PowerBook and iBook Confirmation?

[marmotte]

Do not use the currency exchange rate

I think you're still wrong:


The site says "Ce sont les Tarifs HT en Europe/ toutes taxes en France," which translates to "these are the HT prices in Europe/all taxes in France". I take that to mean the first price is the price without tax for Europe, the second is the price with tax in France.

I'm not going to do all of these, but let's take the 12-inch ibook as an example. The first price is the european price, without French taxes: 1002 euros. That would compute out to $1199, pre-tax. After taxes, we have 1199 euros, or $1430 (which apple would probably round to $1399). Your conversion was $1099.

Actually, it looks like the easiest way to translate to american prices is just to look at the French price with tax, which corresponds quite well (coincidentally) to the US price in dollars.

Forget the currency exchange rate.

Just look at the current price on the Apple France web site (Eur 1199 for a 12" 1 GHz PB), look at "La Pomme"'s prediction (Eur 1199 TTC): the price has not changed. Conclusion: The US price for the same laptop will not change either: the 12" 1GHz PB will stay at its current US price: $1099.

Now look at the current price on the Apple France web site (Eur 2988.80 for a 15" 1.25 GHz SuperDrive PB), look at "La Pomme"'s prediction for the new configuration it replaces (Eur 2749 TTC): the price has dropped 8%. The current US price for the same Powerbook is US$2599. Conclusion: If the US price for the same laptop drops 8% as well (which is the assumption for the entire exercise), the 15" 1.42 GHz SuperDrive PB will have a US price 8% below the current configuration it replaces or: $2599-208 = 2391, i.e. roughly $2399.

Do the same for the other configurations and you get my numbers.

MM

 

[aswitcher]

One clarification to my above post, since I re-read aswitcher's comment. There are no "problems" whatsoever with the G5. The chips exceed expectations in every way. But putting a new chip in a notebook is more than a matter of just swiching it out. To give only one example, if Apple were to release a much faster PowerBook that took a noticeable battery life hit, people would complain. People expect progress on every front at once, or at the very least, they expect that *no aspect* of a new product will be inferior to an old one. To a company, that usually means that the speed of adoption (say, of new chips) is sometimes slower than what people would want, but it's well worth it in terms of keeping actual customers satisfied with what they buy.

elo

Damn. I don't think I can wait til 2005. The PBG5 will likely be a great machine but 9+ months is a long time and I have been waiting about 7 already...

Can you say anything more on specs about the G4PB due out? Does it have a better screen? Will the G5PB have?

 

[aswitcher]

aSwitcher:

How's things? I found that quote from Jobs in an old MacRumors post:

https://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030921161035.shtml

I think it was September 2003.

Cheers!

Ok, so Paris 2003...mmm..."like" (as others have pointed out)...mmm... Well if the pricing on the 17" is the almost the same as the 15", and its reduced, I guess they aren't going to do much but bump the video card (a little ) and maybe a few other minor minor tweaks and that's it. Seems the winner of these delays is the iBook...

Huff. What to do...

 

[Hattig]

> M9421LL/A Powerbook 15 Combo 1.42 Ghz... 1798/2151
> M9422LL/A Powerbook 15 Superdrive 1.42 Ghz... 2298/2749
> M9462LL/A Powerbook 17, 1.5 Ghz... 2499/2989

Right ... so the mere act of upgrading the combo drive to a superdrive will add €600 to the price of the Powerbook, but upgrading to a 17" screen and a faster processor beyond that is only another $250 ... ?

What does the Superdrive 15" Powerbook have that the Combodrive 15" Powerbook doesn't?

If it doesn't have anything more, then more reasonable prices would be (inc. tax, as tax is part of the price in Europe, not an extra as in the US, so sold prices usually hit nice round numbers including the tax):

M9421LL/A Powerbook 15" Combodrive 1.42 GHz ... €2149
M9422LL/A Powerbook 15" Superdrive 1.42 GHz ... €2449
M9462LL/A Powerbook 17" Superdrive 1.50 GHz ... €2999

I personally don't trust that French site's details. However if it is true, then a 12" iBook 1 GHz G4 will probably be sold either at £799 in the UK. The current price is £849 for the 800 MHz G4. OTOH you can't underestimate the power of the 10% Apple Foreign Tax.

 

[Hattig]

>
M9421LL/A Powerbook 15" Combodrive 1.42 GHz ... €2149
M9422LL/A Powerbook 15" Superdrive 1.42 GHz ... €2449
M9462LL/A Powerbook 17" Superdrive 1.50 GHz ... €2999

And these in Dollars would be:

15": $2099
15": $2399 (remember this is my more logical price I'm converting)
17": $2949 (or even $2899)

(I took 19.6% tax off of French price, then used xe.com to convert, then rounded down to the nearest $50 to account for Apple International Tax)

The current prices are $1999, $2599 and $2999 - I don't see Apple wanting to lose that $1999 pricepoint either for the 15" which gives you an idea about how bad Apple International Tax is. Note that the current PBs have a 25% processor speed difference between the 15" CD and the 15" SD which is apparently gone with the new revisions too.

 

[TWinbrook46636]

> M9421LL/A Powerbook 15 Combo 1.42 Ghz... 1798/2151
> M9422LL/A Powerbook 15 Superdrive 1.42 Ghz... 2298/2749
> M9462LL/A Powerbook 17, 1.5 Ghz... 2499/2989

Right ... so the mere act of upgrading the combo drive to a superdrive will add €600 to the price of the Powerbook, but upgrading to a 17" screen and a faster processor beyond that is only another $250 ... ?

What does the Superdrive 15" Powerbook have that the Combodrive 15" Powerbook doesn't?

Probably a larger hard drive, more ram and Airport.

 

[AndrewMT]

This question may never get answered because it is on the ninth page! Anyway, what exactly is the difference between a "new model" laptop and a "revised" laptop?

 

[Ja Di ksw]

What does the Superdrive 15" Powerbook have that the Combodrive 15" Powerbook doesn't?

What I've always found interesting is if you go to the Apple store and try to match up the combo drive 15" and the superdrive 15". Make everything the same, same HD, both with a superdrive, etc. The only things they have that you can't make the same are the one that started out as a superdrive has a backlight on its keyboard and a faster processor (1.25 instead of 1 GHz). Price difference (this is with a student discount on BOTH items)? $73. The difference in cost to get a keyboard with a backlight and a processor that's 25% faster is $73. And this is for a machine that costs roughly a couple thousand.

 

[Oirectine]

This question may never get answered because it is on the ninth page! Anyway, what exactly is the difference between a "new model" laptop and a "revised" laptop?

Basically a revision implies just simple speed bumps on the existing design, and a new model would mean a new design all together. For example:

Around September or October of 2003, 15" Powerbooks were the "Titanium" models. The case was made of Titanium, the ports were on the back, and the look was similar to the previous version of Titanium PowerBooks. Then in September or October, Apple released the Aluminium 15" Powerbook--the case changed to aluminum, the ports were moved to the side, etc. It looked completely different, and as such, was not really a "revision" of the TiBooks, but a "new model." If Apple comes out with another "revision" of the Aluminum PowerBooks, the basic features (the look, design, and construction of the laptop) will remain pretty much the same, while a "new model" would imply a completely new design.

Does that make sense?

 

[Hattig]

This question may never get answered because it is on the ninth page! Anyway, what exactly is the difference between a "new model" laptop and a "revised" laptop?

Revised: Take previous laptop design (motherboard, casing) and use a faster but pin compatible processor, a larger hard drive, and larger memory, and maybe a better, but pin compatible, graphics processor. Maybe not all of these at the same time. Released at smaller events unless nothing is happening at all at a large event.

New Model: New motherboard design, possibly new casing design (say 50% of the time) all specifications improved. This is a Steve Jobs announcement type thing.

The iBook G4 last year was a new model, but used the old casing. This new iBook will be a revision (same innards but faster) but there are rumours of a new casing for it similar to the iPod mini styling. So if this comes to pass, it is more than a revision, but not quite a new model

 

[Stoffel]

I just hope they put the backlit keyboard in the 12 inch model, too.

 

[QCassidy352]

Y'know what I'd like? A PB or iB with IBM's updated G-variant, the 750vx.

Remember that? It supposed to be shipping in quantity "end of 3rd quarter". Well, this is the end of Apple's fiscal 3rd quarter is it not?

The 750vx was supposed to be hitting the ground running at abot 1.6 to 2.2 GHz, have a vector unit equivalent to the G5, plus a 400MHz FSB. In other words, it's a G3 with Altivec equivalent, an FSB 2.4x faster than what the G4 will ever have, clocked to begin with at a speed faster than the G4 has ever attained.

What the hell happened to it? We've heard nothing about this chip in aeons, it's seemed like. Forget the G5; I don't need to search terabyte databases on a notebook, fercryinoutloud. I just need a fast, modern 32-bit chip that cosumes low power and can run Panther. The fabled 750vx fits all of these criteria to a giant capitol T.

C'mon Apple! Throw us a better bone here, will ya? And IBM, where is this new portable chip??? What's going on!

Just imagine: iBook, 1.6GHz 750vx, 1 gig ram, $1400 tops...mmmmm

an excellent point. I don't think it will happen since we have not heard anything about this chip in ages, but it would be the perfect answer for notebooks. Perhaps IBM is experiencing difficulties mass producing this chip due to the problems at Fishkill. Or maybe the chip isn't ready. Or maybe Apple is stubbornly sticking with moto's G4 for some inexplicable reason (1 button mouse, anyone?). I'd love to see 750vx chips in laptops too, but I think we'll be getting speedbumped Motorola G4s.

 

[ketha]

Well as someone who is looking to buy his first powerbook, the thing that shocked me most when looking at them was how much better the new sony viao onxy LCD screens look compared with almost anything available on any other platform. i think apples needs an ultra-portable form factor as well. i'm not sure if sony own the rights to this "onyx black LCD", but if not apple need to use this, and now.

 

[AidenShaw]

So the worst thing that will happen with 64-bit is that the size of data will increase in applications where 64-bit integers are useful, and hence processor cache will be used up a little bit more.

Same issue with pointers in the data. They use more cache, and more memory bandwidth as well.

That's why many (or most) programs should and will remain 32-bit. Not only will they avoid the "data bloat", but they will also be able to run on the huge portion of the installed base that does not have G5 systems.

The only programs that will go to 64-bit in the near future are those that can benefit from the increased virtual memory (and almost always they'll need increased real memory as well).

 

[aswitcher]

And these in Dollars would be:

15": $2099
15": $2399 (remember this is my more logical price I'm converting)
17": $2949 (or even $2899)

(I took 19.6% tax off of French price, then used xe.com to convert, then rounded down to the nearest $50 to account for Apple International Tax)

The current prices are $1999, $2599 and $2999 - I don't see Apple wanting to lose that $1999 pricepoint either for the 15" which gives you an idea about how bad Apple International Tax is. Note that the current PBs have a 25% processor speed difference between the 15" CD and the 15" SD which is apparently gone with the new revisions too.

Please remember that foreign prices are hardly US+local taxes. In Australia there is roughly a 15%-36% markup on machines (of which GST would form part).

So I am vaguely hopeful that if I am only going to get a G4 this year and its not really that much different from the one available in Sept 03, at least it will be cheaper and almost all the bugs will be gone...

 

[aswitcher]

Well as someone who is looking to buy his first powerbook, the thing that shocked me most when looking at them was how much better the new sony viao onxy LCD screens look compared with almost anything available on any other platform. i think apples needs an ultra-portable form factor as well. i'm not sure if sony own the rights to this "onyx black LCD", but if not apple need to use this, and now.

Yeah the Apple screen resolutions are somewhat dated compared to the high end PC laptop market. Its a point of issue for a few of us who are looking at buying. If the new rev rumoured for next week had a screen resolution bump I would be very happy. With Digitial photography and video, a larger desktop is a very good thing.

 

[goof_ball]

dont expect to have G5 pbooks in hand til at least january '05.

It'd be nice to see them out for the Xmas rush, but I have a feeling they will come out early next year too.

Lets hope I'm wrong.

 

[Photorun]

Perfectly? No. Although I have to say Warcraft III runs pretty well even on my 800 MHz PowerBook (Radeon 7500) at 1280x854. And for some games, a G4 'Book will never get it done. Halo, for example, can cripple even a dual 2.0 GHz G5 with Radeon 9800 when you crank up the settings.

Not true, if you turn down the lens flare in Halo (which you cannot, absolutely cannot tell the difference but for some reason it's processor intensive, I've seen this time and time again, no difference) you can max all settings on Halo on max on a G5 1.8 DP with 9600 at 1680 X 1050 on a 20" CD, no problems. My friend has a 17 inch PB with a 1.25 G4 and it plays Halo and UT2K4 okay on max, but just about flawlessly if you turn down the settings just a smidge. If that one rumor of the 128 card being available for a PB that's coming out Monday is true, should be able to run Halo or UT2K4 with no problems. The other games are cakewalk to run already so I didn't mention them.

 

[Snowy_River]

Y'know what I'd like? A PB or iB with IBM's updated G-variant, the 750vx.

Remember that? It supposed to be shipping in quantity "end of 3rd quarter". Well, this is the end of Apple's fiscal 3rd quarter is it not?

The 750vx was supposed to be hitting the ground running at abot 1.6 to 2.2 GHz, have a vector unit equivalent to the G5, plus a 400MHz FSB. In other words, it's a G3 with Altivec equivalent, an FSB 2.4x faster than what the G4 will ever have, clocked to begin with at a speed faster than the G4 has ever attained.

What the hell happened to it? We've heard nothing about this chip in aeons, it's seemed like. Forget the G5; I don't need to search terabyte databases on a notebook, fercryinoutloud. I just need a fast, modern 32-bit chip that cosumes low power and can run Panther. The fabled 750vx fits all of these criteria to a giant capitol T.

C'mon Apple! Throw us a better bone here, will ya? And IBM, where is this new portable chip??? What's going on!

Just imagine: iBook, 1.6GHz 750vx, 1 gig ram, $1400 tops...mmmmm

I'm not sure that chip was ever anything other than hearsay and educated guesses. I think that it makes sense, but whether Apple and IBM want to pursue it or not is a bigger question.

We can hope that this is still somewhere in the pipeline...

 

[Snowy_River]

What I've always found interesting is if you go to the Apple store and try to match up the combo drive 15" and the superdrive 15". Make everything the same, same HD, both with a superdrive, etc. The only things they have that you can't make the same are the one that started out as a superdrive has a backlight on its keyboard and a faster processor (1.25 instead of 1 GHz). Price difference (this is with a student discount on BOTH items)? $73. The difference in cost to get a keyboard with a backlight and a processor that's 25% faster is $73. And this is for a machine that costs roughly a couple thousand.

Yes, but you're also paying a customization cost on the slower model. So, your cost comparison is just a little off....

 

[Photorun]

Snowy, If I could offer more than I have, I would. It's immaterial to me whether you believe me or not. But I wouldn't suggest betting against my earlier statements on any major purchase decisions.

elo

I've noted your post (archived it) and if you're wrong you have to eat a heaping pile of your excriment before year end, that's on top of you looking like a total arse.

 

[areyouwishing]

I have a RevB 12" 1ghz. I love it but I would change a few things...

1. Bus Speed
2. Hard Drive Speed

I am even starting to think that OS X (Panther) is really bloated graphically, I have a 1ghz (133 bus) Pentium 3 Desktop at home and it runs circles around my Laptop in UI speed. I understand that there are performance handicaps when you are running a laptop, but I even get lag some times when Im typing in a form in a browser (safari, IE). This shouldn't happen AT ALL on a laptop, Its not caused by the processor speed, and It's not caused by the bus speed, its not RAM (i have more RAM in my laptop, and its DDR, not that it matters) the only difference between the 2 computers spec wise is that I am running a better video card on the desktop and a faster hard drive. I guess you pay the price to have Quartz Extreme

I don't know, some times i just get frustrated with what apple does with their business, be it software or hardware.

 

[iLilana]

counting chickens

believe it when I see it... aaaand G5 PB's would be a nice addition. It could make them top end best you can buy laptops.

maybe

 

[goof_ball]

I even get lag some times when Im typing in a form in a browser (safari, IE). This shouldn't happen AT ALL on a laptop,

It sound like something is wrong. A RevB 12" 1ghz laptop should not be doing that while running 10.3.

 

[sebaz]

could be the spell checker, i know that my rev. a 12" powerbook cant keep up when im typing at times, it gets worse when you have animated .gif smileys