Sorry that's just your opinion.

When I see the following in your list:

• One App that was discontinued last December and is no longer available for download on Google Play.
  
• One App that hasn't been updated in over a year and has been replaced by a newer version with more capabilities.
• Apps that have limits on the size of the photo they can work with.
  
• Apps available on both Android and iOS that have limitations on the features for the Android version unless they have specific processors (while even the 5S with the A7 supports those features).

I know for a fact you just pulled those off a list you found somewhere. That and the fact you're comparing quick & dirty photo editors for the Instagram crowd with powerful tools like Affinity and Pixelmator.

 

[falainber]

I mentioned Photoshop because I know it’s a sore point for many who pretend the iPad is a “toy”. Even without Photoshop iOS is still light years ahead of Android on tablets. We currently have Apps like Pixelmator, Affinity or Procreate, which have nothing on Android that’s even close. Also LumaFusion mentioned above.

But hey, if you think there are comparable Apps on Android then why not list them?

The only reason some Apple fans use these apps on iPad is because they can't afford a laptop (or a desktop) after buying the iPad. For the price of an iPad Pro one can buy an Android tablet and a desktop. Any use of a serious image editing software on a tablet (with some exceptions, like sketching) is an abomination. Nobody wants this functionality on Android tablets and this is why it's not there. Tablets are useful in some limited professional scenarios (like signature collection in AT&T stores) but for the most part they are used for media consumption. And there is no better tablet for these purposes than Samsung Galaxy Tab S series (the lightest tablets with superior OLED displays).

 

[realtuner]

The only reason some Apple fans use these apps on iPad is because they can't afford a laptop (or a desktop) after buying the iPad. For the price of an iPad Pro one can buy an Android tablet and a desktop. Any use of a serious image editing software on a tablet (with some exceptions, like sketching) is an abomination. Nobody wants this functionality on Android tablets and this is why it's not there. Tablets are useful in some limited professional scenarios (like signature collection in AT&T stores) but for the most part they are used for media consumption. And there is no better tablet for these purposes than Samsung Galaxy Tab S series (the lightest tablets with superior OLED displays).

Suuure. Any excuse you can come up with to explain the complete and utter failure of Android on tablets.

 

[Cosmosent]

I think I know the Reason they reduced the sizes of the L1 & L2 caches.

Smaller cache sizes are easier to fill, & if the Perf Controller (i.e., cpu scheduler) is using multiple cores for processing, this "could" improve overall performance (under such loads).

In other words, 48KB + 48KB + 4MB is probably "the sweet spot" wrt a processor with 2 High-Perf cores & 4 High-Efficiency cores.

At least, that's what I believe Apple's R&D has determined.

BTW, the A12 has an EXTREMELY serious Hardware (Performance) Bug, & I believe this "could' ALSO be Apple's attempt at resolving that, as best as possible !

The A12 fails miserably when pushed hard ... vs. the A10 which runs like a charm !

Those skilled in the art of CPU schedulers & DDR controllers should "easily" be able to figure-out "precisely" where the issue is !

It's NOT Rocket Science, but you do need to know how computers work !

 

[falainber]

Suuure. Any excuse you can come up with to explain the complete and utter failure of Android on tablets.

If Android tablets are a failure then what is iPad? Android tablets have higher market share than iPads.

 

[cmaier]

I think I know the Reason they reduced the sizes of the L1 & L2 caches.

Smaller cache sizes are easier to fill, & if the Perf Controller (i.e., cpu scheduler) is using multiple cores for processing, this "could" improve overall performance (under such loads).

In other words, 48KB + 48KB + 4MB is probably "the sweet spot" wrt a processor with 2 High-Perf cores & 4 High-Efficiency cores.

At least, that's what I believe Apple's R&D has determined.

BTW, the A12 has an EXTREMELY serious Hardware (Performance) Bug, & I believe this "could' ALSO be Apple's attempt at resolving that, as best as possible !

The A12 fails miserably when pushed hard ... vs. the A10 which runs like a charm !

Those skilled in the art of CPU schedulers & DDR controllers should "easily" be able to figure-out "precisely" where the issue is !

It's NOT Rocket Science, but you do need to know how computers work !

1) I doubt that they actually reduced the sizes of the caches
2) “smaller cache sizes are easier to fill” - that is true. But that is a problem with small caches, not a feature. When you fill a cache and you fetch new data, you have to remove something that is already in the cache. If the cache line is dirty, you need to take a fault and write to the next level of cache or to main memory. These are bad things, not good things.

I know a guy who wrote a dissertation on caches and cache sizing: https://www.ecse.rpi.edu/frisc/theses/MaierThesis/

Chapter 2 has a lot of stuff on proper sizing.

And there is no serious hardware performance bug in A12.
[doublepost=1567543757][/doublepost]

If Android tablets are a failure then what is iPad? Android tablets have higher market share than iPads.

Market share is about 2:1 Android to iPad, that is true. But profit share is a completely different matter. Most android tablets are extremely cheap toss-away products.

 

[chucker23n1]

Your example of "all sorts of useful software" is an app that doesn't even exist yet?

Being specialised is why it took until 2019 for an iPad to even connect to an external hard drive, while Android tablets have fully featured OSs.

If you want to make the "fully featured OS tablet" argument, do it with Windows 8 (and beyond). To do it with Android is just laughable. Android tablets are fine if you want to play some movies; they're not even remotely comparable with the capabilities of an iPad Air / Surface Go, let alone an iPad Pro / Surface Pro.
[doublepost=1567544104][/doublepost]

If Android tablets are a failure then what is iPad? Android tablets have higher market share than iPads.

How many Android tablets in the $400-$1200 segment even exist, let alone are remotely useful?
[doublepost=1567544179][/doublepost]

It's a big-little architecture.

Yes, but so is A12. It's not technically big.LITTLE, but the principles are very similar.

Four small cores are generally reserved for low power mode. There are advantages for both 2 and 4 big core architectures.

And A12 has three low-power cores and three high-power cores. What's your point?

 

[falainber]

How many Android tablets in the $400-$1200 segment even exist, let alone are remotely useful?

Do tablets have to cost more than $400 to be useful? Tablets are useful mostly for media consumption. These devices should not be expensive (unless they offer OLED screens). Apple manages to sell more expensive tablets but this has more to do with the nature of their customers who eagerly overspend to get a new toy without necessarily having a need for the device (and then come to MR and try to figure out what to use them for - just look at the iPad Pro related threads).

 

[realtuner]

If Android tablets are a failure then what is iPad? Android tablets have higher market share than iPads.

Oh look, the market share fallacy. McDonalds has a higher market share of burgers. Doesn't make them better.

I can go to 7-11 right now and buy an Android tablet for $39. That's why they have high market share - because they are dirt-cheap disposable devices used for the most menial of tasks.

 

[chucker23n1]

Do tablets have to cost more than $400 to be useful? Tablets are useful mostly for media consumption.

Not high-end tablets, no. You might buy an iPad Pro with Apple Pencil and then mainly watch videos on it, but that would be stupid.

Apple manages to sell more expensive tablets but this has more to do with the nature of their customers who eagerly overspend to get a new toy without necessarily having a need for the device (and then come to MR and try to figure out what to use them for - just look at the iPad Pro related threads).

Yes, yes, Apple customers are sheep. The 90s are coming, they want their meme back.

Just because Google failed to make a good Android tablet ecosystem doesn't mean Apple and Microsoft did equally poorly, and just because your use case heavily relies on keyboard and mouse doesn't mean everyone's does.

 

[falainber]

Oh look, the market share fallacy. McDonalds has a higher market share of burgers. Doesn't make them better.

I can go to 7-11 right now and buy an Android tablet for $39. That's why they have high market share - because they are dirt-cheap disposable devices used for the most menial of tasks.

I am not sure what you have against McDonalds burgers but your analogy is really weird since you are trying to use McDonalds as an example of a failure. Yes, there is a market for high-end burgers (which may cost hundreds of dollars). The problem is that this market is so small that large companies ignore it.
[doublepost=1567546088][/doublepost]

Not high-end tablets, no. You might buy an iPad Pro with Apple Pencil and then mainly watch videos on it, but that would be stupid.



Yes, yes, Apple customers are sheep. The 90s are coming, they want their meme back.

Just because Google failed to make a good Android tablet ecosystem doesn't mean Apple and Microsoft did equally poorly, and just because your use case heavily relies on keyboard and mouse doesn't mean everyone's does.

I use tablets for media consumption and I do not use keyboard at all. I do use keyboard heavily at work. There is a reason iPad Pro has a keyboard accessory too. Without it, it would be a totally lost cause. With it, some people are trying desperately to come up with the workarounds for iPad shortcomings (as a productivity tool) but their best case scenario is still just a limited laptop. The smaller iPad Pro is a decent media consumption device. It's overpriced for this purpose but if people can afford it, that's not a big deal. The large iPad Pro is a total albatross.

And again, you fail to recognize that more people use "failed" Google tablet ecosystem than Apple tablet ecosystem.

 

[realtuner]

I am not sure what you have against McDonalds burgers but your analogy is really weird since you are trying to use McDonalds as an example of a failure. Yes, there is a market for high-end burgers (which may cost hundreds of dollars). The problem is that this market is so small that large companies ignore it.

I never said McDonalds was a failure. I'm saying market share is a meaningless number to use to try and compare the success of companies. It's a tactic used by Android fans since they have nothing else they can put in the "win" when comparing to iOS. So they always trot out the tired old meme of "market share".

Eric Schmidt in December 2011 when asked why developers favour iOS over Android:

Six months from now you’ll say the opposite. Because ultimately applications vendors are driven by volume. And the volume is favored by the open approach that Google is taking.

Oh how utterly wrong he was. Yet here we are 8 years later and we STILL have people like you incorrectly bringing up market share as if it matters.

Here's a clue: Market share only matters when comparing products in the same category. iPads don't compete with the gazillion throwaway Android tablets sold around the world. Just like the iPhone doesn't compete with disposable Android feature phones selling in the billions.

And again, you fail to recognize that more people use "failed" Google tablet ecosystem than Apple tablet ecosystem.

Again you fail to realize that market share is meaningless. Developers have abandoned Android tablets. There's no money to be made trying to create Apps for $39 tablets that lack the features/power to do anything other then the most simple tasks, let alone expect those buyers to shell out $10 or $20 for an App that costs half the price of their tablet. Meanwhile the iPad enjoys several hundred thousand tablet optimized Apps and developers are STILL developing for it. And when iPadOS drops in the next few weeks developer interest is going to increase further while Android continues to stagnate.

 

[cdpage]

I have a friend who needs to upgrade her broken 6S and honestly with the upcoming price drop, I think the iPhone XR might still be the sweet spot for the casual iphone buyer. The 11 seems to be minimal updates.

I'm hoping the new XR can come in a lower price point. if so they can drop the old XR completely. if they do this, that model would SELL big time.

Either way I'm sure i'll be picking up one of the XR options.

 

[falainber]

I never said McDonalds was a failure. I'm saying market share is a meaningless number to use to try and compare the success of companies. It's a tactic used by Android fans since they have nothing else they can put in the "win" when comparing to iOS. So they always trot out the tired old meme of "market share".

Eric Schmidt in December 2011 when asked why developers favour iOS over Android:

Oh how utterly wrong he was. Yet here we are 8 years later and we STILL have people like you incorrectly bringing up market share as if it matters.

Here's a clue: Market share only matters when comparing products in the same category. iPads don't compete with the gazillion throwaway Android tablets sold around the world. Just like the iPhone doesn't compete with disposable Android feature phones selling in the billions.


Again you fail to realize that market share is meaningless. Developers have abandoned Android tablets. There's no money to be made trying to create Apps for $39 tablets that lack the features/power to do anything other then the most simple tasks, let alone expect those buyers to shell out $10 or $20 for an App that costs half the price of their tablet. Meanwhile the iPad enjoys several hundred thousand tablet optimized Apps and developers are STILL developing for it. And when iPadOS drops in the next few weeks developer interest is going to increase further while Android continues to stagnate.

Stop pretending that iPads are in a different category. The Pros are in a different price category for sure but we don't even know how many people are buying them (Apple does not disclose the data). Most iPads (regular and Pro) are still used the same way as most Android tablets are - for media consumption, Internet browsing and some e-mailing (i.e. sofa device). Besides, people who buy the keyboards for iPads should not even be considered tablet users. Tablet with a keyboard is a [crippled] laptop. The folding mechanics is different but it's not a tablet anymore.

 

[chucker23n1]

I use tablets for media consumption and I do not use keyboard at all. I do use keyboard heavily at work. There is a reason iPad Pro has a keyboard accessory too. Without it, it would be a totally lost cause. With it, some people are trying desperately to come up with the workarounds for iPad shortcomings (as a productivity tool) but their best case scenario is still just a limited laptop. The smaller iPad Pro is a decent media consumption device. It's overpriced for this purpose but if people can afford it, that's not a big deal. The large iPad Pro is a total albatross.

And again, you fail to recognize that more people use "failed" Google tablet ecosystem than Apple tablet ecosystem.

OK.

Why is Adobe bringing Photoshop to the iPad? Are they stupid, too? Is Photoshop for media consumption? Or for "limited laptops"? Or a "total albatross"?

Could it be that you're reading the market wrong?

 

[falainber]

Eric Schmidt in December 2011 when asked why developers favour iOS over Android:

Oh how utterly wrong he was. Yet here we are 8 years later and we STILL have people like you incorrectly bringing up market share as if it matters.

If he was wrong then why is it that Play Store now has 25% more apps than App Store? 8 years ago the ratio was quite different.

 

[falainber]

OK.

Why is Adobe bringing Photoshop to the iPad? Are they stupid, too? Is Photoshop for media consumption? Or for "limited laptops"? Or a "total albatross"?

Could it be that you're reading the market wrong?

It could be. It could also be that Adobe is wrong. To be clear, there is a use case for Photoshop on a tablet. Pen interface is a natural fit for retouching type of workflow. This alone may justify having it on the tablets. But that's a pretty niche use case that won't make or break the future of the tablets as productivity devices.

 

[realtuner]

Stop pretending that iPads are in a different category. The Pros are in a different price category for sure but we don't even know how many people are buying them (Apple does not disclose the data). Most iPads (regular and Pro) are still used the same way as most Android tablets are - for media consumption, Internet browsing and some e-mailing (i.e. sofa device). Besides, people who buy the keyboards for iPads should not even be considered tablet users. Tablet with a keyboard is a [crippled] laptop. The folding mechanics is different but it's not a tablet anymore.

Not pretending at all. You're the one who's delusional by comparing garbage Android tablets to the iPad and acting as if they're somehow in the same category.

If he was wrong then why is it that Play Store now has 25% more apps than App Store? 8 years ago the ratio was quite different.

I was just HOPING you'd bring this up, so I left it out intentionally. Android apparently has 85% of the market and iOS has 15% (this according to previous posts of yours).

• How is it that Google Play only has 25% more Apps yet has 5x the number of users? You think that's impressive? Shouldn't Google Play have 5x as many Apps to go with that 5x user count?
  
• How is it that Google Play revenues are about 1/2 that of The App Store? Shouldn't their revenues be 5x as high to go with 5x number of users?

Really curious how this market share thing works when you have 5x the number of users but none of the related metrics reflect that 5x share advantage.

 

[hagjohn]

Do we have to argue in every thread?

 

[4487549]

I haven’t checked out the XR in person really and with the 2019 edition about to drop, obviously will wait on the new dim’s, screen type and res specs before considering. Thanks for the heads up. Good idea to compare to the X for res and to the X and older Plus models for body comparison.

I walked into an Apple Store last fall, and compared them all in-hand. Opened Mail, Safari... anything to show screen real estate. In the end, I walked out with my 8+. I also can't stand the tall and skinny aspect ratio. We'll see if this fall yields a different outcome...

 

[falainber]

Not pretending at all. You're the one who's delusional by comparing garbage Android tablets to the iPad and acting as if they're somehow in the same category.


I was just HOPING you'd bring this up, so I left it out intentionally. Android apparently has 85% of the market and iOS has 15% (this according to previous posts of yours).

• How is it that Google Play only has 25% more Apps yet has 5x the number of users? You think that's impressive? Shouldn't Google Play have 5x as many Apps to go with that 5x user count?
  
• How is it that Google Play revenues are about 1/2 that of The App Store? Shouldn't their revenues be 5x as high to go with 5x number of users?

Really curious how this market share thing works when you have 5x the number of users but none of the related metrics reflect that 5x share advantage.

Nobody needs 5x number of apps because there that amount of ideas/use cases simply does not exist. Both Play Store and App Store are filled with tons and tons of identical mediocre apps. The point here is that market share did the trick in that Android app store reached and then surpassed App Store very quickly.

As far as revenues are concerned, it's very difficult to get the full picture. Here are a few factors:

* When they talk about the app store revenues, do they count advertising? Android apps prefer add-supported model.
* iOS has one App Store. Android has many (the main ones being Play Store and Amazon store but the Chinese app market is huge and it's not counted towards Play Store).
* Do Amazon's Prime subscriptions (which come with Prime Video) count as Android app revenues?

So, while App Store may have higher revenues than Play Store, Android may still be on top in total app revenues.

 

[cmaier]

* When they talk about the app store revenues, do they count advertising? Android apps prefer add-supported model.

That’s hardly unique to android. Most apps in the App Store are ad-supported.

 

[Virinprew]

“640 kilobytes should be enough for everyone”

That score, if real, is incredible.

I’m on iPhone SE with A9 and have no problem doing everything I do from web browsing, navigation, taking photos, watching YouTube and video call. There is a threshold on everything my friend that when you cross, you cross. And I remember my iPhone 3G days. That one was like the 640 kB you mentioned. But that was long ago.

 

[Taiyed123]

Uh, oh.

This will surely cause anxiety among many. 5,415 single core? That’s an insane result for a phone SoC. What’s the 855+ at? 3,600 or so? There’s even an early rumored 865 score of around 4,150. That’s what the A11 scored.

These scores don't really mean anything more. The fact is the One Plus 7 Pro is probably the fastest feeling phone out right now.

There's quite a few videos hitting YouTube right now of iPhone 7 and 8 performing everyday tasks faster than XR and XS in many cases, for some reason.

 

[mi7chy]

4GB DRAM is just catching up to 4GB Moto G7 that has been as low as $200. For $750 starting price the iPhone Xr should really come with at least 6GB if not 8GB since it competes price wise with more feature rich Galaxy Note 10 256GB storage version.

While they're at it also put 4GB in the base iPad since it's gimped with only 2GB.