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PowerBook and iBook Confirmation?
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LaMerVipere
macrumors 6502a
tsk
macrumors 6502a
gotohamish said:
So clearly, Apple could just stop doing any work, up their price to $10k per system, and there would still people who would say it's great, it's an Apple and buy it and tell people to stop complaining?
Sorry, but as much as you yawn, it's alright to complain. If people were all happy little lemmings, Apple wouldn't have to do anything and they'd still buy. I honestly doubt that's a good business idea.
If it is true that the next iBook update (supposedly tomorrow) will bring 12" iBooks running at 1Ghz will this mean that Apple will be using the MPC 7447? Since the current iBook CPU (AFAIK) is the 7445 which tops out at 1Ghz it would make sense for Apple to jump up to the 7447 to accomodate higher clock speeds for the 14" models.
This gets me thinking because the 7447 has 512k of L2 cache which will considerably close the gap between the iBooks and Powerbooks. Perhaps it is possible to lock part of the cache.
If I remember rightly the PPC750GX (with 1MB L2 cache) has four "blocks" of 256k with each block being independent and capable of being locked and therefore unused - so maybe the iBooks will keep their 256k L2 if this technique is available to Moto G4s.
Also I wonder which CPU is used in the eMacs since it could be 7447, the 7457 or the 7447A. All of these have 512k L2 cache and are capable of 1.25Ghz and with the AIO enclosure of the eMac you may think they will use the lower power (less heat emission) versions. These of course would also be used in the laptops which would probably prove cheaper for Apple since they'd only require a single model of G4 rather than two or three similar yet different variants.
As for the Powerbooks. I believe they'll be speed bumped G4s. However those of you waiting for a better GPU may be disappointed. Since this may well be the last iteration of the Powerbook G4 I would imagine that Apple would not devote time/money putting better graphics into a soon to be obsolete notebook.
With the Powerbook G5, Apple has the opportunity to go all out, just like they did with the PowerMac G5 - I for one hope they do!
This gets me thinking because the 7447 has 512k of L2 cache which will considerably close the gap between the iBooks and Powerbooks. Perhaps it is possible to lock part of the cache.
If I remember rightly the PPC750GX (with 1MB L2 cache) has four "blocks" of 256k with each block being independent and capable of being locked and therefore unused - so maybe the iBooks will keep their 256k L2 if this technique is available to Moto G4s.
Also I wonder which CPU is used in the eMacs since it could be 7447, the 7457 or the 7447A. All of these have 512k L2 cache and are capable of 1.25Ghz and with the AIO enclosure of the eMac you may think they will use the lower power (less heat emission) versions. These of course would also be used in the laptops which would probably prove cheaper for Apple since they'd only require a single model of G4 rather than two or three similar yet different variants.
As for the Powerbooks. I believe they'll be speed bumped G4s. However those of you waiting for a better GPU may be disappointed. Since this may well be the last iteration of the Powerbook G4 I would imagine that Apple would not devote time/money putting better graphics into a soon to be obsolete notebook.
With the Powerbook G5, Apple has the opportunity to go all out, just like they did with the PowerMac G5 - I for one hope they do!
tkermit
macrumors 68040
sushi said:
I don't get it. I've got an iBook G4 in front of me. In my opinion even if you're just a so-called consumer you would actually need a more powerful system for being really productive doing several basic tasks (only if there wasn't the price you'd have to pay for it...).
Let's just pick an example. I regularly plan my auto routes going to http://www.map24.co.uk/ , which uses a Java system. It is WAY too slow on my iBook. You actually have to wait several seconds for the map to move.
On the other hand it works perfectly fine (instantly) on the Duron 1600 sitting right next to me (a CPU that cost me 30 ). This is actually a mainstream-application, something that EVERYONE uses once in a while (well most people on occasion).
Now, I really LOVE my iBook and rarely use the Duron, just because of OS X, but man, If I had the money, I wouldn't be playing around with this anymore.
Believe me, I'm doing mostly basic consumer tasks, but in today's times you need at least some basic speed from your computer even for that (and I gotta say, the iBook just barely delivers).
Don't get me wrong, this is no Mac-bashing or anything, just wanted to state, that most of you guys make it sound like every non-professional could easily get by (and be productive) with even some G3-400 :-o . Of course it's possible, but I for one wouldn't call it productive...
Any comments ? Is it just me ?
btw: another example http://www.bergen-guide.com/download.asp?id=2
it takes several seconds, just to navigate in this pdf map in "preview" (instantly on the duron 1600)
DTG said:
I would assume that the graphics board is easily* changed.
*by easily I mean hard, but less so for computer engineers.
zelman said:
Most likely. However if Apple goes with the R9700m with 128MB VRAM then what will be left for the Powerbook G5s? Sure there will be newer chipsets with time, but I think Apple will keep this one for the G5s.
Of course, I could always be wrong.
LaMerVipere
macrumors 6502a
tkermit said:
I agree, my iBook G4 is rather sluggish as well (Especially when I've got Photoshop, iChat, iMovie, iTunes & Safari running at the same time, the system is VERY sluggish) Or sometimes, for no reason it just freezes up totally for like 5 minutes, making that gurgly sound so you know it's doing something, and I get the spinning pinwheel of death after I just double-click a jpeg image (and I'm not even doing anything else at the time), I mean how hard can it be for Preview to open? I plan on ditching it for a PB this summer if all goes well.
Some_Big_Spoon
macrumors 6502a
Preach on!!
Don't let the lemmings get you down.. we should always expect better things, regardless of what the kiddies and zealots say.
Don't let the lemmings get you down.. we should always expect better things, regardless of what the kiddies and zealots say.
tsk said:
tkermit said:
What you're seeing is the difference between an highly optimized Java VM and a poor implementation... What's the memory difference between the two machines?
One of the main complaints we have is people who say "the G5 is cheaper and cooler, why can't they just drop it in?" Most of us know there is a lot more too it than that...like a completely redesigned architecture.
The opposite is true for updating the G4 PB's, including the GPU. The new Motorola G4 chips are pin for pin compatible, which means they can basically be dropped in the existing board design, and I am pretty sure the ATI 9700 is also pin compatible with the 9600, which means they could drop it into the existing board design, then make some minor software changes.
Updating the GPU is not that big of a deal, as long as it specs out to be compatible with the board design. An example of this is the original 17" PB had a nVidia GPU, the Rev B of the 17" has the ATI 9600.
Cheers!
The opposite is true for updating the G4 PB's, including the GPU. The new Motorola G4 chips are pin for pin compatible, which means they can basically be dropped in the existing board design, and I am pretty sure the ATI 9700 is also pin compatible with the 9600, which means they could drop it into the existing board design, then make some minor software changes.
Updating the GPU is not that big of a deal, as long as it specs out to be compatible with the board design. An example of this is the original 17" PB had a nVidia GPU, the Rev B of the 17" has the ATI 9600.
Cheers!
LaMerVipere said:
Depending on what you do in Photoshop, it could make *any* machine sluggish. I'm guessing that you're running out of memory and OS X is having to page to/from disk which is an order of magnitude slower than having it in memory.
Some_Big_Spoon
macrumors 6502a
Apple Store is still up, and NAB has (supposedly) begun... Maybe they'll update later? Tomorrow? Never?
Some_Big_Spoon
macrumors 6502a
klaus said:
Just to clarify: Java isn't slow. The VM implementations vary greatly... Its the same with compiler output of legacy languages: Some compilers generate faster, smaller code than others given the same input source. Its like saying COBOL is slow (which its not)...
tkermit
macrumors 68040
reorx said:
Duron: 512mb
iBook: 640mb
Isn't it Apple who always say that "Mac OS X delivers Java 2 on every system. Apple has optimized Java on Mac OS X to look great and perform superbly, making Mac OS X the ultimate platform for developing and deploying cross-platform Java applications" ... BS ?
Some_Big_Spoon
macrumors 6502a
AAAARRRRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!
Ok - the Apple show @ NAB started at 7:00pm (GMT) - PLLLEEEEEAAAAASSSEEEEE!!!!! If anyone knows anything about the specs, tell us pleeeeaaasseee.
I'm still going to wait for G5 PB! lol
Ok - the Apple show @ NAB started at 7:00pm (GMT) - PLLLEEEEEAAAAASSSEEEEE!!!!! If anyone knows anything about the specs, tell us pleeeeaaasseee.
I'm still going to wait for G5 PB! lol
There might be a webcast of the show! Can someone check as I'm only on a 56K (not that its ever been that) line. They might even webcast pics of the new line up!!!
"Calm down dear! It's just a commercial!" lol
"Calm down dear! It's just a commercial!" lol
tkermit said:
Yeah I'd say it's BS! For some reason, there are a few things which PCs run circles around Macs at. Acrobat PDF viewing is one. Gawd-awful slow on Macs.
But my main peeve is Java performance. My main problem app is JBuilder. My 600MHz Pentium 3 at work outpaces JBuilder on my PBG4/800 by a lot. It's mostly the interface that's slow, but compiling programs is also close to 2x faster on the PC! It's more than usable on the PBG4, but Java apps on Windows run at native user interface speed, which is anything but true on Macs.